You don't have to love a text book - few of us do:) You could use a text book for the table of contents, and use chapter titles as a rough guide as you look for books. Sonlight would be a good place to start: http://www.sonlight.com/ You could also look into Ambleside: http://www.amblesideonline.org/ If you have a good grasp of history, or are motivated to learn yourself, I'd just go with living history books from the library and these sites: Penny Gardner http://www.pennygardner.com/subjects.html You could also read from books online at Project Gutenberg, or The Baldwin Project (fabulous). Enjoy reading!

We follow the local 10 month school year, which is rougly August 1 - May 31, and we take off all school holidays and 1/2 days. Why? The kids are miserable not being able to see the neighbor kids every minute of every day... In the summer, I do toss a math fact sheet out now and then, and we do a lot of summer workshops, and camps for fun (erm...also with their friends).

:iagree: Spelling Workout introduces tons and bunches of vocabulary in books G and H. If you are not using this, start your 5th grader in book E, and try to finish book F by next fall. Latin. Latin. Latin. I cannot say enough about Latin. Even if you only do Prima through Latina Chrisiana II and a word root study book that introduces some Greek. Good luck!

:001_smile: You don't need a book! I feel strongly that you will need a visual. We've used a variety of manipulatives: Cuisenaire rods, inch counting cubes that snap together, and LEGOS made into long bars. I do think I now prefer the candy approach... Start out by showing examples from online outlines, showing how an outline looks. Don't start oulining with science or history material - use something simpler, such as a fable or fairy tale before tackling the dryer material.

We used Discovering Great Artists. You could add this for fun: http://www.amazon.com/Discovering-Great-Artists-Hands-Children/dp/0935607099

They are fantastic! We have them all. We read them with SOTW. You can jump in the middle - and by all means do! A small tip: Because there are so many different pictures and boxes, have your child read these BEFORE you read the core text in each chapter. if you are reading this to Grammar stage students, pre-read so you can discuss in depth some of the concepts. This book is better for Logic stage, imo. Don't forget to read living science books and biographies, you can learn even more about the people within. A side note: We DO NOT outline from this book - I want to keep it as is, fun!!!! A final comment: Hakim has an extensive series for your US studies as well. Go with your instinct - get the series!

Classical education in WTM is a marriage of formal bookwork and reading the classics. You can "do" a purer form of classical ed by following the philosophy of Charlotte Mason - and learn by almost exclusively reading. I recommend reading Campbell's book (LCC, mentioned above) after you've read WTM so you can understand the role of Latin, and of reading classics. You may also want to read A Thomas Jefferson Education, and the book Leadership Education (especially the 55 ingredients) by the DeMille's. The TJEd books lay out a philosophy of education and how to incorporate that philosophy into your home. TJEd is not a curriculum, it is a helpful philosophy. TJEd has a different break up of the stages of learning - you will be able to see the hamrony and use both philosophies (TJEd and WTM) in your home. Also look into unschooling - there is much to learn about early childhood learning in this area. Many unschooling ideas may be applied to formal ed as well - knowing attachment parenting and organic learning philosophies will help free you and break up the monotony of WTM. The most important thing to know is the philosophy behind the stages and approximate grades that each stage correlates to as your child grows. The advice on study habits and curriculum recommendations in the book have been beyond exceptional for us. The time to devote to study was not helpful for our life rhythm (we're more organic with our day and yearly schedule). Both of my children tested far above grade levels last year (dd11 and ds8). It is time intensive for the parent during the Grammar stage - and you will become frustrated and burned out at times. The Logic stage brings great rewards in that your child will have a broad base to work with and continue to grow. Below are some thoughts on the WTM stages: Grammar stage: Grades K-4 At this stage, kids are getting the basics down for math, spelling and grammar. The key is to be slow and steady. Reading poetry, short stories, fables, and longer, classic books helps develop vocabulary, and through discussion, character. Family reading and discussion of science and history stories will help your child understand these areas. You do not need a formal science program. Many hs'ers use Susan Wise Bauer's book, Story of the World (vol. 1 - 4). Your child will progress from drawing pictures while you are reading; to narrating the story back to you after it is read; then finally, writing a short paragraph on the reading topic. Hands on science and history activities reinforce concepts found in your reading, and will take you to new places of interest as they unfold in your child. For writing, they should be able to write a three paragraph report with ease by the end of fourth grade. If you are writing short science and history reports and are doing a rigorous grammar program (Rod and Staff), it's my opinion and experience that you do not need a formal writing program. Adding Latin will GREATLY increase vocabulary and grammar skills. Reading about Romans will bring in introductory works in history and political science that can be expanded upon in the next stages. Latin will also help with law and science terms. Logic stage: Grades 5-8 Children should have the basics down by this time. For math this means: multiplication, division, addition, subtraction, simple fractions, and simple geometry. Continue working on manipulating numbers and building geometry skills. Work a lot with interpreting data, building and reading graphs. For grammar, your child should really "know" the eight parts of speech, and be able to identify them in sentences. Consider moving exclusively to Latin for your grammar needs, or continue with a grammar program that has lots of sentence diagramming. You can begin to use a formal science and history program, or continue reading living science/history books about various topics. Begin to read actual documents. Instead of fun play, projects get more involved (timelines, filling out more elaborate results recording sheets for experiments, beginning to connect people with other people and things in each era). Begin a formal writing program - and stick with it. Your child has all the basics - it's now time to have fun experimenting with different writing styles. Concentrate on building life skills (consumer math, cooking, simple repairs, home maintenance) Consider adding a second foreign language. Help your child recognize subject and extracurricular areas that they naturally excel in and work to further develop those areas. Also help them continue to explore new hobbies and interests. Rhetoric stage: Grades 9-12 Continue experimenting with formal writing styles (thesis, law, etc). Keep reinforcing grammar (you may not need a formal program at this stage if you've been writing and working diligently in the past). Combine writing in different styles with deeper study and work in history, art, music, science, math, literature. Continue working on math until you take college tests, after which, proceed with higher math, or read about math through living math books (see Dover classics online for their math and science series). Understand various research and methods for scientific reports. Take an introductory to statistics course, or home study. Moving forward with formal science work in Biology, Astronomy, Chemistry and Physics is ideal. Encourage apprenticeships, work, volunteering, or begin a business based on a passion. Continue to delve deeper into study of this passion.

I'm leaning to agreeing, but have to admit that we did have quite a vocab base built up by the time all the chants were memorized. You really need to have all the chants down and truly understand them. You can then start parsing sentences quite easily (Lingva Latina is a fun book to start with for parsing).

Badge Magic can be purchased at the BSY headquarters, but you can get a similar, equally effective version of it at your local JoAnn's. Just iron it on. Machine washable - but we hang dry so not to remelt the "glue". I haven't had the need to do it, but a little thread tack at the top and bottom wouldn't hurt...

We saw this exhibit last year at the MN Science center. DS7 at the time, thought the laundry exhibit was hilarious (I won't spoil it). The ash body exhibit was done with respect and everyone in our crowd was reverent. If you know Latin, you can actually use it reading some of the exhibit pieces. Go! Enjoy! And don't forget to get the headset.

First of all, :lol: he sounds adorable. Now, :grouphug: He'll be fine with a little encouragement and direction. I'm just going to brainstorm here: hang out with astronomers at your local observatory or planetarium Boy Scouts (or just get a handbook and do the ideas yourselves - there are others buried in the program as the book is being completed too - finding a scoutmaster would be a good thing to get to know) ham radio voluteering starting (or beginning a plan for) a web or home based business (lawn care, garden weeding, electronics hookup, web design, pool cleaning) starting his own charity writing for magazines (pre-teen/teen perspective) blogging or making his own web page on a topic of his choice (Abraham Lincoln, unusual plants, research a cause, etc.) upholstery design look into your local tech school and see if he can start classes, or see if he can find a tech area he is interested in and begin a home study of that area (electrical, car repair, plumbing) enroll in a community ed course learn drafting and CAD restock books at a local library have him teach a preschool or younger students a class (origami, music, fun/age appropriate PE games, etc.) geocaching archery, fencing, skeet shooting ask him to figure out how to install a spark plug, change a tire, change the oil in a car, change a headlight - whenever the opportunity arises think of male honey-do items: cleaning the lint from the dryer exit hose thing; change vent filters; clean gutters; clean the washer filter; change lightbulbs; change fuses/lable the fuse box; wash windows; unclog drains; reprogram timers and equipment (sprinklers, water heater each season); oil squeaky doors; seasonal clean up, etc. make an emergency kit for your home build a bookshelf read practical arts books from the library (sailing, boating, marathons) work on the Presidential fitness award read the drivers ed manual, boating manual, motorcycle manual, etc. early Enjoy any new ventures!

Rod & Staff (3) has a music program that teaches that basics of note reading, and how to draw treble/bass clefs and notes. If you do not have a piano (harp, violin, trumpet, etc.), you can invest in a $20 recorder, and a basic recorder music book and begin playing. Cheers!

I am so incredibly sad for you and your dd! :grouphug: To evangelize is to spread the word out and into to the world through words and actions - not shut yourselves in and away from it. What are you suppose to do now? Go to the park (event, booth, etc.) and watch them "be examples" from the sideline? I think you should lobby them. SoF are fine for leadership to have and to sign to have a word. It is the leadership that will keep the boat afloat through all the waves. Members however, should be allowed to experience a ride one the boat. They don't have to captain it - just go along for the ride. Attrition will naturally happen if the boat is steered too tightly for some. Remember CS Lewis and those rings... and the teachings of Aristotle on friendship. Peace, Aly.

That didn't sound too illogical did it? Anyway, I'm glad you're able to move beyond that comment and laugh!!!I think you will both have fun with this new venture. (we did it...) Enjoy! Reaching now for the bag of M&Ms... and moving onto another thread.

sorry, double post...

Argh. Don't let it eat at you. It's like this with a lot of groups (your not a true or good Christian, Republican, parent if you_____). There are some die hard homeschoolers who will adhere to the notion that if you are in a PS, co-op, online school, vote or take a tax credit from the state (where available), dual enroll, afterschool, take online classes, attend educational seminars outside of the home... Well, if you do any of that, you will never be a homeschooler in their eyes. These same people will also say that school in a box is okay (as long as it is from a particular school with a particular philosophy) and are sometimes the same people they don't blink when they are asked to check in with their distance teacher or take a test through that particular school, or fill out multiple forms to prove they've been homeschooling. These same people do not count unschoolers as homeschoolers. Sometimes the logic just isn't all there... Reaching now, for chocolate...

Gymboree if she can still fit into their sizing; otherwise, Target.

I vote C too. I also vote to let your dc draw pictures as you read. They will have a HB travelogue when they are finished! The rich language, the cadence of your reading, and your persistence to endure to the end will speak [silent] volumes.

:grouphug: Some random thoughts... ~Continue to talk but open up those conversations with your immediate and extended family, friends (even the advice from this board), with your pastor, your OWN therapist, and pray whether you are receiving correct counsel on this one. ~Now, if your child seems to be feeling she'd like to give school a try again, and for those that are ambivalent, it's probably okay to give it a short term "go" until your ppd is under control, or gone. You may want to draw up sort of a contract with yourself, your husband, and family about how long you expect to try out school, and what will be expected. ~There are other alternatives to school that will offer the same socialization opportunities that your DH and his therapist choice seem to believe children need: dual enrollment or involvement in extracurricular activities at your local school; look for modestly priced extracurricular activities in your community and free events around town; formal homeschool co-ops or informal co-op classes; charter schools that are still free, but have more freedom in their curriculum choices; K-12 or Odyssey (whatever is offered through your PS district); or online classes. Don't forget to look for positives - you can afterschool; volunteer at your school in each classroom; teach or tutor other hs'ers one of your talents (piano, art, Latin, etc.); and if you can be a part of your hs group, you can pull your kids out for field trip days (did I just say that? yes, our neighbors that have PS kids sometimes come with us!). Wishing you much peace - your going to have a few more rocky days yet to come as you transition your health, identity as a mom, and family schedules if you enter school.

I need a good ten years between an oblivions of others and being able to laugh about enough that they "might" make my day. I get more cranky than not over these. Now if it is one of my OWN oblivions, or duh! moments, I can laugh it up and off immediately. *********** May you (well, any of us for that matter!) never be stuck behind an oblivious driver again!

:lol: We use ours for writing... ...as in how to outline (this can be done with LEGOS, but Cuisenaire rods are already "pre-measured"). Seriously, there are some good Cuisenaire books that help teach math. Our books are currently shelved... but can be brought out for "math fun". If I were you, I'd start with one or two of these books from a teaching store to see if you and your lil' ones can get the hang of teaching math with this manipulative. Good luck!

Oh gosh, the suggested times drove me nuts too when I added up the times on the "quick" end and the "long" ends (sometimes a 2.5 hour difference if I remember correctly). After trying to follow them, I gave up in favor of other scheduling philosophies. We still are die hard WTM'ers, and follow the curriculum, study habits (timelines, outlining, etc.), and reading recommendations almost as exactly set forth. We just don't follow the times. If you adopt the thought of "just moving forward" (see also, the posts here on looping) in each book, you will find that your child will be able to move rapidly through some sources, and sloooowly through others. In the end however, if you are moving forward at a steady pace, you will begin to see how everything begins to gel together. How does it gel? If you begin to see a series of "subject" strengths emerge such as reading, spelling and grammar (visual) - or math problems, science experiments, and geography map reading (hands on) - you will be able to adjust your mentoring style to cater to those needs. You can learn math by reading about math. If your child loves workbooks, all their work can be done on Q&A sheets. If they are a writer, have them write about geography maps. Whenever possible, capitalize on their strengths. You will still need to help them through some rough areas (sitting with them while they do math, diagramming sentences together until the concept is learned, practice Latin parsing together, etc.), but you won't have to be opening your TM and teaching them every hour on the hour. I hope you kwim... It does takes time and patience to see this to fully emerge. When you "see" it (around 3rd - 5th grades), you can "grow" it with your curriculum and reading selections. Through it all, remember to talk, talk, talk about their findings rather than make it drudgery by "teaching" (use plenty of who, what, why, where, when, how questions that bring about conversations, not just rote Q&A). I hope you find something that works or is a happy medium!

If I were to do it all over again, I'd parallel the progymnasmata (and eventually writing/grammar/spelling) with your scripture study. Each year you can "up" the work load... You could start out with simple copywork/narratives, then dictation dictation/short summaries, etc., until your child is working up to using the Bible alongside other texts (texts that support or refute) to write persuasion articles. Early on you would focus on this order each year in the Grammar stage: Fables (which would be simple stories - the big stories with a teaching) Narrative (think who, what, why, where, when, how) Chreria (simple one line proverbs) Proverb (longer, story proverbs) These years are you would also bring in cultural stories (Sargon, Gilgamesh, Hammurabi, Greek/Egyptian/Roman/Norse/Indian myths, etc.) and introduce your child to stories about influential religious people (Mohammed, Buddha, Martin Luther, Calvin, Popes, etc.), and political figures that defended forms of Christianity (Tsar Nicolas I, Justinian, Queens Elizabeth and Mary, etc.) and other religions. Having a familiarity with many figures from a broad background, will GREATLY help your child later when they begin to work with and between actual documents alongside your Biblical text. ************** In the Logic stage, I am currently focusing on these areas with our scriptures, as well as continuing to build on other secular and world teachings and documents (especially those first learned of in the Grammar stage): Refutation Confirmation Commonplace Encomium Vituperation ************** This would be Rhetoric (at least in my mind): Comparison Impersonation Description Thesis Law

Schlessinger videos - you can get them at, or through your library. I would venture to say that they are the most commonly known among homeschoolers (but I'm just venturing...). For American History, David Barton's series gets rave reviews. You can piece together various PBS documentaries as well.

We combined SOTW3 and Sonlight 3 for my dd. I chose Sonlight to beef up our American history studies (ordered everything). It was hard work to keep up with the books and everything in the TM - but we did it (and TOG has MORE!!!). Now, after having btdt with the first child, I plan to just enjoy reading the books with my next child, and having our own spontaneous discussions, without the TM.