Deciding what is fair.

[medawyn]

I'm in a similar position to OP.  I have three young kids (19 months - 4.5) and I'm 33 weeks pregnant.  DH doesn't work shifts, but he does travel a lot and often works unpredictable hours (his primary clients are in Asia).  I've just decided it isn't fair.

 

He's never going to be pregnant.

 

He's never going to nurse.

 

He's never going to be a morning person/middle of the night childcare person.

 

He's never going to be "cured" from ADHD. (This is his parents/siblings talking.  They pretty much assume with DH and my niece that a diagnosis and pills will make ADHD go away.  Ha.)

 

He's never going to see our house, the kids, and my time the way I do.

 

So, nope, it's not going to be fair.

 

I'm working really hard at determining what *I* need to get through my days, and that includes figuring out what I can realistically ask of him.  I can't turn him into a morning person, and my kids are up before 5:30 every day.  Unless there is an emergency, mornings are 100% on me.  FOR ME, the solution has been to give DH a time I need him out of the house (because I go a little crazy with him slumping around not helping during my most energetic part of the day).  If he can get himself vertical, dressed, and awake enough to drive, he can have his hour of "me time" somewhere else.  I can't change that he needs it, but nor can I change the fact that it drives me absolutely bonkers to have him in the house basically doing nothing and ignoring the kids.  So this is our current compromise.

 

Conversely, I'm sure it drives DH nuts that I am basically incapable of doing much more than sitting and staring at a wall by 7:00 pm.  I've always been a morning person, but five years of back-to-back pregnancies, nursing day and night, and interrupted night sleep has pretty much made me a zombie in the evening.  This is his prime time for interaction and creativity.  I try my damnedest to carve out 30 minutes of time for him as soon as the kids are asleep, where I can just pay attention to him/us.  Thirty minutes isn't ideal, but it's all I've got right now.  When the pregnancy/nursing/toddler days are behind us, I'm hoping I have a little more energy in the evenings.  

 

In his perfect world, DH would come home to a quiet and perfectly clean house and have 30-60 minutes to decompress from work.  Ha.  Ain't going to happen.  In my perfect world, DH would use his evening energy time to spend quality time with the kids, do a final kitchen clean up and do some around the house help.  He doesn't.  We've talked about it.  I've requested.  I've fussed. I've nagged.  It never lasts more than a night or two.  So I came up with my non-negotiable.  When he gets home - as soon as he gets home - he's on bath and bedtime duty with me.  Yes, he would really like time to decompress and relax after work.  Too bad.  I would like a break from the kids, too.  We both get a break from the kids once they are in bed.  But fair or not, I've let the house stuff go.

 

For the housework, I actually read the author a PP wrote about, Laura Vanderkam.  For a week, I kept a detailed accounting of where my time went.  It was eye opening.  I streamlined some things, changed my expectations for some things, and showed it to DH.  We worked the budget around, and I got a housekeeper once a week.  When I/we prioritized what was important and the standards we wanted for those items, it became clear that I couldn't keep up with it all.  Housekeeping was one of the easiest to delegate.  I know that's not possible for everyone, and I know DH thought it was silly at first that I was home all day and still needed help with house work, and maybe others do, too, but this is what works for us and helps save my sanity.  It also helps that no matter how often DH said he would help with the housework, he never actually did.  Shockingly, that wasn't the way he wanted to spend his time outside of work.  When I pointed that discrepancy out to him, he admitted that there was a problem.

 

It sounds like homeschooling is a big one for the OP.  We don't do much around here (see kids' ages), but the burden of this is going to fall 100% on me.  DH has agreed to opt in to homeschooling for our family, but I'm the one who advocated for it.  Plus, I'm the one home.  Therefore, it makes sense that most of it falls on my shoulders.  If I can't make it work with the kids, that's on me, and I figure I'll have to come up with a different solution.  Or come ask the Hive to help me find one  :lol: But realistically, if I can't hack it more or less by myself - or if DH was the one pushing it and then not helping at all - we'd have to find a different educational option.

 

It sounds like homemaking and childcare isn't a full time job for everyone on this thread, but it is for me.  It's a major time and energy suck, and I don't have a lot of "me" left to go around.  But neither does DH, who is in prime career building time AND is coming home to a family he loves fiercely but at ages that really baffle or challenge him.  There is no "fair" with a pregnant wife and a bunch of little kids.  Many days I feel like all the burdens of the family are falling on me.  Realistically, he probably does, too.  Neither one of us is right or wrong, so I'm desperately trying to carve out the things that are essential for me to ask from him and to realize that building resentment about all the things he doesn't do only damages our long term relationship.  (And frankly, I'm sure he could come up with a whole list of things I don't do and feel the same way.  I really hope he doesn't!)  

[Melissa in Australia]

If I was you I would get DH to feed the kids lunch while I had a lie down. I found with all my pregnancies that I coped better with life and all the busyness if I had a lie down in the day for 30 minutes or so. The further along in the pregnancy the more I needed this.

 

 

 

 

Life isn't fair and it is impossible to try to make it fair , just gets all parties upset.

 

 

[Mimm]

Mine are neither calm nor compliant nor neat.  They are fairly self-reliant - the first wasn't, and I spent more time taking care of her individually than I ever did with 2+ at a time, just because she had to have someone to build the lego duplo castle with, and I was the only option.  

 

They're loud, but I ignore the loud.  They don't do much of what I tell them if I get on a telling them what to do all the time kick, but if I restrict it to just a few serious instructions when necessary they are pretty reasonable.  They are the uncleanest children you have ever met, but I don't own (after much experimentation with what I can safely own) makeup, paint, markers, glue, glitter, any toy with little pieces including board games, or a zillion other things that make a difficult-to-clean mess, including carpet in the main living areas.  If a 6 year old cannot clean up the mess made with an item, I either don't own it or it is in the tallest shelf behind something boring.  They spend 95% of the day covered in frozen blueberry stains with their boots and balls and sticks strewn about the floor.  (I would get rid of the blueberries but DH finds them non-negotiable).  

 

I think the self-reliance is probably a huge part of it, that is my guess.  They have all been blessedly potty trained at 2 with no trouble and can feed themselves from the fridge by 4; I cook once a day and it is never something complicated.  I do spend a lot of the day (interspersed now with the business) getting someone too short for the sink a drink of water or telling someone's sister not to irritate him on purpose or examining a finished masterpiece of some sort or listening to a Moana recital (ugh), but those things take 5 minutes each and don't feel like work, because I can do them while sitting at the computer eating an apple.

 

 

Another example (not entirely fair because I have olders now so it is different than with just little kids): I stayed up super late last night getting orders out.  Like, super late.  Taking the mail to the post office at dawn late.  So I woke up DD this morning and told her I was sleeping in.  When I woke up a couple of hours after them they'd fed themselves leftover chili, bread, butter, and bananas for breakfast (not what I would have chosen but who am I to complain?) and were making a mess of a wooden castle and puzzle that came in the mail last week from Grandma.  If I'd been awake, they would have fed themselves chili, bread, butter, and bananas and made a mess of the puzzle - the difference would have been that I'd have had to ooh and aah occasionally at the puzzle accomplishment and say "stop irritating your brother" 5 or 10 times and sang the toddler Little Bunny Foo-Foo, his current preference.  I would have spent 100 out of the 120 minutes doing my own thing (as I am doing now while they play some game downstairs that sounds like it involves racing and occasional recrimination).  

 

When they were all little, I did have to always wake up with them, but other than that our days proceded more or less the same.

 

What do you all do for the first two hours of the day?  What is your time taken up with?

 

I am finding these posts very interesting. You have chosen to structure your life in such a way that it is easy to keep up with. I have a family of artists, and am naturally not a good housekeeper. My house is cluttered with art supplies. Glitter and paint and markers are non negotiables around here. But this is a reminder that these are my choices. My current toddler is actually really good about asking permission before she gets into stuff.

 

My cooking sounds more complicated than yours, which is another choice I make. But I also only cook one meal a day. Tonight it's stir fry which isn't hard but does involve chopping veggies and cooking different things in stages, etc. I have a four year old who isn't self sufficient enough to get her own food. She makes a majority of the messes around here, and unfortunately, we allow her to get away with this too much and make her help too little. I am always running my kids to their various activities, and we also do have more doctors appointments than you. We have lots of toys with little pieces, etc. Things that would be banned from your house. :) She also demands a ton of my time.

 

It's not exactly difficult to sit down and play with her, read to her, clean up after her, get her a sandwich for lunch, an apple for a snack. But I find it wearing and at the end of the day, I'm very ready for a break. Even worse when my teens were little and bickered constantly. I found it absolutely exhausting to be around. And this, I suspect, is the biggest difference between mothers. Some people find housework and mother easier and less exhausting, and some of us are more exhausted by it. We may enjoy it, and work very hard to take care of our kids, but we just find it exhausting.

 

One mom in my life has three kids and can barely manage on her own. Well, she can't manage without lots of help from her very involved husband and occasional help from her inlaws. Her kids are more demanding and her house is cleaner than mine, but I'm not entirely sure what it is that is so difficult, but it doesn't really matter. It's difficult to her, so she should have the help she needs. Fortunately, she seems to get what helps she needs. :)

[SJ.]

I forgot to say: when you don't have a dishwasher, paper plates are your friends.

Edited December 10, 2017 by SJ.

[Ausmumof3]

While my home isn't as simplified as eternal summer, I will say that if I fully clean, homeschool ALL the things, and cook, I'm still looking at less than 5 hours max. We have 2 baths and they get spritzed and wiped down everyday, mopped once a week, beds are made daily, laundry done daily, vacuum everything but the bedrooms daily, and dust once a week. And due to food allergies, I do have to cook most of our stuff from scratch which is where the majority of my time is spent with homeschooling 3 kids next. I followed flylady for a long time and the house is a breeze to clean cause I decided what was worth dusting (which amounts to a handful of items) and figured out everything must have a place or things get tossed. Hubby is dying to get a griddle and I'm like find a place for it because the counter is not acceptable and there isn't any cabinet space. When you find a spot, get one.

 

Now there were times when I was overwhelmed and had way too much to due and said SCREW THAT! Then we focused on the important stuff. To my hubby, he likes the house picked up and perfect when he comes home and to smell good. Okay.... I get that. So we do a pick up before he comes home. and we do one around lunch. Everything has a place and everything in its place and if you don't want to take care of your stuff, then pick it up and put in the trash....I don't care what you do with it but pick it up is your only option. Sometimes, the kids say SCREW THAT and decide the toy/game/thing is not worth the time it takes to pick it up and they haul it to the trash. Most times, they put it away. But, everything has a place so it makes it really easy and no one kid has enough stuff to make it hard for even a 4 year old to put everything back. (they may choose not to but that is a different story).

 

It is important to me that the bathrooms be clean and good food on the table.

 

The rest of it, I agree with Eternal summer.....whatever they come out dressed in is good enough unless it involves a societal expectation that requires special dress arrangements (black tie, weddings, special events etc) They get their own food for breakfast and lunch unless I'm feeling super pumped at cooking another meal. The makings of those meals are prepped though when I buy groceries. I no longer give a rat's pootie about well dressed, perfect, matching, ironed etc. They are clean, hygiene completed and done. IF they want to look better, I show them how. I make sure I look good and they tend to follow. If they could care less, well for the most part, I let the natural consequences of weird looks and comments from others clue them into maybe they should have tried a little more this morning. (side eye at the teen son who likes the "I rolled out my cardboard box bed under a bridge" including scruffy beard face look. He even uses a soap called dirty hippie :svengo: )

 

And I don't take care of my husband. He's a grown ass man and I am doing the majority of the parenting trying to raise some people to become grown ass adults. Thus, he can figure out how to make his own lunch, his own dinner even if he doesn't like the meal. Over the years of multiple bed rests during my pregnancies, he discovered he would rather clean the tub and do the laundry ( our clothing, he only in the last couple of years figured out towels and sheets are washed too LOL!). So he does those two chores, each kid does their own laundry and bedding, and I make sure everyone knows how to take care of all their stuff and keep it running. He's grateful the house is typically clean and food in the pantry and a meal on the table, the bills paid and that the kids can and will help with household chores. I'm delighted I don't have to clean the freaking tub or put our laundry away. Win-Win!!!!

Yes but this thread is about a situation where the husband doesn't do anything and the kids are too young. Yep if all the laundry was handled and the bathrooms cleaned my workload for sure would be a lot lighter.

 

I now have my kids putting away their laundry and that made a huge difference.

 

It sounds like for those who are finding the load easier they are getting a lot more partner Input. That's great but isn't the situation being discussed. The situation is how Little of that there is.

 

Yesterday we had guests in the evening after church. DH delayed us chatting to friends so he helped with the clean up. With all of us - my DH and kids working - it was done so quickly and felt easy. This is a long long way from my experience a few years ago when he was working 70hrs commuting 10 and I was handling everything else. I think that's more similar to the ops situation.

[medawyn]

Yes but this thread is about a situation where the husband doesn't do anything and the kids are too young. Yep if all the laundry was handled and the bathrooms cleaned my workload for sure would be a lot lighter.

 

I now have my kids putting away their laundry and that made a huge difference.

 

It sounds like for those who are finding the load easier they are getting a lot more partner Input. That's great but isn't the situation being discussed. The situation is how Little of that there is.

 

Yesterday we had guests in the evening after church. DH delayed us chatting to friends so he helped with the clean up. With all of us - my DH and kids working - it was done so quickly and felt easy. This is a long long way from my experience a few years ago when he was working 70hrs commuting 10 and I was handling everything else. I think that's more similar to the ops situation.

 

Yup.  If I have DH's (willing) help, things flow so much better.  I just don't usually have it, either because of absence or of willful neglect/ignorance.  And I don't have help from the kids at all, yet.  Sure I'm working on chore training, but my oldest isn't even 5.  We're solidly in the training phase, not so much in the independently helpful phase.  And the 19 month old can undo things faster than I can keep up.

 

I have this (completely unrealistic) vision of my life in about 5 years, when the kids are big enough to pour their own milk and reach the knobs on the washer/dryer.  I can just sit on the sofa all day eating bonbons watching my house function around me, like all the other homeschooling moms.  Until then, I need help.  In our case, we outsource cleaning the house.  Then I'm just left with the kitchen 3+ times a day, the laundry, the potty-training bathroom, and the constant picking up.

[StephanieZ]

My school does last less than 2 hours, but drags out longer due to all the distractions from dd.

 

Perhaps you can cut back to 1 hour of schooling and try to squeeze it in while the distracting one is busy with SOMETHING. Perhaps you could stuff distracting dd into bed with dad in the morning and turn on a video for her? Or do lessons while she naps?  

 

For a long time, while I had "littles", I would do certain subjects (especially teaching to read, as that really required my 100% attention) when the littler ones were napping. Sometimes I'd even squeeze in teaching reading or violin while the littles were already in bed. A famous and oft-repeated phrase was, "Would you like to practice violin now, or go ahead to bed?" Not surprisingly, the child would generally chose to practice and stay up a bit later. Same idea works for naps. 

 

You might also consider curriculum choices that are more flexible for you to use despite distractions. For instance, I used both Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons and Explode the Code with my kids. 100EZL REQUIRED 100% mom attention, undivided and uninterrupted, for about 20 minutes. I generally only taught that during the baby's nap or when Daddy was home. On the other hand, ETC could easily be taught with kid-at-table and mom-jiggling-baby-on-hip. There are numerous choices in curricula like this . . . 

[KungFuPanda]

This might also be a good phase of life to establish a midday rest time. Naps for the littlest ones. Quiet play for those who have outgrown naps. Direct instruction for younger elementary kids. Free reading for independent readers.

[2squared]

Yeah, I get this I'm not stupid. I never said he would be sitting on his ass aftet retirement. He will just be more free to have a job that is more enjoyable without the pressure to provide as big an income. We have rental properties for additional income. Most people that retire there end up working security or something. Guys this is not what we are discussing. We are deciding whether or not I should expect my dh to devote 1-2 hours to his wife and kids on work days or not, not his retirement or if he needs a new job or not.

Who is handling the added work of the rental properties - you or him?