This doesn't seem right ......

[Home'scool]

I have been looking into getting a new job. While doing a search on the internet I found a posting for a job that I might be suited for at a local college. They describe themselves as a

"Traditional Christian liberal arts college". They are not a state school.

 

For the job, I was to submit a cover letter, application, and statement of faith. I have never seen that before!

 

They also say this:

"We seek qualified persons to join a multi-cultural community to fill faculty and staff positions. ENC encourages women and minorities to apply. Applicants should be committed Christians and active in a local church. Preference in hiring is given to those with Wesleyan convictions and background, though qualified applicants from other Christian traditions will be considered as well."

 

The position was a staff position, not a faculty position. Is that legal to do? I thought that you could not discriminate for religion. If I am not active in a local church should I not even apply?

[J-rap]

I know many schools require this of their students, so I don't know why they wouldn't require it of their faculty and other staff positions as well.  It is within the law to do that, and you of course have the freedom to not apply there. 

 

I would guess, however, that they would still consider you as an applicant even if you weren't active with a church, as long as your core beliefs were similar to the school's.

[bettyandbob]

I bet there's not an issue if they don't accept federal money.

[TechWife]

Yes, it is entirely legal for private, not-for-profit faith based organizations, schools and universities to require their employees to share their faith. If you aren't active in a local church, it seems to me that you don't meet their qualifications. However, I'd probably apply anyway. For my statement of faith, I'd refer them to the statement of faith of my denomination and say that I am in agreement with it. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yep and I have seen that.

 

 

[Guest]

Totally legal, very normal. It is a protected hiring practice for the time being, provided the job isn't state or federal.

[Guest]

And I agree, just refer to a statement of faith you agree with, whether you're active in church or not.

[AimeeM]

I would assume schools CAN discriminate based on religion. After all, most Catholic schools (all of them here, actually) require teachers be practicing, active Catholics. 

[Farrar]

Someone who worked in a religious institution but wasn't that faith once told me that when the position is unrelated to the direct religious work and the institution is large enough, then they can't require things like that. But that may be different in different states? Or it may be that the position is considered directly related or the institution is small enough? Or, I could have totally misunderstood or it could have been an individual policy for that institution...

[Tsuga]

That is very common. If they are a private organization they can do that. Many Christian NGOs, including World Vision to name just one that I have never considered working for*, do that. You can't work there unless you are a Christian even if you want to be the accountant. They are one of the largest private NGOs in the world.

 

You also have to like clothes and dress well, or pretend to like clothes, if you want to work at the Gap.

 

Now, why said colleges and churches get a tax break for taking the trouble of telling us what to believe is an entirely different question. But private organizations may absolutely hire whom they choose and if they say being a Christian is essential to the job, then it's essential to the job.

 

*Because I can't sign the statement of faith, and couldn't even when I was a Christian as I was a Sabellian heretic.

[Home'scool]

Huh. I thought employment couldn't discriminate based on religion. I guess the fact that they are private gets them around that.

 

I wonder what would happen if someone went to work there and then converted to Judaism, or became an atheist. Could they fire you?

 

 

[bettyandbob]

I would assume schools CAN discriminate based on religion. After all, most Catholic schools (all of them here, actually) require teachers be practicing, active Catholics. 

 

In my area, they do hire nonCatholics, but you must have a statement signed from your religious leader that you are active in your religious community. 

[Guest]

Huh. I thought employment couldn't discriminate based on religion. I guess the fact that they are private gets them around that.

 

I wonder what would happen if someone went to work there and then converted to Judaism, or became an atheist. Could they fire you?

Probably, but they probably wouldn't if you kept your deconversion on the down-low. When it is private, yes, they can make such rules.

[Harriet Vane]

My understanding based on past court decisions is that it is reasonable for a group to protect the philosophy, dogma, traditions, and unique character of that institution. 

[TechWife]

 

I wonder what would happen if someone went to work there and then converted to Judaism, or became an atheist. Could they fire you?

 

Yes, they can. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Huh. I thought employment couldn't discriminate based on religion. I guess the fact that they are private gets them around that.

 

I wonder what would happen if someone went to work there and then converted to Judaism, or became an atheist. Could they fire you?

It is a bit more complicated than the schools simply being private. Typically the college/university must apply for an exemption from the 1964 Civil Rights Act by demonstrating their "purpose and character" are primarily religious.

 

If the institution has an exemption, then yes they would be able to fire someone for converting to another belief or for no longer meeting the statement of faith.

[poppy]

This thread is eye opening. Yikes.

 

I don't think it's universal. I just hired a music director for my church.  The music director is required to lead the choir and work with the minister to select songs for the worship service- so, very involved  in the nitty gritty of church life.  But everyone we looked at had experience at multiple churches, with multiple faiths. Most musicians cobble together a living that way. It's so odd to me that crossing church faiths is common in that role, but there are religious requirements for a regular staff role.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

My understanding based on past court decisions is that it is reasonable for a group to protect the philosophy, dogma, traditions, and unique character of that institution.

Correct, although to be more precise the court cases on this issue post-1964 have been used to interpret the section of the Civil Rights Act providing exceptions for religious institutions.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

This thread is eye opening. Yikes.

 

I don't think it's universal. I just hired a music director for my church. The music director is required to lead the choir and work with the minister to select songs for the worship service- so, very involved in the nitty gritty of church life. But everyone we looked at had experience at multiple churches, with multiple faiths. Most musicians cobble together a living that way. It's so odd to me that crossing church faiths is common in that role, but there are religious requirements for a regular staff role.

The law is federal, but how it is applied by institutions is not universal. I do expect some legal issues over the next few years as institutions with nominal religious ties who have frequently made exceptions when hiring faculty/staff and recruiting students want to suddenly enforce certain beliefs about sane sex marriage. One an institution starts making frequent exceptions they may find it harder to enforce other policies/doctrines in the future. This why many serious religious institutions won't make any compromises in stared policies.

[Guest]

poppy, on 29 Jul 2015 - 5:04 PM, said:

This thread is eye opening. Yikes.

 

I don't think it's universal. I just hired a music director for my church. The music director is required to lead the choir and work with the minister to select songs for the worship service- so, very involved in the nitty gritty of church life. But everyone we looked at had experience at multiple churches, with multiple faiths. Most musicians cobble together a living that way. It's so odd to me that crossing church faiths is common in that role, but there are religious requirements for a regular staff role.

The law is federal, but how it is applied by institutions is not universal. I do expect some legal issues over the next few years as institutions with nominal religious ties who have frequently made exceptions when hiring faculty/staff and recruiting students want to suddenly enforce certain beliefs about sane sex marriage. One an institution starts making frequent exceptions they may find it harder to enforce other policies/doctrines in the future. This why many serious religious institutions won't make any compromises in stared policies.

Well that's a hell of a typo. ;)

[Tsuga]

This thread is eye opening. Yikes.

 

I don't think it's universal. I just hired a music director for my church.  The music director is required to lead the choir and work with the minister to select songs for the worship service- so, very involved  in the nitty gritty of church life.  But everyone we looked at had experience at multiple churches, with multiple faiths. Most musicians cobble together a living that way. It's so odd to me that crossing church faiths is common in that role, but there are religious requirements for a regular staff role.

 

Not every institution does it. The religious Jesuit college up the road has all kinds of different people from all faiths working there.

 

But they can all do it as religious institutions if they want to and apply as a religious institution.

 

 

 

I do expect some legal issues over the next few years as institutions with nominal religious ties who have frequently made exceptions when hiring faculty/staff and recruiting students want to suddenly enforce certain beliefs about sane sex marriage.

 

I kind of feel like the partnership I have with my SO is a sane sex marriage. Sex and sanity, no paperwork required.

[Julie Smith]

In Ontario it is currently legal for the government to only hire employees who at the very least have a baptismal certification to work at the catholic publicly funded schools. 

 

http://lawofwork.ca/?p=1909

 

Yes. We have a government run and funded catholic school board.