How is this child ever going to graduate?

[stm4him]

My oldest daughter is 13 years old (7th grade).  She has always struggled.  When we can afford it, we have had in her some kind of tutoring or other special needs help.  She has some health issues (loses nutrients when she urinates and has abnormally low cholesterol) so I know there are physical issues but she has been getting better with supplements she is on so that is less of an excuse now than it used to be.  She also struggled with some depression for awhile because of moving away from family and friends and a state she loved and then her brother getting cancer but since we moved out to the country in December she says she feels 90% better.  She does help around the house a lot and is an excellent cook.  She has just recently began to read more on her own for longer periods of time.

 

But lets talk academics.  She was doing Saxon 6/5 last semester but I was not doing a good job of checking it and she is horrible at checking her own work so she went on making lots of mistakes.  I decided to change to Christian Light and we did some remedial math workbooks and she was doing ok with those.  By the fourth grade level worksheets she was struggling.  So I put her into the third grade program and we did the first workbook which is mainly review of second grade.  She did pretty well but she still made some mistakes here and there that she shouldn't have.  She still does not have her math facts mastered after years and years of working on them.  I decided she needed something that would grade her math for her so that it was never a problem of waiting for me to check and she placed into 5th grade in Monarch.  Then one day this week when Monarch wasn't working (internet issues) I gave her a Saxon placement test and she placed into 5/4.  She is not driven to work on her schoolwork even though I pared Monarch down to just math and language arts.  She doesn't like Monarch but doesn't really want to go back to Saxon because of the long lessons although she has admitted before that she was finally enjoying studying math with Saxon.  I think part of the reason was she was struggling so much with Saxon 3 that we never really finished up the end of the book and then I put her in 5/4 and the same thing happened and then I put her in 6/5.  It is just so hard to have to have her redo half of a lesson every day because she makes so many mistakes.  A lot of it is just plain lack of attention to detail (which we see everywhere in her life.)  

 

I found a program that she can enter in her answers and it will tell her immediately if she is right or wrong and I think that will be better for her because then she can come get me.  It is for Saxon.  I think at this point that she should test her way through 5/4 (because maybe she is at the end of 5/4 actually) and then move her on to 6/5.  But my thought is how is she going to finish 5/4, 6/5, 7/6, 8/7, Alg 1/2, Alg 1, Alg 2, and a Geometry course in a reasonable amount of time?  She is supposed to be halfway through 7th grade and she is testing into a fourth grade book!  What do you do with a child who is consistently 2 grade levels behind?  I don't mind a late graduation but she will have to do two books a year I think or at least 1 1/2.  And somehow she will have to get credits in other subjects too.

 

So that being said, my honest question is what do you do with a child like this in terms of their future.  What options are there?  How do they get into community college?  Or do they just study and get a GED?  And if they get a GED what does that mean for their future?  We are in North Carolina and I don't know what their stance on GED's are or how to even find out (in terms of whether it is frowned upon by employers).  I'm not saying she can't get into college because I firmly believe that if she put her mind to it she could, but I am just wondering how to get her to even graduate high school with the credits she is supposed to have or what a GED would mean for her life since I was always on the college track with honors and she is my oldest so all the high school requirement stuff is new to me.  

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. My husband is so fed up that he has said she either needs to quit choir (her love) so she will take studying seriously or we need to put her in school so I can focus more on the other children's education.  I strongly don't want to do either but I don't know how to show her what she has to accomplish in the next few years because I don't know myself what the options are.  GED was never an option in my home growing up and community college was frowned upon.  We are not pushy about college at all, but we do want a child prepared to do whatever it is God calls them to do.  

 

Also, please understand that I am not discounting all of her amazing qualities or her ability to succeed in life.  But from a purely practical standpoint I am ignorant as to how to guide her in future options and don't know what to tell her and I want her to have a realistic picture in her head.  

[Crimson Wife]

A number of community colleges are now offering a math sequence called "Statway" as an alternative for humanities and social science majors. Statway combines remedial math (pre-algebra, beginning algebra, and intermediate algebra) with statistics to satisfy general ed requirements. Students who complete Statway at the CC's also satisfy the transfer requirements for the Cal State system (the more-selective UC schools require an additional, more rigorous course before transferring) for students who want to complete a bachelor's.

 

So as long as she completes whatever your state's graduation requirements are (typically up through geometry, sometimes algebra 2) by 12th, she could go to CC and then take Statway.

 

American School general ed diploma is supposed to be one of the easiest programs for kids who are struggling. You could always swap out some of the courses for college prep ones if she has areas of strength: https://www.americanschoolofcorr.com/generalhighschool

[Lilaclady]

Don't have any advice but just want to offer :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[texasmama]

I would not have her quit choir. She needs an activity that is positive for her.

 

With my SN kid, when I was responsible for his math education, he worked at elbow with me. He did one problem, I checked it, and he moved on if it was correct. He is now outsourced in an online class, but for years that is what I did. He is now 14. This sounds like what your dd needs.

[stm4him]

Is it possible for her to get a GED and then go to a local community college and then into college or a career from there?  I guess this would only work if she can pass the test, of course, but assuming she can would that work?

 

She can start taking the GED at 16 so if she started studying in high school she could probably pass it.  I'm just worried there won't be enough time to get all the credits she needs but there may be time for her to study specifically for a test and pass it.  I don't know what level math a GED test is equivalent to, though.

[OneStepAtATime]

Great ideas upthread.  If you wanted to look at the big picture and she was willing to wait, then maybe taking a bit slower path might also work, though.  There is no law that says someone has to graduate at 18 or take 4 years for High School or whatever...

 

And hugs to you, Mom.  I know this is frustrating and challenging, especially when you have other children who need you.

 

I would like to ask if she has had any academic evaluations?  Her struggles to remember steps may not be completely under her control.  She may have Executive Function issues, low working memory, or a whole host of other issues that cause disconnects in remembering when to do something, why you do something, etc.  And memorizing math facts can be a HUGE struggle.  I still don't have all of mine memorized.  :)

 

FWIW, I have a 14 year old who is technically in 8th grade this year.  She is in 3rd grade level math.  I anticipate she will be done with CLE 300 in a few weeks.  We will move straight into CLE 400 and just keep moving forward at whatever pace she can successfully make.  But I have to sit near her and grade everything the same day, and actually I try to catch mistakes before or as she is making them so we can work on whatever the issue is before those mistakes become ingrained.  She has to have immediate feedback to make true progress.  And I give her a LOT of positive feedback.  We focus on what she did right far more than what she struggled with, so her spirits stay up and she tries hard to get that positive feedback.

 

Just to give you some background, we started homeschooling when she was in 6th grade.  She had been in a brick and mortar school for 7 years with little progress in math.  They just kept passing her.  She was completely confused on so many things but could still limp along passing tests.  It didn't mean she actually knew what she was doing.  After getting great advice on these boards, I decided  to start her over at the very basic building blocks of math to even get her moving successfully forward.  Once we had worked on those for a while, I started her on CLE in the Fall.  I gave her the placement test, moved her into CLE 200 and we have been moving forward from there.  She has now made it nearly through CLE 300.  

 

I actually started over with basic subitization skills in 7th grade because I realized that just hopping curriculum was mucking things up even more and was not actually addressing the core issues.  Once we started over, things started to click that just hadn't before.  Concepts are making sense now, computational skills are solidifying, etc.  

 

Does she have all of her math facts memorized yet, though?  No.  We work on math facts every single day, and we do it together.  The CLE review with targeted drill, flash cards, skip counting, etc. has been a HUGE help, though.  She is making progress, really solid progress, and a lot more math facts are becoming automatic.  It has been a long road for both of us but a much happier one since we started over.  

 

DD cannot help her math struggles.  She just can't.  She is doing the best she can.  I didn't always recognize just how much effort she was putting in because the end result wasn't much to look at.  After evals and a lot of work one on one, I finally realized she really is doing the best she can.  I had to step up my own game, be consistent, be very structured, provide a TON of support and daily positive feedback, etc. 

 

It has paid off.  Is she way behind?  Yes.  But now she is actually making significant progress forward and doing so successfully, not just limping along.   I am hopeful that she will be in Algebra I by mid-10th grade.  She has agreed to work through every summer plus some weekends.   We will just keep moving forward at whatever pace she can successfully make.  At least now, though, she is happy most of the time and feels good about math.  

 

With regards to her choir, whatever else you do, please, please don't take away something your DD loves.  Do some solid research, seek evaluations, find some answers, do whatever it takes to help her, but don't take away something that matters.  That may be the only thing keeping her feeling good about herself.   If she graduates late, then so be it.  It will be o.k.  She can still graduate with a degree.  Just because the public school system had to set an arbitrarily assigned time line for graduation doesn't mean you, as a homeschooler, need to follow it.  

 

What are the requirements for your state? What if your DD delayed starting 9th grade by a year?  And worked through the summers?  That would give you quite a bit more time to help her get through everything.

 

Again, though, have you had her evaluated academically?  Like with a neuropychologist or edupsych?  If there are underlying undiagnosed learning issues that need addressing all this may be a moot point until you get solid answers that direction...

 

Hugs and best wishes...

[MyLittleBears]

Have you done placement tests for the programs you've used? If you want to go back to Saxon (or any of the programs for that matter)  do the placement test. It would be better to go back and start from the ground up to give her a firm foundation.  I know it's hard but try to look at goals  from year to year or semester to semester rather than years down the road.She has time NOW to work on that foundation, even if it is in baby steps. Perhaps MUS would be a good fit?

That said, has she had an evaluation?  My ds struggled with academics for a LONG time. Actually, your dc sounds similar to mine. He took forever to complete things. I pleaded with him to do things in a timely manner. I bribed, I coaxed, I threatened to take away things he loved, etc. Nothing worked. It turns outs that he had impaired working memory AND impaired processing speed. None of his struggles were his fault nor due to his lack of trying and and he was actually working way harder than kids with normal cognitive functioning to complete a fraction of the work. I would have been punishing him for something he had NO control over. I have since backed off and let him work at his own pace. He is like a new kids and I think it has a lot to due with not having my pressure on him.

[texasmama]

OP, I hear the concern for your dd's future, but I am going to gently encourage you to focus on the here and now. There is no way to predict when and if she can take a GED or do CC courses. Just focus on evaluation and finding a good math curriculum for her and sticking with it.

[PeterPan]

Have you checked to see if your area has some kind of vocational school?  It sounds like this could be good for her, and that would be MUCH preferable to a GED, mercy.  A vocational school can have modified academics plus training that work out really well for some kids.  We have friends whose dc is positively BLOSSOMING in this environment.

 

[Crimson Wife]

Is it possible for her to get a GED and then go to a local community college and then into college or a career from there?  I guess this would only work if she can pass the test, of course, but assuming she can would that work?

 

She can start taking the GED at 16 so if she started studying in high school she could probably pass it.  I'm just worried there won't be enough time to get all the credits she needs but there may be time for her to study specifically for a test and pass it.  I don't know what level math a GED test is equivalent to, though.

 

The GED has a stigma to it that a regular H.S. diploma doesn't. If she can make it through a general ed diploma, I'd strongly encourage the OP to go that route. 

[stm4him]

I listed the placement tests we have done this semester in my post. I believe that most of this is not her fault but having her evaluated doesn't change graduation requirements. I still need to know the practical answers to how to graduate a child who may never catch up. Most kids are not going to be comfortable continuing high school to age 20 regardless of what the parents would prefer. There are plenty of kids in the school system who graduate or take some alternative path even though they are two grade levels behind or so. I want to know what is done about those kids.

[Crimson Wife]

You may want to consider using something topical like the "Key to...." series or Developmental Math. Really hit the most important topics to master in the middle school years: the four operations, fractions, decimals, percents, & ratios. Everything else is just gravy.

[OneStepAtATime]

If you get solid answers for what may be causing her issues you may be able to actually target the problem areas effectively and help her actually catch up, possibly even get ahead. She is in 7th grade. There is still time.

 

DD was reading Clifford books in 5th grade. When we finally got evaluations and answers to what her issues really were we were able to get her the help she actually needed not the help we thought she needed. She went from Clifford to Divergent in a year and a half after 7 years with instruction that didnt help her.

 

I know you are worried. I totally get that. I've been were you are. there is still time for her to earn a high school diploma. Chech local cc requirements. And seriously consider an evaluation. She may qualify for accommodations on Things like the ACT/SAT. Best wishes. (Apologize for poor writing...on phone)

[Tsuga]

Cc in my state is open admission.

 

You can get a GED or HS diploma if you are over 18 (under 18 is sent to HS for that).

 

You test into what you test into and that is where you start and unless you are, for example, functionally illiterate and innumerate when you start (we have refugees with one year of English and a 3rd grade education) you will find encouragement to get an AA transfer degree.

 

OP, I too would be worried about my daughter, but we both have high standards. While not college prep, it sounds like she's making progress. I cannot imagine how dropping choir could help. Music is education too.

 

Also... Simple arithmetic mistakes happen. I make them all the time. Math is about process, not perfection. Can you grade more on process and problem solving? If you do that, does it look better? If so, she may have more potential than appears and an evaluation is in order.

 

Good luck.

[texasmama]

By evaluation, I was not referring to curriculum placement tests but psychoeducational testing done by a diagnostician or a psychologist to determine the presence of LDs, ADHD, or other issues. It is very difficult to remediate if you do not know what the specific strengths and weaknesses are. It is kind of like a doctor guessing at your illness and giving treatment without asking questions or doing a physical exam.

[MyLittleBears]

I hear you about graduation requirement as we are in the same boat. :grouphug:  :grouphug:

I mention evaluations as sort of a gauge on what is possible for your dc and it what areas she struggles most. My ds has no sense of time or organization mainly due to ASD and executive functions. Seeing where his deficits are gives me a more realistic idea of what to expect from this child as well as seeing what strengths we can draw from. I know now he may or may never go to college. This kind of knocked me down for a time, but he and I are better for it. Realizing this gave me more options. Vocational school, college classes at home, perhaps college at a latter date, etc. I now am able to set short term goals for him with the help of his OT & SLP. Graduation is the end goal but setting up these small steps is more manageable for me yet doable for him. I could not realized all of this without the evals. I expect we have a long road ahead. sigh.. but I'd still rather know. I hope this does not sound harsh, as it is not meant to. I simply mean to share in the hopes that it may help.

 

I agree with Onestep. At 13 there is still time. Best wishes.

 

 

[Heathermomster]

I am trying to get a handle on your DD's situation.  Math is a major issue for your DD.  Does she struggle with reading or writing? 

 

My DS has dyscalculia, which is a maths disability.  He was diagnosed by a private PhD Neuropsychologist on his 8th bday.  I suggest you call around and seek a private evaluation to establish a paper trail.

 

The very thought of using Saxon math with my DS is horrifying. Death by a thousand cuts would be nicer than following Saxon as written with a maths disabled child.  Assuming your DD has dyscalculia, it is likely that she suffers with slow processing and working memory deficits.  You must accommodate and slow down.      

 

DS is a highly visual learner and benefits most from using manipulatives.  At 13yo, I used MUS and standard classroom textbooks for problem sets.  The book Overcoming Difficulties with Number by Ronit Bird was extremely helpful, and we still use the methodologies taught in the latter half of her book.  We spend 30-40 minutes on math and then we stop.  We only cover one concept at a time.  DS needs constant review and does most of his work on a dry erase board with me sitting beside him.  

 

Assuming no other learning issues exist, plan on two years of algebra.  Call the course Algebra 1A and 1B.  DS is currently making his way through Foerster's Algebra supplemented with math from James Tanton and Algebra Lab manipulatives.  There is a book titled Basic College Math by Lial that she could work through in 9th grade.  It is basically a pre-algebra course.   There is always Consumer Math.  If she makes it to geometry maybe look at MUS.  

 

For science maybe look at physical science, biology, chemistry, earth science, plant biology, and an anatomy/physiology course.  I assume any math in these courses would be accommodated.  

 

I don't know the graduation requirements of your state.  No doubt, if your DD was sitting in a classroom, she would have an IEP and meet the requirements for a modified diploma.  Use the Internet and explore her options.  There is no reason for your DD to not be able to graduate.  

[MomatHWTK]

Find out your state's actual requirements and just take one year at a time.  Get as far as you reasonably can and remember that you can spread things out year round and do additional years of work to meet those requirements.  :grouphug:

[Mom22ns]

You are asking questions that just can't be answered for a 7th grader.

 

Will she be able to do enough math to graduate? Will she be able to pass a GED? It has a math section and has gotten a lot tougher recently. Will she be able to do enough math to get any kind of diploma from a CC? No one can answer any of those questions for a 13 yo. 

 

Right now, what you need to be focused on is doing math with her every single day, probably at least an hour a day, maybe 90 minutes a day. If she can't do that, break it into 2 sessions a day. Sit with her every moment of that time. There should be no checking later. There should be no issues of her making mistakes and not having them caught, or not getting work done or not understanding without you being right on top of it. I know it is a huge pain, but that is where she is, so that is where you are right now. There is just no way around this if you want her to succeed in math. 

 

In public school, special ed students get a certificate of completion rather than a diploma. If they are unable to complete all the course requirements, but spend the years in the seat, the school issues a certificate of completion for high school. They walk through graduation ceremonies and receive it the same way other students receive a diploma, but it is not a diploma and they are not considered a high school graduate. 

 

OTOH, homeschooling in most states, you set your high school graduation standards. If she does 4 years of high school math, whatever level she reaches, you can choose if that is enough to graduate her. If her other subjects are on level, I would not withhold a diploma because her math skills are low. She was doing Saxon 6/5 and you have now realized the was overplaced and have backed her up. Wherever you re-start her, start her and keep going. I see no reason to think she can't get through Algebra, and a light Geometry (consider MUS) in the next 5 years. Really, that isn't so far away from where she is, or was. Just start moving again and make sure you are with her so she keeps moving this time. Do math year around. Do math every day. You might really consider if it has to be Saxon. It is a long way from the easiest math program. I have yet to hear of a child who struggles with math finding their salvation in Saxon. But I think what you use is less critical than how you use it. 

[stm4him]

The reason I like Saxon is she needs a ton of review and she needs to not drop concepts. If she drops concepts she loses them. She is also not good with auditory learning so anything on video is not going to be processed well.

 

So if you know of something else that is a textbook that is spiral I am all ears.

 

Also, there is a computer program I can buy that will check each problem in Saxon so as soon as she misses one she will know and if she can fix it easily she can go on and if she can't she can call me. I have seven children and another due this summer. As much as I would like to sit with her every day for over an hour I don't think that will happen consistently.

 

I understand how getting her evaluated may help but I already did a lot of testing over the years and I already know most of her issues. The ones not tested for yet I already know she has from my own research. Right now it is a money issue more than anything. But even if I had more labels I don't know that the world cares about her labels. My sister has a learning disability and ADD and that doesn't matter to her employer. She still has to function like a normal adult to keep her job. So while she may be able to get a few accommodations for testing and for college classes, I don't know that that changes anything about getting enough credits. But I will look more closely at NC graduation requirements.

 

I did check out online two CCs near us. The more rural of the two didn't even mention homeschoolers so I will have to call them. The other I can't quite remember at the moment so I will have to look again. They will probably be the greatest help with this but I don't know if I should reveal her situation or just ask general questions.

[stm4him]

Ok. I just looked at the requirements and they were a lot less scary than I thought for most subjects even for a regular diploma. She doesn't need any foreign language and she only has to do physical science, biology, and environmental science. I don't recall ever seeing a homeschool science course called environmental science, but at least she doesn't have to do Chemistry or Physics. I do need to get her through Algebra 2 and Geometry, but since I have fewer other requirements I think we will have time necessary to focus on math.

 

Now. Does anyone know where to find an Environmental Science course?

[MyLittleBears]

 If you are sticking with Saxon, this post might be of interest. There are few HS tracks to follow and how many credits for each.

 

 

Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:29 PM

From this website, http://www.homeschoo...n.com/index.php , I came across this article about Saxon sequencing. Down towards the bottom it talks about the different editions.

April 2012


WHICH SAXON MATH BOOK FOLLOWS MATH 76?

HOW CAN STUDENTS OVERCOME THEIR DIFFICULTY WITH ALGEBRA?

When John Saxon published his original series of math textbooks, they were designed to be taken in order from Math 54 to Math 65, followed by Math 76, then Math 87, then Algebra 1/2, then on to Algebra 1, then Algebra 2, followed by Advanced Mathematics (which, coupled with Algebra 2, gave the high school geometry and trigonometry credits) culminating with the calculus textbook for some students.
The books were not originally intended to be "grade" oriented textbooks, but were intended to be taken in sequential order based upon a student's knowledge and capabilities without regard to the student's grade level. But schools and homeschool educators quickly assigned Math 54 to the fourth grade level, Math 65 to the fifth grade level, Math 76 to the sixth grade, and Math 87 to the seventh grade level to be followed by the pre-algebra course titled Algebra 1/2. When the new third edition of Math 76 came out in the summer of 1997, it was much stronger academically than its predecessor, the older second edition textbook. It did not take long for confusion to develop around which textbooks were now the correct editions to be used and what the correct sequencing would be.
In the thousands of telephone calls I received over the years I served as Saxon Publishers' Homeschool Curriculum Director for Math 76 through calculus, the question that arose most often among classroom teachers as well as Homeschool educators was whether the student should go from the new stronger Math 76 book to Math 87 or to Algebra as both the Math 87 and the Algebra 1/2 textbooks appeared to contain basically the same material. Adding to the confusion, after John Saxon's death, was the fact that the new soft cover third edition of Math 87 had the title changed to read Math 8/7 'with pre-algebra.'

So what Saxon math book does a student who has completed Math 76 use? Well, that depends upon how well the student did in the Math 76 book. The key word is "successfully completed," not just "completed" Math 76. If a student completed the entirety of the Math 76 textbook and his last five tests in that book were eighty or better, he would have "successfully completed" Math 76 and he could move on to the Algebra 1/2 book. However, if the student's last five test grades were all less than seventy-five, that student has indicated that he will in all likelihood experience difficulty in the Algebra 1/2 materials and should therefore proceed first through the Math 87 textbook.

While both the Math 87 and the Algebra textbooks will get the student ready for the Algebra 1 course, the Math 87 book starts off a bit slower with more review, allowing the student to "catch up." The student who then moves successfully through the Math 87 textbook, receiving eighties or better on the last five tests, can then skip the Algebra 1/2 book and move directly to the Algebra 1 textbook.

However, if the student finishes the Math 87 book and the last five test grades reflect difficulty with the material, that student should then be moved into the Algebra 1/2 book to receive another - but different - look at "pre-algebra" before attempting the Algebra 1 course. Students fail algebra because they do not understand fractions, decimals and percents; they fail calculus because they do not understand the basics of algebra. Attempting to "fast track" a student who had weak Math 76 test scores - into Algebra 1/2 - then on to Algebra 1, will most certainly result in frustration if not failure in either Algebra 1/2, or Algebra 1.

So what have we been talking about? If the students have to take all three courses (Math 76, Math 87 and Algebra 1/2), how will they ever get through algebra 1? When I taught Saxon math in a public high school, we established three math tracks for the students. Fast, Average, and Slower math tracks to accommodate the difference in learning styles and backgrounds of the students.

Listed below are the recommended three math tracks. Please note there are no grade levels associated with these courses, but Math 76 was generally taught in the 6th grade at the middle school. The course titled "Introduction to Algebra 2" was the student's first attempt at the Algebra 2 course which resulted in low test scores, so the course was titled as an "Introduction to Algebra 2" on the student's transcript and the student repeated the entirety of the same book the following year. Over ninety-five percent of all these students received an "A" or "B" their second year through the Algebra 2 course. In the ten years we used the system, I only had one student who received a "D" in the course and he did so because he did little or no studying the second year and still passed the course with a 65 percent test average.

I will make you the same promise I made to the parents of my former students. If students can accomplish no more than "mastering" John Saxon's Algebra 2 course by the time they are seniors in high school, they will pass any collegiate freshman algebra course from MIT to Stanford (provided they go to class). Remember, they can still take calculus at the university if they have changed their mind and need the course in their new major field of study. And because they now have a strong algebra background, they will be successful!


FAST MATH TRACK: Math 76 - Algebra 1/2 - Algebra 1 - Algebra 2 - Geometry with Advanced Algebra - Trigonometry and Pre-Calculus - Calculus. NOTE: The Saxon Advanced Mathematics textbook was used over a two year period allowing the above underlined two full math credits after completing Saxon Algebra 2. (TOTAL High School Math Credits: 5)

AVERAGE MATH TRACK: Math 76 - Math 87 - Algebra 1/2 - Algebra 1 - Algebra 2 - Geometry with Advanced Algebra - Trigonometry and Pre-Calculus. (TOTAL High School Math Credits: 4)

SLOWER MATH TRACK: Math 76 - Math 87 - Algebra 1/2 - Algebra 1 - Introduction to Algebra 2 - Algebra 2 - Geometry with Advanced Algebra. (TOTAL High School Math Credits: 4)


NOTE 1: YOU SHOULD USE THE FOLLOWING EDITIONS AS THEY ARE ACADEMICALLY
STRONGER THAN THE EARLIER EDITIONS ARE, AND MIXING THE OLDER EDITIONS
WITH THE NEWER EDITIONS WILL RESULT IN FRUSTRATION OR FAILURE FOR THE
STUDENT.

Math 76: Either the hardback 3rd Ed or the new soft cover 4th Ed. (The Math content of both
editions is the same)

Math 87: Either the hardback 2nd Ed or the new soft cover 3rd Ed. (The Math content of both

editions is the same)

Algebra 1/2: Use only the 3rd Edition. (Book has the lesson reference numbers added)

Algebra 1: Use only the 3rd Edition. (Book has the lesson reference numbers added)

Algebra 2: Use either the 2nd or 3rd Editions. (Content is identical. Lesson reference numbers
added to the 3rd Ed)
Advanced Mathematics: Use only the 2nd Edition: (Lesson reference numbers are found in
the solutions manual, not in the textbook)
Calculus: Either the 1st or 2nd Edition will work. However, if the student uses my DVD tutorials,

they will need the 2nd Edition textbook.


NOTE 2: WHEN RECORDING COURSE TITLES ON TRANSCRIPTS, USE THE FOLLOWING TITLES:

Math 76: Record "Sixth Grade Math."
Math 87: Record "Pre-Algebra."(If student must also take Algebra 1/2, then use "Seventh Grade Math")

Algebra 1/2: Record "Pre-Algebra."
Algebra 1 & Algebra 2: Self explanatory.

Advanced Mathematics: Record "Geometry with Advanced Algebra" (1 credit) if they
only complete the first 60 - 70 lessons of that textbook.

Record "Trigonometry and Pre-calculus" (1 credit) if they have
completed the entirety of the Advanced mathematics textbook.
Under no circumstances should you record the title "Advanced Mathematics" on the student's transcript as the colleges and
universities will not know what math this course contains, and 
they will ask you for a syllabus for the course. 
Calculus: Self explanatory. 


Each child is unique and what works for one will not always work for another. Whatever track you use, you must decide early to allow students sufficient time to overcome any hurdles they might encounter in their math journey before they take the ACT or SAT. If you have any questions, please feel free to email me at [email protected]<script cf-hash='f9e31' type="text/javascript"> /* */</script> or call me at (580) 234-0064 (CST) and leave your telephone number and a brief message and I will return your call. 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

You might look at CLE Science materials since they teach to the student.  Or the AGS textbooks.  They are written at a more basic level but are considered High School level material.  They don't have a ton of math in them.

 

https://clp.org/store/by_course/67

https://clp.org/store/by_course/68

 

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/i_science/35-i_environmental-science/ags-environmental-science-mm8411.htm

[Crimson Wife]

 Now. Does anyone know where to find an Environmental Science course?

 

American School has one. I know nothing about the specific course, but as I mentioned up-thread American School has the reputation of being one of the easiest, get 'er done programs for struggling students. https://www.americanschoolofcorr.com/courses/science/science-environmental

 

[PeterPan]

Heather mentioned 2 years on algebra 1 and labeling them as algebra 1a, algebra 1b.  I've seen other people saying their local ps will have a track of algebra 1 and 2 that essentially IS the algebra 1 spread over 2 years to satisfy the graduation requirement of the state.  Nobody looking at her test scores will be confused.  I would see what your local schools do with students.  They might not *advertise* that they do this, but it might be happening.  If you look at the newest edition of the BJU algebra 2, it's stuff that used to be covered in precalc!!  Not everyone is meant to do this, ever.

 

Do not feel you can't graduate her and make her a path just because she's not like somebody else on the high school section of the WTM boards.  If she were in school, they'd do evals (if you requested and pushed), give her an IEP, give her vocational options, and make a path where she'd have classes every single year that she could succeed at.  And they'd put it on the transcript and it would be RIGHT.  And that's what you have to do.  You ARE the IEP.  If you haven't had full evals for learning disabilities, you need them.  Then you make a program she CAN do, give her the credits, and don't apologize.

[PeterPan]

Btw, have you looked at the Walch Powerbasics?  There are some other series like this.  Check them out. 

[Crimson Wife]

AGS has an Environmental Science textbook. http://www.proedinc.com/customer/productview.aspx?id=6442

 

We've used their Earth Science textbook and I thought it was really a great combination of easy readability (late elementary level) but higher level concepts.

[Mom22ns]

Heather mentioned 2 years on algebra 1 and labeling them as algebra 1a, algebra 1b.  I've seen other people saying their local ps will have a track of algebra 1 and 2 that essentially IS the algebra 1 spread over 2 years to satisfy the graduation requirement of the state.  Nobody looking at her test scores will be confused.  I would see what your local schools do with students.  They might not *advertise* that they do this, but it might be happening.  If you look at the newest edition of the BJU algebra 2, it's stuff that used to be covered in precalc!!  Not everyone is meant to do this, ever.

 

Do not feel you can't graduate her and make her a path just because she's not like somebody else on the high school section of the WTM boards.  If she were in school, they'd do evals (if you requested and pushed), give her an IEP, give her vocational options, and make a path where she'd have classes every single year that she could succeed at.  And they'd put it on the transcript and it would be RIGHT.  And that's what you have to do.  You ARE the IEP.  If you haven't had full evals for learning disabilities, you need them.  Then you make a program she CAN do, give her the credits, and don't apologize.

 

My SIL teaches high school math at a school that does the Algebra 1a, 1b thing. They do Algebra 2 the same way. Kids can graduate with the required 3 credits of high school math with Algebra 1a, 1b and Geometry.

 

Ds also has a friend who is a foster kid. He has shuffled between school districts over and over. When I talked to him last spring he told me he was finishing Algebra 1 for the third time at a third (different) school. He passed it all 3 times, so he has 3 credits of math Algebra 1 or above. He wasn't planning to take a math class this year since he didn't need it to graduate.  :svengo:

 

I just share those so you know OP that public school kids are graduating with less than Algebra 2. CCs all offer Intermediate Algebra as a remedial course that is an equivalent to Algebra 2. Most probably offer Beginning Algebra too. 

 

I've never heard of an Environmental Science entrance requirement. Are you sure that isn't a science they require kids to take once they get there? Environmental science is popular in ps now. It is known as one of the easiest APs. 

[stm4him]

Environmental Science is a requirement for the regular NC diploma but maybe you don't need that if you take chemistry. I don't know.

[stm4him]

That environmental science course is $738. There has to be something cheaper than that.

 

MyLittleBears, thank you for that very helpful article.

[OneStepAtATime]

Which Environmental Science Course is $738?  If you were looking at the AGS set, you were looking at the classroom set, which you don't need.  That version covers multiple students.

 

I just checked and the Student Text is available used on Amazon for $18.90.  Same with the Teacher's Edition, used for $23.73.  Student workbook is available on Amazon new for $12.74.  AGS has the Lab Manual for $14.99.  Total cost: $70.36.

 

But if that is still too much, you might be able to get away with just using the Student Text.  Or get the Teacher's edition which has a copy of the student text inside (but the print is pretty small).

[Crimson Wife]

When we used the AGS Earth Science, I had just the textbook and TM. Each chapter ends with a problem set so I don't think you need the workbook unless you think it will help with retention (you know your student best).

[Princess Ariel]

I am getting to this thread kind of late but I also have a 13 year old dd/7th grader  who is a couple of years behind in everything.  She has been diagnosed with high functioning autism and has anxiety and slow working memory and processing.  

As far as academics go, she has worked through Teaching Textbooks since the third grade level  and is now about half way through the  grade 5 level (I know you mentioned video won't work for your dd  but we have had great luck with this for her as she is quite visual but also not auditory).  She is doing well and I especially like that she receives immediate feedback as to whether each problem is correct. She also works on the Math-U-See online math drill to work on the math facts and I allow her to use a multiplication chart to complete her work. 

We have had her working with a reading tutor this year and her desire to read independently has really taken off (I am actually having a hard time getting her nose out of a book in order to do other things!) She takes an outside art class as that is her passion and where she really excells.

 

I have some of the same concerns that you do as far as what her future holds. It is scary to me personally and I have been obsessing about it a lot lately.  She has an IEP at the ps and did go there for services only  for half of 5th and all of 6th grade.  We just visited the junior high to see about going back for services for math, reading and social skills and we are trying to decide what to do. I am not sure about putting her there at this point in the school year which we could do since the IEP is still current. The early starting time and daily transportaion by us is also factoring into our decision but after meeting with them, I don't know that what they offer will really be that much different than what we are already doing with her. It didn't really sound like they address much about what  post high school options would be until 9th grade. I find it can help to have an outside opinion on my dd as I know I can lose perspective as I am so close to her and the situation. 

 

I really wish I had more to offer as far as advice but wanted to let you know that I can really relate to your concerns as I have them, too! You are definitely not alone!  Good luck to you! Lots of good advice in the previous comments :001_smile:

[Princess Ariel]

Just going to add this as a resource for those who may be interested.  It's from HSLDA (I know some do not like them) and there is an offer for a resource sheet on homeschooling struggling learners in high school,  which comes by email.  I just got it today and have not yet read it. I think it's available only for a limited time.  I am not a member but they do have some articles, etc., for free on their site. I will take all the info I can get on this subject!

 

http://www.hslda.org/docs/hshb/122/hshbwk9.asp

 

 

 

[happycc]

I have raised kids just like yours. One of them is 20yrs old. He is working at In and Out right now. He did finish high school but just barely. Didnt want anything to do with school once he graduated from high school. Getting him to do his work was pulling teeth.We hired tutors for years while he was in high school. Homeschooling him was hard.  Anyways after a year of just plain working at random jobs made him realize he needs a college education. He says he wants to return next year.  He is learning to be on his own more rather than always run home and help me out. 

 

You can try and lead a horse to water but can't make them drink it. She will figure it out eventually. 

 

Right now I have an 11 yrs old like this too. I do think keeping her in something she is good at is important. My daughter likes to sew so I bought her fabric and needles and she makes a lot of crafts. So keep the choir. Keep finding more things she likes and enjoys. Talk about how those things can become a skill later on or a business perhaps and that she might need to find a way to support herself one day. Maybe try a 4H class or some kind of class. Or perhaps outsource math.  

But maybe Saxon isn;t the right fit for her. Teaching Textbooks? Something online maybe.

 

Honestly she sounds bored out of her mind for some reason. Try something new or different. 

 

Homeschool Minecraft.  

More hands on stuff-Moving Beyond the Page

In one of the Moving Beyond the Page activities she had to write a few verses and chorus of a song of her own about family.

 

One year, I had the girls make up a rap song about fractions. They performed it and videotaped it to send to their friends. 

 

Just keep trying. Besides who really graduates...we are all lifelong lifetime learners. Instill that love first. Also remember she is a teenager. That makes everything worse. You would think they would take things more seriously because their time is coming to the end of staying in your house. But that just doesnt always compute. It didnt hit one of my daughters until she was 17.5yrs. Sigh. 

 

I use to stress and stress. Now not so much. Its not a race. Things always works itself out I have learned. Love and accept her for who she is and what she can do. That assurance means so much more to her than anything. They are so worried about pleasing you and the minute they know they are not cutting it to your expectations, it just destroys them inwardly. They don't show it by crying but they can withdraw and no longer try and perhaps start hating to learn all together. I wish I knew that with the first couple of kids. 

 

Is she a good person? Does she help others when in need? Does she care for others? If so, that is awesome! That is more important that anything else. That is the foundation of raising a child. Education...comes after that because she will learn that by taking responsibility of her own education helps take care of you and her dad and the rest of the family. She will learn that that will lessen your stress. Again she is the oldest of your kids and perhaps she has more responsibility on her shoulders than the others. Plus she is surrounded by all those little ones and feel the need to help you with them. 

 

The oldest child of a large family can be daunting and overwhelming. I was one of them and the pressure was on me to succeed, set the example for others, take care of the younger kids, help with household chores etc etc. I didn;t realize when growing up that my parents were just anxious. They were overwhelmed with all the kids themselves and were anxious that I may not be able to stand on my own two feet one day and be an added burden on them on top of the little ones. That burden was felt so strongly that I just couldn;t breathe. I just never reached my potential. 

 

Right now I am just a mom of many kids. I did go to college twice but did not finish.I was expected to be a business woman, doctor, lawyer who knows.  I mainly took care of all my younger siblings and their needs. That is all I knew. All of my younger siblings have gone and finished college. My siblings and I are close and now some of them do help me out financially. I think they remember the sacrifices I made with them-all the diaper changes, helping them with their reading/math, potty training them.  They love me as a sibling and call me when they need advice or support. 

 

Just don;t give up on her and keep trying. Keep building a relationship and if you can outsource with her, do it, to save your relationship with her.