Loving Jousting Armadillos and the discovery method!

[Chrysalis Academy]

I just had to post here to say that we had an amazing math lesson this morning!  We were working on Jousting Armadillos Chapter 4 lesson 4, which is on simplifying algebraic fractions.  It started out, as it often does, decptively easily, with simplifying an easy fraction, but it quickly led up to and through much more complex fractions, including deriving the Quotient of Powers rule via discovery!!! It was so exciting.  And then, as icing on my mom-cake of math love, Shannon figured out the power of reciprocal and negation rules all by herself!!!  It was a lovely moment.  I  :001_wub: JA!!!

[ondreeuh]

Awesome! That is fantastic.

 

I bought it, but I am not sure it will be a good fit for my child. He usually needs me to draw the connections for him. Do you think that JA would work as reinforcement after the material has been explicitly taught - like "here's how we know it's true - let's explore." Or would it be pointless without the discovery aspect of it?

 

 

[Clear Creek]

I totally agree!!!  I almost posted on the want-but-don't-need thread that JA is really a need, it is that amazing and effective.  I suspect my middle child, who really struggles with math, will even benefit from using JA.  Each lesson progresses so incrementally through the concept that is being taught that the student learns without even realizing it; they are linking the different pieces together amost automatically.  There is no direct instruction, so the students don't think they are being taught - at least my daughter doesn't!  The only caveat is that it really does need to be done buddy math style - without the conversation and the comparison of different thought processes, some of the conceptual understanding might be missed.

[mommymilkies]

Another book to buy! Where did everyone buy it?  It's not on Amazon Prime... I'm thinking there must be a cheaper source.   :lol:

[Chrysalis Academy]

I totally agree!!!  I almost posted on the want-but-don't-need thread that JA is really a need, it is that amazing and effective.  I suspect my middle child, who really struggles with math, will even benefit from using JA.  Each lesson progresses so incrementally through the concept that is being taught that the student learns without even realizing it; they are linking the different pieces together amost automatically.  There is no direct instruction, so the students don't think they are being taught - at least my daughter doesn't!  The only caveat is that it really does need to be done buddy math style - without the conversation and the comparison of different thought processes, some of the conceptual understanding might be missed.

 

YES!!! The "teaching" is so subtle, that when I send her off to do it on her own, she usually misses it  :lol: but it is set up as a perfectly Socratic, step-by-step path to discovery.  But it needs a buddy for my kid, for sure, who has a tendency to think she understands where it is going, and so skip over the steps, then get hopelessly lost.  I don't have to "teach" anything, but I have to make her read it and go through it step by step, explaining the steps even when she is rolling her eyes.  She is starting to realize that there is a method to the madness, though, and to slow down a little bit on her own, which is great to see!

[crazyforlatin]

I've been eyeing Crocodiles and Coconuts.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Another book to buy! Where did everyone buy it?  It's not on Amazon Prime... I'm thinking there must be a cheaper source.   :lol:

 

I bought it straight from the "source" http://www.arborcenterforteaching.org/publications/books/jousting-armadillos/

 

It's pricey for all three books.  I've just got the first one so far, I keep trying to convince myself that we should just use Jacobs, which I already own, for Algebra.  But I'm liking this more and more every day, so may go ahead and take the plunge for the next book.

 

ETA:  The first book is preA, the 2nd two are Algebra 1.  So maybe it's not so pricey for two years worth of texts.  Right? Right?  :tongue_smilie:

[Chrysalis Academy]

I've been eyeing Crocodiles and Coconuts.

 

Oh, let me know if you get it! I'm *trying* not to buy it.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Awesome! That is fantastic.

 

I bought it, but I am not sure it will be a good fit for my child. He usually needs me to draw the connections for him. Do you think that JA would work as reinforcement after the material has been explicitly taught - like "here's how we know it's true - let's explore." Or would it be pointless without the discovery aspect of it?

 

I am not one who thinks discovery is "wasted" after something has been explicitly taught.  I think for a lot of kids, figuring out *why* something that they already "know" works is just as exciting as figuring it out newly in the first place, KWIM?

 

I think a kid who really wants direct instruction - a get to the point, just the facts ma'am kind of kid - wouldn't like this so much, they'd be impatient.  But I think it is super valuable if the kid will tolerate it.

[crazyforlatin]

Oh, let me know if you get it! I'm *trying* not to buy it.

Well after all that talk about evil problems in AOPS Algebra in that thread on the HS board, I want something gentle yet discovery-based for those days when we start screaming at RR.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Well after all that talk about evil problems in AOPS Algebra in that thread on the HS board, I want something gentle yet discovery-based for those days when we start screaming at RR.

 

Yeah, that thread scares me too!  I really *want* AoPS to work for us, but comparing JA to AoPS preA (which I have), it seems like a better fit for Shannon - it will get her where she needs to be with less pain.  It's much less complete, in that it doesn't cover geometry or statistics or counting & probability, but supplementing is not a problem over here! :lol: 

 

But having read how many people like the Algebra book better than the PreA book, I haven't given up entirely.  I need to get the Algebra book and decide for myself, but I can't afford it till March . . . so I'm strumming my fingers till then.

[Halcyon]

We're getting JA for my 8 year old DS for next year--we'll be working nice and slow in it, but he's already done with most of Zaccaro so I think he'll be ready. So excited!

[rdj2027]

I don't own Crocodiles yet but Chuckles is just as good as JA.  It greatly reduced the grinding of teeth when we were dealing with exponents.

[Garga]

I'm on board.  I'm buying it for next year.  Fingers crossed that it works for us, too.  

[Forgiven]

Yeah, that thread scares me too!  I really *want* AoPS to work for us, but comparing JA to AoPS preA (which I have), it seems like a better fit for Shannon - it will get her where she needs to be with less pain.  It's much less complete, in that it doesn't cover geometry or statistics or counting & probability, but supplementing is not a problem over here! :lol:

 

But having read how many people like the Algebra book better than the PreA book, I haven't given up entirely.  I need to get the Algebra book and decide for myself, but I can't afford it till March . . . so I'm strumming my fingers till then.

 

What are you supplementing with?

[Chrysalis Academy]

What are you supplementing with?

 

Well!  :w00t: Besides JA,

 

To review and make sure that basic operations are solid, we are doing parts of MM6.  She also covers ratios very well, building it up from fractions.  Very solid.  Also lots of incremental work on unit conversions.  We've quickly reviewed operations then done the meaty parts and the word problems from most chapters.

 

To go deeper and to work on problem solving, we use Zaccaro - either Challenge Math or Real Word Algebra

 

To get an overview of a topic before diving in, she'll read a chapter from the relevant Danica McKellar book

 

For kind of mindless spiral review of operations, she's been doing Adapted Mind online, with a goal of mastering the "6th grade curriculum"

 

She was doing LOF PreA w/ Bio, but it's kind of dropped out of the mix, which is fine.  We have a lot going on, and it was getting kind of random

 

 

 

We'll finish both JA and MM shortly, so for the rest of this year, my plan is to start her on Alcumus (from the beginning, of course) and run through Ch. 2 & 9 in AoPS PreA (using the text and videos), then:

 

To cover geometry, I'm thinking we'll do a combo of the AoPS PreA chapters, and the CTP book Understanding Geometry - I don't really care for MM's geometry

 

Ditto for Statistics & counting/probability.  We're also reading about statistics, in Zaccaro and Darrell Huff's little book How to Lie With Statistics

 

 

Then the big dilemna for 7th grade:  do we keep going with Crocodiles/Chuckles?  Do we use Jacobs, which I already own? Or do we plunge into AoPS Algebra?

 

I'm planning on two years for Algebra, so we have plenty of time.  At this point I'm internally debating whether to do a lighter Algebra, then do AoPS, or just plunge into AoPS and pull from other resources if the going is too tough.  I'm leaning toward the latter.  

 

What kind of throws me is seeing how well she is doing with JA: that inclines me to stick with that series, (the pricier option) or use Jacobs (which is cheap, as I already own it).  But part of me thinks that this gentler discovery might be the perfect gateway drug into AoPS, KWIM?  :thumbup1:

[mirabillis]

Yeah, that thread scares me too!  I really *want* AoPS to work for us, but comparing JA to AoPS preA (which I have), it seems like a better fit for Shannon - it will get her where she needs to be with less pain.  It's much less complete, in that it doesn't cover geometry or statistics or counting & probability, but supplementing is not a problem over here! :lol:

 

 

Could you share 'that thread' with me? Which is it? I'm trying preA AoPs right now and we're off to a rocky 2 week start... please share the link. THanks!

[kiana]

What kind of throws me is seeing how well she is doing with JA: that inclines me to stick with that series, (the pricier option) or use Jacobs (which is cheap, as I already own it).  But part of me thinks that this gentler discovery might be the perfect gateway drug into AoPS, KWIM?  :thumbup1:

 

I don't really think either way would be wrong, and JA is (iirc) based on Jacobs in the first place -- but if I could swing it financially, I'd want to keep going with what was going so beautifully now.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Thanks, Kiana.  We've finished all the MM6 we're going to do, and we have just two chapters left of JA.  So for the rest of the year,  I'm going to have her do a little Jacobs, and a few chapters of AoPS PreA, and try and gauge from that what to do for Algebra.  We need to cover exponents and square roots before we do geometry (which I'd always planned to do with AoPS), but everybody has me so nervous about doing Ch. 2 of AoPS . . . so I thought maybe we'd do the exponents and square roots chapters of Jacobs, which would give me a chance to see how that book works for her, and then do Geometry & Statistics using AoPS.  I feel like that will give me a pretty good idea of which text works best for her.  Hope springs eternal, anyway! 

[mirabillis]

We're plunging into Chapter 2 AoPs week after next (we're off next week). We'll keep you posted how it goes!

 

 

[Forgiven]

Well!  :w00t: Besides JA,

 

To review and make sure that basic operations are solid, we are doing parts of MM6.  She also covers ratios very well, building it up from fractions.  Very solid.  Also lots of incremental work on unit conversions.  We've quickly reviewed operations then done the meaty parts and the word problems from most chapters.

 

To go deeper and to work on problem solving, we use Zaccaro - either Challenge Math or Real Word Algebra

 

To get an overview of a topic before diving in, she'll read a chapter from the relevant Danica McKellar book

 

For kind of mindless spiral review of operations, she's been doing Adapted Mind online, with a goal of mastering the "6th grade curriculum"

 

She was doing LOF PreA w/ Bio, but it's kind of dropped out of the mix, which is fine.  We have a lot going on, and it was getting kind of random

 

 

 

We'll finish both JA and MM shortly, so for the rest of this year, my plan is to start her on Alcumus (from the beginning, of course) and run through Ch. 2 & 9 in AoPS PreA (using the text and videos), then:

 

To cover geometry, I'm thinking we'll do a combo of the AoPS PreA chapters, and the CTP book Understanding Geometry - I don't really care for MM's geometry

 

Ditto for Statistics & counting/probability.  We're also reading about statistics, in Zaccaro and Darrell Huff's little book How to Lie With Statistics

 

 

Then the big dilemna for 7th grade:  do we keep going with Crocodiles/Chuckles?  Do we use Jacobs, which I already own? Or do we plunge into AoPS Algebra?

 

I'm planning on two years for Algebra, so we have plenty of time.  At this point I'm internally debating whether to do a lighter Algebra, then do AoPS, or just plunge into AoPS and pull from other resources if the going is too tough.  I'm leaning toward the latter.  

 

What kind of throws me is seeing how well she is doing with JA: that inclines me to stick with that series, (the pricier option) or use Jacobs (which is cheap, as I already own it).  But part of me thinks that this gentler discovery might be the perfect gateway drug into AoPS, KWIM?  :thumbup1:

 

Thank you for this. I'm so torn as to what to do. I purchased Dolciani's 1985 edition and plan on getting JA. The thing is that my DD is bored with MM. It's too easy for her. She gets so excited when something new is taught, but she learns it quickly and wants to move on--doesn't need all the problems to cement ideas.

 

She sees one of my DSs doing Beast Academy and is enthralled by it. She wishes she had it when she was in third grade, so I think she'll enjoy AoPS Pre-Algebra, but I'm scared from things I've read on here.

 

I have a feeling I'll end up buying both JA and AoPS Pre-A. I appreciate your sharing what you're doing. We own all of Danica McKeller's books and Zaccaro's Challenge Math. I think we're going to do what you've done. I hope you don't mind me copying off you, but when I read your threads, they hit home with me. I think our DDs are very similar in their learning styles.

 

Thank you!

[Chrysalis Academy]

You're welcome, Angie! I hope it works out for you.

 

My latest dilemna has been whether to get the next two JA books or not.  I finally ended up lining the scope and sequence of those two books (Crocodiles & Coconuts & Chuckles the Rocket Dog) against the other Algebra I'm considering: AoPS (I don't have this yet, but I ordered it today), Jacobs (which I own) and LOF (which I own) and I realized one thing right away:  to buy Crocodiles+ its TM and Chuckles + its TM, it would cost me $120, while to buy AoPS costs $60, and its about 4x as much material. I don't think I can justify spending so much, and then scramble to supplement.  I ordered AoPS, and I'm going to see if I think that will work.  If it doesn't, I have Jacobs to fall back on, and the other thing in the back of my mind is Foerster's.  Much as we have loved JA - and I think it's a lovely thing for PreA, and as a bridge to discovery method/hard problem solving, I just don't think it's priced right, given what it doesn't include.

 

here's what it covers:

Crocodiles:

Two variables/Coordinates

Functions

Simultaneous Equations

Conic Sections

 

Chuckles:

Exponents

Polynomials

Quadratics

Polynomials in Rational Expressions

 

Here are all the things AoPS covers (this is just in the first 14 chapters!) that it *doesn't* include:

 

Wayyy more detail on solving equations, especially multivariable equations

Ratios & Percents

Proportions

Inequalities

Complex Numbers

 

 

I know, I'm going from a JA cheering section to being down on the next two books . . . but I'm really disappointed when I actually crunch out the cost-benefit analysis.  I can't see that what I'm getting is worth what the program costs.

 

JA? totally worth it.  The next two?  Hard to justify.  

 

Who knows, maybe I'll get AoPS and realize it would be a disaster for dd, but I think I'd have to give Jacobs a try before I could spend another $120 on these two books.   :(