Get me out of the box on science!

[PeterPan]

I have always assumed I'd just do BJU science with dd for junior high and high school, because it's christian, solid, and comes with dvd's. So for the past couple years I've tortured her with it. Pro's? Well you can't get any more meticulous in building foundational knowledge, they work with all the modalities (fill-in-blank study guides, plenty of visual, hands-on, etc.). Cons? Well, the curriculum sort of assumes the student is stupid. It never really goes deep enough, and you get so lost doing the things it makes you feel you need to do (like memorize the 4 types of forest), that you end up losing the joy.

 

So all that was to ask what my options are for more brain-tingling science in junior high and high school. If I have more options, I can get her off the BJU bandwagon and make her day. If not, she's just gonna keep chugging. I'll give an example. I found a post by Moira in MA (yes, I'm reading everything you've ever written on the boards and learning a ton!), and I saw where she had used a TC course plus a physics text with her dd as a freshman. I never would have thought to do this! Like I said, I'm just totally in the box. That would be crazy interesting, and that would set her up with a foundation to pursue AP level stuff the later years. Any more suggestions? Something beyond straight abeka or straight BJU and the traditional 4 year (earth science, bio, chem, physics) paradigm?

 

Thanks! :)

[Miss Marple]

Cons? Well, the curriculum sort of assumes the student is stupid. It never really goes deep enough, and you get so lost doing the things it makes you feel you need to do (like memorize the 4 types of forest), that you end up losing the joy.

 

This hasn't been my experience with high school level BJU courses. In fact, many feel that BJU Biology is pretty equivalent to an AP Biology course. BJU biology is an extremely challenging course and will do an excellent job preparing a student for college level courses. But I think you'll find that just about any high school level biology course will require a lot of memorization. But there are ways to make it all fun.

 

Another series of high school science texts I like is the Singapore Science series (available from the singaporemath.com folks). I've used these in our co-op and find them very challenging and fun. While I understand the desire to have a Christian representation within the text, you can find secular texts that are not offensive. The chemistry and physics texts I have used are easily adaptable for a Christian. And, by the time a student is in high school, she should already be familiar with the differences between creationism and evolution and be able to read, process, and move on through those passages.

 

We try to schedule a lot of hands-on field trips within our sciences. Our local university has a fantastic nature center and preserve. The staff absolutely love to put on programs for our kids and they do a super job. We had a great physics lab using their ropes course also. Field trips aren't only for the young kids. Many corporations and public works facilities enjoy taking older kids through their facilities. I have found that the high school sciences are a lot more fun when done as a group and there are a lot more opportunities available to a group than to a single student.

 

The Teaching Company courses are good supplements. I've used their Human Body, Physics, Chemistry, and have their astronomy (using it later this year). It is secular and some of the courses have a lot of evolutionary content.

 

I'd suggest that you find a text you like and then look for add-ons (like TTC) and field trips/events to round it out. High school science is fun, but it can be a lot of work to make it that way.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

You don't have to fill in the blanks or memorize anything. You can use the BJU book as a spine and read library book or watch videos. Nothing like a discussion after reading a Christian textbook and then watching NOVA on the same subject!

 

The book you use is a tool, not the task master.

[TXMary2]

What about Apologia? There are still some aspects of memorization, but a lot of the "comprension" questions require critically thinking in order to answer them.

[Kareni]

You might find this site of interest. The author of the blog has posted her Charlotte Mason inspired plans for high school level science.

 

Tentative high school science plans from the Farm School blog

 

also, some past threads of interest:

 

Science resources

 

Know of any Homeschool Friendly Resources for Studying Forensic Science?

 

I HATE Science...but we have to do it. What to do for HS

 

Non-textbook style science for 10th grader?

 

If anyone has created their own science curriculum - would you be willing to share?

 

Also look for some of Nan in Mass's posts about doing natural history using the MODG (Mother of Divine Grace) syllabus. See these posts for example:

 

Nan in Mass... "Natural History"... is this a curriculum?

 

and

 

Making your own science.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[TravelingChris]

I guess we don't see it that way at all and my dh is a PhD scientist. I am not sure what you mean by fill in the blank and stuff like that. I don;t know what level you are using but I am going to be doing Life Sciences and Biology with my Jr. High and High schooler respectively this year. In truth, the Life Science resembles my high school biology a lot closer than the Biology text does. The Biology text resemebles some of my college work. I know that my husband found the physics text to be quite good when he went to lecture and help some physics students way back when we started homeschooling. Can this stuff by dry, yes, but overall I think the level is one for more advanced students. I would never recommend BJU science for struggling students.

[PeterPan]

You know, I think Cynthia nailed me. I've gotten tired, a bit overwhelmed with the baby and all (going in different directions, juggling some things), and I wasn't really bringing any pizzaz to it. We had done better with it last year, and if I put in my energy we can bring that joy back. I didn't realize so many people around here on the high school boards were using and recommending BJU science either. Seems like the real answer for me is to "get back that lovin' feeling." :)

 

Ok, since I have your ear on this, what is your take on using the BJU science a grade ahead come high school? Good idea or terrible? She's typically ahead in math, so I don't think that will be a problem or bite her (not having the math skills to do the chem, whatever). The new edition 7th grade text looked very rigorous to me (small print, lots of text), so I wasn't sure if there was a jolt or some place where that become impractical. And do you recommend doing the BJU science, from 7th through high school with BJU dvd, Dive, or neither? (or something else?) No PhD's in chem or anything here, lol, but a little engineering (dh) and enough science on my part that I don't mind helping. I just doubt my focus will be there, not with doing K5 at the same time, to be able to really DO it, kwim? If I'm not focused now, I'm sure not gonna be in two years, when this wiggleworm needs even more attention! Besides, there could always be more in my little horde. :)

 

Truthfully, I had never given the Dive cd's any consideration. I wasn't sure why it was logical to do them if you could do the BJU dvd's directly correlated to the text. Is Dive actually better in some way? As for the rigor of the BJU stuff, I don't know. I was ps for hs, never took gen chem, went straight into AP. Physics was so boring, just dropping packages from airplanes all day, and didn't nearly live up to the anticipation I had had all those years. Come to think of it, that was an AP class too. Biology at the prior high school (not an AP class) was a joke. I think what we learned in 6th-8th grade at the CS using BJU science was more informative. So I'm not really sure what to think of the BJU stuff for high school. However the more of their math I do, the more impressed I am. It's not necessarily the most brain-tingling, but they are so thorough, so meticulous to build concepts and nail all the scenarios and misunderstandings a dc could have.

 

That's a really interesting point that science involves memorization. Like I said, the most memorization intense class I did in high school should have been bio, and it consisted of checking your own answers out of the tm and grading yourself (I jest not!) and watching videos. I guess I struggle with this dichotomy, as we do in all things, wanting the romance but needing that solid, sequential acquistion of knowledge and skills too. BJU science has the solid, but I need to work harder at bringing back the romance. I just have to work back into it, maybe with some private dates, some nightlight meetings, just the tm and me... :)

 

Thanks y'all for talking me back to earth!

[Phoatogirl]

I have an advanced 6th grader and have decided to allow him to name his science this year. He chose marine biology....a course that is not taught until high school.

 

I would have preferred doing Harcourt or another program with chapters, quizes, experiments, etc....but he really preferred to follow his interests.

 

So I'm using a highschool mb text as my spine (having him read some of it, but not getting as deep by about a fourth). I will use some chapters from the Apologia general science (7th/8th) and Physical Science (8th/9th) books. I will also use much of Blue Planet Seas of Life and accompaning dvds. NOAA sent me a book of lesson plans and curriculum for grades 6-12 that we will use for hands on projects and web explorations. (The man with NOAA was thrilled that my 6th grader wanted to do this, saying maybe he will invent the newest version of JASON).

 

Of course these means I need to est. methods of accountability. I haven't found any ready made tests and quizes because the ones I've found for kids not in HS or college are way too easy (aimed at elementary, not JH).

[MamaSheep]

:bigear:

[Susan C.]

We were Apologia, then BJU, then back to Apologia.

 

I wish there were videos for Apologia, that would make it perfect. But Apologia's strong point is that it is SO homeschool friendly and so easy to run. I did BJU for 8 weeks (physics), and was right back to Apologia. BJU has so much administrative work, experiment prep, so many books to keep track of. Apologia has the text that is conversational style like a lecture, a CD for the computer for some explanation, a test/study guide answer key. That's it. Wonderful!

[PeterPan]

Wow Phoatogirl, that's very out of the box! If my dd were that interested in a topic, I'd probably do that too. As is, she's looking forward to the cooking course I'm planning for next year. Science is just an aside for her. Cooking, sewing, and history stuff is where it's at. :)

[74Heaven]

My science-oriented dtr did the fllg science sequence and I fully credit Rainbow Sci for igniting her love of science.

5th/6th grades Rainbow Sci [1 sem ea of physical sci, chem, bio, applications]

7th Apologia physical sci

8th Apologia biology

9th BJU Chem [i wanted to do Rainbow's Spectrum Chem but wanted dvds]

10th Apologia Anat and Physiology

11th poss Physics

 

Rainbow Sci is easy to use, expensive and well worth every penny. most people do it 3x a week with the third day of ea week is for an experiment.

 

Btw, I didn't know at the time that this dtr was science-oriented as we had done very little science. but I was partnering her with her older sister so she ''tagged along'' at a higher level than I would have planned to allow me to teach one science to both girls. Also, she turned 10yo on the day we started 5th grade so she was young 5th grader and still did well in Rainbow.

 

Personally having done several sciences now [Abeka w/ some of mine in gr 3-4 and cConsidering God's Creation], I think Rainbow is the easiest and least time consuming if you buy the all-in-one lab supplies.

 

lisaj, mom to 5

[Orthodox6]

We finally discovered, for 9th grade use, Paul Hewitt's Conceptual Physical Science Explorations. It is a college text, but perfect for high school use. We love that book !

 

Although we used The Spectrum for high school chemistry, I want to have a close look at Conceptual Chemistry. (author's name starts with an "S", I think.)

[8filltheheart]

If it were me, I would stop the BJU now while she is 10 and spend the next couple of yrs doing interest driven science. What are her deep interests? I would spend time at the library finding whole books on whatever topics she wants to delve into more deeply.

 

There is no need for fill in the blank boredom. She can create mini-chapter books on her favorite topics by writing a paragraph and illustrating topics, etc. She can build, design terrariums or create a record of migrating birds or do daily weather reports and monitor types of clouds, fronts, etc.......the list is endless.

 

As for later on......I haven't used the same source for any of the different sciences. I have decided that I really like Kolbe's guides to go along with PH Chemistry. I absolutely love Kinetic Conceptual Physics (the video games that they have to use physics to design the game to function correctly are impressive). I'm not sure that I would recommend Campbell's biology as a first high school biology course.....either that or I would do chemistry first next time. Oh, and for middle school, my ds loved the Plato science courses (he completed all of them in 1 yr b/c he enjoyed doing them so much.)

Edited September 4, 2009 by 8FillTheHeart

[PeterPan]

Wow y'all, thanks for the continued answers! I've spent hours the last couple days researching all the leads you've given me, what a boon! Momof7, I actually have The Elements by Ellen McHenry waiting for us, just that we have this BJU science tied around our necks. See the problem? We didn't finish it out this summer (our bad, but what a nice summer we had enjoying the baby!), so it's dragging us down this fall. We're just not into it now, discussing biomes, etc. In fact, when we went through it and tried to pick a unit, the only one interesting to us was the weather, go figure. They tend to do the same topics every year or every other year, just in more detail, so nothing ever feels really new or amazing, kwim? On the one hand that's good, because it means you can go into their upper level books and not be swamped. On the other hand, it's bad because nothing is ever new, meaning you don't really feel like you're LEARNING, discovering, etc. That's not nice to say, because it's not like she actually knows all of it. It is good stuff and there is stuff to learn. I think she'll really like the Ellen McHenry stuff when we start it. It's supposed to be fun, so we'll see. That Kinetic stuff looks AMAZING, or at least very fun. That's definitely on my pursue list!

 

Well this has all been very helpful. I formulated a little tentative progression I thought might work for her, then I can work back from there to see where we should be for 7th and 8th and what we can drop or play with now. Very helpful, thanks everybody! And here's that progression I came up with, based on what everybody said and what I've been reading:

 

9th-Conceptual or Kinetic Physics

10th-Chemistry (Conceptual, or BJU/Zumdahl)

11th-Biology-BJU+AP Princeton

1th-Calc-based physics, Anatomy and Physiology (every kid worth their salt wants two sciences their senior year, right?)

 

So that leaves physical science, life science, and earth science for 6th-8th. Or we trade out one of those, which presumably all would be BJU, for some other title that does more or less the same thing. But what I'm seeing now, which I didn't realize before, is that Physical Science is the lead-in to prepare them for physics and chem. Life Science prepares them for biology. And Earth Science, well I haven't a clue what that is or what it's for. I know assume there's a year where they study astronomy in-depth, and maybe that's earth science? Definitely want some of that pretty soon, as it has been a while.

 

So like you say, she's going to have input in this, but at least I'm seeing some more options. The DIVE cd's seemed really, um, droning, not like something she's going to enjoy. (very Saxon-y, just do it) The BJU dvd's for the physics sound flawed, and with DIVE out, that pushes me to alternatives. I'm pretty much set for BJU biology in my mind, since christian is a must for that subject, an absolute must. The only question is what the best preparation would be, which it seems to me is the Life Science, right? So basically we have 5th and 6th to do whatever topics or materials we want, and then we have to buckle down and get into the progression. That's what I'm seeing, which is what I was trying to figure out. And now I have an alternate progression that makes more sense and gives me alternate materials. So cool, thanks everybody!!! I really appreciate you putting up with me!!! :)

[dragon_horse_0002]

Which text do you think is better: Conceptual Chemistry and Spectrum Chemistry?

Have you had a chance to compare either of them to Introduction to Chemistry by Zumdalh?

 

Thanks,

 

dragon_horse

 

We finally discovered, for 9th grade use, Paul Hewitt's Conceptual Physical Science Explorations. It is a college text, but perfect for high school use. We love that book !

 

Although we used The Spectrum for high school chemistry, I want to have a close look at Conceptual Chemistry. (author's name starts with an "S", I think.)

[Moira in MA]

I found a post by Moira in MA (yes, I'm reading everything you've ever written on the boards and learning a ton!),

 

<Blushing> thanks for the huge compliment.

 

~Moira

[PeterPan]

Moira, it was very inspiring! When I find someone intriguing, I spend a day and go through and read everything they've posted. (Ok, well not from the general boards typically, but everything else.) I have plenty of time to do that while nursing, and I've found the horizontal reading of the boards very helpful. You see things in new light when you start putting them in context, the context of how the person used the materials as a whole. :)

 

BTW, our science life is going a little better, at least for today. I put her into the BJU6, skipping what remained of 5, and she's SO much happier. It's pretty obvious she's just really sensitive about the tone of the material and whether it's talking down to her, intelligently written, etc. I'm going to get The Elements all ready to go and run that parallel. I think the two together will keep her happy a while. And for next year, well then the hunt begins. I think I want an earth science book for next year, but I don't know if I can find one. BJU's would be their 8th gr text. Sounds wild to me to jump like that, but I guess a few here have done that. I'll just have to look at it and see. I think the next year or two is like the shoe transition, when they go from girls to womens. You're going back and forth, just hoping something will fit. :)

[TravelingChris]

Oh now I understand. You are using BJU elementary science. I am sure that is a lot different.

 

I am using BJU texts with DIVE Cds. The advantages: cost, we get to keep the CDs, lot less material to deal with, quarterly tests versus tests for every chapter, videos of the labs so if you can't get the materials for some lab you can still do it, good labs, good review questions.

Negatives: I can't think of any.

 

The normal course of action is for my dd to read a chapter in the text, define terms, watch lecture and take notes, complete review questions and check answers, and finally do the laboratory activity.

[PeterPan]

Christina, thanks for sharing how the DIVE cd's work! I wasn't really familiar with them till I learned about them in this thread. Yes, I posted here because I was trying to start working backward, to see if we're really on track or doing what we need to do, how much wiggle room we have, etc. I'll definitely try to see those DIVE cd's if they're at the next convention!