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Is this a reputable group? I'm surprised to see the very low regard they have for Prentice Hall Science products (most of the reviews I read referred to middle school texts)

 

From the site:

Why has Prentice Hall printed this gewgaw, instead of using a faithful reproduction of the original photo? Apparently because the Science Explorer books have been developed for sale to teachers who like colorful pictures and who don't care about much else. This isn't surprising: Prentice Hall routinely preys on the dumbest educators in the land, and Prentice Hall's illustrators need not fear that such customers will care about history or about the integrity of historical records.
I'm seeing this kind of attitude toward PH a few times at the Textbook League site. I've been leaning toward PH Chemistry and this is making me pause. I'm not the sharpest educator in the box and I would like to be able to have some level of trust with the book. Edited by Karenciavo
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I don't know about PH, but I checked out some of their other reviewed books (I think one was a popular history text, Burnett Ginn? Is that right?) and their review was spot on (IMO). I had my own criteria at the time I was looking, and it may or may not have been in line with what others found important.

 

 

asta

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Is this a reputable group? I'm surprised to see the very low regard they have for Prentice Hall Science products (most of the reviews I read referred to middle school texts)

 

From the site:

I'm seeing this kind of attitude toward PH a few times at the Textbook League site. I've been leaning toward PH Chemistry and this is making me pause. I'm not the sharpest educator in the box and I would like to be able to have some level of trust with the book.

 

I don't know the group either. But just reading this review would make me question the reviewer. It's a nasty attack even on the people using the books. And I disagree with the reviewers in one way on the section you copied. Sometimes a good diagram is more clear than the best photograph.

 

Have said that, I dumped Prentice Hall's Science Explorers because it was graphically too disorganized and it was hard to follow the text when reading, due to the graphics. Also the diagrams, while very attractive to look at, were hard to decipher. So basically I said the same thing. But I would pay more attention to a review that wasn't so vicious as the textbook league. I will add I had a few other problems with SE as well. But other people like them a lot.

 

But, I'm going back to Prentice Hall for 9th grade Biology, so it's obvious that I don't tar all their books with my opinion of the SE series.

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I don't know about the site, but I do have experience with the PH Science Explorers books. I also have the PH's Biology:Exploring Life to use next year. The middle school books I would have to agree with the comments. Information is sparse with alot of photographs, but IMHO not alot of content. My sons were bored with the books. The Science Explorers are thin books and can be completed within one month - think lifepacs (except I think lifepacs has more information). The Biology:Exploring Life book is different. I was impress with the content and how the book is structure. Maybe your library has a copy of the chemistry textbook for your perusal.

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Is this a reputable group? I'm surprised to see the very low regard they have for Prentice Hall Science products (most of the reviews I read referred to middle school texts)

 

From the site:

I'm seeing this kind of attitude toward PH a few times at the Textbook League site. I've been leaning toward PH Chemistry and this is making me pause. I'm not the sharpest educator in the box and I would like to be able to have some level of trust with the book.

 

 

I've never heard of the Textbook League, but Pearson/Prentice Hall produces the Campbell's Biology series.

 

 

Since I know - because I own Campbell's Biology: Concepts & Connections - just how rigorous it is, I would say that it sounds as if the Textbook League has a beef with Prentice Hall.

 

I just purchased the PH Science Explorer Earth Science, but I have not had a chance to look through it. If I find anything sub par when I do look through it, I'll find this thread and update my post. :)

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I don't know about the site, but I do have experience with the PH Science Explorers books. I also have the PH's Biology:Exploring Life to use next year. The middle school books I would have to agree with the comments. Information is sparse with alot of photographs, but IMHO not alot of content. My sons were bored with the books. The Science Explorers are thin books and can be completed within one month - think lifepacs (except I think lifepacs has more information). The Biology:Exploring Life book is different. I was impress with the content and how the book is structure. Maybe your library has a copy of the chemistry textbook for your perusal.

 

 

The also make the Science Explorers: Earth, Life and Physical which may contain more information.

 

I don't know if you have used the AOP Lifepacs. I have. I don't think the Lifepacs have more information. I used the Lifepacs for 1 year - grade 7 Science - and just glancing at the questions and information in the Earth Science book I just received, I believe the PH books to far, far better than Lifepacs. :)

Edited by H.S. Burrow
forgot to finish my sentence! oops!!
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The also make the Science Explorers: Earth, Life and Physical which may contain more information.

 

I don't know if you have used the AOP Lifepacs. I have. I don't think the Lifepacs have more information. I used the Lifepacs for 1 year - grade 7 Science - and just glancing at the questions and information in the Earth Science book I just received, I believe the PH books to far, far better than Lifepacs. :)

 

I'm currently using the Astronomy Lifepacs with my younger son and he likes them so much better than the PH books. The only thing with the Astronomy books is that they were spread across various grade levels (6th - 9th grades). He might be partial to them because of the subject matter (he loves space); whereas, the Science Explorers never interest my sons. If your book is thin, then we are talking about the same series. If your book is thick, then you probably have something like the Glencoe science textbook I have and I agree it does have much more information.:001_smile:

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The also make the Science Explorers: Earth, Life and Physical which may contain more information.

 

I don't know if you have used the AOP Lifepacs. I have. I don't think the Lifepacs have more information. I used the Lifepacs for 1 year - grade 7 Science - and just glancing at the questions and information in the Earth Science book I just received, I believe the PH books to far, far better than Lifepacs. :)

 

I have the whole set of SE and you are correct, individually they are thin. However, within the whole set there are actually three different sets, Earth, Life, and Physical. It is these individual sets which make up the middle school text books Earth, Life, and Physical.

 

We will be studying Life Science next year and I will be using the five books which make up the Life Science "bind up" book. All of these are meant to be covered in one year.

 

The beauty of the individual books is that you don't have to spend a whole year on one topic if you like to skip around or don't won't in depth coverage on a specific area. However, if you do want more depth, you can choose to cover all of the books which cover a particular area.

 

HTH

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I do tend to think that this group has an agenda, however, there are a number of other groups which have reviewed the PH books who have had similar comments about them. I've been flirting with the idea of using them for several years, but keep pulling back because of the content issues. Someone recently suggested CPO science texts for middle school. I have ordered a couple of those and am looking over them now....

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Thank you for all your comments. I'm sure if I look hard enough I could find something negative about every Chemistry program out there. :glare: I can't wait till I get this all figured out.
you

 

:iagree:and me both sister.

 

I'll say I would automaticly discredit a review written so unprofessionally in such a derrogatory manner.

 

I don't have a problem with an honest opinion, but that didn't come across as honest - it just seems like a temper tantrum.:001_huh:

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Here's my take on TL.

 

#1 Some of their reviews seem professional. Some seem unprofessional. That raises red flags.

 

#2 Some of the reviews focus on important topical considerations. Some seem to focus on nit-picky idiotic issues. I've read a review with a really extreme title, that did not back up the title with a similarly horrible content review.

 

#3 Just because a textbook has not been reviewed by TL, does not mean that it automatically gets a stamp of approval by them. It just means they haven't reviewed it. I know that nobody here has said that, but I've read posts where people comment, PH SE got a bad review, so I'm going to go with XYZ textbook. If TL got their hands on XYZ and reviewed that book, it might get an even worse review.

 

#4 In many cases, the reviews are on older textbooks. I know the Miller and Levine book has gone through at least one new revision since the TL review-it might be two. And they are just about to come out with the Macaw book.

 

#5 My personal pet peeve-rarely are there any recommendations. So I read the TL reviews. Throw out all the poorly reviewed books. Then I decide on a text that does not have a bad review, primarily because it has no review at all?

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#5 My personal pet peeve-rarely are there any recommendations. So I read the TL reviews. Throw out all the poorly reviewed books. Then I decide on a text that does not have a bad review, primarily because it has no review at all?

 

:lol: Exactly.

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I'm not the sharpest educator in the box

 

Goodness knows you and I may not see eye to eye on many things, but I've long had a deep admiration for you as one of the sharpest educators on this forum.

 

Or do we again disagree? :D

 

Bill

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I agree TL often gets their panties in a wad about fairly minor nit-picky stuff like pictures being reversed, and they annoyingly don't seem to have met a textbook they like - but I think the latter bit is the point. Many textbooks in this country are atrocious - especially middle-school texts, and many high school texts too. That's what the book Lies My Teacher Told Me is ranting about too (though much more eloquently :-). As much as they get over-the-top, I think their objective is to improve the quality of textbooks available.

 

Many (most?) textbooks are written by committees of... textbook company employees. If they actually get written by someone with a clue, it's a chapter here or there (there is actually a chapter somewhere of PH Biology that gets a thumbs up from TL, and a lament that whoever wrote that chapter didn't write any others). From one version to the next, they just re-do the graphics and tweak, another complaint is that errors get copied from one version to the next without being corrected. If I recall correctly (it's been a bit since I read the TL page) there's also a bit where they tried to reach *anyone* on their two-page list of reviewers (the actual scientists or science educators who are supposed to check for such things), and not a single one would fess up to actually having seen the books. Yikes.

 

If you read carefully they don't trash the whole PH SE series equally. The Physical science books are roundly trashed (that's where they have the most content complaints), they don't much like the chem, but the biology they're mostly nit-picky about graphics and boring writing rather than content.

 

Yes, PH makes the excellent Campbell high school books. One of the things that makes those great is that they're written by an excellent writer who knows his subject. This is just not the case with the SE books.

 

I have to say I was thinking of using them anyway as 1) I already own them and 2) couldn't find anything better (especially the biology books that are about half the series as they seem to escape the most egregious complaints), but now I'm going with CPO. Yes, they haven't been reviewed by TL, but they are written by actual individuals all of whom have science backgrounds in the field, they are much, much better laid out - forget what the TL says, I was having a hard time figuring out where to rest my eyes on the page in SE to find the content... (and I'm not trying to just pick on SE here, this is true of virtually every single middle school text I've seen in any subject - the other big exception being K12's Human Odyssey).

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Deja vu. Do you know who Ria is? From the old board in 2007:

Just so you know, the Textbook League is not a legitimate organization (m)

 

Posted by Ria on 16:43 May 31

 

In Reply to: Dont get too excited. I just found another site that contradicts what this guy say son this sight. What are parents to do? .... posted by Kimber

 

Don't believe anything they have printed. The guy who is supposed to be the head of this "organization" never worked at any of the universities he claims to have. They have no address save for a PO Box. In short, Textbook League is a sham.

 

Ria

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Goodness knows you and I may not see eye to eye on many things, but I've long had a deep admiration for you as one of the sharpest educators on this forum.

 

Or do we again disagree? :D

 

Bill

 

Thank you Bill. I guess I'm not as cozy with Chemistry as I am with Lit and History and it unnerves me.

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I'm going with CPO. Yes, they haven't been reviewed by TL, but they are written by actual individuals all of whom have science backgrounds in the field, they are much, much better laid out - forget what the TL says, I was having a hard time figuring out where to rest my eyes on the page in SE to find the content... (and I'm not trying to just pick on SE here, this is true of virtually every single middle school text I've seen in any subject - the other big exception being K12's Human Odyssey).

 

:iagree:

CPO Science and K12 Human Odyssey are the only middle school texts I'm using. When I first started homeschooling, I bought a bunch of different middle school texts from the big publishers (PH, Glencoe, Holt, etc.) and was shocked at what a total mess they were. Besides the horrible design (which will induce ADD in anyone who doesn't already have it), it seems like PH/Holt/Glencoe/et al start with the standardized test and work backwards from there, so the textbook becomes nothing but test prep, filled with endless lists of "Key Concepts" and "Key Vocabulary" designed to make sure the student knows exactly which concepts will be on the test. Who cares if the kids actually understand the material??!!

 

What I like about CPO is that the publisher is himself a physicist and he set out to create textbooks that give students a real understanding of scientific concepts, so the information is presented in a clear and understandable way instead of being buried under layers and layers of distracting, multicolored "learning aids." What a radical idea -- textbooks designed to teach middle schoolers science, instead of just test answers!

 

Jackie

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I only wanted to agree with Bill's comments.

 

And, I will be using the science explorer biology with my fifth grader next year. Maybe that makes me a dumb-bunny. By my figuring, she will get what she needs the next round, if there are any bases left uncovered by the logic-stage program. Not quite sure how I will structure it, yet, and that leaves a lot of room for me to tweak.

 

Also, I understand the varying comfort levels by subject area. Science is not as cozy for me, either, but I also remember that all programs leave gaps somewhere.

 

Example: In high school I was always assigned the top-level English courses. These were the courses in which grammar was not covered at all, readings were obscure, and composition was covered at a higher level. Rigorous. I took a college English course at Williams college my Sr. year in high school. I took the advanced English course my first year at UVM. I never read all those books that "everyone" read in high school. I got to graduate school with a lot of gaps in my writing. I had to be heavily coached on my writing format and style for both my Thesis and Dissertation.

 

I still made it through.

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Where do you purchase the CPO Science books?

 

 

 

 

ETA: How odd! This isn't where it was supposed to post!

 

 

You have to go to their site, http://dev.cpo.com/home/Default.aspx?alias=dev.cpo.com/home/2 and look for the middle school texts. Someone has found them on e-bay, but the middle school series is fairly new so don't expect many on the used market.

 

I've used them for a year and a half now and highly recommend them.

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Karen--I teach from PH Science Explorer Life Science (the bound-book), and use the smaller books to give myself a lighter textbook to carry home in the evenings (GRIN!). Like most classroom teachers, my lectures are developed from topics that relate to the material in the book; I do not *teach* the material in the book. That's what the book is for! And in that regard, I do still find myself having to further define, extrapolate and clarify ideas for my sixth graders who are studying from that text.

 

It continues to be challenging to get this age student (11-12 years old) to do more than learn the terminology in the text book. I work every single day to get them to *use* the information, to make it meaningful for them and personal, to give them living examples (or specimens if necessary), to bring videos and experiments into the units of study, and to have them collect real data and analyze it. I can't imagine I'm that different from any other science classroom teacher. Of course, it doesn't stop my students from enjoying the phrase, "The bear is trying to take the squirrel's nuts." and repeating it four or five times for the sheer joy of saying nuts... :)

 

The book is *adored* by the students, because of the bright pictures and easily comprehended graphs and charts. They always enjoy the video that accompanies each chapter. Most of the "work" of the chapters (Guided Reading and Study pages, end of section/chapter questions) is very straight-forward. I always have to jazz that up with deeper work. I find myself doing watered-down Biology more than strong-elementary Life Science, if you want to know the truth. My kids extracted DNA, dissected specimens, and conducted science experiments (one 6th grader went to the state science fair with her project on salmonella).

 

Anyway, I think the PH SE books are just fine as a spine text. By the time you add historical figures, talk about the nature of science, and encourage a couple of long-term projects, it's a full year of learning and growth. I wish I was using the PH SE Earth Science and Physical Science with 7th and 8th grade, frankly. Instead, I'm using the Event-Based Science Modules, and they are very poorly designed and written. I spend HOURS AND HOURS (sigh) each week collecting materials and background research for my 7/8 students.

 

Lori

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