Alicia64 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 And they did it without asking anyone. They just decided to apply for a grant with the Ca. Waste Management Board who was more than happy to grant them money to replace our really fun, nice sandboxes with rubber mulch (chopped up tires). They keep saying but it's easier to maintain! And it was given to us! And, no, they didn't do it for health reasons. The sandboxes are nowhere near houses so, in all the years I've been out there, we've never found feces. The fact that the sandboxes went from overflowing with kids to totally empty doesn't faze them. I pointed out to them that the users are too small to have a voice in the matter and the moms of the users are usually too tired/sleep deprived to take on the park board. I'm so annoyed that they'd make a major change to all the parks in our district without talking to anyone. Either before or after. Nobody from the board has even bothered to see if the kids like the rubber. They don't. We're also worried that when summer comes the rubber will heat up and smell. Plus the metal supposedly has been taken out of all the rubber but a mom has come forward who says her child got scratched by metal and now has a scar. Still need to see for myself. Like I don't have enough to do! The venting felt good. Thanks. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 How weird--I've only ever heard of rubber tire mulch being used to replace surfaces under equipment (it's good for that purpose), not as a replacement for sand in the sandbox! Geesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 YES! They removed the sand and put chopped up rubber pieces in it. I also love the rubber "carpet" under the equipment -- I have no problem w/ that at all. But the kids can't do a thing with the rubber. They essentially took a really neat thing out of our parks -- it was a great meeting spot for moms -- without asking anyone. And now that we're complaining they're acting like they can't figure out why we're upset. Not a single parent on the park district board. Grandparents, whose own kids are gone, but no actual parents. And they're the heavy park users. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) YES! They removed the sand and put chopped up rubber pieces in it. I also love the rubber "carpet" under the equipment -- I have no problem w/ that at all. But the kids can't do a thing with the rubber. They essentially took a really neat thing out of our parks -- it was a great meeting spot for moms -- without asking anyone. And now that we're complaining they're acting like they can't figure out why we're upset. Not a single parent on the park district board. Grandparents, whose own kids are gone, but no actual parents. And they're the heavy park users. A. That is insane. fortunately, you have a few options. unfortunately, they all include a bit of time. I sat on the Parks Board and am now on the Library Board. I have to say, it is SOOOO worth it to be involved. 1. Call your City manager/ send them an email. If you can find a link describing how insane RUBBER sandboxes are, even better. make the story personal, and include a "small" petition of a few names you know. 2. Go to speak at a City Council Meeting. They usually limit you to 3 minutes. Check the agenda that is posted a few days before and see where the Citizen Comments are. With a little luck, the whole thing can take less than an hour. USE UP THE ENTIRE THREE MINUTES!! Email/ call the council people beforehand so they can be prepared to offer you any help. Again: the more research you can do on your own via google, the better. evenif it's just basic child-development research showing the benefits of a sand box. 3. Call the people that donated the rubber mulch and ask if this was their intended use. They MIGHT be as surprised as you are..... eta: email SEVERAL mulch companies, share your concerns, and ask their opinion. 4. Start a petition. send emails to the moms groups in your area w/ your email address [or an anonymous one] and a plea to submit testimonials. Have a paper to sign at the parks. 5. Take a walk w/ your kiddos and while on the walk, knock on doors[and ask themto sign your petition]. The kids will love being the ones to knock :) You can probably find someone who doesn't have small children or is willing to get more involved. Have the City manager's and Parks Director's phone number ready to distribute. The next City Council meeting date too. 6. I'm a flyers kinda gal -- i print out doorknob-sized flyers, dh drills a hole thru them, i snip a slit in it, and hang them up. I've also been known to tape an info/ awareness sheet to the inside of my vehicle as a moving billboard. Being involved isn't exactly easy, but the council people pay attention ;) Edited March 25, 2009 by Peek a Boo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 YES! They removed the sand and put chopped up rubber pieces in it. I also love the rubber "carpet" under the equipment -- I have no problem w/ that at all. But the kids can't do a thing with the rubber. They essentially took a really neat thing out of our parks -- it was a great meeting spot for moms -- without asking anyone. And now that we're complaining they're acting like they can't figure out why we're upset. Not a single parent on the park district board. Grandparents, whose own kids are gone, but no actual parents. And they're the heavy park users. A. I say go to the dollar store and buy a sand pail, shovel, and some of those fun sand molds. Then take them to a meeting and ask how you are supposed to use these in a box of rubber. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Peek a boo ~ I went to the staff at the park districts board and asked to be an item on the agenda. She agreed. Is it okay that we're going directly to the park district board? Or do you think this is a mistake. I am putting the time in -- it's amazing how much time it's taking. Thanks everyone, I needed the support! Parents are mad, but nobody really wants to do much to get change to happen. And yes, the district applied for a grant from the Ca Waste Managment who want the chopped up rubber used in exactly this way. My understanding is that they're going to push this in other park districts. :001_huh: A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) Peek a boo ~ I went to the staff at the park districts board and asked to be an item on the agenda. She agreed. Is it okay that we're going directly to the park district board? Or do you think this is a mistake. I am putting the time in -- it's amazing how much time it's taking. Thanks everyone, I needed the support! Parents are mad, but nobody really wants to do much to get change to happen. And yes, the district applied for a grant from the Ca Waste Managment who want the chopped up rubber used in exactly this way. My understanding is that they're going to push this in other park districts. :001_huh: A. YES-- going to the Parks Board is a great step! GOOD for you!! try contacting local daycares and ask them for either a signed paper letter offering testimonials and/or to show up. Even preschool/ kindergarten teachers can be a source of expert opinion on this. Ask residents who are mad to let you submit letters/ a petition to the meeting. There is strength in numbers, even if you can only rally about 5-10 people. Do you know of other parks in neighboring cities/towns that have sandboxes? try calling/ emailing them and asking their opinion. Find pics on the internet of kids building in sandboxes. hand those out to the board members along w/ pics showing kids TRYING to play in the rubber mulch. Or an empty rubber mulch box. and fwiw, I think Elegant Lion's visual is GREAT IDEA. I am dead serious. take a pail of the rubber stuff TO THE MEETING and do a literal demonstration, dumping it [neatly and oh so carefully, as if you WERE expecting it to stay together] on the floor while trying to build a "sand castle". clean it up afterwards ;) I would even bring in KIDS to a meeting like this. and end w/ a reminder that you will be contacting your local representatives as a follow up. ** i didn't find ANYthing online about this idea!!! i did, however, find safesand.com, so read up on that about California law. Edited March 26, 2009 by Peek a Boo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in SC Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 And they did it without asking anyone. They just decided to apply for a grant with the Ca. Waste Management Board who was more than happy to grant them money to replace our really fun, nice sandboxes with rubber mulch (chopped up tires). They keep saying but it's easier to maintain! And it was given to us! And, no, they didn't do it for health reasons. The sandboxes are nowhere near houses so, in all the years I've been out there, we've never found feces. The fact that the sandboxes went from overflowing with kids to totally empty doesn't faze them. I pointed out to them that the users are too small to have a voice in the matter and the moms of the users are usually too tired/sleep deprived to take on the park board. I'm so annoyed that they'd make a major change to all the parks in our district without talking to anyone. Either before or after. Nobody from the board has even bothered to see if the kids like the rubber. They don't. We're also worried that when summer comes the rubber will heat up and smell. Plus the metal supposedly has been taken out of all the rubber but a mom has come forward who says her child got scratched by metal and now has a scar. Still need to see for myself. Like I don't have enough to do! The venting felt good. Thanks. A. Two words to beef your case - Latex allergy. :001_smile: Unless they can prove that the rubber in that playground is NOT the same type of rubber that can promote life threatening anaphylaxis in individuals who suffer from latex allergy, then that stuff has GOT to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoVanGogh Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I did a Yahoo search and came up with this website http://www.okcs.us/whatsnew.html No pictures or additional comments, just a line saying they changed out the sand in their sandbox for recycled rubber chips. Might be interesting to contact the school - see if they still like it, how the children like it, etc. Living in Texas, I cannot even imagine a sandbox full of rubber chips - talk about hot and nasty when we are on our 10th day of 100+ degree temps. :tongue_smilie: Good luck with this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in SC Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Two words to beef your case - Latex allergy. :001_smile: Unless they can prove that the rubber in that playground is NOT the same type of rubber that can promote life threatening anaphylaxis in individuals who suffer from latex allergy, then that stuff has GOT to go. No question about it - that stuff MUST be removed from the playground. Here is just one article on the subject: http://www.air-purifier-power.com/latex-allergy-cause.html As someone who suffers from latex allergy and has been hospitalized for severe to life threatening responses to latex, I can tell you that those who made the decision to put that rubber in there made a HUGE mistake and must rectify it (i.e. get that stuff removed)! There is a reason that most medical care facilities are switching to all non-latex supplies. Case is closed. Let them know. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Living in Texas, I cannot even imagine a sandbox full of rubber chips - talk about hot and nasty when we are on our 10th day of 100+ degree temps. :tongue_smilie: Good luck with this! Actually it's cooler than sand. Living in FL i've tested this theory! LOL!! OUr park has the whole area with teh play equipment in rubber mulch. IT's a lot safer (i bet your town will end up with an insurance discount over it). We still have sand under the swings... But honestly, i much prefer it over sand in the whole thing. I'd petition for them to put a sand box back in in an area though. I'm guessing the powers that be didn't assume the entire play area was being used as a sandbox, and was only thinking of it as the safety cushion under the other equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MgoBlue Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 They used this stuff in a playground by my sister's house in Michigan several years ago. Some teens started it on fire & got caught by the police...huge mess made of their lives...Upshot: the burnt rubber was removed & the sand was replaced. It was HOT in the summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girligirlmom Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Oh my! That makes no sense whatsoever. :confused: Sand and rubber Mulch are so different in a SANDBOX! DUH! I can understand having it under a playset. I have rubber mulch under our playset. I have a child with food allergies, but not latex. I never even thought of the implications! The rubber mulch does have little wires in it occasionally. I believe it's from radial tires. We do not allow barefoot children to play, which is a bummer in the summer, but once a friend's child had a little wire caught in his foot, I had to restrict the bare feet! My children and friends have tried to play with the rubber mulch as sand and it.does.not work. They end up throwing it which makes a mess, especially in the grass or on our patio. They cannot scoop it well. It does not pour through their sand toys. I never meant for it to be like sand, that's why I have a separate covered sand box. I would love to see your Park Board meeting at the former sand box and trying to play with the rubber mulch like it was sand. Many of us remember playing with sand as a child. If only you could get them to meet at the park, my guess is most if not all would get it. Oh but make sure none of them has a latex allergy or they won't be able to come and play! If you can't get them to go, then bring a sample to them. Fill a small bucket with sand, another with rubber mulch and bring it all in a bigger bin. Show them that they took the fun out of the sandbox and put in a safety hazard. Make a huge deal about asking if anyone has a latex allergy before you bring it out since you know how serious this allergy could be and you wouldn't want to cause a reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I did a Yahoo search and came up with this websitehttp://www.okcs.us/whatsnew.html No pictures or additional comments, just a line saying they changed out the sand in their sandbox for recycled rubber chips. Might be interesting to contact the school - see if they still like it, how the children like it, etc. Living in Texas, I cannot even imagine a sandbox full of rubber chips - talk about hot and nasty when we are on our 10th day of 100+ degree temps. :tongue_smilie: Good luck with this! This was my question when we were looking at using this for our playgrounds. The material was quick to point out upfront that it doesn't get hot ;) the latex thing can be good for the case, but I don't think you'd be able to get it ALL replaced --the safety rating of rubber over mulch for ALL the kids would likely beat the risk associated of possible latex for some kids. It's worth mentioning tho so they can seek out non-latex rubber alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I would get involved and see what the facts are. Here are a few things I would make sure to do first. Take a metal detector to the site and video tape it being used, to look for metal shards. If you find some, video them being picked up and bring them with you to the meeting. Get the information used to make the decision. Get the facts on why they say it is safe. Get the company name that provided the product and see if you can find out why there was a grant available for the product. Is it a new application for it and they are offering it for free to get the product into use? Are you kids the guinea pigs? What data has been collected on the material, how was it, and how long was it, studied for safety (not injuries/ but for chemical safety). Playing on top of the material, like a swig set is very different than playing In the material, like sand boxes. What is the research on both applications? How are tires dealt with at the land fills near you? Are they considered hazardous waste? Here are a few links I found. They may offer you a rabbit hole to follow, especailly to get to any research on the topic. (I don't know the validity of the sites, they are Google hits). http://www.ehhi.org/reports/turf/ http://ehhijournal.org/TurfOpEdKY.html http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1332647 Do you know any newspaper reporters or tv reporters to get on your side? They sometimes can get to research that you may not have access to. Review the minutes of the meetings that led to the decision. See what the board members said or asked about the proposal. You will want to know if the material was well researched and was a considered decision, or if it was proposed by the manufacturer as a 'free' option, and they just went with it. Good luck! I hope you find your efforts worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Sadly, the district knows what they're doing, but don't seem to care. They think they've come up with a rockin' idea!! :001_huh: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR SUPPORT. I've been feeling a little alone. There's one other family who are really helping and one mom who is doing a little something. But other than that, it's amazing how complacent people are on something that's effecting their kids. Or other people's kids. I mean, this was a nice sandbox for the moms and kids. It was large and a nice place for the moms to sit, watch the kids and talk. Thanks again, it's nice to not hear that I'm crazy!! A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlockOfSillies Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 One of the laws of the public policy process is, "A few big reasons are better than lots of little reasons." Keep your points major, simple, and few. Don't nitpick it to death; weak reasons don't strengthen your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Sharon ~ LOVE YOU! Huge thanks re: allergies to rubber. I never even thought of it! MgoBlue ~ Excellent feedback. Thank you. I wonder if there's links to the articles on those teens/that fire. Thanks again. girligirlmom ~ yes, the district was told all the wires were taken out. But we've already had one child/mom come forword who get badly scratched. Never even thought about no bare feet in the summer. Tap ~ Thank you! I'm using your links and advice! Flock ~ I hardly know where to begin. There's so many obvious reasons why this was a dumb idea. But the main one is: the kids don't play in it!! Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your time and attention!! A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Jenn~ Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I've never seen that before! How bizarre.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 We have some in the local Arkansas playgrounds, but it was to replace wood chips, and it is softer for falls than the wood chips. When it is above 90 or 95 degrees, it does get hot. Our neighborhood park has shade, so it's fine, but a few of the nearby parks with no shade are not fine for much of the summer here. (Although when it's that hot, not many are going to the playground, anyway, but a few do go in the mornings during the summer.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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