I'm wondering how advanced my daughter is

[Kuovonne]

I know that DD is accelerated in reading and writing. She's five and a half years old, and I'm sure that she's reading and writing more than a typical kindergartener.

 

I have a pretty good idea of what she is capable of doing, but I find myself really wondering what "grade level" that is. Is there any benefit to finding out what "grade level" she is working at? Is there an easy, inexpensive way to find out? Is there a down side to finding out her functional grade level?

 

I've toyed with the idea of giving her a standardized test to find out. However, it seems selfish to subject her to a test when she is so young just to satisify my curiosity. Plus, I wouldn't even know which test to give her.

 

I know that I should be content to just continue to work with her at her current level, without giving that level a name. But still I wonder.

 

It doesn't help that DD is tall for her age and people routinely think that she is two years older than she really is. For what it's worth, I do call her a kindergartener, since that's the grade she would be in according to her age. I'm also mostly using ungraded curriculum that is just "do the next thing."

[Tree House Academy]

Well, my son is 5 and reading books that are listed for a 2nd grader...so I consider him a 1st grader (because that is what 99% of his curriculum is - 1st grade) who is reading at a 2nd grade level.

[Kuovonne]

But I don't even know what level of books she is reading! I've done a few free online reading assessments that place her at about a fifth grade for reading individual words. When she starts missing words, they're always words that are not even in her spoken vocabulary. However, there's no way that she's reading at a fifth grade level. She rarely attempts chapter books. Mostly she reads picture books from the library, which don't have a grade level listed but do have difficult vocabulary. I have her reading from McGuffey's Second reader, but she isn't challenged by it at all, so I'm thinking of dropping it. So I have no clue what her "reading level" is, and other than my curiosity, I'm wondering if it really matters? I'm not sure what to do for "reading." Would knowing her reading level even help?

 

Writing is even more difficult to assess, and I'm blindly putting together my own language arts program. I have her doing dictation and copywork daily, and one day's lesson will fill up a sheet of regular wide rule paper, writing on every other line. The system is working really well for her, but tells me nothing regarding what "grade level" she is. I'm sure that she's advanced because I know that most kindergarteners simply don't do that much writing. However, I have no idea what grade level would do that much writing! Again, other that my curiosity, does it really matter?

[KJB]

Have you seen Book Adventure? It is a site filled with reading comprehension questions and they give grade level on the books.

 

http://www.bookadventure.org/

 

Also, here is a link that lists grade level for many books:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~ngiansante/

 

You can find hundreds of other such lists with a google search. FWIW, being able to decode at a high level would not mean being able to read at that grade level as the ultimate test of ability is reading comprehension.

 

To answer the bigger question, I have come to believe that for home schoolers grade level is only important for age based activities like scouts or sports. For academics, many home schoolers are all over the place. Also, you'll get some strange reactions and some bad feedback from other families if you walk around calling your 5 year old an 8th grader (not *you* but as an example).

 

I do believe that you need to think long range should you choose to allow your child to believe he/she is in a grade or grades beyond their age. When it comes time to take college placement exams, is it better to take those way early and compete against older children or to take them on time and compete with age mates?

 

If your child is academically competitive with much older children, they can take those tests *early* and receive "credit" for being a younger grade child taking a test intended for older children, kwim?

 

You can always accelerate curriculum, enter college early if that's appropriate, or whatever and still call your child an age appropriate x-grader for now.

 

(My eldest is 12 and a "6th grader" but she is completing her freshman year of high school this year. She's above and beyond the 9th grade in every subject except math and PE (0;. She was similar to how you describe your daughter when she was 5.)

Edited March 22, 2009 by KJB

[The Governess]

I am having a similar issue with my dd. She will be five this summer and is reading at a late 3rd/early 4th grade reading level. She can pronounce and understand what she is reading at this level, but she's still not quite ready to move onto chapter books because too much text on one page overwhelms her. Most of her early reader books are at a 2nd grade level and they don't challenge her at all, although she really enjoys them.

 

My plan is to continue to let her read her early readers in her free time, but work with her each day on a book that is a bit of a challenge for her. I'll break it up (she reads a page, I read a page) because right now looking at full pages of text is a bit overwhelming for her. I'm hoping after a few months of doing this together she will be able to move onto reading chapter books on her own.

 

And KJB, thanks for linking to that website!! I'm using it to compile a list of books that dd and I can go through together. So far I'm liking the Box Car Children, the Beverly Cleary books, Pippi Longstocking, the Betsy-Tacy books, and the Little House series. :D

[Mandy in TN]

But I don't even know what level of books she is reading!

You could look up the books that she is reading at http://www.arbookfind.com/.

 

Again, other that my curiosity, does it really matter?

Nope.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[homeschool_mom]

I've heard the STAR Reading Reading Test is really good to assess reading level. However, I have no idea where you would have that done.

[Misty]

My daughter was the same at that age and she LOVED to take tests, so maybe not so selfish on your part if you tested her. She may enjoy it! Mine had to take a test to satisfy the homeschool laws at that age and we found out her grade levels that way.

[angela in ohio]

My advice: call her a kindergartener and continue to work at her level. Many students read early and well above grade level. Some level off and some don't. I know too many children right now who were grade-accelerated by their parents because they read early, but they are now leveling off and are facing being "held back" or look bad because they are not performing at that grade level. It's better to wait and see, imho.

 

You can give her a grade-level test, perhaps next year. You first give her the test for her grade. If she tests at 99%, then the next year you can give her an out-of-level test (the next grade up.)

[Reya]

There are some good reasons to test. It's probably a good idea to have most *very* advanced kids given a battery at some point to make sure there aren't underlying disabilities that they are compensating for but not addressing that could hurt them later. There are some really cool (though extremely expensive!) programs that you have to qualify through tests to enter. Some parents have been really helped by psychologists' explanations and recommendations for educational modifications of various sorts.

 

>I've toyed with the idea of giving her a standardized test to find out. However, it seems selfish to subject her to a test when she is so young just to satisify my curiosity. Plus, I wouldn't even know which test to give her.

 

Actually, this could be helpful for ANY parent of ANY child! :-)

 

Remember: if she dislikes it, you can quit at any time. Some kids would enjoy it as a game--mine would.

 

Achievement tests give you info on a child's working level. If you think your kiddo is on grade level, you can give them the ITBS for that grade. If you think your child is performing at another grade level, on average, you can give them a higher grade level test, or if your child is notably behind, you can give them a lower level. This is called out-of-level testing.

 

The reason you want to try to match the test to your kid's probable level is because you'll get more info that way. You get several kinds of scores when the test comes back:

 

1) Percentile score. This compares your child's performance with that of those for whom the test was developed. The bigger the number, the greater percentage your child scored better than. This is useful for telling you whether the test was on grade level or not. If the score is between about 20-90, you're pretty much on the level you tested the child. If it's below, your child is functioning at a noticeably lower level than most kids in that age group. If it's above, your child is noticeably beyond that level. What you do depends on whether you're testing out of level already.

 

2) Core total and total composite--these are raw scores, not terribly useful usually, except you can see if your child ceilinged. (If 20% of kids get every question right,t he best you can score is in the 80th %ile.)

 

3) Grade equivalent--this means how old the average kid making that score would be. If the GE is 8.0 on a second grade test, that means the kid scored as well as an eighth grader taking the same test, NOT that the kiddo could do 8th grade math!

 

4) Developmental standard score--this tells you more about what grade level a kiddo is actually functioning at, but it's plaguedwith ceiling problems, so you want to start out pretty close.

 

I might print out a standardized test for DS to do at the end of the school year, but if so, it'd just be practice for him in taking a standardized test! It would replace school for that day, not be in addition to it, of course.

 

To find out the grade level of books, I like Lexile.com. If I dont; ahve a book in had, it's a GREAT way of checking whether DS will be able to read it yet!

 

>It doesn't help that DD is tall for her age and people routinely think that she is two years older than she really is.

 

Why is that bad? It makes her fit in with her intellectual peers. What was awkward was the year DS, then 3 and in the 5th %ile for height, was in a Kindergarten class.

[Kuovonne]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Just to clarify, my daughter is a kindergartener, and I have no intention of calling her anything but the grade determined by her age. However, I know that she is reading and writing above a kindergarten level. I just don't know what that level is.

 

Thanks for the book resources. It looks like the main determining factor in my daughter's reading is the length of the text. She's rejected chapter books on the third grade list, but read and enjoyed picture books on the fourth grade list. She can read books on the second grade list with no effort. So does that put her on a second, third, or fourth grade level? Would knowing her level help me find resources to teach her? Or does it not matter because five is too young to requiring independent reading?

 

For writing, are there any similar resources to judge writing level? Would knowing her functional grade level help me know what to teach her? I know what she is capable of doing, but I'm not so sure on what I should teach her next.

 

Is there a test where I could have her do reading, writing, and math at different grade levels? When it comes to math, she is still at a kindergarten level. I'm not sure what level test to give for reading and writing, but I'm pretty sure that a kindergarten level reading and writing test wouldn't give me any useful information. If she reaches the ceiling of one test, could I turn around and right away give her the next level test?

 

As for the age/height/intellectual ability thing, it's hard because she looks, reads, and speaks like someone much older than she is, so people (sometimes me!) treat her older, but socially and emotionally she is still a shy five year old and deserves to be treated as such.

[Mommy22alyns]

Kuovonne... just popping in and saying, "Hi." I don't have a lot of insight, but Becca sounds a lot like your DD. Pretty advanced in reading, not soo much in math.

 

Really, we get to feel around and see what works for our kids. A lot of experimenting and messing around and working at different levels for different things. As homeschoolers, it really doesn't matter what "grade level" they're reading or writing at, especially not at this age.

 

For reading, I don't do any sort of program with Becca. I just have her read. She reads to her sister, reads history and science books out loud to us, and has reading time in the evening. We still do read-alouds. She reads picture books and I have her read chapter books in the evening for practice. All of her reading is out loud still, and we're always around to help with the occasional word.

 

Sorry I can't be more help! But it's always nice to know others are in the same boat. :001_smile:

[Truscifi]

I have a similar situation with my DS. He is 5 and does have independent reading every week, although he doesn't do as much writing as your daughter does - usually only a few sentences a day of copywork. We go to media night at the local elementary school every week and use the STAR reading tests there, which put him at a 2nd grade level. Perhaps that is available in your area also.

 

DS doesn't like chapter books either, but I think it is the subject matter, because they are all fiction. He will happily read 5th grade nonfiction books about animals, or even chapters from his history book!

 

In my state homeschool children are able to use the gifted testing and programs in the public schools, so I am also having him tested for that next year (he wasn't old enough for public school this year even though we used a 1st grade curriculum). I'm hoping to get more information that way.

 

As for testing at different levels for different subjects, I'm sure you can google subject tests. I know there are reading comprehension tests for different grade levels, and I believe there are math tests also.

[Reya]

If you're only interested in reading, there are several online, FAST, painless, and free reading level tests. I don't have them bookmarked, but post on the K-8 Curric Board, and they'll direct you.

 

I consider there to be three reading levels: independent (where 99+% of words are known), instructional (where kids, once at a fluent level, can read on their own but must think about it a little--97%+ known), and challenge (90-96%+ known), which usually requires some level of external support. For "grade level," I'd take the instructional level.

[Kuovonne]

Thanks y'all for the support.

[~Jenn~]

the DORA test at "Let's Go Learn" costs about $20.00 and gives a very comprehensive assessment of where your child is in regards to phonics, phonemic awareness, word recognition, reading comprehension and spelling.

 

It's also fun and painless.:)

[Melinda]

We use QRI (qualitative reading inventory) for our reading assessments. It gives a lot of good information and the book costs about $40. One word of warning if you choose this, though...it is written as a graduate level/post-grad assessment and there is a learning curve involved in figuring out how to administer it. I do not have a masters or above in teaching, so it was overwhelming at first. A friend who is a reading specialist/speech-language pathologist recommended this test for my kids and didn't mention this part of it. I wish she would have, but I would definitely buy this book again, even with the learning curve involved.

 

The QRI assesses DRA reading level and decoding, comprehension with/without pictures for the passage, fluency and how their speed compares to the level at which the student is able to read and comprehend, and reading words out of context. It starts at pre-primer and goes through high school.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Thanks for the book resources. It looks like the main determining factor in my daughter's reading is the length of the text. She's rejected chapter books on the third grade list, but read and enjoyed picture books on the fourth grade list. She can read books on the second grade list with no effort. So does that put her on a second, third, or fourth grade level? Would knowing her level help me find resources to teach her? Or does it not matter because five is too young to requiring independent reading? .

 

My son had the same issue and how I overcame it was by having him read non-fiction books independently for 20 minutes a day. I would get real books, but with pictures and tell him that he did not have to read it cover to cover, he could just pick the parts he liked. For fiction, I would read him the first chapter of a book to get him excited about reading it, then he would read me one chapter aloud, so I could make sure it was not above his level. I also found lots of books in large print that were on a 4th grade reading level, which he was very pleased about! The print size is actually what threw him the most, not length. A few good series to ease into chapter books are, Mr. Putter and Tabby, Cam Jansen and Geronimo Stilton, then any large print book.

[jonnia]

the DORA test at "Let's Go Learn" costs about $20.00 and gives a very comprehensive assessment of where your child is in regards to phonics, phonemic awareness, word recognition, reading comprehension and spelling.

 

It's also fun and painless.:)

 

I've used this and the information it gives is very detailed and useful. My little one considered it fun time on the computer. ;) They also offer a math assessment at a very low cost. The results are available very quickly, which is a big plus for me. See details here: http://www.letsgolearn.com/

[K&Rs Mom]

Is there a test where I could have her do reading, writing, and math at different grade levels? When it comes to math, she is still at a kindergarten level. I'm not sure what level test to give for reading and writing, but I'm pretty sure that a kindergarten level reading and writing test wouldn't give me any useful information. If she reaches the ceiling of one test, could I turn around and right away give her the next level test?

 

 

If you just want an informal idea of where she is, there may be an easier way. Go down to the nearest enormous bookstore (Barnes & Noble or whatever is that huge), and sit in the kids' department where they have the workbooks. Open a first grade reading workbook to a random page and see how she does. Try maybe 4-5 pages per book. If a first grade book seems really easy, do the same with a second grade book. Keep going until she struggles with 3 of the 5 pages - that's the level she needs you to teach. Do it again with a math book, writing/grammar book, whatever you can find.

 

I had the testing debate with myself not long ago, and decided there wasn't a good reason for us, because the results wouldn't change anything. We just keep going, at different grade levels in different subjects.

[Guest boo]

I haven't found it useful to know grade-level for reading. My kids are all over the place, and often subject matter, genre, or even (as others have mentioned) page layout matter as much or more than complexity of text.

 

Also, for someone like your daughter, finding books that are at her level but have age-appropriate content will be a constant challenge. Simply knowing what grade level she's reading at may not be of much help, because many grade-level books will have themes that your DD (and you) would be uncomfortable with.

[Storm Bay]

One thing you may not know is that there are chapter books that are at a lower reading level than many picture books. In fact, there are a number of lists in the Reading Strands book that give the grade reading level of some picture books (Caldecott winners, for eg).

 

Secondly, it's not imperative to have her read chapter books or novels just because her reading level is advanced. My eldest, who is now 13, can easily read adult level books, but doesn't want to. Emotionally she's not ready. She did finally read To Kill a Mockingbird, which my 10 yo started (but I returned it because she had so many other books on the go at the time and it was intefering with school work.).

 

Most novels are not written at an advanced reading level, even for adults. However, content varies. Literary novels obviously require a great deal more from a reader than genre novels as far as comprehension is concerned.

 

If she loves to read and does it, she'll improve. As for her level, there are different schools of thought. Some say that in order to find her grade level, you could test her with an achievement test and keep on testing until you get a solid 50 percentile. I've never done this to find out. Mine are usually about 99th percentile in their composite scores (if they haven't fooled around during the testing time), which mean the tests have told me nothing other than that they're above grade level. However, I've sent those in for my annual report to the school district a couple of times. I don't use those very often, either.

 

My eldest did 3 years in ps (k-2) so had testing done. But the tests were strange--she was about 4 or 5 years ahead in reading in both decoding and comprension, but 7 years ahead in oral reading. However, there were ceilings to the tests she took and she hit them, so I don't really know if those were accurate.

 

What I did with my ds, who just took off with reading at 8, was to do an online test, and then take the lists from Reading Strands. I started him with where he tested and gradually moved up. However, once we started patching his eye last fall, he suddenly went up about 4 grade levels in reading within a month or two. His comprehension is probably higher than his decoding ability, but that's impossible to measure. This is something I'm sure of simply based on how he discusses things he reads and things that are read to him.

 

I use mostly graded materials, which gives me a good indication of where my dc are working, whether or not it is actually at the level they are capable of working.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Karin

[Kuovonne]

the DORA test at "Let's Go Learn" costs about $20.00 and gives a very comprehensive assessment of where your child is in regards to phonics, phonemic awareness, word recognition, reading comprehension and spelling.

 

It's also fun and painless.:)

 

Here's an update...

 

I finally got up the nerve to have my daughter take the DORA test. I picked it because it is one test that covers K-12, it was inexpensive, and it was convenient. I got it through homeschoolbuyer's coop. Within minutes of submitting my info online, my daughter was taking the test. It took about an hour and she was really tired at the end.

 

I find the results helpful, because it explains that even though DD's word recognition was at a high 12th grade level, and her oral vocabulary is at a 4th grade level, her reading comprehension level is at a mid 2nd grade level. Her spelling is also at a mid 2nd grade level. (Not bad for a kid who is still officially 5 years old.) Even though she can read and understand all those hard words individually, she really doesn't understand the complex story that uses them.

 

Amusingly enough, the test said that her phenomic awareness skills are "poor." She really did bomb that portion of the test, but I don't think that she understood what she was supposed to do.

[Truscifi]

She rarely attempts chapter books. Mostly she reads picture books from the library, which don't have a grade level listed but do have difficult vocabulary. I have her reading from McGuffey's Second reader, but she isn't challenged by it at all, so I'm thinking of dropping it. So I have no clue what her "reading level" is, and other than my curiosity, I'm wondering if it really matters? I'm not sure what to do for "reading." Would knowing her reading level even help?

 

My ds5 doesn't read chapter books either. I have tried him on several and he just won't go for it. He can read them,and has read them aloud when forced to do so, he just doesn't like them. I don't think it has to do with reading level, just what he is interested in. According to the public school where he was participating in Media Mondays (the library was open in the evening for children and parents to use the resources there) he is reading at a 3rd grade level, although I think it may be higher. I typically don't worry about the reading level of a book so much as whether it is well written. You may not need a formal reading prgram if she is already reading so well, just maybe some assigned reading if she doesn't do it on her own.

[Storm Bay]

My ds5 doesn't read chapter books either. I have tried him on several and he just won't go for it. He can read them,and has read them aloud when forced to do so, he just doesn't like them. I don't think it has to do with reading level, just what he is interested in. According to the public school where he was participating in Media Mondays (the library was open in the evening for children and parents to use the resources there) he is reading at a 3rd grade level, although I think it may be higher. I typically don't worry about the reading level of a book so much as whether it is well written. You may not need a formal reading prgram if she is already reading so well, just maybe some assigned reading if she doesn't do it on her own.

 

 

Picture books have a wide range in reading level; some are even gr 4 & 5 (some may be higher.) In the book Reading Strands some of the lists of medal winners include reading level, including some picture books.

 

Honestly, a five year old, or even a ten year old, doesn't have to read for fun all the way up to the level that they're capable of reading. Most novels are written far lower than college level reading when it comes to words and sentence structure. Naturally, content make a big difference. And most business correspondence is written at a high school level; I can't remember if it's grade 10 or 8. That info is about 15-20 years old, and I don't know if it's the same today or if it's gone down.

 

The main thing is that you have a dc who likes to read. Not all dc, even gifted dc, like to read.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I think it is very helpful to know the levels a child is working at, especially if they are very advanced and/or asynchronous.

 

I would find someone that can give a test like the Woodcock-Johnson or PIAT-R.

[SunshineMom]

Sorry but I did not read all the previous posts however I have a question. In any given ps class, how many kids are reading "their grade level?" I am a little dumbfounded to think that a 2nd grader for instance, would be only reading a 2nd grade reader. Really??? Are most kids having a difficult time reading so little? Maybe I have become a jaded homeschool mother or something.

[Storm Bay]

Sorry but I did not read all the previous posts however I have a question. In any given ps class, how many kids are reading "their grade level?" I am a little dumbfounded to think that a 2nd grader for instance, would be only reading a 2nd grade reader. Really??? Are most kids having a difficult time reading so little? Maybe I have become a jaded homeschool mother or something.

 

 

I have no idea. However, I have read that what is considered a fifth grade reading level now was a third grade level in the 1950s. Sorry, but I don't have the link/reference.

[Mommy22alyns]

I have no idea. However, I have read that what is considered a fifth grade reading level now was a third grade level in the 1950s. Sorry, but I don't have the link/reference.

 

 

I have seen that too - I discovered it in the book "Dumbing Down Our Kids" by Charles Sykes. There was a specific study done, but I can't find it in my book right now...

 

Jewel, it is entirely possible - we "norm" to what we know. Sometimes it boggles me a bit too.

[littleWMN]

FYI, just for future reference, your child doesn't have to take the whole test in one sitting. You can let her take part of it and then come back when she's ready - days or weeks later even. :001_smile: