WWYD? re: "graduation" & maturity

[Christine]

My eldest is 16 and will turn 17 at the end of May.

 

He asked me at the beginning of this school year if he could graduate early.

 

Technically, he could (re: credits on the transcript). I told him as much.

 

The thing is, as the year has progressed I've not noticed an improvement in his maturity.

 

For example, he has yet to do anything about getting his driver's license. Not something I'd be too concerned about, but if he wants to go to college or work, he needs a way to get there. (And I don't care to play chaufeur.)

 

He has yet to determine (or tell us) what his future plans are. (Work? CC? College away?) Or, at least, he refuses to talk about it.

 

He did inform me last week he feels ready to take the SAT or ACT -- but it would be really helpful to know his college plans to determine which test. . . .

 

He holes up in his room about 75% of the time he's not doing school -- where he holes up in the "schoolroom" (where he doesn't allow anyone else to be while he's there).

 

He hasn't looked into getting a job which he'll need regardless of college choices, or lack thereof.

 

He had to get a graphing calc. for math which he *expects* me to teach him to use. (I, who didn't even know such things exsisted till I discovered he needed one and about had a coronary when I found them and the PRICE.)

 

To me, all these things add up to "too immature". Therefore, I think it's in his best interest to plan on another year at home. (He'll be furious.)

 

But, I'm curious is maybe I'm "seeing" this wrong (too close?).

 

Maybe, I'm seeing it "right", but there's a very good way to deal with it? (example of talks?) Maybe I should give him my *requirements* (there's gotta be a better word that a teenage mind would be willing to accept) of what I consider "mature behavior".

 

Maybe the Hive mind could help me out???

 

PS. He started out in PS, and if he had stayed, he would graduate next year -- so this would definately have been a year early.

[snickelfritz]

Maybe you could outline a lists of things that he needs to complete to graduate.

[mrsdash]

This is the way my dh explained the future to our dc...

 

"If I told you to go to "xyz place" right now, could you get there?"

They said "no."

He said "what would you need?" and that was answered with "a map".

 

He then went on to explain that life was the same way. You set goals- that is your destination. You write down how to get to those goals-that is your map. And then you do what you need to do to get there. We then had the dc write out a list of what it takes to get where they want to go.

 

Maybe you could help him figure out a few future goals and write out what it takes to achieve them ? He may be overwhelmed with how much is ahead of him and needs it broken up into pieces.

[Danestress]

Graduating would be a matter of fulfilling academic requirements. If he has done all the work to fulfill the academic requirements of graduating in May, than he graduates. I personally wouldn't say "you can't graduate from high school until you meet my maturity/personality requirements."

 

You say you want him to stay home for another year, and you could still do that if he graduates. There is nothing that prevents him from having a "breather year" in which he can work, do an internship, apply to colleges, and pursue hobbies IF you are willing to have him live in your house while he does those things. That might give him time to mature some and take responsibility for his future. Since it sounds like he has no firm plan for getting a job and moving out, it sounds like he's going to live with you whether he graduates in May or not, and maybe that is a good thing.

 

I wouldn't tie your personal requirements to graduating. I would tie them to "continuing to enjoy the benefits of living here and receiving our financial assistance." So just based on what you are saying here, and not knowing more about a situation that I am sure is complex, I might tell him that he can graduate in May because he earned that academically. However, I would tell him that he may NOT just hang out at my house for a year with no plan, that he needs to be working towards certain things if he wants to be there, that in less than a year he will be 18 and that he will be ON HIS OWN if he's not in college. That's one free year to live at home and work towards his goals, and then it's 18 and out.

[Christine]

Being a map person, I can totally relate to this.

 

And herein lies the problem. . .

 

You set goals- that is your destination.

 

As far as I'm able to determine the child has no "destination".

 

NONE

 

WHATSOEVER.

 

Not even a vague representation of an idea for a destination.

 

Yes, I can imagine very well that he feels overwhelmed. . .

 

We even did diagnostic testing this year that is supposed to give you and idea of different areas you would excel at (a skills test, not an interest test); in the hope that would provide him. . .*something*.

 

NADA

 

ZILCHO

 

ZIP

 

And I'm feeling myself getting frustrated. . . so, again, I can only imagine what he's feeling. . .

[Ria]

My eldest is 16 and will turn 17 at the end of May.

 

He asked me at the beginning of this school year if he could graduate early.

 

Technically, he could (re: credits on the transcript). I told him as much.

 

The thing is, as the year has progressed I've not noticed an improvement in his maturity.

 

For example, he has yet to do anything about getting his driver's license. Not something I'd be too concerned about, but if he wants to go to college or work, he needs a way to get there. (And I don't care to play chaufeur.)

 

He has yet to determine (or tell us) what his future plans are. (Work? CC? College away?) Or, at least, he refuses to talk about it.

 

He did inform me last week he feels ready to take the SAT or ACT -- but it would be really helpful to know his college plans to determine which test. . . .

 

He holes up in his room about 75% of the time he's not doing school -- where he holes up in the "schoolroom" (where he doesn't allow anyone else to be while he's there).

 

He hasn't looked into getting a job which he'll need regardless of college choices, or lack thereof.

 

He had to get a graphing calc. for math which he *expects* me to teach him to use. (I, who didn't even know such things exsisted till I discovered he needed one and about had a coronary when I found them and the PRICE.)

 

To me, all these things add up to "too immature". Therefore, I think it's in his best interest to plan on another year at home. (He'll be furious.)

 

But, I'm curious is maybe I'm "seeing" this wrong (too close?).

 

Maybe, I'm seeing it "right", but there's a very good way to deal with it? (example of talks?) Maybe I should give him my *requirements* (there's gotta be a better word that a teenage mind would be willing to accept) of what I consider "mature behavior".

 

Maybe the Hive mind could help me out???

 

PS. He started out in PS, and if he had stayed, he would graduate next year -- so this would definately have been a year early.

 

(Gently) To be honest, it sounds like you have some major communications and authority issues with your son. You mentioned that "he refuses to talk" about his future plans. He's "informed" you that he's ready to take the SAT/ACT. He "expects" you to teach him to use the calculator. He "has yet to tell" you about his future plans. He "holes up" in either his room or the schoolroom, and "he doesn't allow" others to be in the room with him.

 

You've got more to deal with than just thinking about letting him graduate early, which, given what you've said and the fact that it's now March, seems like it would be a disastrous decision.

 

My advice would be for you and your husband to become more of the authority figures, and lay down some rules and expectations, but also to become more involved in your son's life.

 

Inform him that in order to graduate NEXT year, and in order for you to help with college (or allow him to use the car and/or live at home) certain things have to happen: he has to have a realistic goal (ie, no aimlessness), he must be gainfully employed during the school year, he must get his license, he must become communicative and open, he can no longer hole up anywhere, he can't dictate who can or can't be in a room with him, etc. You should also come up with a plan for paying for college, transportation to job and/or college, paying for car insurance, living at home...all these things need to be discussed. Is he assuming that he can just live at home and have you drive him around? If you have not had a discussion about his responsibilities as a young graduated adult, perhaps you should.

 

He's only 16....perhaps you and your husband should be the ones helping him figure out his future plans rather than expecting him to do it alone? Perhaps you and your husband should be the ones telling him when he'll take the tests, when he'll go out and practice driving, when you'll go look at colleges, etc? I'm somewhat confused that you expect a child of 16 to make all his future plans unaided...those things are very overwhelming.

 

Unless your son has a plan for his future, and unless you and your dh become actively involved in helping him develop that plan, you may very well end up with an aimless kid living at home for a long time to come.

 

Ria

[Parrothead]

(Gently) To be honest, it sounds like you have some major communications and authority issues with your son. You mentioned that "he refuses to talk" about his future plans. He's "informed" you that he's ready to take the SAT/ACT. He "expects" you to teach him to use the calculator. He "has yet to tell" you about his future plans. He "holes up" in either his room or the schoolroom, and "he doesn't allow" others to be in the room with him.

 

You've got more to deal with than just thinking about letting him graduate early, which, given what you've said and the fact that it's now March, seems like it would be a disastrous decision.

 

My advice would be for you and your husband to become more of the authority figures, and lay down some rules and expectations, but also to become more involved in your son's life.

 

Inform him that in order to graduate NEXT year, and in order for you to help with college (or allow him to use the car and/or live at home) certain things have to happen: he has to have a realistic goal (ie, no aimlessness), he must be gainfully employed during the school year, he must get his license, he must become communicative and open, he can no longer hole up anywhere, he can't dictate who can or can't be in a room with him, etc. You should also come up with a plan for paying for college, transportation to job and/or college, paying for car insurance, living at home...all these things need to be discussed. Is he assuming that he can just live at home and have you drive him around? If you have not had a discussion about his responsibilities as a young graduated adult, perhaps you should.

 

He's only 16....perhaps you and your husband should be the ones helping him figure out his future plans rather than expecting him to do it alone? Perhaps you and your husband should be the ones telling him when he'll take the tests, when he'll go out and practice driving, when you'll go look at colleges, etc? I'm somewhat confused that you expect a child of 16 to make all his future plans unaided...those things are very overwhelming.

 

Unless your son has a plan for his future, and unless you and your dh become actively involved in helping him develop that plan, you may very well end up with an aimless kid living at home for a long time to come.

 

Ria

:iagree: You said it so well.

 

Has this child thought about the military? That might give him some direction and a way to pay college expenses when he knows what he wants to do in the private sector.

[Christine]

I'll address this one 1st as it's easiest:

 

I'm somewhat confused that you expect a child of 16 to make all his future plans unaided...those things are very overwhelming.

 

The short answer is because I was not given a choice as a child. I was informed I was going to college -- and CC was not an option it had to be "away".

 

I even talked and pleaded with my parents my entire senior year telling them that college was so NOT what I wanted to do at that point.

 

But, in the interest of doing *what's best*, I was sent off -- and flunked miserably.

 

And in the interest of *getting away*, I joined the military. . .I did go back to college, after a couple of years, my marriage, and a couple of kids and got my degree.

 

So, it is that my children are not *told*.

 

They are made aware of their options. They know of the money we have set aside for them (either for college or "life"). They have been told by DH, in no uncertain terms, that *hanging out* at home after grad. is not happening unless they inform us of their plan and we agree.

 

(Gently) To be honest, it sounds like you have some major communications and authority issues with your son.

 

You needn't be "gentle" -- though I appreciate it. I am very aware we have issues. . .

 

You mentioned that "he refuses to talk" about his future plans.

 

I suspect this is because he has none. But, I will admit this also suggests an underlying problem.

 

He's "informed" you that he's ready to take the SAT/ACT.

 

Well, this was because he wasn't moving, so I gave him a deadline to make up his mind about taking either of these exams. He "informed" me the final date of his mother-imposed deadline.

 

He "expects" you to teach him to use the calculator.

 

Yeah. . .I was just told this a couple of days ago. I asked him why he would imagine that I would start spoon-feeding him now. . .(probably not the best parental response).

 

He "holes up" in either his room or the schoolroom, and "he doesn't allow" others to be in the room with him.

 

In his defence, he's easily distracted during school. . .thus, why he doesn't want anyone else in the school room. The holing up in his room is a whole 'nuther matter.

 

(Sadly, he the *poster child* for any "they-don't-get-any-socialization" activist. . .though I'm 98% certain this has more to do with our military stint than anything else. This based on his acknowledgement to that fact last year.)

 

******************************

 

At this time, because I'm now feeling like a horrible mom, I want to say that DS2 (age 14) is doing wonderfully. He plans to be a vet, plans to get a job next year, very social, has discussed in great detail his plans for college. . . DS3 & 4 are also doing well.

[mrsdash]

I could not agree with Ria more. He does sound as if he is calling some shots around the house that he has no business calling.

We have told our dc often to "have a plan" and we walk them through what it will take. They have lists (short term and long term) on their bedroom walls to remind them to stay the course. I'm sure I'm now repeating myself but as an example of a short term:

 

"What it takes to get my drivers license"

 

get the study book,

study and take online quizzes for 2 weeks,

make my appointment

 

If things are bite-sized, he may be able to see it more clearly and see that it is all attainable.

[Christine]

Has this child thought about the military? .

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Your response came as I was typing mine. ..

 

One thing I know for certain, this child is NOT going into the military! (Though, honestly, boot camp for him is very appealing to me.)

[mrsdash]

You are not a horrible mom

:grouphug:

It sounds like he just feels a little lost right now. It doesn't mean he'll not find his way with a little help from you.

[Parrothead]

 

So, it is that my children are not *told*.

 

 

I really think you are going to have to tell him something. Listing options and telling him that he has to pick one is not bad parenting. There are only a few to choose from anyway - college (away or CC), getting a full-time job or joining the military which you said was out already.

 

If he wants to go to college there have to be preparations made now to enter NEXT year. If he is going to go straight to work, maybe a few classes in his chosen field.

 

You will have to get him involved with several things. The first being decisions about his future. The second is getting it in gear and getting his DL. Next he has to get out of the house. I know that he may already may be doing that, but from the sound of your previous posts it sounds like he is a bit self-involved. (IMHO, your spoon-feeding comment was a good one.) Give him a choice of getting a part time job, doing volunteer work or participating in a sport or other activity that is geared to his present career goal. I say present because the current goal may change over the next couple years. Telling him that one of those things must be done isn't the same as telling him that he will do X and there is no discussion about it.

 

While working on those things help him make plans on accomplishing his new future goals. As opportunities present themselves use them. His socialization issues won't be corrected by being home all the time.

[Kelli in TN]

I did not read the other responses so if I have repeated anyone's advice please forgive me.

 

I have had a student graduate from homeschooling at 17. I have had a child graduate from public school at almost 19. I believe that unless the student is driven and goal oriented and just exceptional, later is better. If I could go back and do the whole thing again, my oldest would not have graduated at 17. No way. No how.

 

I knew my kid was not ready for college and even begged for a gap year but the scholarship that was offered could not be held over for a year. He had to enroll the summer after graduation or kiss the money goodbye. We enrolled him and it was a disaster and now at the age of 23, with a fulltime job and a wife, he is in college. It is very hard now.

 

That's just my experience, for what it's worth.

[Ria]

I really think you are going to have to tell him something. Listing options and telling him that he has to pick one is not bad parenting. There are only a few to choose from anyway - college (away or CC), getting a full-time job or joining the military which you said was out already.

 

If he wants to go to college there have to be preparations made now to enter NEXT year. If he is going to go straight to work, maybe a few classes in his chosen field.

 

You will have to get him involved with several things. The first being decisions about his future. The second is getting it in gear and getting his DL. Next he has to get out of the house. I know that he may already may be doing that, but from the sound of your previous posts it sounds like he is a bit self-involved. (IMHO, your spoon-feeding comment was a good one.) Give him a choice of getting a part time job, doing volunteer work or participating in a sport or other activity that is geared to his present career goal. I say present because the current goal may change over the next couple years. Telling him that one of those things must be done isn't the same as telling him that he will do X and there is no discussion about it.

 

While working on those things help him make plans on accomplishing his new future goals. As opportunities present themselves use them. His socialization issues won't be corrected by being home all the time.

 

Excellent post.

 

You are expecting a 16-year old child to make a decision about something he knows little to nothing about. Why not take some trips to colleges so he can see the difference between a state school (both large and small), a community college, and a private college? At least give the child some tools with which to help him choose what to do. Talk about job options, both part-time and career path.

 

Do not mistake helping and guiding a child for dictating what he should do. You NEED to help and guide. That's your job as a parent, quite frankly.

 

Ria

[Mandy in TN]

My eldest is 16 and will turn 17 at the end of May.

 

He asked me at the beginning of this school year if he could graduate early.

 

Technically, he could (re: credits on the transcript). I told him as much.

 

The thing is, as the year has progressed I've not noticed an improvement in his maturity.

 

I can totally identify. So much of what you said can be said of my oldest ds. Except, the time alone may have more to do with growth- both physically and mentally. Is he sleeping a lot more than this time last year? He may be growing taller and need more time in bed. OTOH- he may be spending time away from the family, because subconsciously he needs that time to figure out who he is and how he sees the world. I don't mean that he wants to figure out about cars, college, and careers. I mean he needs to figure out how he sees the world.

 

A question about graduating: will he have all 4 Language Arts credits- four full grammar, comp, lit credits? If he will loose his insurance in a gap year, then I would claim that he had not finished his LA credits and let him do a very light senior year. This way he will have plenty of time to work or take CC classes.

 

So, it is that my children are not *told*.

 

This reactionary parenting will lead to him one day saying that he was given too many choices and not enough help. Then, he in turn will parent like your parents. Let go of your upbringing. Find balance in your own parenting.

 

Can you imagine him at 25yo talking to you about this period in his life. Will you look at him and say that he made those choices thereby admitting that you were not actually parenting him, but that he was parenting himself? OR at that point are you willing to stand up for your decision and take responsibility for the choices he made at 16yo?

 

From your post it sounds like this child is begging for help. Help him.

Mandy

Edited March 11, 2009 by Mandy in TN

[Kelli in TN]

 

This reactionary parenting will lead to him one day saying that he was given too many choices and not enough help. Then, he in turn will parent like your parents. Let go of your upbringing. Find balance in your own parenting.

 

 

Okay, I have read through the responses now. I really have to agree with what Mandy said here. As a young mother I deliberately parented as opposite my upbringing as I possibly could. (I was raised in a fairly permissive environment and so I parented by micromanaging and very strict discipline)

 

Balance is the key. You have to evaluate your young man and make your parenting choices based on his needs, not the unmet needs of your growing up years.

[Cedarmom]

Maybe the rest of this year and next year could be spent exploring options. What about requiring a senior project where he has to make or do something that shows his interest. What about some career choosing books like "What Color is My Parachute" Also visiting colleges. If he does go to college what might he be interested in. I am having my son look online at the different engineering programs available at our local university. Another idea is interships. Is there something he is really interested in that he could spend more time developing (Im thinking building computer, video making, music etc)

[Tammyla]

Christine, my answer falls somewhere in the middle. ;)

 

I'd offer a graduation date of next December/January BUT only if he had made the necessary plans, taken the tests, completed the work and arranged transportation. If he isn't open to a long discussion, simply let him know what you expect and need to plan yourself. And do give him a deadline. This option would allow some time for maturity.

 

 

fwiw, Looking back on my graduation at 17, I'm not a fan of early graduation.

[Christine]

This is proving to be a perfect example of the necessity of "clarity" in language.

 

 

So, it is that my children are not *told*.

 

They are made aware of their options. They know of the money we have set aside for them (either for college or "life"). They have been told by DH, in no uncertain terms, that *hanging out* at home after grad. is not happening unless they inform us of their plan and we agree.

 

I am quite dismayed and disappointed that I managed to portray myself, and by association, my husband, as the type of parents that would throw their children off on the rapids of life in a raft without paddles. .

 

So, it is that my children are not *told*.

 

By *told* here I meant that our children are not informed that they will be doing "xyz" based on a decision that DH and I made without giving them the benefit of expressing their own ideas / opinions / thoughts. To further express that more clearly: they are not given "orders" as to our expectations in their lives. (Maybe that's only clear to military members?)

 

This reactionary parenting will lead to him one day saying that he was given too many choices and not enough help. Then, he in turn will parent like your parents. Let go of your upbringing. Find balance in your own parenting.

 

ummm, Did you not read this next part? Or maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "help".

 

They are made aware of their options. They know of the money we have set aside for them (either for college or "life"). They have been told by DH, in no uncertain terms, that *hanging out* at home after grad. is not happening unless they inform us of their plan and we agree.

 

Well, this one seemed completely ignored. . .

 

Our children are made very aware of their options. They know the amount of money they have available from us. We have discussed the options of its use. We have compared / contrasted the different outcomes depending on how they choose to use it.

 

We have talked about all the various courses of actions that we are aware of (military, college - of any sort, trade / technical schools / working). We have talked about various part-time jobs that are available in the area.

 

To give a concrete example:

 

DS1 (the one this post is in reference to) has in his grubby paws the driver's "study guide". He has saved for the class that he will need to take upon receiving his permit. He knows how much insurance will cost and has saved for that as well. He has a car!

 

This falls under, in my mind, "you can lead a horse to water. . . ".

 

He has taken standardized tests (though not the SAT and ACT yet) and has aced them. He has taken a skills test that, based on his scores, gives him DOZENS of different fields that he could look into that would match his skill set. (DOZENS is used here to mean more than 12.) As a school assignment I even had him research some of them in the hopes of peaking his interest.

 

**********************

 

I will admit to you at being a bit frustrated in reading post after post essentially accusing me of leaving my kid out to dry, when I felt I was pretty clear that this was not happening; that we had been talking to our child about his options. . .He just chooses not to talk back. This is where I feel I'm seeing a lack of maturity on his part. (Or maybe "motivation" would be a better word).

 

Regardless, you have given me food for thought.

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

I haven't read all the replies thoroughly but I'm thinking that if you were going to wait until he has matured to a certain level you might not be graduating him this side of 30. My dh is entering his eleventh year of study after giving up on the teaching career he thought he wanted and still can't remember to lock the front door at night.

 

When I grew up, the options were post secondary studies of some kind, or get a job- any job. That's what my kids will be expected to do too. If your son is willing to do one or the other, goodo. If not, then he is making the choice to do another year of homeschooling because bumming isn't an option and unemployment is unhealthy. I graduated at 17 too and spent a year and a half on the dole (which didn't go down well with my parents) because I was too young to handle the rest of the world.

 

Rosie

Edited March 11, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[Mandy in TN]

Or maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "help".

By help I mean providing him with the tools necessary to be successful. For example-

If you want him to take the ACT, you register him for it. Since you have the credit card, this is a mommy project.

If you want him to get his license, hop in the car and drive him to the DMV. Since you are his ride to the DMV, this is a mommy project. If he fails this month, I bet he will pass next time. ;)

If you want him to be interested in colleges, go online and have information sent from many, many schools including trade schools and community colleges. Look through it with him when it arrives and help him sort it in an accordion file folder. Since you and dh will be assisting with the financial aspect of this endeavor and he has no other guidance counselor, this is a mommy project.

If you want him to learn to use a graphing calculator, find him a tutor. You will be paying for this, so it is a mommy project.

If you want him to get a job, spend an afternoon driving around getting applications. Have him sit with you and fill them out and then spend the next afternoon returning the applications. In a few days if he has heard nothing, have him call around. After all he has no license, so finding a job is really a mommy project.

Simply saying-

yes you can graduate early OR

here is the drivers’ study guide OR

figure out what you want to do after you graduate OR

here is a calculator figure it out OR

get a job OR EVEN

here are some options and we will back you with this amount of money

is not the same as providing him with the tools he needs to get from point A to point B.

 

Telling him that hanging out at home after graduation is not happening unless he informs you of his plan and you agree to it is bound to be petrifying in light of the fact that he has no clue what to do. I am guessing that you want him to be excited about these things and demanding that you take care of them, but the reality is that many kids are more confused than excited... and ultimately whether he is excited or not these are mommy projects.

If you have already decided that he is not ready to graduate and that it will be in his best interest to spend another year at home, then tell him so. Ultimately you are the parent and he is under 18. He is your responsibility. Either way you will have to deal with the consequences and therefore you have the final vote.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Danestress]

Your list of "Mommy projects" just really goes against the way I raised my children to be independent. I can't imagine filling out job applications with a 16 year old or writing to college for him. In my house, those were most definitely not "Mommy projects." Mommy reminded her son that she already finished high school and got her first job and applied to college etc, and she didn't find those things particularly fun the first time, and she's not doing them again.

 

Mine seemed to manage to do all those things without Mommy sitting next to him holding his hand.

 

But I do agree that it's important for parents to meet their children where they are. I wouldn't do all those things for a son. No way. But I would try very hard to open up conversation with him about things he would like to do. I can pretty much guess that this child is confused and scared and sort of lost about where he's going in the world.

 

I think he needs a mentor more than a hovering Mommy. He needs someone to really help him generate ideas, sort out issues, and reassure him that he can do many many interesting things in the world and that there are people who will support him in pursuing those things. But he doesn't need a secretary to do it for him. If anything, that reinforces the message, "You aren't capable of conducting basic adult functions like writing to college or applying for job." To me, much better to ASK what help he really needs and to reassure him that he can totally do it.

 

I would definitely hire a math tutor, give him my credit card info to register for the exam, and drive him to the DMV when he's ready to go. But HE would have to instigate that.

[Parrothead]

For example, he has yet to do anything about getting his driver's license. Not something I'd be too concerned about, but if he wants to go to college or work, he needs a way to get there. (And I don't care to play chaufeur.)

 

 

 

To give a concrete example:

 

DS1 (the one this post is in reference to) has in his grubby paws the driver's "study guide". He has saved for the class that he will need to take upon receiving his permit. He knows how much insurance will cost and has saved for that as well. He has a car!

 

This falls under, in my mind, "you can lead a horse to water. . . ".

 

 

In my mind these are two totally different examples. In the first you stated he isn't doing anything to get his DL, but in the second you list that he has the study guide, and money saved up for the eventual license and car and insurance.

 

Your second example tells me that he is doing something about getting his DL.

 

What exactly do you want him to do about the DL? Does he know what you want him to do?

 

I think examples like this are why a lot of us are confused about what you are saying in your first post about your ds.

[kalanamak]

Maybe you could outline a lists of things that he needs to complete to graduate.

 

:iagree: Drivers license would be one. I find this odd. When I was a teen, everyone clamored to get their license. You could also say that if you graduate early, you can go to comm. college and/or work and pay some food bills. Unless a child had some extreme gift, like music, I'd be happier if my 16 year old didn't have everything all mapped out. I'd rather he learned something of the world, and then started, rather than slogging through 3 years of school only to find they liked the subject but not the jobs in their field (or there were no jobs). I married the guy who marched right through doing all the good and proper things his parents dreamed of, and then he had a mid-life crisis young....at 33.

[Mandy in TN]

To me, much better to ASK what help he really needs and to reassure him that he can totally do it.

 

I would definitely hire a math tutor, give him my credit card info to register for the exam, and drive him to the DMV when he's ready to go. But HE would have to instigate that.

 

If my children were in a public high school, there would be a guidance counselor's office that would have tons of information packets from various colleges, schools, community colleges, etc. I think it is not only totally appropriate, but my responsibility as their guidance counselor to either drive my children to college fairs or go to websites and assist in having various information from different institutions sent to our home. I did both. When this mommy signed on to homeschool high school, she understood that meant taking on the role of guidance counselor. I know my mom didn’t help me find colleges, apply to colleges, or find letters of recommendation, but my guidance counselor sure did.

If you have a child who has his heart set on attending the state university down the road or going to the same college that their cousin or you attended or if you are fortunate enough to have a child that is very self-motivated and excited about moving to the next phase of his life, this may not be necessary. However, if you have a dc who has no idea what he wants to do and no idea where to begin and you choose to do nothing, don’t expect the child to do anything either.

Obviously, a child who doesn’t have a clue what he wants has no idea what help he needs. Just say in an upbeat way that you are putting on your guidance counselor hat and just like in a traditional classroom it is now time to look at colleges. Go through the search engine at collegeboard and see what pops up.

I sat with my ds and we went to the collegeboard website and I walked him through the college search engine. We discussed each choice. Some of the things I had him check, like retention rates, he never would have known to do on his own. As a side note, my son’s desire for guaranteed dorms/ all-male dorms for freshmen really reduced his list of colleges. The options also gave him very specific things to think about and discuss. When we finished, he was able to look at the college websites from the list that was generated. All the college websites we visited had a place where you could type in your physical address and be snail-mailed information. In this day and age, you don’t actually write to colleges.

We did this prior to the college fair. This way there was a list of colleges to “visit†once there.

When my oldest filled out his first job application, he needed help. He didn’t know when I wanted him to work. And, yes, he needed to ask, because I was going to be the one driving him. Even if he had had a license I would have needed to drive him, because we don’t have an extra vehicle. Also, I remember that he didn’t know what to write when they asked for desired salary. There were several things like that where he needed to ask for my help. Did I sit down with him while he filled it out? No, but I made myself available because I was fairly certain that he would need help. I also drove him around to pick up/ drop off applications, because where we live there is nothing within walking distance.

Also, I don’t even typically carry a credit card, so I am sure as heck not handing one to my son. He can fill out all the information, but he is going to have to call me in to enter the credit card. Frankly, prior to using the credit card I ask my husband. He is the keeper of the bills. I know that handing a credit card to a teenager is something he would never permit. So, ds and I can discuss the ACT. Ds can fill out the information, but ultimately dh must o.k. the use of the credit card. There is no way for my ds to register for the ACT alone. It must be nice to have the kind of money where you feel you can just hand a credit card to your teenagers, but it’s not going to happen here.

 

I certainly understand wanting the child to instigate all these activities, but some children just won't.

Mandy

[Christine]

Fair enough

In my mind these are two totally different examples. In the first you stated he isn't doing anything to get his DL, but in the second you list that he has the study guide, and money saved up for the eventual license and car and insurance.

 

Your second example tells me that he is doing something about getting his DL.

 

DS1 has had the money available in his account for over 2 years. It was not saved specifically for driving -- in fact, it originally started being saved for a game that, by the time he had enough, became obsolete (or he became disinterested).

 

I got him the driver's study guide as a bit of a "push". . .or so he would be lacking an excuse. i.e. "Mom, I don't have the study guide, so I can't take the test."

 

The car, well-used, was given to him this past year by grandparents.

 

Therefore, as you can see, he hasn't actually DONE anything to prepare. . .it all just neatly fell into place and he's doing nothing with it.

 

What exactly do you want him to do about the DL? Does he know what you want him to do?

 

Well, generally, I expect him to study for and then take and pass the written exam. Then, of course, he will have to take the state mandated driver's course. Eventually, before the permit expires, I would expect him to take and pass the driving test.

 

And yes, he is completely aware of the process we expect him to go through, the money / time he has to put forth and the money / time we are willing to help out with.

[Danestress]

I think every family has to figure out what works for them. In my household, people who are almost adults have to ACT like adults. I was really worried as my son entered his senior year in high school, because he did seem awfully unmotivated and sometimes just flat lazy (about academic matters - he was pretty good about paid work). But I just told him that I felt like if I handled the application process for him, that might get him into a better college but then once in college, who was going to hold his hand and push him? No one, that's who. So I told him that the college application process partly exists to weed out kids who really aren't going to take responsibility for themselves and therefore are may not good college candidates.

 

In my son's world, everyone goes to college. I doubt he had any friends who didn't go to college and probably few friends whose parents didn't go to college. He really had no serious plan for anything other than college, and so I felt that even if he dropped the ball and didn't get the applications in, that would be a major wakeup call and then maybe the next year he would take it more seriously. But he DID step up to the plate and get it done.

 

Maybe I would have handled it differently with a different child. I am not saying that there is only one right way to handle it. I just found it irritating that you were telling the OP that there was only one right way for HER to handle it.

[Sandy in Indy]

The suggestion of graduating him in Dec. is a good one, IMHO. There's a lot on the list for him to be able to successfully get a license, get a job and get in to school (or whatever it is he wants to do). Find some kind of project that he can complete as a senior project. That will give him some time to mature and complete some of the things on your list.

[Mandy in TN]

Well, generally, I expect him to study for and then take and pass the written exam. Then, of course, he will have to take the state mandated driver's course. Eventually, before the permit expires, I would expect him to take and pass the driving test.

 

I did not get my license until I was a sophomore in college. With me I simply didn't see the need. When I needed a license, I went and got one.

 

Oldest ds is 17yo and although he has his permit he does not have his license yet. With oldest ds we asked him if he wanted us to give him drivers' ed classes for his 17th birthday. He said that he would like that. At the end of the class he took and passed the permit test without a problem.

 

Last summer I saw an ad on a local homeschool forum for a high school math tutor. It was an ad from a man who teaches geometry/ alg2 at one of the inner city schools. The ad said that he had 4 tutoring openings for new students beginning in the fall. I called ds in, had him read the ad, and asked if he would like to do that. He said that he wanted to go. I responded to the forum post.

 

Ds had received his ACT approved graphing calculator for Christmas and never figured it out. He had even watched some of the TC Alg1 videos where she uses a calculator. These calculators are not intuitive like a PC interface. Alas, he took the ACT without a clue of how to use it. This tutor taught him how to use the calculator.

 

Ds didn't instigate either of these activities. I don't even know if he knew about drivers' ed classes, because he doesn't have any friends or family who took them. He never would have seen the ad for the math tutor, because he doesn't frequent homeschool forums.

 

Explaining and offering options is a positive thing.

HTH-

Mandy

 

[Mandy in TN]

The saying in our home goes- almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. :D While ds is on the path to adulthood he is coached and guided and certainly not expected to be an adult. Anyway, even adults can use guidance when beginning a new task. I am also of the opinion that if you don't like the way something is going that you personally have the power to change, then change it.

While I do expect ds to do what I know he can do, I would never expect him to do alone something about which he has no clue. What others may be willing to leave to chance, I am not. Modeling how to do something isn't the same thing as telling a child that he is not capable of conducting basic adult functions. If you don't help your dc navigate the many, many options available after graduation then chances are, he will just do what everyone else he knows is doing. Someone will be modeling for him. It just won't be you.

Except that he can't do it alone because I need to approve the college and pay the application fee, simply going to a website and filling in a college application is no big deal. I expect more. I need to fill out the FAFSA. Ds can't do that. I need to make sure that he has left no financial aid stone unturned. There is no money here. Even if he does part of it, I will check on everything. Not because he is incompetent, but because two heads are better than one.

As a side note, my dh is an adult and I acquired, coached, and filled out all of his immigration paper work- everything. We didn't use an attorney. I knew that we didn't need one. I certainly wasn’t implying that dh was in any way not an adult and we certainly needed to work together. However, as previously noted two heads are better than one.

Mandy- who is feeling criticized after being told that I am telling my teenager that he is incapable of conducting basic adult functions :001_huh:

[Parrothead]

Fair enough

 

 

DS1 has had the money available in his account for over 2 years. It was not saved specifically for driving -- in fact, it originally started being saved for a game that, by the time he had enough, became obsolete (or he became disinterested).

 

I got him the driver's study guide as a bit of a "push". . .or so he would be lacking an excuse. i.e. "Mom, I don't have the study guide, so I can't take the test."

 

The car, well-used, was given to him this past year by grandparents.

 

Therefore, as you can see, he hasn't actually DONE anything to prepare. . .it all just neatly fell into place and he's doing nothing with it.

 

 

 

Well, generally, I expect him to study for and then take and pass the written exam. Then, of course, he will have to take the state mandated driver's course. Eventually, before the permit expires, I would expect him to take and pass the driving test.

 

And yes, he is completely aware of the process we expect him to go through, the money / time he has to put forth and the money / time we are willing to help out with.

 

Do you think it would help if you gave him a deadline for having this done. Learning to work on a deadline is something that most adults have to deal with.

[Ellie]

I would graduate him.

 

If he were in school and had earned all his credits, he would graduate. He shouldn't be penalized because he's hsed.

[Ria]

Mandy- who is feeling criticized after being told that I am telling my teenager that he is incapable of conducting basic adult functions

 

I knew what you were saying, and I agree in large part.

:grouphug:

 

Ria

[Christine]

DH and I offered 3 (+) options to DS1 to consider and tell us of his decision by 15 Apr. (He technically needs 1 more English credit to graduate, so he isn't going to graduate.)

• he can dual enroll in college next semester (this had been my expectation originally and why "graduation" was even on the table)
  
• he can go to public school for his senior year
  
• he can homeschool next year
  

The last two options, in our minds, are the least ideal for many reasons. Yet, it would give him the opportunity to mature.

 

The first two would expose him to "the outside world" more than he's currently getting and hopefully spur him on to "get a life". :tongue_smilie:

 

Should he choose the last option (homeschooling). . .well, I have some "coursework" in mind that will push him outside of his comfort zone.

 

He is currently very upset with us, as we started out with option #1 (college) and he started fussing that he couldn't believe we were "forcing college" upon him. . .until he discovered that we were actually giving him 3 options. (He's even received the opportunity to come up with other options and discuss them with us by 15 Apr). So, now he's peeved that the decision of this point in his life rests squarely upon his shoulders. (I am not deluding myself though, should he not like his decision, that the "blame game" will be played for giving him the option rather than just telling him what to do.)

 

If nothing else it will be an excellent lesson in taken, or lost, opportunities and the consequences of those choices. (Well, it will be when he's mature enough to recognize it.)