mrsdrcook Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 My DD5 is having daily "accidents" so I took her to the pediatritian because we don't know what to do anymore. We've been working on potty training for almost 4 years now with only short term success. The pediatritian has referred us to a pediatric urologist whom he says has a good "bladder training program". Is anyone familiar with this? Our fear is that this is going to be a wasted visit because the problem is more likely attitudinal than physiological. She is a strong willed, drama queen and the oldest of soon to be 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I have known two different children struggle through bladder control issues. Please, please, please do not make the assumption that this is an attitude problem. Get her checked by a qualified pediatric urologist. If she has a legitimate physical issue, then all the attitude and character training in the world will only exacerbate the issue. You will end up with a much, much bigger problem. Let the doctor evaluate her. Only a good evaluation by a specialist can tell you what type of retraining or other help she may need. Trying to decide if the treatment fits without evaluating the problem properly is senseless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsdrcook Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoyfulMama Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Any good counselor would tell you that you need to rule out the physical before treating for a mental/psychological/attitude issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) Any good counselor would tell you that you need to rule out the physical before treating for a mental/psychological/attitude issue. Indeed. There would be more harm in approaching this as an attitude if it is physiological, than the temporary discomfort of the evaluation. Edited February 14, 2009 by MyCrazyHouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 My DD5 is having daily "accidents" so I took her to the pediatritian because we don't know what to do anymore. We've been working on potty training for almost 4 years now with only short term success. The pediatritian has referred us to a pediatric urologist whom he says has a good "bladder training program". Is anyone familiar with this? Our fear is that this is going to be a wasted visit because the problem is more likely attitudinal than physiological. She is a strong willed, drama queen and the oldest of soon to be 4. I agree with the others that ruling out physical causes before assuming that it's her attitude is wise. You just never know. It's possible that she's strong willed AND has a physical issue. The thing that occurs to me looking at the dates of your kids... She's had a lot going on in her young life. It appears that your second child passed away when she was 3. I don't know if he was ill and if there was stress from that during the time you were potty training. Obviously I don't know ANYTHING about the situation, so please understand I'm only wondering about possible links between her potty training issues and potential negative associations. My three are each 19 months apart and like 3 peas in a pod. If I lost my middle...or any... It would absolutely devastate the other kids. It's a lot to deal with. Then it looks like your third child arrived shortly after the passing of your second. Again, that's a lot to deal with and if she was attempting to potty train during a sibling illness and the birth of a new baby, I imagine it would interfere quite a bit. Birth of a new baby alone is notorious for regression in potty training. My point is that even if you don't find a physical cause, I wouldn't necessarily assume that the cause is purely one of strong will. She might have negative associations or it might be attention seeking behavior or it may just be the fact that she has a sister in diapers and another baby on the way. I look at my oldest sometimes and think how hard it is sometimes for him to act like a big boy when he's got a younger brother and sister. I think it's hard sometimes to grow up first, with all those expectations for you and only you. Also, I don't know you and how patient you have been with your responses, starting with the first accidents. I see that you say you've been potty training for almost 3 years and it would appear that you started when she was barely two. Some kids just aren't ready then. Again, I don't know ANY details so please don't take my thoughts as judgement. I just wanted to offer a potential perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 There seems to be a post about this issue once a month or so...see if you can find past threads. Lots of good advice....and lots of people saying this is common for 4-6 year olds. I would have to disagree that any child would want to be "wet" on purpose, ie attitude. Who would want to have to go through the scolding, or whatever happens in your own home, the clothes changing, the "stop what you are doing so we can deal with this" and the embarrasment. What could she possibly be gaining by doing this on purpose? Bladder training??? That makes me laugh. Seems unlikely. I always recommend chiropractic care. I have said it past threads, and will say it again. The spine sends out the messages. If the spine is out of whack, and certain nerve endings are "pinched" the message may not be getting there as quickly as it needs to. Ie, dribbling, night wetting, etc. Leaking before mind realizes bladder was full. Children's spines are almost always out of whack, sometimes minor, sometimes major, just because of the way they live, fall, tumble, etc. If your insurance covers Chiropractic care, find one that sees children, (lots do), and talk him/her about her issues. At the least, it will be much less invasive that a special doctor, and it you feel it didn't help, then you can go the route of a specialist. I speak from experience. My own son (age 5) constantly dribbled, even sometimes full-on wet, and almost every single night wet the bed, no matter if we limited waters, used bathroom before bed, etc. The day issues were so aggravating. It was almost like he didn't even realize it. I would see it and say "Ooooh, son, did you pee?", and he would look down and be like "uh, I guess I did". It flabbergasted me why he acted like he didn't even know, and I would sometimes think that was all an act. But I couldn't see a child that age being THAT good of a actor. Starting see a Chiropractor weekly and within a month or so, no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usetoschool Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Had a similar problem with of my kids, my sister did with one of hers also. The advice we both got from different ped's was that the hormone that controls bladder function and other physiological stuff doesn't completely mature until 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 We thought her regular accidents were attitude-related as well, because she would act sassy/defiant whenever she had one. She can be a major drama queen. As it turns out, both the bladder issues AND the attitude stemmed from a food sensitivity, in her case to corn. I would never have thought of an allergy/sensitivity being the cause if two friends hadn't mentioned it in a casual conversation. One of them had a dd who had behavior issues whenever she ate corn (or corn-derived products) and the other had a son with bedwetting issues related to corn. We started paying attention to D's eating related to her bladder problems, and found that it was also related to corn in her case (it could be any food, though, not necessarily corn). Now that she's off of corn, her behavior has improved by a lot. And we can usually tell when something corn-derived has sneaked past our radar by her behavior (and the laundry hamper :tongue_smilie:). I just thought I'd share this in case it helps you. This is a very frustrating issue; I'm so sorry you're having to deal with it. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 both my kids have potty issues. my ds, 7, wets a lot at night, and has accidents from time to time in what seems to be him waiting too long to get to the bathroom when he's in engaged in something fun ;-) my dd, 5.5, has days of constant accidents but then months with none. the dr basically told me to have them go bathroom(sitting 3-5min) every 90 minutes with me supervising. um, yeah. I wasn't thrilled, the kids were less so. It lasted a day and no day accidents since then ;-) bedwettingstore.com has a watch that reminds them to go whenever you set it to. we are going to get that for my kids and put some of the responsibility on them. I have strong willed kids, but looking at your kids' ages I would be surprised your dd is purposely peeing on herself and don't think your statement is fair to her. Like I said, some days my dd pees in her pants 6 times! and she cries everytime. she also is becoming a liar in her efforts to go change before I notice. Take your dd to the dr.....try the timed bathroom schedule. A lot of kids have this problem....don't make it about her strong willed behavior as you claim but perhaps it's physical and she needs your help in being reminded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 a timed program? Like others have mentioned? My 5 1/2 year old has a lot of accidents. I decided it was physical because: 1. She cannot stay dry overnight. She wants to. She limits liquids. Goes right before bedtime. She wakes up wet. So, "something" isn't developed yet. 2. She has acted truly surprised when I had her try, before we left on errands and she could actually go. "But, I really didn't feel like I needed to go." So, I think she was either desensitized to the feeling or hadn't completely matured. Our general rule now is just that everyone tries to go potty before we leave the house. Things are gradually getting better. Night training is no where in sight, but daytime is doing better. She still ends up changing her clothes maybe once a day. I don't make a big deal. She's responsible for changing herself and getting her wet clothes in the hamper or in the tub. I'll probably ask the ped again at her 6 year old checkup, but I think she's just late to mature in that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 We are working on this right now with our 5 yo dd. She has had quite a few kidney and bladder infections in the past. She had a physical problem with her ureters that was corrected by surgery last year. She also holds her urine. The urologist thinks this is the source of the infections. She honestly does not feel the urge to urinate. We have her go every two hours. When we started she would fight us and say she didn't have to go. As soon as she went to the bathroom though she would realize, "Oh, I guess I did have to go!" Hopefully this will get rid of her repeated infections! Only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaik76 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 both my kids have potty issues. my ds, 7, wets a lot at night, and has accidents from time to time in what seems to be him waiting too long to get to the bathroom when he's in engaged in something fun ;-) my dd, 5.5, has days of constant accidents but then months with none. the dr basically told me to have them go bathroom(sitting 3-5min) every 90 minutes with me supervising. um, yeah. I wasn't thrilled, the kids were less so. It lasted a day and no day accidents since then ;-) bedwettingstore.com has a watch that reminds them to go whenever you set it to. we are going to get that for my kids and put some of the responsibility on them. I have strong willed kids, but looking at your kids' ages I would be surprised your dd is purposely peeing on herself and don't think your statement is fair to her. Like I said, some days my dd pees in her pants 6 times! and she cries everytime. she also is becoming a liar in her efforts to go change before I notice. Take your dd to the dr.....try the timed bathroom schedule. A lot of kids have this problem....don't make it about her strong willed behavior as you claim but perhaps it's physical and she needs your help in being reminded. Our dr. had us take our son to the bathroom every thirty minutes. It helped immensely (we explained to him that it was not a punishment...we were just helping to retrain his bladder). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 yes, see the urologist. The tests are often very simple and non invasive. Both of my girls are on meds for bladder issues and were dry day and night within a few days of starting them. It could be: structural spastic bladder constipation food allergy/intolerance sensory things low grade infection or a host of other issues. Hopefully the doctor can help you out. Only rarely will a child wet on purpose--like in children with severe emotional impairments, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 One of my sons was still having accidents when he was five. He was just late maturing and things sorted themselves out over the following year. Night training took longer. You may find that a doctor can help you, but you might just need a little time. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 At that age, my dd was having daily accidents. Turned out to be chronic UTIs and chronic constipation. I took went down the "attitude" road and caused dd lots of pains and stress (to my shame and regret) before I got her to the doctor. Treating both issues caused the accidents to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I had one who would hold too long because she didn't want to stop what she was doing to take time to use the bathroom. She didn't have full blown accidents, usually, but just partial ones. It lasted until she was around 6. We didn't do bladder training. But there can be physiological reasons for this, and I wouldn't assume it's attitude. I knew what it was for my dd because of what she said. She also taught my ds to hold too long a full year after he was day trained (I know because I heard her tell him to just hold it in and keep playing ;)). This is all in our past now, thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsdrcook Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 We will have it checked out, but it is encouraging to know we are not the only ones going through this. Originally we thought it was partly due to life stresses (loosing an almost 2yo brother in 07 and new babies born in 07 and now another next month) but now are not sure. Will wait to hear what the "experts" have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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