Julpost Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I understand that some of this might be hormonally driven but I think she might be a bit over the top as well. I need some advice. She goes absolutely bonkers over something every single day. Yesterday, she didn't like the fact that I was asking her to start correcting her math herself. I couldn't believe the tears and tantrums over that! The day before, it was the fact that she didn't want to do this kids exercise DVD that I had bought. She feels fat and doesn't like how everyone else looks so fit in the video. Today, well, actually I can't even remember what set her off. I feel so traumatized, the whole house is silent because I think everyone is kind of freaked out by her yelling. She ended up shouting in my face that she hates me, I'm the worst mother ever, etc. etc. It's just awful. I try not to respond, I just reiterate that she needs to do whatever it was...I had her go outside and do some chores, she came in still raging, so I told her to do some shoveling. She absolutely refused!! I kept calm but increasing the consequences if she was going to continally refuse. She ended up losing her whole money log (over $100), all of her books in her room, and she's grounded. She is finally quiet and standing in a corner but once in awhile I'll hear a cupboard door slam. Losing $ out of her money log used to work, she'd some how find the ability to control herself when it came down to losing money. But that didn't work this time. Then when she hears the consequences, she just gets even madder. I know all of these consequences are ridiculous, but I don't know what else to do, other than ramping up the consequences. She can't just do this. I truly believe she has the ability to control herself. She has done it before. She gets worse and worse each time and it is making all of us crazy. I honestly believe what she needs is a good old-fashioned paddling!!!! If we lived in the days of taking the kids out behind the shed, I think this wouldn't be an issue. Now, other than this, she is an absolutely amazing child. She's like Dr.Jekyll and Mr. Hyde....people would never imagine she could be like this once in awhile. I can't even believe it sometimes. But what else can I do? She can't just refuse to do things and throw these tantrums....I'm just at a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Stand your ground and stick to the consequences. Ten is right on the edge for me for a spanking or not, but I don't know if it would even work with her - just make her angrier and humiliated. In my house temper tantrums and yelling are not allowed. If she must throw a fit, it has to be done in her room and she can come out when she apologizes. Luckily I haven't had to deal with one since she was 2. Talk to her again, and again if necessary, about appropriate behavior when she is calm. Let her know that you know things are changing for her, but a calm and content household is a must. She can't be allowed to terrorize you and the rest of the kids. When she feels that she is becoming out of control she can go to her room and calm herself down. If that doesn't happen and a repeat of the last few days occurs then more consequences will be piled on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHGrandma Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'd suggest calling the doctor for drugs. And after that, maybe he'd prescribe something for her, too.:001_smile: Seriously though, you may need to call in some outside help on this one if it's escalating, and I really didn't mean drugs as the first thing to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm right there with you -- both of my dds, although younger than yours, are highly emotional in different ways. I do agree you need to keep enforcing a no-tolerance policy for tantrums, however, have you also tried something like reading one of the following books with her: http://www.amazon.com/What-When-Your-Temper-Flares/dp/1433801345/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232726272&sr=8-1 or this: http://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Grumble-Much/dp/1591474507/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232726272&sr=8-2 and then going over the exercises together? We are going through the second book together right now. I like that it teaches the power of positive thinking to kids in a really accessible and age appropriate way. I also think that when we read the book and talk about it together, the message comes across in a less threatening way than if I just talked to them about the content, i.e., it's less of a lecture and more of a family learning experience, so my dds are more open to hearing and really applying the techniques. These books are meant for kids about 6-12 years of age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm willing to bet it is a hormonal issue. My middle dd started acting out at 10 (started puberty at 9.5). She would get emotional (even violent) at some of the SILLIEST things--especially if I asked/told her to do something. We tried all sorts of discipline techniques...and they all FAILED. Finally a good friend suggest that we take her to the Dr--NOT her regular pediatrician but to a Dr that specialized in hormone imbalances. This Dr took one look at dd--listened to her story and suggest we run a $20 blood test. Sure enough dd's thyroid was not working properly. It is amazing how much change we saw after dd started taking one little pill. Puberty brings on all sorts of hormonal imbalances--MOST of the time the child is able to work through them--sometimes they needs some support. Some problems they will grow out of--some (like my dd's) will require medication her whole life. Dr said most likely dd's thyroid was never working properly--but until puberty she was able to adjust/adapt. When puberty created more 'demands' from her thyroid her body just could not keep up. All the discipline in the world would not have helped my dd. My Dad swears that dd would have been much better if we could/would have spanked her every time she acted out--he still insists that her problem was due to poor parenting. sigh... I'm not saying to let go of any discipline--but rather I'm suggesting that you look into additional causes. Hugs to you--this is a tough place to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usetoschool Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 When she is in that state no amount of threatening consequences is going to connect with her brain. The only time to talk is when she is calm. Until then she needs to go to her room. She is old enough to understand she is free to feel whatever she wants about things but she cannot inflict that on other people. Explain the consequences when she is calm and stick to the go to your room or wherever when she reacts badly to something. The two of you will have to decide where the line is and when she crosses it. A reminder that you are her ally, on her side, and a little validation and sympathy is helpful. You said she is basically a great girl - hang on to that and assume the best, your attitude will go a long way towards diffusing the situation. I have a daughter who has had temper issues since she was born - just her personality and 'cross to bear' so to speak. In the midst of a "mad" she really can't control herself so it is no use trying to teach her anything at that point. It is a good idea to lay a good relationship foundation now because hormones will make it worse. But, hey, by the time they are 20 they are fabulous friends again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I have an awful, terrible temper. Still. I'm 42. Watch the Anne of Green Gables movie & read the books. Anne was written for folks like us. I have yet to break something over someone's head, but I have broken things. This can be a hormone thing, it can be a sensitivity thing, but I think it's mostly a passionate personality thing. You can learn to live with it and you can learn to control it but it's not easy. I think adding punishment to the equation makes things worse. There's usually some self awareness of being over the top - I know when I'm over the top, but I just can't always stop. No matter how silly I know I'm being. When I lose it, I run up and down stairs, stomping hard, over and over and over. I do slam doors, usually just once. I run outside and dig or whack things with a hoe like crazy. If I had a punching bag I'd beat it. I sometimes punch pillows though usually I just put my face in them & give huge war yells. Then I drink a glass of water. If I have rescue remedy, I'll take it. And then I carry on. If you read Gordon Neufeld's work he talks a lot about how the way to release it is to shift from mad to sad. The underlying emotion is inevitably huge frustration (with ourselves, the world etc.) and what really helps is to be SAD about it & to have a good cry. I like Holly Cole on this: http://www.lyricsdownload.com/holly-cole-trio-cry-if-you-want-to-lyrics.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O078AVSa-cg That's my view. It's not pathology. It's life. As you mature, you do learn to cope with things better but there are still days....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 When a child is spiralling out of control and the parent starts upping the "consequences" ante, it's just fuel on a fire, in my book. I would remove myself from the situation. "I am not going to talk to you about this right now." If you are asking her to do work and she flat refuses. Okay, she refused. I would say, "Is that your final answer?" and then leave her to stew in her juices. Later, you can impose a consequence. But standing over her heaping punishment on punishment just escalates. I used to tell my son, "If you are trying to demonstrate that I can't make you do something, you win. I can't make you. No need to prove it because I already know that. But what I can do is make you regret not following my rules and doing what I ask you to do." Later, after the fire has burned down a little, there is always an opportunity to impose a reasonable, well thought punishment. You just have to practice delayed gratification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria/ME Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I agree wholeheartedly with what jcooperetc and danestress have said...remove self from situation...but with love...I find that when my dd(going on 11) has full blown tantrums she needs to know the boundaries yet with a clear indication that I am on her side. For example: "I know you are upset and hurt right now, but this isn't acceptable for anyone to act this way...you need to go to your room." or "I love you and want to help you, but we need some space for a moment." All delivered calmly. A challenge for me as I tend to take her tantrums personally. Also the books that were mentioned in the What To Do When...series were a GREAT help to my dd with some anxieties she had..so I'm willing to bet the series as a whole are helpful...it kinda makes the issue not about HER but about all kids who are struggling and makes the parent/child relationship about teamwork instead of for or against, kwim? Hang in there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria/ME Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I have an awful, terrible temper. Still. I'm 42. This can be a hormone thing, it can be a sensitivity thing, but I think it's mostly a passionate personality thing. You can learn to live with it and you can learn to control it but it's not easy. I think adding punishment to the equation makes things worse. There's usually some self awareness of being over the top - I know when I'm over the top, but I just can't always stop. No matter how silly I know I'm being. When I lose it, I run up and down stairs, stomping hard, over and over and over. I do slam doors, usually just once. I run outside and dig or whack things with a hoe like crazy. If I had a punching bag I'd beat it. I sometimes punch pillows though usually I just put my face in them & give huge war yells. Then I drink a glass of water. If I have rescue remedy, I'll take it. And then I carry on. If you read Gordon Neufeld's work he talks a lot about how the way to release it is to shift from mad to sad. The underlying emotion is inevitably huge frustration (with ourselves, the world etc.) and what really helps is to be SAD about it & to have a good cry. That's my view. It's not pathology. It's life. As you mature, you do learn to cope with things better but there are still days....... Wow. I'm keeping this post to read over and over for ME. What you said about Sad underlying the Mad really rings true...often when I am so incredibly angry and can't understand it myself, I find that it's just bottled up frustration and sadness....love the way you expressed this...thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I agree with getting a physical and some basic blood work--esp. thyroid. A lot of this sounds like my dd with bipolar. It is like hormones totally over the top. This is likely not what you are dealing with but you can check out http://www.bpkids.org for more information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Nobody warned us about pre-adolescent hormones. My oldest used to crawl under a very low to the ground bed and scream and cry that she wanted to die. :confused: I wish I had taken her to the doctor to get help. I'm surprised that we all survived her pre-adolescent years. :001_huh: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I don't think what you are describing is normal, and I don't like to blame things like this on hormones. I'd be sure to take your dd to a doc as soon as possible and have some basic testing done. Make sure there's nothing physical causing this behavior issue. Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Even if it is hormonal, children need to learn self-control. They need to learn that life is not all about how they are feeling--the rest of your kids also need to see you handle this in a way that makes them feel safe and not angry at their sister for causing such a disturbance. Yes, I'd take her to the Dr, but I don't expect her hormones are unusually active. Sounds like she's gotten away with being over the top for a while and has developed the habit of letting loose without consideration for anyone else. I would remove her to her room and not let her out until she's done with the tantrum, then talk about her behavior with her. I'd enforce the room grounding each time--do it right away when she starts the tantrum, as in the minute she is unacceptable--and draw a pretty tight line with that, so she can relearn what is socially acceptable. In other words, stop her before it ramps up, perhaps when it's just at the pouty, complainy stage, or whatever comes first--if she just explodes without warning, look closer, because I bet she's feeling frustrated before that. Check her foods, too. But again, even if there is an underlying cause, the issue is learning to deal with feelings, no matter what causes those feelings. She's ten, and those feelings are going to intensify. She needs to learn now, so that when she's pms-ing, she feels capable of coping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlockOfSillies Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
always cookin' Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 She has always been a very difficult child. She has major anger control issues. I have tried to talk to the pediatrician many times and she tells me that it is her personality and gives me a few suggestions. Her behavior (outbursts, throwing things) disrupts and upsets the entire household. I am going to try a new doctor and request testing/counseling for her. However, what I find strange is that lately, when I try to talk about this to a friend (any friend, not one in particular), I seem to be getting a lot of, "Well, my daughter..." What I hear is usually worse than what I am experiencing. I really think there are a lot of daughters acting this way. I don't know why. I do agree that they need to learn to control their emotions. I plan on purchasing the anger control book that was recommended and trying again with the doctor and a counselor. I have 3 other children. She is the only one who behaves this way. We do send her to her room. Getting her there is the problem. At this point, I do not ask her to do much so that it does not ruin the day for everyone else in the house. If I cannot get control of this situation, she will have to go to school. It is not easy to get help though. I do not think it is hormonal. She has always been this way. My dh and I have really been working on remaining calm during her outbursts. We have learned many things that don't work (punishments, threats, yelling, etc). It is a constant struggle. It does seem to come in waves though. It will get better and then worse again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I do not think it is hormonal. She has always been this way. My dh and I have really been working on remaining calm during her outbursts. We have learned many things that don't work (punishments, threats, yelling, etc). It is a constant struggle. It does seem to come in waves though. It will get better and then worse again. Yes, this describes our experience with our younger dd 5.5 to a "T". She has always been this way -- not hormonal -- just her personality. I used to hope she would grow out of it at some point, but I've given that up. Now, we try to focus on making sure she is familiar with the cognitive-behavioral tools to handle her negativity and anger. Like you said, it comes in waves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 (edited) My social group has a lot of good suggestions with parents in the same shoes: Raising Godly Tomatoes Gillian McKeith goes on about how nutrition effects our moods in You are what you eat. It is on BBC America and has a website. It has helped my behavior tremendously. Vit D and Fish Oil have really improved my DDs mood. I have also discovered that she needs 12 hours of sleep. Another change for the better. With the age of your DD I'd be willing to bet she needs a lot of sleep for growth spurts. Our 9 year old friend that we babysit has these mood swings related to growth, sleep and nutrition. Her mom warned me ahead of time. It is very difficult to get her to eat anything some times, and then wham! she is insatiable (sorry, my comp won't do the spellcheck). Edited January 24, 2009 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Child with Behavioral issues? You might check this out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 :iagree: I always make sure my 5.5 dd gets plenty of rest -- 12 hours at night and a nap on weekends, even when she insists she doesn't need one. (She's usually zonked out after about 10 mins):) I also find that she needs protein to help with her mood swings. We always have her favorite nuts (almonds) on hand just for a quick fix if she needs it. Don't know if this will help the OP -- but this is just our experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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