Rising 6th grade math advice needed

[WhitneyS]

I’m trying to choose a new math for my daughter. This year is our first year homeschooling, prior to this my girls were at a private school that used ABeka, to give background. 

After much research, my daughter and I chose Apologia last year. I loved the idea of hands on projects each lesson and my daughter was excited to try it. After using it, it isn’t a great fit. My daughter hates the hands on projects, I’ve had to supplement math fact drills as she was struggling with previously memorized facts and yesterday she told me she would really like a program with more review, as she feels like she’s forgetting how to do things. 

She is an average math student, who likes math but doesn’t pick up on it intuitively. I struggled in math and am not confident in my ability to teach upper levels, so I would like to pick a curriculum for 6th and up that has a strong video teaching component and that we can ideally stay with all the way through. She does not want manipulatives or hands on work daily. She does really want something with continual review and after watching her sister do Beast Academy she would like more of a challenge. As just the sample of Beast Academy last year had her in tears I would say AOPS would be *too* much of a challenge. 

After researching and reading many forums posts I am considering Art Reed dvds and Saxon, but I am worried about the length of the lessons. I know continual review means lessons will be longer, but an hour+ on math daily would be discouraging to her. Can anyone with experience with Saxon & Art Reed speak to this?

Any other recommendations of curriculums to look at? 

[HomeAgain]

I'd skip the video lessons.  For real.  I'd find something with solid instruction that incrementally builds so it's not overwhelming.

I'd highly suggest looking at Math Mammoth to build skill and letting her read through Life of Fred for fun.  If there is ever a concept where she is really struggling, find videos then.

[Paige]

Maybe CLE. It has a lot of review built in and is open and go and solid. It's not super challenging, but you could add some challenge in other ways. Beast Academy has puzzle books that she can do a few a day, or there's lots of word problem or challenge problems workbooks in the market, or even Alcumus. 

[WhitneyS]

5 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I'd skip the video lessons.  For real.  I'd find something with solid instruction that incrementally builds so it's not overwhelming.

I'd highly suggest looking at Math Mammoth to build skill and letting her read through Life of Fred for fun.  If there is ever a concept where she is really struggling, find videos then.

My worry with Math Mammoth is two fold and I disregarded it early based on Kate Snow’s review, but maybe you’ll have different thoughts to share. The review from Kate Snow say there isn’t daily review, which we want and that there isn’t much guidance for parents. This year I have struggled to explain concepts, so I really need more help teaching than I fear a program like that can provide. 

[WhitneyS]

11 minutes ago, Paige said:

Maybe CLE. It has a lot of review built in and is open and go and solid. It's not super challenging, but you could add some challenge in other ways. Beast Academy has puzzle books that she can do a few a day, or there's lots of word problem or challenge problems workbooks in the market, or even Alcumus. 

Thank you, I haven’t researched this so I will take a look at it now. 

[HomeAgain]

8 minutes ago, WhitneyS said:

My worry with Math Mammoth is two fold and I disregarded it early based on Kate Snow’s review, but maybe you’ll have different thoughts to share. The review from Kate Snow say there isn’t daily review, which we want and that there isn’t much guidance for parents. This year I have struggled to explain concepts, so I really need more help teaching than I fear a program like that can provide. 

MM is set up to have review of material by covering the concepts in multiple ways.  Everything builds on each other, so if a student get stuck, it's easy to go back to a point where the concept was already covered and see how it relates to the new application.  It's also highly scaffolded and while yes, there isn't much guidance for the parents, it's because the materials are written to the student and explain it well to them directly.  There is no separate parent book because the material is all covered through the student lessons, with lots of explanations and worked out examples.

When I went looking for samples for you to try (and you definitely should), I also noticed a different concern of yours is alleviated. 🙂   There are a lot of free video lessons that go directly along with the material: https://www.mathmammoth.com/videos/

 

[WhitneyS]

1 minute ago, HomeAgain said:

MM is set up to have review of material by covering the concepts in multiple ways.  Everything builds on each other, so if a student get stuck, it's easy to go back to a point where the concept was already covered and see how it relates to the new application.  It's also highly scaffolded and while yes, there isn't much guidance for the parents, it's because the materials are written to the student and explain it well to them directly.  There is no separate parent book because the material is all covered through the student lessons, with lots of explanations and worked out examples.

When I went looking for samples for you to try (and you definitely should), I also noticed a different concern of yours is alleviated. 🙂   There are a lot of free video lessons that go directly along with the material: https://www.mathmammoth.com/videos/

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my concerns, that was incredibly kind. I will take another look, as it does sound like it could be a really good fit. 

[WhitneyS]

39 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I'd skip the video lessons.  For real.  I'd find something with solid instruction that incrementally builds so it's not overwhelming.

I'd highly suggest looking at Math Mammoth to build skill and letting her read through Life of Fred for fun.  If there is ever a concept where she is really struggling, find videos then.

Would you mind sharing what you did for high school, if your student has reached that point?

My ideal is that we find the perfect curriculum and stick with it all the way through, but math mammoth only goes to 8th. And yes, I know there is no perfect curriculum but I can dream while I drink my coffee this morning 🙂

[HomeAgain]

1 minute ago, WhitneyS said:

Would you mind sharing what you did for high school, if your student has reached that point?

My ideal is that we find the perfect curriculum and stick with it all the way through, but math mammoth only goes to 8th. And yes, I know there is no perfect curriculum but I can dream while I drink my coffee this morning 🙂

There is no perfect. 🙂 My oldest did Math U See pre-algebra, Art of Problem Solving's Intro to Algebra, then moved into Texas school books/dual enrollment.  His final book was Saxon's Calculus 1 that he worked through on his own because his class wasn't great.  He asked for it, which is great because I wouldn't have chosen it.

My youngest actually did a completely different sequence.  He's in school now (8th), but has spent this year with AoPS' Alcumus on the side and will do AoPS Intro to Counting and Probability this summer.  He likes math a LOT and is really good at the mental stuff, but even he printed out a MM unit last year when he was working with a topic he hadn't done much with before.  He'll work next year with AoPS still on the side.

I tutor a lot of kids, some from the public school (which used Singapore for a long time and then moved to a mostly free program), and some who have been homeschooled with different materials.  Most of these kids, by the time they hit high school, are pretty clear about what works for them and what doesn't so they can move into a program that hits those points.  Like my kid - he hated Saxon when we first started homeschooling because it made him cry.  It was developmentally inappropriate for him at the time. 5 years of Math U See later, he had the foundations down and he was able to see Saxon in a new light and valuable resource.

I'd suggest, if you continue through high school, to pick up a copy of Dolciani's Algebra 1 or Jacob's Geometry at a place like AbeBooks so you can read through lessons together at a pretty low cost of investment. They're well done programs and both also have additional aids floating around if you need it. If they don't fit, look at some of the other higher programs.

[Paige]

I suggested CLE because you wanted a lot of review, but I've used MM with all of my kids and it is so good for the right person. I was a good math student, but it really taught me (as I was teaching my kids) math in a way I hadn't been taught as a kid and I'm so much more confident now and am able to really teach my youngest by pulling from my own brain in a way I wasn't prepared to with my oldest kid. Please don't be scared off from MM because of your own skills- it can teach you. 

That said, it only worked for 3/5 of my kids. The others needed more daily review, more drill, and more traditional instruction. CLE is super cheap, so you can buy 1 light unit and see how it goes and only be out like $12.

Edited March 8 by Paige

[Classically Minded]

I highly recommend Saxon Math with the Saxon Teacher CD-ROM and Art Reed videos.  My DD20 did them and scored the highest possible on standardized testing all the way through as is my DS11.  It is thorough and helps them retain prior math skills.  The saying goes that if you do Saxon Math, you WILL KNOW MATH!  I have had local friends who quit Saxon and went to other math curriculum (and kept switching), only to return to Saxon years later because their child couldn't even remember basic math skills as the other programs didn't practice them constantly like Saxon does.  The Well Trained Mind by Susan Wise Bauer recommends Saxon all the way through for a reason - it's quality.  I also think you should email or call Art Reed and talk with him about it, he has talked with us over the years and is an awesome help.  We also use his book as a guide, Using John Saxon's Math Books.

I came from public school to private school and that is when I first encountered Saxon Math and I struggled because it really showed how inferior the books where from public school and I had many gaps.  I determined that my children would not have gaps and use Saxon Math.

[A.M.]

I second Math Mammoth. It has optional videos on the website, and there are separate review workbooks. We use the review workbook on Fridays, but obviously you can use it in any way you want.

Math Mammoth does really help me explain the math to my children. I do recommend reading the chapter ahead of your child so that you understand how the concepts are developed.

I also recommend taking the placement test.

As for follow-up curriculum, Maria Miller has recommendations on her website.

We love Math Mammoth here 🙂

Good luck finding a good fit for your dc!

[alpinegrace]

I have also used Abeka math and my daughter ended up doing poorly on her testing. She just struggled and ended up having a pretty bad attitude in regards to math. We switched to Saxon and I found that it was a good fit for her because of the review built into every lesson. Make sure to give your daughter the placement test to place her correctly. If she's struggling, she'll probably land in 5/4 which is totally fine! Don't be frustrated that the numbers don't match her grade. It's okay! 5/4 reviews a bit at the beginning and has lots of math fact review built in. Saxon is considered the most popular choice for a reason!

For video lessons, we have used Nicole the Math Lady and DIVE. My kids liked the DIVE videos better. Their website also has tips on how to get a struggling student set up so you both aren't so overwhelmed. The videos are short, and I watch them too so I can help if there are any issues when she does the assignment.

I haven't used Math Mammon, so while that may be excellent I can't recommend it. There are plenty of good programs out there, but I did find success with Saxon. Good luck!

[Porridge]

As a follow up after Math Mammoth, you might consider Derek Owens. His courses are well regarded as solid college preparatory courses but are not as "challenging" as AoPS. They are video based, asynchronous.

[ScoutTN]

Seconding the idea that one size does not fit all and even a curriculum that works for your student one year may not in a year or two. Kids develop and change.

I had one who thrived with conceptual curricula (Right Start and MM) and one who needed a more procedural approach with lots of review. Saxon was not a fit for either. 
 

If you are not comfortable teaching high school math, when you get to that point, you might consider outsourcing to a live online class. There are many options. 

[daijobu]

On 3/8/2024 at 6:50 AM, WhitneyS said:

After much research, my daughter and I chose Apologia last year. I loved the idea of hands on projects each lesson and my daughter was excited to try it. After using it, it isn’t a great fit. My daughter hates the hands on projects, I’ve had to supplement math fact drills as she was struggling with previously memorized facts and yesterday she told me she would really like a program with more review, as she feels like she’s forgetting how to do things. 

I'm wondering what you mean by "hands-on"?  Sometimes there's no substitute for pencil and paper practice with worksheets.  She might forget less if she solves more practice problems, i.e., more "hands on."  

Singapore Math is also a solid option for elementary.  

[WhitneyS]

54 minutes ago, daijobu said:

I'm wondering what you mean by "hands-on"?  Sometimes there's no substitute for pencil and paper practice with worksheets.  She might forget less if she solves more practice problems, i.e., more "hands on."  

Singapore Math is also a solid option for elementary.  

By hands on I mean finding household objects and working through pretend scenarios with said objects. 

I am well aware of the need for pencil and paper and am not trying to remove that aspect. 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, daijobu said:

Singapore Math is also a solid option for elementary.  

Yes! 

[Servant4Christ]

On 3/8/2024 at 9:56 AM, Paige said:

Maybe CLE. It has a lot of review built in and is open and go and solid. It's not super challenging, but you could add some challenge in other ways. Beast Academy has puzzle books that she can do a few a day, or there's lots of word problem or challenge problems workbooks in the market, or even Alcumus. 

CLE put my oldest in tears regularly in elementary. He aced all his end of unit tests but had no idea why he was doing what he was doing. He just memorized the steps without ever "getting" it. He hated the lack of practice of the new concept because the next day that concept would be in the review section and if he didn't understand it the first time, he certainly didn't the next day.... And this would have a sortof snowball effect. He's the type who needs mastery plus review. He needs solid explanations and step by step directions up front with an occasional visual, but that's it. Then it's just reminders through daily mixed reviews. R&S gives us exactly that so we plan to use it through the 8th grade text and then move on to Foerster.

[Langell0002]

CLE!!!!!!!!  ❤️😆❤️😆 We love it!

[seemesew]

I'd look at the Good and the Beautiful math! My daughters are loving it and its fun without being too much at the same time. Its also spiral so it reviews a good amount.

[Tawlas]

Another vote for CLE.  I have a son with dyslexia/discalculia and it works for him.  I have an intuitive mathy gifted son and he likes it because he can understand it most days without my help and can just go to town.  I have a bang-on neurotypical but more into language daughter and it works for her too.  With all of them, I don’t make them do every single problem (except new stuff, quizzes and tests) because I found it wore them right out to expect that of them plus the drill at the end.  My oldest is in Algebra 1.  He did Teaching textbooks for a year (video based) so he could be more independent and it was a disaster and we ended up redoing PreAlgebra (level 8 ) in CLE.

I teach the new stuff each day and watch while they do the new section, then they do the review parts on their own.  It does a great job explaining and I’ve learned a ton myself!  Teacher’s manuals are replicas with answers fully worked out and there are extra supplements in the back if needed.

If you do decide to try one of the booklets because a previous poster is right, its not expensive at all, don’t get the first booklet of the year as it’s not typical to what the rest of the year will look like.  The second to ninth books are best for a real idea.

[Masers]

On 3/14/2024 at 12:50 PM, seemesew said:

I'd look at the Good and the Beautiful math! My daughters are loving it and its fun without being too much at the same time. Its also spiral so it reviews a good amount.

This has been a really great fit for all three of my boys so far. I’m impressed with it.