Online AP Calculus BC with a format similar to ChemAdvantage?

[saw]

Is there an asynchronous AP Calculus BC class online that has a set up similar to that of ChemAdvantage? DS did ChemAdvantage last year, and it worked well for him. This year he is doing IB Math HL but it overlaps considerably with the math he did last year, so I'm looking into whether Calc BC might be an option for those sections of the HL course that he has already done. I don't want a live class because of scheduling, but something that is "more" than just a self-paced class like Khan would be great. 

[madteaparty]

I’m writing you.

[Malam]

https://www.thinkwellhomeschool.com/products/calculus-bc-compatible-with-ap isn't interactive, but it is self-paced.

https://cty.jhu.edu/programs/online/courses/ap-calculus-bc-cbc seems to be what you're looking for, but it's likely expensive. Same with https://www.flvsglobal.net/course/flvs-hosted/AP-Calculus-BC/486/

[frankincense]

I'm interested in the same -- DD will complete AP Calculus AB this year and is thinking of taking AP Calculus BC next year. I've read that Calc BC repeats topics covered in AB, and this seems like a plus rather than a minus in our case as it will ensure that DD's grasp of these calc concepts in really solid before progressing to the BC AP exam (she's planning to skip the Calc AB AP exam and just take BC). That said, I'm also looking for a self-paced Calc BC course. Thinkwell courses haven't been a hit here in the past. CTY has a broad suite of upper math options, which is excellent, but the price tag is exceptionally high, particularly when there are no previews. I'm a little hesitant to shell out that much money without any idea how the courses are structured. I called CTY and requested a preview and they stated that there aren't any. 

Is anyone aware of any other self-paced Calc BC options? We're specifically seeking self-paced, not live. Thank you! 

[frankincense]

I just spotted this in an older post on the forum: 

  

On 5/16/2017 at 9:28 AM, snowbeltmom said:

CTY still uses Thinkwell for its AP calc AB and BC classes, so I would expect that Thinkwell content will work for the new AP exam.  I have found that practicing with released practice exams is the best prep, regardless of the textbook/program used.

I realize some time has passed. Does anyone know if this is still true? If so, CTY would be charging $1455 for Calculus BC with Thinkwell materials vs Thinkwell's price at $159. I realize CTY offers grading, but still.... $1296 more for grading? 

[jplain]

2 hours ago, frankincense said:

I just spotted this in an older post on the forum: 

I realize some time has passed. Does anyone know if this is still true? If so, CTY would be charging $1455 for Calculus BC with Thinkwell materials vs Thinkwell's price at $159. I realize CTY offers grading, but still.... $1296 more for grading? 

I'm using Thinkwell Calc AB (compatible with AP) with my daughter this year, and it is meeting our needs (non-STEM kid). However, it does have issues. The AB class was clearly carved out from their full calculus class. There have been some errors, like problems on tests that require concepts they haven't covered yet. Also, it does not include enough problems for mastery. You'd want to be going through a prep book at the same time, and/or set aside a lot of time at the end of the year for practice/review.

[frankincense]

5 hours ago, jplain said:

I'm using Thinkwell Calc AB (compatible with AP) with my daughter this year, and it is meeting our needs (non-STEM kid). However, it does have issues. The AB class was clearly carved out from their full calculus class. There have been some errors, like problems on tests that require concepts they haven't covered yet. Also, it does not include enough problems for mastery. You'd want to be going through a prep book at the same time, and/or set aside a lot of time at the end of the year for practice/review.

Thank you very much for this feedback - it’s very helpful. We tried Thinkwell’s biology and it felt disjointed, so this supports my thought that an alternative would work better for us. Thanks again! 

[EKS]

I don't know of any (which doesn't mean anything) but I think that it would be wonderful if Derek Owens would offer a BC supplement.  His AB class is fabulous.

I do have experience with Thinkwell.  I think it's great as a supplement (the lectures are fabulous), but I'm not thrilled with the structure of the problem sets.

[frankincense]

4 minutes ago, EKS said:

I don't know of any (which doesn't mean anything) but I think that it would be wonderful if Derek Owens would offer a BC supplement.  His AB class is fabulous.

I do have experience with Thinkwell.  I think it's great as a supplement (the lectures are fabulous), but I'm not thrilled with the structure of the problem sets.

DD is currently working through AP Calc with Derek Owens (we’ve used him for Physical Science and Algebra-Precalc as well) and this is my wish as well. I’d love it if he offered both Calc BC and upper math classes - linear algebra, etc. I’m a huge fan of Derek Owens.

[Likaly]

What about AoPS? If not, I would use only CTY. It's very expensive, but that's the class where I want to be sure the kid knows the material. Well-trained was a complete waste of time and money. My kid did Algebra I and Geometry with CTY, but we got the financial aid for Honors Physics, and we paid. It was with every penny. Strict, rigorous, demanding; teachers are great and VERY helpful. Tests, exams, homework, everything was unique and demanded the maturity of a high schooler. And yes, the labs were fantastic. 

[Porridge]

23 minutes ago, Likaly said:

What about AoPS? If not, I would use only CTY. It's very expensive, but that's the class where I want to be sure the kid knows the material. Well-trained was a complete waste of time and money. My kid did Algebra I and Geometry with CTY, but we got the financial aid for Honors Physics, and we paid. It was with every penny. Strict, rigorous, demanding; teachers are great and VERY helpful. Tests, exams, homework, everything was unique and demanded the maturity of a high schooler. And yes, the labs were fantastic. 

Are the CTY plans done at home or virtually?

[Likaly]

On 1/28/2024 at 8:58 PM, Porridge said:

Are the CTY plans done at home or virtually?

What do you mean by plans? Kids did it at home, virtually, and there were appointments with the teacher when the questions arose from tests, exams, or labs. 

[Porridge]

1 hour ago, Likaly said:

What do you mean by plans? Kids did it at home, virtually, and there were appointments with the teacher when the questions arose from tests, exams, or labs. 

I'm sorry. I meant to write labs.

Are the labs done at home with hands-on materials, or virtually (watching a demonstration online)?

[jplain]

8 minutes ago, Porridge said:

I'm sorry. I meant to write labs.

Are the labs done at home with hands-on materials, or virtually (watching a demonstration online)?

You can find pretty detailed info here, including a link to the lab kit: https://help.cty.jhu.edu/support/solutions/articles/43000643323-honors-physics-ncaa-approved-course-materials

[VAMomtoboys]

I'm not familiar with the ChemAdvantage format, but my older son completed Shormann Calculus 1 and earned a 5 on the AP test. Shormann now has Calculus 2 which is equivalent to BC. Shormann is asynchronous and quizzes and tests are graded online. 

[frankincense]

16 hours ago, VAMomtoboys said:

I'm not familiar with the ChemAdvantage format, but my older son completed Shormann Calculus 1 and earned a 5 on the AP test. Shormann now has Calculus 2 which is equivalent to BC. Shormann is asynchronous and quizzes and tests are graded online. 

Thank you! I'm not familiar with Shormann but will check it out. Having another alternative for Calc 2 is really helpful. I'm wondering if it's AP approved. If not, it would mean listing Calc 2 on the transcript vs. AP Calc BC. Not sure if that's the most important point (it's not in our case), but it does factor in. 

The cost differential between Shormann at $139 and CTY at $1455 is certainly pretty stark. Also factoring into the decision is that the CTY self-paced courses must be completed within 9 months, and the Shormann classes presumably could be stretched out. I couldn't really determine the duration from the website. The Shormann site also states that grading is done "online" vs. CTY I'm assuming it's a human grading the work. Again, would have to research further. 

Edited February 1 by frankincense
clarified self-paced vs. live courses

[jplain]

12 minutes ago, frankincense said:

I'm wondering if it's AP approved. If not, it would mean listing Calc 2 on the transcript vs. AP Calc BC. Not sure if that's the most important point (it's not in our case), but it does factor in. 

As a homeschooler, there are two ways you are allowed to label courses AP on your transcript.  You either get approved to teach the AP course yourself, or you enroll your child in a course whose provider has applied for and received approval (like PA Homeschoolers, CTY, Blue Tent Online, Aim Academy, Art of Problem Solving, etc.).  

Only courses can be approved, not curricula, which is why Thinkwell calls their calculus materials "AP-compatible." Same scenario for Shormann Math.  It may cover all of the AP content, but that does not make it an approved course.  In order to use Shormann math as part of an AP Calc BC class on your child's transcript, you would need to pursue course approval (Course Audit) as a homeschool educator.  It is a fairly easy process if you adopt the sample syllabus (most do), although you will have to provide proof of homeschool status when you set up a homeschool educator account.

Since Shormann Math is not (to my knowledge) one of the approved texts, you will also need to select a text that you agree to have on hand as a resource (even if you do not teach from it).  We are using Thinkwell, but I believe I selected one of the Larson texts as our resource text. 

[gstharr]

On 1/24/2024 at 1:00 PM, jplain said:

I'm using Thinkwell Calc AB (compatible with AP) with my daughter this year, and it is meeting our needs (non-STEM kid). However, it does have issues. The AB class was clearly carved out from their full calculus class. There have been some errors, like problems on tests that require concepts they haven't covered yet. Also, it does not include enough problems for mastery. You'd want to be going through a prep book at the same time, and/or set aside a lot of time at the end of the year for practice/review.

 My college freshman took all of Thinkwell's college sciences and math classes.  He had excellent AP test scores. The problem with the TW's AP classes is that TW s simply reorganizes the order and material of the college course to follow the typical AP class order.  Hence, the occasional drop off and disjointedness of  TW's AP classes.  TW's full college classes probably have less than 10% more content than its AP classes.  As far as problems sets go, TW has way more than D.O,  because it provides new problem sets  if you redo a lesson set, hw, or section tests. Tw problems  are also a little more challenging than DO. As to grading turnaround, grading is instantaneous.  BTW we did do alg 1 with CTY, and all instruction was TW videos.  There was teacher who simply monitored progress, but I don't remember if the teacher had his own test material or used TW's.  I think it was the latter because I don't remember a lot of communication with the CTY teacher.

[Likaly]

On 1/30/2024 at 4:52 PM, Porridge said:

I'm sorry. I meant to write labs.

Are the labs done at home with hands-on materials, or virtually (watching a demonstration online)?

The labs are excellent - and very time-consuming, done at home, we did not buy the kit; I bought on Amazon what he needed. The labs include a lot of questions, explanations, videos, and photos. My friend's daughter had Honors Chemistry, and they needed the help, so the tutor from the high school teaching AP, said it was much harder and more rigorous than AP. 

[jplain]

1 hour ago, gstharr said:

As far as problems sets go, TW has way more than D.O,  because it provides new problem sets  if you redo a lesson set, hw, or section tests. 

I cannot compare to DO, but what you describe has not been our experience with Thinkwell's Calc compatible with AP Calc AB this year.  If we try to redo the exercises that follow a topic, we get the exact same problems in the same order.  Same with the practice tests.  Chapter tests can only be taken once.

[VAMomtoboys]

7 hours ago, frankincense said:

Thank you! I'm not familiar with Shormann but will check it out. Having another alternative for Calc 2 is really helpful. I'm wondering if it's AP approved. If not, it would mean listing Calc 2 on the transcript vs. AP Calc BC. Not sure if that's the most important point (it's not in our case), but it does factor in. 

The cost differential between Shormann at $139 and CTY at $1455 is certainly pretty stark. Also factoring into the decision is that the CTY self-paced courses must be completed within 9 months, and the Shormann classes presumably could be stretched out. I couldn't really determine the duration from the website. The Shormann site also states that grading is done "online" vs. CTY I'm assuming it's a human grading the work. Again, would have to research further. 

Shormann is not an "official" AP course, though it covers the AP material. As someone else mentioned you can register as an AP teacher through College Board and officially list the class on your transcript. It's a pretty straight forward process and then gives your student access to all of the review material on AP classroom, so I think it's a great added resource. You will need to choose an AP approved textbook to have on hand. I looked through the AP list and choose one that I could purchase a cheap used copy of.

Shormann quizzes and tests are multiple choice, so it's graded immediately. If you have questions you can send Dr. Shormann an email. You purchase access for at least 12 months if I remember correctly, and you can purchase more time at a discounted rate if needed.

It was a great fit for my older son who is very much an independent learner and STEM student. The difficulty level was too much for my second son. Shormann has sample videos and you can see if seems like a good fit.