Gr. 10 English booklist ideas

[Eilonwy]

For Gr.10 English for my daughter I’m planning Romeo and Juliet (read-through, live theatre, probably a film version), Beowulf (Seamus Heaney version), maybe Mulan legend poem and medieval Chinese cat poems, Northanger Abbey (read and film), Things Fall Apart (maybe with Bravewriter lit guide), The Hate U Give (read and film), and then maybe The Prize Winner of Defiance Ohio or something else.
My daughter requested a number of categories including something set in the 30s to the 50s but not in wartime. I thought about To Kill a Mockingbird as well, but I’ve heard that one is better understood at a higher grade.  Any thoughts on this or recommendations for something else (like short stories set in that era, perhaps, that is a genre I’m missing, partly due to low personal interest/tolerance)?

ETA: I enjoy some short stories but didn’t like the ones we did in school at all.  Indigenous or Eastern European short stories would be of interest if there are any recommendations, and don’t need to be set in the 30s to 50s.
 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Eilonwy

[Rosie_0801]

Bollywood's 'Veer-Zaara' is the best adaption of Romeo and Juliet everrrrr. I think everyone needs to know this.

Perhaps your daughter would like 'Miss Pettigrew Lives for the Day.' The book is better than the film.

[ScoutTN]

I think To Kill A Mockingbird is fine for that age. We did it in 9th, paired with the film. Great discussions. 

[Lori D.]

Fun! An interesting variety lineup for your booklist. 😄 

 

13 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

... I thought about To Kill a Mockingbird as well, but I’ve heard that one is better understood at a higher grade.  Any thoughts on this or recommendations for something else (like short stories set in that era, perhaps...

Actually, I often see this one done at grade 8-9, so I think you'd be fine doing it in 10th grade, but of course, YMMV, due to the particular student or your particular goals for this year's lit.

Another one to consider is Their Eyes Were Watching God by Hurston -- published in the 1930s by a black female author, with a black female protagonist.
 

13 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

... ETA: I enjoy some short stories but didn’t like the ones we did in school at all.  Indigenous or Eastern European short stories would be of interest if there are any recommendations, and don’t need to be set in the 30s to 50s.

Eastern Europe:

Russia
- "Queen of Spades" (Pushkin) -- short story; early 1800s
- "How Much Land Does A Man Need" (Tolstoy) -- short story; late 1800s
- "The Nose" (Gogol) -- satirical short story; early 1800s; impressionist modernism and absurdism
- a short story by Anton Chekov -- 19th cent. author

Austria-Hungary
- The Metamorphisis (Franz Kafka) -- novella; late 19th/early 20th cent.

Poland
- "Father's Last Escape" (Schultz -- Polish Jew killed in WW2; 1930s-early 1940s; magical realism
- A Day of Pleasure (Isaac Singer) -- short novel, biographical sketches of Jewish ghetto, early 20th century (pre-WW1)
OR, a short story by Singer

Indigenous

- The Man Made From Words (Momaday)
collection of short stories, essays, poems, so perhaps choose selections?

- Ceremony (Silk)
novel, with short mythic Southwestern Native American type of tales interspersed in the main story of a Native American Vietnam War vet struggling with life upon his return from war; a lot of Navajo (Diné) culture and way of thinking in this one; some mature material, so you may wish to preview


Also, I posted a list of World Lit. ideas (novels and short stories) by country / century in this past thread: "World Lit. help"

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Lori D.

[kokotg]

I put together a list of short stories by Native American authors the other day (I haven't read these; I was cribbing from a Facebook group I'm in for my 12th grader this year: 

Native American authors short stories: Sherman Alexie (the approximate size of my favorite tumor), what you pawn I will redeem, superman and me, eulogy, I hated Tonto (still do)

Only Approved Indians Can Play: Made in The USA, by Jack Forbes

Louise Erdrich Red Convertible and the Leap, Dear John Wayne

Blue Winds Dancing by Tom Whitecloud

The Way to Rainy Mountain

Re: To Kill a Mockingbird...I personally wouldn't assign it much later than 10th grade; it's a nice, gentle introduction to metaphor, and it's commonly assigned in 8th or 9th grade (there's an infamous Flannery O' Connor quote about it: "For a child’s book it does all right. It’s interesting that all the folks that are buying it don’t know they’re reading a child’s book. Somebody ought to say what it is." I'm not a big TKAM fan, and my kids haven't read it at all, but I feel guilty about that sometimes since it's one of the very few "everyone's read it" books we have). 

For the 30's, I'd second Their Eyes Were Watching God 

Lincoln Highway is contemporary but set in the 50s, and it's excellent. 

 

[Farrar]

Does she want something set in the 30's-50's or written then? I think a lot of books written then won't feel set then, you know?

I third Their Eyes Were Watching God, but it's not an easy read, so keep that in mind. I feel like the 50's are brimming with allegories and over the top metaphors like Fahrenheit 451 and The Crucible. But, of course, the most 50's book is not for phonies, The Catcher in the Rye.

But may I present I Capture the Castle as an option? Published in 1948. Not about wars.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Farrar

[Zoo Keeper]

Just now, Farrar said:

Does she want something set in the 30's-50's or written then? I think a lot of books written then won't feel set then, you know?

I third Their Eyes Were Watching God, but it's not an easy read, so keep that in mind. I feel like the 50's are brimming with allegories and over the top metaphors like Fahrenheit 451 and The Crucible. But, of course, the most 50's book is not for phonies, The Catcher in the Rye.

But may I present I Capture the Castle as an option? Published in 1948. Not about wars.

^ I Capture the Castle is a gem!  Wonderful coming of age novel. 

[Eilonwy]

23 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Bollywood's 'Veer-Zaara' is the best adaption of Romeo and Juliet everrrrr. I think everyone needs to know this

Thanks!  Our library has this, and she would rather see this than a Hollywood film version (though maybe both).  I’ll look up Miss Pettigrew too. 

[Rosie_0801]

6 minutes ago, Eilonwy said:

Thanks!  Our library has this, and she would rather see this than a Hollywood film version (though maybe both).  I’ll look up Miss Pettigrew too. 

Do both. I think a lot of the learning with Shakespeare is in comparing the different versions. Or at least that's how my dd has learned to love Shakespeare when I don't. lol (Being tricked into liking Shakespeare is one of my hobbies.) Watch one with the original language and then a few adaptations.

Miss Pettigrew is just *nice* and while the teen years are a good time to get into some harder themes, I have become convinced that *nice* (but not twee) is kind of radical.

[Eilonwy]

@Lori D. and @kokotg, thanks so much for the short story recommendations and the thoughts on Mockingbird and Their Eyes Were Watching God.  That one wasn’t one I was thinking of, but I’ll have a look at it (perhaps for next year, since it doesn’t look like it’s set in the 30s to 50s).  
 

22 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Does she want something set in the 30's-50's or written then? I think a lot of books written then won't feel set then, you know?

Set then, so it doesn’t need to be written then.  I’m not familiar with I Capture the Castle, that sounds interesting.  Fahrenheit 451 would  be very timely for now, but not set in the 50s. I’m doubting I’m authentic enough to pull off Catcher…

[Eilonwy]

25 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Miss Pettigrew is just *nice* and while the teen years are a good time to get into some harder themes, I have become convinced that *nice* (but not twee) is kind of radical.

I do need a couple of nice books to balance out the harder things, thanks!

[Eilonwy]

On 8/9/2023 at 11:11 AM, kokotg said:

To Kill a Mockingbird...I personally wouldn't assign it much later than 10th grade; it's a nice, gentle introduction to metaphor, and it's commonly assigned in 8th or 9th grade (there's an infamous Flannery O' Connor quote about it: "For a child’s book it does all right. It’s interesting that all the folks that are buying it don’t know they’re reading a child’s book. Somebody ought to say what it is." I'm not a big TKAM fan, and my kids haven't read it at all, but I feel guilty about that sometimes since it's one of the very few "everyone's read it" books we have). 

I think it's fine to not be a fan, and not to get your kids to read it - I strongly dislike Lord of the Flies, and that one is also near the top of the "10 Must-read books" for high school, which I am not going to cover. 

The point about TKAM being a child's book (she sounds a touch snippy), that should be covered not too late is interesting.  For me it seems important that the reader to recognize that Scout is seeing a child's view of the world, that she doesn't have a complete adult view of things.  I don't know that most Gr. 8s would be able to understand that very well. I'm not sure my daughter would either, at 15.  If you cover the background of the author, and her real-life inspiration in her father, it also becomes clear that although he was doing some good things, and better than many of his era, he also held strongly racist views at the same time.  That also seems like a set of ideas that are not that easy to understand in Gr. 8 or 9.  I think someone else on this board listed it as one not to rush on, so I was wondering.

 

21 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Miss Pettigrew is just *nice* and while the teen years are a good time to get into some harder themes, I have become convinced that *nice* (but not twee) is kind of radical.

Looking at the booklist as a whole, I'm leaning towards more levity in the 30s-50s book.  I expect that Things Fall Apart, Beowulf, and The Hate U Give are all going to be on the heavier side, and R&J is a mix of very tragic and the Nurse.  Northanger and Chinese cat poems will be lighter, so the last novel should be lighter too.

I was looking at what I could get for Indigenous short stories at the library today, and came up with Moccasin Square Gardens by Richard van Camp, Glorious Frazzled Beings by Angelique Lalonde, and Buffalo is the New Buffalo, by Chelsea Vowel.  I have not read any of these yet, but will over the next few days.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Eilonwy

[Lori D.]

8 minutes ago, Eilonwy said:

...Looking at the booklist as a whole, I'm leaning towards more levity in the 30s-50s book. 

Lighter, more humous, or more uplifting/inspiring novels/plays/short stories written in the 1930s-1950s:

1930s
- UK = Thank You Jeeves, or, Right Ho Jeeves (Wodehouse) -- humor
- UK = Miss Buncle's Book (Stevenson) -- humorous comedy of manners
- UK = Murder on the Orient Express (Christie) -- mystery
- UK = And Then There Were None (Christie) -- mystery
- US = "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty" (Thurber) -- humorous short story

1940s
- US = "The Catbird Seat" (Thurber) -- humorous short story

1950s
(sci-fi suggestions below are not "downer" dystopia or apocalyptic, but more the "interesting idea" type of sci-fi)
- U.S. = I, Robot (Asimov) = sci-fi; novel-length; collection of loosely connected short stories
- U.S. = Foundation (Asimov) = sci-fi; novel-length; collection of loosely connected short stories
- U.S. = The Martian Chronicles (Bradbury) = sci-fi; novel-length; collection of loosely connected short stories
- UK = "Lamb to the Slaughter" (Dahl) = short story; dark or black humor
- UK = Our Man in Havana (Greene) = short novel; espionage thriller + character study + political satire
- UK = The Daughter of Time (Tey) = mystery by one of the "4 queens of the golden age of British detective fiction"
 

While not written in the 1930s-1950s, Richard Peck's YA is often set in that time period, which overlaps with his lived experience of growing up (he was born in 1934). So for a lighter, humorous pair of YA works, you might consider A Long Way from Chicago, and, A Year Down Yonder, which are set during the US Great Depression of the 1930s.

Also, even though sci-fi is not usually SET in the time in which it is written, it often can give you a really good look at the mindset and what was important to the culture at the time the work was written--sci-fi written in the 1950s and 1960s is often a very good "window" into the US cultural mindset and politics of those times. 😉

[Lori D.]

5 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

...The point about TKAM being a child's book (she sounds a touch snippy), that should be covered not too late is interesting.  For me it seems important that the reader to recognize that Scout is seeing a child's view of the world, that she doesn't have a complete adult view of things.  I don't know that most Gr. 8s would be able to understand that very well. I'm not sure my daughter would either, at 15.  If you cover the background of the author, and her real-life inspiration in her father, it also becomes clear that although he was doing some good things, and better than many of his era, he also held strongly racist views at the same time.  That also seems like a set of ideas that are not that easy to understand in Gr. 8 or 9.  I think someone else on this board listed it as one not to rush on, so I was wondering.

Interesting. That did not seem to be an issue with either DS here, doing TKaM in grade 8. Nor did it seem that when I did it with my homeschool co-op class of 8th-9th graders that they were too young or missing a lot. But, I did provide them with a lot of set-up and background, which is important for getting the most out of any work of literature, IMO. 

A lot of the first half of the novel is clearly childish pranks and thinking, and then it builds into the "hard" things that happen to the characters, which works well as stepping stones for the reader to see that this is a coming of age story, and to see the clear progression in thinking and in maturing in Scout and Jem.

There is a lot of humor in this book as well, and it did not go over the 8th-9th graders heads. It was a book they all enjoyed, and I think they liked being given a book with more "meat" to it and that had a bit of challenge to it for stretching. But, that has just been my experience with at-home and in a class of students. YMMV. 😄 

[Rosie_0801]

Ooh. I just finished reading 'I, Robot' and unexpectedly loved it. I particularly enjoyed the stories that reminded me of contemporary sci-fi I've read, because it is fun to follow the lineage in literature.

[Lori D.]

11 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Ooh. I just finished reading 'I, Robot' and unexpectedly loved it. I particularly enjoyed the stories that reminded me of contemporary sci-fi I've read, because it is fun to follow the lineage in literature.

Yea! And that's a great observation about following the themes through the decades of sci-fi.

And speaking of which, you might be interested to know that the story "Runaround" in I, Robot is where the 3 Laws of Robotics that Asimov developed first appear. Those "laws" are taken as a given in all of sci-fi now. 😄 

First Law = A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
Second Law = A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
Third Law = A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

[Eilonwy]

17 hours ago, Lori D. said:

UK = The Daughter of Time (Tey) = mystery by one of the "4 queens of the golden age of British detective fiction"

I read this one last year and sent me right down a Richard III rabbit hole for about a month.  It was really well done. 
 

I think she would like Wodehouse, and probably also I, Robot.  It’s a good point about seeing the mindset and culture in sci-fi. 

 

17 hours ago, Lori D. said:

A lot of the first half of the novel is clearly childish pranks and thinking, and then it builds into the "hard" things that happen to the characters, which works well as stepping stones for the reader to see that this is a coming of age story, and to see the clear progression in thinking and in maturing in Scout and Jem.

That’s great that it worked well.  It could still have a lot to do with the background preparation you did, but good to know that it can be clear enough and be effective. 

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

... It could still have a lot to do with the background preparation you did, but good to know that it can be clear enough and be effective. 

Totally NOT telling you it's a must book, but Garlic Press' Discovering Literature guide for To Kill a Mockingbird is quite meaty, if you don't have time to do a lot of prep. 😉

See sample pages: Remedia Publications. Also available through Amazon.

[Eilonwy]

Thanks, @Lori D., I had heard those ones were well done.  

[kokotg]

I just remembered Francine Prose's essay "I Know Why the Caged Bird Cannot Read: How American high school students learn to loathe literature," in which she eviscerates a few beloved classics and gets at my issues with TKAM more eloquently than I could (I can't find a version online that I can cut and paste from) https://harpers.org/2015/07/i-know-why-the-caged-bird-cannot-read/#:~:text=Published in the September 1999,eighty high-school reading lists.:

I also think Lee baits race and class in a way that's very American but also very harmful.

Edited August 14, 2023 by kokotg

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, kokotg said:

I just remembered Francine Prose's essay "I Know Why the Caged Bird Cannot Read: How American high school students learn to loathe literature," in which she eviscerates a few beloved classics and gets at my issues with TKAM more eloquently than I could (I can't find a version online that I can cut and paste from) https://harpers.org/2015/07/i-know-why-the-caged-bird-cannot-read/#:~:text=Published in the September 1999,eighty high-school reading lists...

Ouch. That sounds like a personal dislike of the book that is being passed off as a very surface-level and sensationalistic "review" to grab reader attention. HOWEVER... I was not able to read the full article, so I certainly don't want to judge on the basis of that single quotation, out of the greater context. 😄 

Just my take: I have read and taught TKaM twice, and find the quality of writing to be better than Francine Prose did in that quotation above. And again, JMO, racism is a more minor theme in the work, as part of the backdrop of the culture of that place -- addressing racism or showing racism from a Black perspective, is not the main purpose of the book. I think she much more delves into the social/cultural hierarchy of that time and place, than the racism... 

TKaM has been acknowledged by Harper Lee to be slightly autobiographical, and so of course this is going to be written from her perspective and what racism looked like to her childhood self. Also important to realize, especially, as Lee was writing in 1960 and had not really lived outside of that culture.

Crazily enough, I actually HAD Francine Prose as a creative writing instructor for one semester in college!

It was very clear in having her as an instructor that she, too, comes from a very specific culture that had its own specific/unique political and cultural lens, and that she was writing out of a very specific literary culture. Not at all saying that's bad -- just that it's helpful when reading any author to understand their personal background, as well as the history/culture of the author's times, and the times of the work's setting.

I personally don't find it helpful to discard books just because they don't come from a currently popular POV. After all, the reason we still read and discuss many of the classics that are part of The Great Conversation is precisely because they DO have universal themes, and they DO speak to the human condition. Yet come out of very different Ideologies and worldviews, which can make them challenging to contemporary ideologies or culture. But I don't think "differences" are something to fear. Real tolerance is the ability or willingness to allow for or listen to the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with. So, I personally find it very stimulating to see and think about many different perspectives -- throughout time, and from around the world. 😄 

However, that does NOT mean every book is a good fit for every person!  (There are plenty of classics -- and current works --that just aren't going to work for ME, for various reasons.) 😄

So, one idea, if wanting to cover TKaM, is to broaden the perspective, and also do a work written with a young person coming of age theme, from a Black POV, set in that similar setting of time/place. For example, Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry (Mildred Taylor), published in 1976. It was written by a Black female author, born in 1943 and raised in Mississippi, and is from a 12yo Black girl's eyes, who is living in the 1930s Deep South.

But also, once again... If you don't want to do To Kill a Mockingbird... just don't! It's all good. 😄 

Wishing everyone well in their diverse literature journeys! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Lori D.

[kokotg]

59 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Ouch. That sounds like a personal dislike of the book that is being passed off as a very surface-level and sensationalistic "review" to grab reader attention. HOWEVER... I was not able to read the full article, so I certainly don't want to judge on the basis of that single quotation, out of the greater context. 😄 

Just my take: I have read and taught TKaM twice, and find the quality of writing to be better than Francine Prose did in that quotation above. And again, JMO, racism is a more minor theme in the work, as part of the backdrop of the culture of that place -- addressing racism or showing racism from a Black perspective, is not the main purpose of the book. I think she much more delves into the social/cultural hierarchy of that time and place, than the racism... 

TKaM has been acknowledged by Harper Lee to be slightly autobiographical, and so of course this is going to be written from her perspective and what racism looked like to her childhood self. Also important to realize, especially, as Lee was writing in 1960 and had not really lived outside of that culture.

Crazily enough, I actually HAD Francine Prose as a creative writing instructor for one semester in college!

It was very clear in having her as an instructor that she, too, comes from a very specific culture that had its own specific/unique political and cultural lens, and that she was writing out of a very specific literary culture. Not at all saying that's bad -- just that it's helpful when reading any author to understand their personal background, as well as the history/culture of the author's times, and the times of the work's setting.

I personally don't find it helpful to discard books just because they don't come from a currently popular POV. After all, the reason we still read and discuss many of the classics that are part of The Great Conversation is precisely because they DO have universal themes, and they DO speak to the human condition. Yet come out of very different Ideologies and worldviews, which can make them challenging to contemporary ideologies or culture. But I don't think "differences" are something to fear. Real tolerance is the ability or willingness to allow for or listen to the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with. So, I personally find it very stimulating to see and think about many different perspectives -- throughout time, and from around the world. 😄 

However, that does NOT mean every book is a good fit for every person!  (There are plenty of classics -- and current works --that just aren't going to work for ME, for various reasons.) 😄

So, one idea, if wanting to cover TKaM, is to broaden the perspective, and also do a work written with a young person coming of age theme, from a Black POV, set in that similar setting of time/place. For example, Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry (Mildred Taylor), published in 1976. It was written by a Black female author, born in 1943 and raised in Mississippi, and is from a 12yo Black girl's eyes, who is living in the 1930s Deep South.

But also, once again... If you don't want to do To Kill a Mockingbird... just don't! It's all good. 😄 

Wishing everyone well in their diverse literature journeys! Warmest regards, Lori D.

I remember reading the entire essay, but I can't find it right now without a Harpers subscription. I don't think she's critiquing TKAM for not being from a Black perspective, though, but for treating racism like it's something other people do and inviting the reader to identify with the innocent Scout or the saintly Atticus. I could go post on the Barbie thread about this and feminism! But I see it as the easy way out both for writer and reader. I'd much rather read someone like Faulkner who's really willing to get his hands dirty and grapple with his own culpability. I don't have a problem asking my kids to read things that come out of different worldviews or to consider different perspectives...we read Huck Finn and we talk about Twain's love of minstrel shows and pair it with slave narratives and read Toni Morrison's writings on it and talk about what it meant to be writing that story in the post Civil War US and what on earth is going on with that ending. I mean, maybe that's part of it, really--I personally find Huck Finn fascinating and valuable in a way I don't find TKAM...so I can take a tough love approach to it when I read it with my kids without feeling like I'm not giving them a chance to just read and enjoy it. I can do the same thing with Gatsby..."hey, kids, I love this book, but what's up with the anti-Semitism?!" I'm thinking aloud now, but perhaps I'm just arguing for teaching texts you love and then not being afraid of pointing out problematic stuff. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by kokotg

[kokotg]

Okay, I found the full text of the Francine Prose essay: https://nj01001216.schoolwires.net/cms/lib/NJ01001216/Centricity/Domain/82/i-know-why-the-caged-bird-cannot-read.pdf I've only skimmed it, but I don't know that I'm willing to back her on much other than that paragraph about inviting readers to consider race and prejudice from a safe distance. And her impassioned defense of close reading. I'm always up for an impassioned defense of close reading. But apparently we're not supposed to be talking about how Twain's love of minstrel shows creeps into Huck Finn at all.  But, again, I've only skimmed so far. 

[kokotg]

I should stop blogging my re-read of Prose's essay in real time. I just got to this: 

Quote

No one’s suggesting that canonical writers should be immune to criti- cism. Dickens’s anti-Semitism, Tolstoy’s overly romantic ideas about the peas- antry, Kipling’s racism, are all problematic, and merit discussion. But to treat the geniuses of the past as naughty children, amenable to reeducation by the children of the present, evokes the educational theory of the Chinese Revolution.

So I guess I AM allowed to talk about the minstrel shows as long as I also talk about the good stuff! What a relief! Yeah, I assigned this essay to my first year comp students when I was in grad school because I thought it would both raise their hackles (all college first years love To Kill a Mockingbird!) and make them think. Apparently I still think it's provocative. Maybe I'll give it to my current Ap lit kid to read!

 

[kokotg]

Weirdly, Maya Angelou, the other target of Prose's vitriol, showed up in my Facebook memories today: 

Quote

very much enjoyed Sarah Vowell's essay on Disneyworld, "Species-on-Species Abuse." You've got to admire someone with the guts to refer to"'Dr.' Maya Angelou, the original Goofy" in print.

It might not be weird. It's probably what reminded me of the Francine Prose essay. I used to post so many random things on Facebook! ANYWAY.

[Lori D.]

Fun! 😄 Thx for sharing your ongoing series of thoughts there as you re-read the article, and others!

[Eilonwy]

I've been pre-reading some of my list for this year. 

Beowulf was really enjoyable, and I think that will work well. There are a number of places where more historical and literary context would be interesting.  Do any of you know a good study guide for this poem?

I also read The Hate U Give, and it has a lot of swearing in it, which I am not all that comfortable with reading aloud, though it sounds like how I would expect the characters to talk.  Did anyone change the way they covered some books on account of this?  A friend who has a current university student who was home-schooled throughout says there were some books that worked better not done as read-alouds, and he thought this was one of them. 

Other possibilities are reading it anyway (though others could overhear, and this is not language that I feel comfortable using, I think it has more shock value that way compared to reading it silently and then discussing), or substituting "frig", etc., or portraying it a la Jane Austen in Northanger Abbey:  That d--- horse!  We could watch the film version only, apparently it has less swearing, but possibly is more graphic? I am leaning toward both of us reading it silently and then discussing, but I'd be interested in how others have handled this. 

Romeo and Juliet is already finished (thanks, @Rosie_0801 for the Veer Zaara recommendation, this was a hit). 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Eilonwy

[caffeineandbooks]

5 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

Beowulf was really enjoyable, and I think that will work well. There are a number of places where more historical and literary context would be interesting.  Do any of you know a good study guide for this poem?

Center for Lit gives a helpful and approachable background in this podcast episode, Introduction to Anglo Saxon literature.

[cintinative]

On 9/3/2023 at 11:09 AM, Eilonwy said:

I've been pre-reading some of my list for this year. 

Beowulf was really enjoyable, and I think that will work well. There are a number of places where more historical and literary context would be interesting.  Do any of you know a good study guide for this poem?

 

I'd seriously consider buying the course from House of Humane Letters. Angelina does a fantastic job with Beowulf. Her degree is in medieval lit. https://houseofhumaneletters.com/product/how-to-read-beowulf/

[Eilonwy]

Just now, cintinative said:

I'd seriously consider buying the course from House of Humane Letters. Angelina does a fantastic job with Beowulf. Her degree is in medieval lit.

Thanks, I was looking at that yesterday, but wondering whether I was interested enough to pay that much.  I enjoy her podcast.  Have you seen her course on Beowulf, a comparable book, and thought it was worthwhile?

[cintinative]

Just now, Eilonwy said:

Thanks, I was looking at that yesterday, but wondering whether I was interested enough to pay that much.  I enjoy her podcast.  Have you seen her course on Beowulf, a comparable book, and thought it was worthwhile?

My sons both took her Medieval lit class and I watched the lectures and they were great. I assume that this is just a condensed version.  

@ScoutTN might have taken this course?  

Since Anthony Esolen is also a medieval scholar, this might be worth checking out?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDPc28LH-F8

 

 

[ScoutTN]

I just did the Beowulf course, for fun. It is very good. She does go down some rabbit trails on literary theory at various points. Relevant, but tangent. 

She referred to JRRT’s notes a lot, but teaches from the Burton Raffel translation. She also referenced the brand-new Tom Shippey translation/book on Beowulf.

HHL now has an Anglo-Saxon specialist on their faculty and she will be doing a webinar (90 minutes/$15 is their standard thing, but the info isn’t up yet) on October 24th. HHL will be offering a course in Anglo-Saxon language and literature next school year, for those who love this stuff.
 

 

[Eilonwy]

19 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I just did the Beowulf course, for fun. It is very good. She does go down some rabbit trails on literary theory at various points. Relevant, but tangent. 

She referred to JRRT’s notes a lot, but teaches from the Burton Raffel translation. She also referenced the brand-new Tom Shippey translation/book on Beowulf.

How many hours was the Beowulf course that you did?  And would you say it's accessible for someone who has read the poem but doesn't have a lot of other background? 

Thanks!

[ScoutTN]

4 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

How many hours was the Beowulf course that you did?  And would you say it's accessible for someone who has read the poem but doesn't have a lot of other background? 

Thanks!

7.5 hrs. Yes, totally accessible. She is teaching mostly homeschool moms and some high school and college students. I’d say 6.5 hrs is in the poem and an hour, spread over several lectures, digs in a bit on literary theory.
 

Angelina has ADHD and she rambles at times. Or paints things in stark black and white that I think involve some grey. But she is an excellent teacher, knowledgeable and passionate about what she teaches. 
 

There are lots of extras and resources posted in Canvas too. An audiobook/YT reading, Anglo-Saxon stuff, discussion of translations, etc. 
 

[Lori D.]

Beowulf! So fun! A few things my co-op class has had fun with as go-alongs with Beowulf:

- Benjamin Bagby performs Beowulf in the original Anglo-Saxon
- images from the oldest surviving manuscript

- Animated Beowulf -- 28-min. video
nice introduction to the story, as the art is in the style of the Anglo-Saxons, and the language, while in prose rather than in the original epic poetry style, echoes a lot of the lovely images from the work

- Beowulf Pronunciation Guide
- Beowulf Resources -- website

- Sutton Hoo website -- Anglo-Saxon burial site in England, from the time of the writing of Beowulf
- Sutton Hoo artifacts -- images of some of the Anglo-Saxon grave goods / artifacts 
- The Dig -- Netflix feature film about the discovery of Sutton Hoo

Edited September 5, 2023 by Lori D.

[SilverMoon]

Ancestor Approved is a collection of Indigenous short stories and it's own voices. 

I didn't read the whole thread but I have a 10th grader this year. The Hate U Give is deck for us this year too, and likely All American Boys. He's already read Long Way Down.

He asked for Great Gatsby and we're adding Self-Made Boys (queer) from Remixed Classics. 

You didn't mention poetry, but a fun supplement we're trying out this year is Hip-Hop Poetry and the Classics. 

[Eilonwy]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:51 PM, Lori D. said:

Benjamin Bagby performs Beowulf in the original Anglo-Saxon

I had a look at this today and it is really impressive!  Thanks for sharing.

On 9/5/2023 at 5:50 PM, SilverMoon said:

Ancestor Approved is a collection of Indigenous short stories and it's own voices.

Our library has this, but I'm not sure if it will seem too young. On the other hand, the adult Indigenous short stories that I found so far don't seem like they would be the right age range either.  I'll have a look at it, thanks for suggesting.

 

On 9/5/2023 at 4:43 PM, ScoutTN said:

7.5 hrs. Yes, totally accessible. She is teaching mostly homeschool moms and some high school and college students.

Thanks! that is quite a commitment in time, but explains the cost of the course.

[ScoutTN]

@Eilonwy When you buy a webinar or course from HHL, you have permanent access to all the recordings, discussions, and supplementary materials in your Canvas account. So a good resource if you will be teaching something again in the future.