Kindergarten and Abeka Phonics

[Ting Tang]

My daughter learned how to read using Abeka materials, so I saved them for our youngest.

We are on lesson 24, and he is retaining very little of what he is supposed to be learning.  We have been working on short vowel sounds, the consonant sounds of b, t, l, and n in addition to some blends.  Today we started short words.  

He does a lot of guessing and gives responses that indicate he has learned very little.

Now, Abeka is very scripted and has a lot of repetition.  He is 5 and will turn 6 in January, and I am starting to wonder if he is just not ready for this.  But he is of age to go to regular Kindergarten, so I chose to start now.  The repetition doesn't seem to be working.

I vaguely recall a few times early on when it felt like my daughter didn't understand early phonics, but I just stayed the course, and it worked.  I'm wondering if I should keep plugging along.  I don't want to get too far into it, though, and have to redo it all.  He can sing the ABCs but cannot identify all the letters, too, so I am wondering if this is part of the problem.  We did MasterBooks preschool, and it only taught them A, B, & C.  Abeka does teach letter recognition, but not in order. 

I purposefully chose a light preschool program because I had his three siblings to teach.  He seems pretty smart otherwise that I wasn't worried then--I just assumed he'd be as easy to teach as my daughter, and I figured I had a great curriculum to use that would be just as effective for him/

What would you do?  Can you recommend any other resources?  I do have Phonics Pathways I considered adding.  

Edited October 2, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Malam]

I've never heard of Abeka being particularly good for phonics. Maybe try a dedicated phonics program, like 100 easy lessons?

[lulalu]

Between A Beka and Phonics Pathways you have a really strong phonics program and resources. 5 is young! And it just takes a lot of repetition to learn. Just keep going over the short sounds and going at his speed. 

[Clarita]

What does he know?

Does he know phonemic awareness things like initial/middle/end sounds, rhyming, syllable counting? Or does he just maybe knows some letters?

I had the hardest time teaching my son letters. It was not at all like the WTM book, he had no interest in learning letters. We took a different direction which is we worked on phonemic awareness before letters. (I mean I wouldn't keep letter knowledge from him, we just didn't work on it.) This helped with the letter recognition, well in our case 1 week after figuring out initial sounds he knew all his letters and the sounds they made before then he "knew" 5. 

[Clarita]

In other posts you have talked about being overwhelmed with the amount of school work prepping and teaching, so I wouldn't suggest a curriculum if you want to dive a little into phonemic awareness. It is as easy as having conversations with him like "What's the initial/beginning sound of milk?" (emphasis /m/ sound in milk) then say "It's /m/." (The sound not the letter.) When he gets that then I would move to letter recognition.

Then with my daughter I do motor mouth where I tell her to continue making the sound as I slide my fingers across a 3 letter word with letters she knows (I will go over the three letters that are in the word right before doing the motor mouth.) A variation on this activity is you say words all stretched out and have him guess the word, if he struggles with motor mouth activity.

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, Malam said:

I've never heard of Abeka being particularly good for phonics. Maybe try a dedicated phonics program, like 100 easy lessons?

Really? I admit I ended up with it at the time because I had no idea what was out there at the time! 

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, lulalu said:

Between A Beka and Phonics Pathways you have a really strong phonics program and resources. 5 is young! And it just takes a lot of repetition to learn. Just keep going over the short sounds and going at his speed. 

I do think it’s a maturity issue. He is good with numbers. I do think we will try adding in the Pathways! 

[Ting Tang]

56 minutes ago, Clarita said:

In other posts you have talked about being overwhelmed with the amount of school work prepping and teaching, so I wouldn't suggest a curriculum if you want to dive a little into phonemic awareness. It is as easy as having conversations with him like "What's the initial/beginning sound of milk?" (emphasis /m/ sound in milk) then say "It's /m/." (The sound not the letter.) When he gets that then I would move to letter recognition.

Then with my daughter I do motor mouth where I tell her to continue making the sound as I slide my fingers across a 3 letter word with letters she knows (I will go over the three letters that are in the word right before doing the motor mouth.) A variation on this activity is you say words all stretched out and have him guess the word, if he struggles with motor mouth activity.

Thank you! Basically, he knows nothing. Abeka has a lot of phonemic awareness built into the program, and we do the sliding thing. He guesses at it all.  But the program does add quickly. Should I continue to move forward? Or should I stop and do all review? I do think he will get it… eventually.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Clarita]

Just now, Ting Tang said:

Abeka has a lot of phonemic awareness built into the program, and we do the sliding thing. But the program does add quickly. Should I continue to move forward? Or should I stop and do all review? I do think he will get it… eventually.

I struggled doing an open and go program because of the lack of letter recognition. That was also my son completely refusing to do/learn anything letters (because he didn't see the point). My daughter happily does both letter recognition and phonemic awareness at the same time, but I just focused on phonemic awareness the letter recognition is her just loving coloring/gluing etc.

I found once they get the letter -> sound -> word connection the sliding/blending thing is a lot easier.  

I think if Abeka starts to move on from initial sounds in phonemic awareness and your son is still not understanding that then I might just stay there for a while. Do what you want with letter recognition, if he enjoys it and it gives him something to do while you work with other kids then keep giving him that. 

[Ting Tang]

22 minutes ago, Clarita said:

I struggled doing an open and go program because of the lack of letter recognition. That was also my son completely refusing to do/learn anything letters (because he didn't see the point). My daughter happily does both letter recognition and phonemic awareness at the same time, but I just focused on phonemic awareness the letter recognition is her just loving coloring/gluing etc.

I found once they get the letter -> sound -> word connection the sliding/blending thing is a lot easier.  

I think if Abeka starts to move on from initial sounds in phonemic awareness and your son is still not understanding that then I might just stay there for a while. Do what you want with letter recognition, if he enjoys it and it gives him something to do while you work with other kids then keep giving him that. 

Thank you for the suggestion! I would like him to make progress this year, but I take solace in my knowing it gets reviewed next year, albeit quickly. Then he will move onto Memoria Press— ideally— for 2nd grade. 

[Clarita]

19 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Then he will move onto Memoria Press— ideally— for 2nd grade. 

I thought you had kids which used All About Reading or am I misremembering?

[countrymum]

Here are my thoughts. For whatever they are worth.

Abeka is good strong phonics. I have it as well as All About Reading and have used both for different kids. However my son who was 5 last year was not ready for Abeka Kindergarten phonics. Neither did he do well with All About Reading 1. 1 does not really move faster than the other they are just different. We shelved both for the year and Foundational Phonics from little Seedlings press. It has a big workbook that slowly does all 26 letters 1 at a time. It only covers short vowels. I also used the Abeka blend ladders and short vowel blend cards and some k4 readers. He had pretty good phonetic awareness already though....just was not ready to blend more than 2 letters at first. He was blending lots of 3 letter words at the end of the year but not reading. We practiced some over the summer. He is doing well with Abeka 1st grade materials now. They start back at the beginning so he isn't missing anything. Honestly All About Reading 1 (which we started of the year with) was not going as well as Abeka 1st Is??  I don't use the whole lesson plan each day though. Basically we review special sounds on the basic phonics cards and then some blend or word cards that I pick out and he does his page. Later in the day, hereads a story to me.

If your son needs phonetic awareness help the All About Reading preReading set has lots of scripted short games in progressing difficulty to play. I love them and am using it time 3 now. The cards and teacher book are necessary for the phonetic awareness. The other 3 books are not so much. Do read poetry to your son though. The workbook has letter pages to color and do some activity on. The readers are examples of poetry in one and letter rhymes in the other.

Abeka K4 may also be a good fit, but don't feel like you have to do it all. Just do what your son needs.

 

 

[AnneGG]

I would go back to Abeka K3 or K4. It is not worksheet heavy. I taught both k3 & k4 and students we’re generally successful and happy. Remember Abeka starts ‘em young and it can be too much too soon for many children; especially if they are coming from a gentle program.  K3 is letters, k4 is blending two and three letters. 

Alphabet Island by Learning Resources is a fun game your older children could play with your k5. 

Leap Frog Letter Factory movie is great for letter recognition and sounds.

Or you could wait until first grade. 😊 I’ve got like 99 curricula recs but honestly I would just keep on keeping on with Abeka. It really is a solid phonics program. Do you have the charts and ladders? 

[Brittany1116]

I second the Leap Frog letter factory movie. That and 100 Easy Lessons had my younger one reading at 4. Then we did CLE LTR in K and he's breezing through CLE LA and Reading now in first. 

[Ting Tang]

On 10/3/2022 at 4:48 PM, Clarita said:

I thought you had kids which used All About Reading or am I misremembering?

That is for boy #2.  lol  But great memory!  

 

22 hours ago, countrymum said:

Here are my thoughts. For whatever they are worth.

Abeka is good strong phonics. I have it as well as All About Reading and have used both for different kids. However my son who was 5 last year was not ready for Abeka Kindergarten phonics. Neither did he do well with All About Reading 1. 1 does not really move faster than the other they are just different. We shelved both for the year and Foundational Phonics from little Seedlings press. It has a big workbook that slowly does all 26 letters 1 at a time. It only covers short vowels. I also used the Abeka blend ladders and short vowel blend cards and some k4 readers. He had pretty good phonetic awareness already though....just was not ready to blend more than 2 letters at first. He was blending lots of 3 letter words at the end of the year but not reading. We practiced some over the summer. He is doing well with Abeka 1st grade materials now. They start back at the beginning so he isn't missing anything. Honestly All About Reading 1 (which we started of the year with) was not going as well as Abeka 1st Is??  I don't use the whole lesson plan each day though. Basically we review special sounds on the basic phonics cards and then some blend or word cards that I pick out and he does his page. Later in the day, hereads a story to me.

If your son needs phonetic awareness help the All About Reading preReading set has lots of scripted short games in progressing difficulty to play. I love them and am using it time 3 now. The cards and teacher book are necessary for the phonetic awareness. The other 3 books are not so much. Do read poetry to your son though. The workbook has letter pages to color and do some activity on. The readers are examples of poetry in one and letter rhymes in the other.

Abeka K4 may also be a good fit, but don't feel like you have to do it all. Just do what your son needs.

 

 

Thank you so very much.  Today I felt like we had a breakthrough with blends by using the letter tiles I have for my other son's AAR.  

 

20 hours ago, AnneGG said:

I would go back to Abeka K3 or K4. It is not worksheet heavy. I taught both k3 & k4 and students we’re generally successful and happy. Remember Abeka starts ‘em young and it can be too much too soon for many children; especially if they are coming from a gentle program.  K3 is letters, k4 is blending two and three letters. 

Alphabet Island by Learning Resources is a fun game your older children could play with your k5. 

Leap Frog Letter Factory movie is great for letter recognition and sounds.

Or you could wait until first grade. 😊 I’ve got like 99 curricula recs but honestly I would just keep on keeping on with Abeka. It really is a solid phonics program. Do you have the charts and ladders? 

I have every little Abeka thing one could own in terms of cards, games, etc.  lol  I do think it is a strong program, but I just am not sure he is entirely ready for the pace.  But today we had a breakthrough, so maybe it will be okay afterall.  I also opened up the phonics pathways, but the consonants go in a different order and then have letters for review he hasn't learned on certain pages.  I will check out those other resources, thank you!

 

18 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

I second the Leap Frog letter factory movie. That and 100 Easy Lessons had my younger one reading at 4. Then we did CLE LTR in K and he's breezing through CLE LA and Reading now in first. 

Ok, I have to check out this movie...lol thank you! We have the phonics pathways I am trying to use, too, before we buy anything else. I'll keep that one in mind if all else fails.

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

Thank you so very much.  Today I felt like we had a breakthrough with blends by using the letter tiles I have for my other son's AAR.  

That's kind of why I asked about the AAR. Having the individual letters helped my son a little when he gets frustrated reading/blending. The change a word game activity also helped him feel successful (even if he was still sounding out every letter). 

My little girl is in the midst of learning blending; it is such a milestone and feels like it takes forever. 

[Stoppingby]

Search Leap frog Letter Factory on YouTube for free! Or try RoKu... they have several in the series that show putting sounds together, etc.

I think they are about 20mins each.

[countrymum]

My son likes the blending practice in Abeka better than AAR. Somehow the pretty pictures, some practice in the reader, some in the workbook, and some on cards helps him. He did the AAR fluency pages compliently, but he actually likes his Abeka workbook and reader. I like the tiles to. They are good for any program. Blending is tedious...reading will come. 

[Ting Tang]

Last night, we were able to watch the entire Letter Factory for free on YouTube.  He loved it!  He still got a lot completely wrong today, but he also did some things correct. For instance, he'd do an entire "blend ladder" correctly, then the other one wrong for the same letter---they were just in a different order.  I think we will just persist.

He is somewhat interested in his brother's AAR, so I did have the thought he might enjoy it more, but I really keep hoping Abeka will be as helpful for him as it was for his sister in learning to read.  I truly believe it is a readiness thing and doesn't think it is "fun," but maybe adding in some of those cute movies will help.

[Stoppingby]

After watching the letter factory a few times....Try looking on roku for the Talking Words Factory (leap frog). It is great at blending simple words. 
 

[Brittany1116]

5 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Last night, we were able to watch the entire Letter Factory for free on YouTube.  He loved it!  He still got a lot completely wrong today, but he also did some things correct. For instance, he'd do an entire "blend ladder" correctly, then the other one wrong for the same letter---they were just in a different order.  I think we will just persist.

He is somewhat interested in his brother's AAR, so I did have the thought he might enjoy it more, but I really keep hoping Abeka will be as helpful for him as it was for his sister in learning to read.  I truly believe it is a readiness thing and doesn't think it is "fun," but maybe adding in some of those cute movies will help.

Mine had to watch it about 7 times to remember W. Keep it up, it will help.

[Ting Tang]

22 hours ago, Stoppingby said:

After watching the letter factory a few times....Try looking on roku for the Talking Words Factory (leap frog). It is great at blending simple words. 
 

Thank you so much! We don't have Roku, but maybe it can be found elsewhere!

[Ting Tang]

22 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

Mine had to watch it about 7 times to remember W. Keep it up, it will help.

Thank you!  He seems to need a lot of repetition, too, so we will watch it again. 🙂

[Stoppingby]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Thank you so much! We don't have Roku, but maybe it can be found elsewhere!

Try to see if you can pull it up on the internet- we use it as a free app on the TV. But I imagine you could just go to the site. They have a kids and family section 

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, Stoppingby said:

Try to see if you can pull it up on the internet- we use it as a free app on the TV. But I imagine you could just go to the site. They have a kids and family section 

Thank you— I will look! 

[Ellie]

On 10/2/2022 at 6:02 PM, Malam said:

I've never heard of Abeka being particularly good for phonics.

And I have always heard just the opposite. 🙂 Lots of moving parts, because it's intended to be taught in a classroom, but still excellent phonics/reading.

[Ting Tang]

19 hours ago, Ellie said:

And I have always heard just the opposite. 🙂 Lots of moving parts, because it's intended to be taught in a classroom, but still excellent phonics/reading.

It was fantastic for my daughter!  But....today, my son was in tears over reading short words.  He is making progress, but he isn't ready for this yet.  I don't want to get off track with the curriculum, knowing everything gets reviewed.  But I am starting to wonder if I need something different for him afterall, ugh.  

[Frances]

Personally, I would stop using Abel’s and just focus on fun games to help him master the letter names and sounds with no focus on reading or blending. And of course lots of language exposure through read  alouds, audio books, and conversation with adults. One of the big benefits of homeschooling is you can wait until your child is ready.

Honestly, I don’t understand the push to have kindergartners reading. My son was always extremely verbally precocious and has aced every verbal exam he’s ever taken including the the verbal sections of the SAT (NMS), GRE, and MCAT. But until close to age seven, my primary focus was surrounding him with a language rich environment. He learned his letters and their sounds through games, primarily a fishing game I just made up. I didn’t start any formal reading program until close to his seventh birthday. He fairly quickly went from beginning readers to chapter books, which we had been reading aloud to him since age three. Even as a preschooler, he would listen for hours to read alouds or audio books while riding in the car, cuddling, drawing, or playing with building toys. To me, this is much more valuable for long term language and reading skills than teaching reading at a young age. Unless a child is obviously ready and begging to learn, I really don’t get starting formal reading lessons until age six or seven.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Frances

[Ting Tang]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

Personally, I would stop using Abel’s and just focus on fun games to help him master the letter names and sounds with no focus on reading or blending. And of course lots of language exposure through read  alouds, audio books, and conversation with adults. One of the big benefits of homeschooling is you can wait until your child is ready.

Honestly, I don’t understand the push to have kindergartners reading. My son was always extremely verbally precocious and has aced every verbal exam he’s ever taken including the the verbal sections of the SAT (NMS), GRE, and MCAT. But until close to age seven, my primary focus was surrounding him with a language rich environment. He learned his letters and their sounds through games, primarily a fishing game I just made up. I didn’t start any formal reading program until close to his seventh birthday. He fairly quickly went from beginning readers to chapter books, which we had been reading aloud to him since age three. Even as a preschooler, he would listen for hours to read alouds or audio books while riding in the car, cuddling, drawing, or playing with building toys.

I'm wondering if we should just drop it at this point.  I don't suspect any learning issues with him.  I think it is a maturity issue.  My daughter has always been more mature for her grade level, so I think Abeka was great for her (plus I had no idea what was out there at the time I bought it).  I'm looking at this Foundational Phonics mentioned earlier and wonder if it would be a good fit.  I am going to show it to him.  It is reassuring that this won't set him "behind." Thank you!

[countrymum]

I would guess brain maturity too. My son who is 6 now was totally NOT ready for AAR 1 or Abeka K last year! We did Foundational Phonics, bits of the early Abeka k workbook and bits of other stuff but that's all that really worked well. This year he is totally ready for Abeka 1st....1st is really complete so it's ok to do something else for K. Once short vowel words click even if they are not fluent 1st seems to work.

Also my sis in law teaches Kindergarten at a Christian school using Abeka. For many kids she just stops at the short vowel part and does other stuff. Also the Abeka blend ladders and blend practice cards A were also perfect for my son as an early 5 yr old. AAR 1 from pre AAR was too big a jump. (I own AAR and Abeka too;) I like both for different kids.

[Ting Tang]

19 hours ago, countrymum said:

I would guess brain maturity too. My son who is 6 now was totally NOT ready for AAR 1 or Abeka K last year! We did Foundational Phonics, bits of the early Abeka k workbook and bits of other stuff but that's all that really worked well. This year he is totally ready for Abeka 1st....1st is really complete so it's ok to do something else for K. Once short vowel words click even if they are not fluent 1st seems to work.

Also my sis in law teaches Kindergarten at a Christian school using Abeka. For many kids she just stops at the short vowel part and does other stuff. Also the Abeka blend ladders and blend practice cards A were also perfect for my son as an early 5 yr old. AAR 1 from pre AAR was too big a jump. (I own AAR and Abeka too;) I like both for different kids.

Thank you for sharing your experience!  Did you use the one from Little Seedlings Press?  I think Master Books has one with the same title.  I have been looking at the Little Seedlings Press book. But part of me thinks we should just continue on with Abeka, even if it means me reading a lot of everything to him and him not remembering, since it will be reviewed in 1st grade.  My hesitation with something else is that he is doing well with the handwriting part, which coincides with the phonics.  If we do the Little Seedlings Press book, the handwriting is different. Or perhaps tracing and copying, it won't matter, lol.

[Elizabeth86]

I may be zero help, but I am on my 3rd go with Abeka phonics. My boys excelled, but my girl seems to struggle. For example, she couldn’t do the blend ladders when we were on that without sounding each and every one. The other day, we reviewed blend ladders and somehow she read them quickly and flawlessly without sounding them out. My best memory is that you start our first grade completely reviewing K. I’m going to stick out because even when she doesn’t get it, she ends up getting it  later. 

[countrymum]

I used the Little Seedlings Press one. The masterbooks title is only slightly different, if I recall correctly.  My son found foundational phonics nice and unstressful so reading was not associated with frustration at age 5;)

We sometimes added in parts of Abeka like blend ladders or 1 vowel word cards as time went on. Just keep the goal of sounding out 1 vowel words in sight however far away it is.

The only reason to switch is if Abeka is currently causing tears and frustration.

Yes handwriting is different. You could skip the tracing in foundational phonics and just keep up with abeka if you want too.

[Ting Tang]

20 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I may be zero help, but I am on my 3rd go with Abeka phonics. My boys excelled, but my girl seems to struggle. For example, she couldn’t do the blend ladders when we were on that without sounding each and every one. The other day, we reviewed blend ladders and somehow she read them quickly and flawlessly without sounding them out. My best memory is that you start our first grade completely reviewing K. I’m going to stick out because even when she doesn’t get it, she ends up getting it  later. 

I am glad I am not alone here!  I never fretted about him not being a reader early on because I saw such success with the Abeka curriculum, but alas...there is struggle.  I have seen some progress, though, so I know something is churning in his brain.  

[Ting Tang]

3 hours ago, countrymum said:

I used the Little Seedlings Press one. The masterbooks title is only slightly different, if I recall correctly.  My son found foundational phonics nice and unstressful so reading was not associated with frustration at age 5;)

We sometimes added in parts of Abeka like blend ladders or 1 vowel word cards as time went on. Just keep the goal of sounding out 1 vowel words in sight however far away it is.

The only reason to switch is if Abeka is currently causing tears and frustration.

Yes handwriting is different. You could skip the tracing in foundational phonics and just keep up with abeka if you want too.

Well, we have had one of those bad moments this past week.  😞  And he makes comments about it being hard, not liking it, etc.  I do really like how Little Seedlings Press looks. I think I will see how next week goes.  I am going to try not to make anything a big deal.  And if he seems emotionally okay with our lighthearted approach, I may just continue and hope he matures enough to make it stick next year.