Lantern English

[Elizabeth86]

Who here uses it, I have questions.

[wendyroo]

My kids have for several years.

[Elizabeth86]

1 hour ago, wendyroo said:

My kids have for several years.

Ok I would love for you to tell me your opinion of it. The pros and cons. How is the feedback with the grading, do you think they do a good job with that? 

I'm also trying to figure out where to place my son. He is 10 going on 11 in September, 6th grade. This is all we have done so far for grammar and writing. We did FLL 3 for 3rd grade. Teaching writing through Guided Analysis for 4th and 5th grade. We started on FLL 4 but haven't finished yet. 

[wendyroo]

It certainly isn't the end all, be all, perfect class...but it has always been good enough that I keep coming back.

Pros:
The feedback is normally pretty good, and in our experience has always been very prompt (received the day after each assignment is due to give you plenty of time to make modifications to the next week's assignment. There are three types of feedback:

An analytical grade that looks like this:
Grade: 99% (29.6 out of 30 total points)
• Following Directions: 6
• Grammar Skills: 5.9
• Spelling, Punctuation, & Capitalization: 5.7
• Ideas & Content: 6
• Understanding & Application: 6
Overall Level of Skill & Understanding: Strong

Some subjective comments that look like this:
Areas Of Strength & Improvement: EXCELLENT job with your final summary!
There were only two very minor grammatical errors that I was able to pick out, which you can review below.
I also had one suggestion for rearranging the last two sentences of your conclusion, but other than that, you
did a great job.

And corrections and suggestions offered within your actual assignment that look like this:
American Sign Language allows deaf people to become a true part of society. American Sign Language is similar to spoken English, but it is actually its own language. (This ending is great! The only suggestion I would have would be to switch the sentences around so that you conclude with “American Sign Language allows deaf people to become a true part of society.”)

Cons:
I will say that the feedback seems to be weaker if the student is doing really well. Recently Spencer received 100% on an assignment and the feedback: "Fantastic narrative, Spencer. I love that he learned a valuable lesson and saw the fruits of his hard work. Excellent job. I see no mistakes." I felt they could have offered a couple suggestions that stretched him a bit, but they have pretty fixed expectations for each class and don't have a lot to say if the child is already meeting them.

Also, one time (out of many, many classes, we got assigned a teacher who was not qualified. She kept marking all sorts of sentences wrong as run-ons when they weren't. I took the issue to the owner of the company and she fixed it.

I don't know how to help with placement. We have never done any of their grammar classes. We have done a ton of writing classes, from Sentence Stretchers up through The Research Paper. We have also done almost all of the literature classes they offer.  Their class descriptions and syllabi really do outline exactly what is covered in each class, so you can just look at the first class (Sentence Stretchers), see if you think your son has those skills, and if so move up to the next until you find the right level. When we started using Lantern, my oldest was a 5th grader who did not like to write. I actually started him in Sentence Stretchers just to ease him in and solidify basic sentence writing skills. Two years later, he has now aced both their Growing the Essay classes and is working on a Research Paper with them over the summer.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[Elizabeth86]

16 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

It certainly isn't the end all, be all, perfect class...but it has always been good enough that I keep coming back.

Pros:
The feedback is normally pretty good, and in our experience has always been very prompt (received the day after each assignment is due to give you plenty of time to make modifications to the next week's assignment. There are three types of feedback:

An analytical grade that looks like this:
Grade: 99% (29.6 out of 30 total points)
• Following Directions: 6
• Grammar Skills: 5.9
• Spelling, Punctuation, & Capitalization: 5.7
• Ideas & Content: 6
• Understanding & Application: 6
Overall Level of Skill & Understanding: Strong

Some subjective comments that look like this:
Areas Of Strength & Improvement: EXCELLENT job with your final summary!
There were only two very minor grammatical errors that I was able to pick out, which you can review below.
I also had one suggestion for rearranging the last two sentences of your conclusion, but other than that, you
did a great job.

And corrections and suggestions offered within your actual assignment that look like this:
American Sign Language allows deaf people to become a true part of society. American Sign Language is similar to spoken English, but it is actually its own language. (This ending is great! The only suggestion I would have would be to switch the sentences around so that you conclude with “American Sign Language allows deaf people to become a true part of society.”)

Cons:
I will say that the feedback seems to be weaker if the student is doing really well. Recently Spencer received 100% on an assignment and the feedback: "Fantastic narrative, Spencer. I love that he learned a valuable lesson and saw the fruits of his hard work. Excellent job. I see no mistakes." I felt they could have offered a couple suggestions that stretched him a bit, but they have pretty fixed expectations for each class and don't have a lot to say if the child is already meeting them.

Also, one time (out of many, many classes, we got assigned a teacher who was not qualified. She kept marking all sorts of sentences wrong as run-ons when they weren't. I took the issue to the owner of the company and she fixed it.

I don't know how to help with placement. We have never done any of their grammar classes. We have done a ton of writing classes, from Sentence Stretchers up through The Research Paper. We have also done almost all of the literature classes they offer.  Their class descriptions and syllabi really do outline exactly what is covered in each class, so you can just look at the first class (Sentence Stretchers), see if you think your son has those skills, and if so move up to the next until you find the right level. When we started using Lantern, my oldest was a 5th grader who did not like to write. I actually started him in Sentence Stretchers just to ease him in and solidify basic sentence writing skills. Two years later, he has now aced both their Growing the Essay classes and is working on a Research Paper with them over the summer.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

That was great! So, how tight are the deadlines, what do they look like? Weekly assignments or what? 

[wendyroo]

43 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

That was great! So, how tight are the deadlines, what do they look like? Weekly assignments or what? 

Once you choose a class you get assigned to a teacher who then sends you a welcome letter telling you what day your assignments will arrive and be due. They are always weekly, ie you get an assignment every Tuesday (typically between 8 and 10am) via email, and it is due by midnight the following Tuesday. Assignments are always returned by midnight the day after they are due. So, if you are scheduled for Tuesdays, you will get an assignment on Tuesday morning, send in your previous assignment by Tuesday night (if you haven't done so already), and get your grade report by Wednesday night so that you still have almost an entire week to incorporate that feedback into your new assignment.

As you can see on the syllabi, most of the easier classes do not do revisions. You turn in writing, get feedback, and move on straight to new writing. Though, clearly, you as the parent can insist on revisions if it seems fitting. A couple times when I thought a kiddo rushed through an assignment and didn't put in their best effort, I made them rewrite it based on feedback.

In some of the higher level classes, there are half as many assignments, but they each go through rough and final drafts. 

[Elizabeth86]

46 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

Once you choose a class you get assigned to a teacher who then sends you a welcome letter telling you what day your assignments will arrive and be due. They are always weekly, ie you get an assignment every Tuesday (typically between 8 and 10am) via email, and it is due by midnight the following Tuesday. Assignments are always returned by midnight the day after they are due. So, if you are scheduled for Tuesdays, you will get an assignment on Tuesday morning, send in your previous assignment by Tuesday night (if you haven't done so already), and get your grade report by Wednesday night so that you still have almost an entire week to incorporate that feedback into your new assignment.

As you can see on the syllabi, most of the easier classes do not do revisions. You turn in writing, get feedback, and move on straight to new writing. Though, clearly, you as the parent can insist on revisions if it seems fitting. A couple times when I thought a kiddo rushed through an assignment and didn't put in their best effort, I made them rewrite it based on feedback.

In some of the higher level classes, there are half as many assignments, but they each go through rough and final drafts. 

Are the lessons written to the student or does the parent do the teaching? I don't care either way just curious. The samples looked like it was written for the student.

[wendyroo]

2 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

Are the lessons written to the student or does the parent do the teaching? I don't care either way just curious. The samples looked like it was written for the student.

They are written to the student...however my younger kids sometimes find them a bit overwhelming. Sometimes a lesson covers several topics, and includes examples and non-examples of each, and by the end of reading the 3-5 page lesson, my kiddos have missed the forest for the trees. So I normally read through the lessons with them as long as they need me to, and model highlighting and really digging into the examples to make sure we understand what is good or bad about them.

[Elizabeth86]

3 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

They are written to the student...however my younger kids sometimes find them a bit overwhelming. Sometimes a lesson covers several topics, and includes examples and non-examples of each, and by the end of reading the 3-5 page lesson, my kiddos have missed the forest for the trees. So I normally read through the lessons with them as long as they need me to, and model highlighting and really digging into the examples to make sure we understand what is good or bad about them.

I would definitely be willing to work with him and figured I would. I just wasn't sure if there was a scripted parent lesson or anything. 

[wendyroo]

If it helps, here are a couple examples that my kids have written that show the writing skills Lantern is looking for at different levels. Maybe that will help you place your son.

This got a 99% toward the end of The Paragraph:
The T-Rex is a large, fast, carnivorous dinosaur. The T-Rex has little arms which means it
needs to use its mouth to catch its prey. It also has big legs so it can run quickly. And finally, it eats
other dinosaurs, so it’s a scavenger and hunter. The T-Rex is my favorite dinosaur, and if you see
one then stay away!!

This got 100% toward the end of The Narrative:
A Great Day

     One night, I stayed up way past my bedtime. That night, my mom and I went to a
Beethoven concert. To get ready, I needed to put on a fancy shirt and a sweater. That night
was great.
     After we were ready, we left for the concert. First, we drove to the concert; it was very
cold out and we had to park across the street in a parking garage. Next, we met up with my
piano teachers and we talked while we waited. When it was time we found our seats - they
were great because I could clearly see the piano player. The piano player was awesome. He
played Beethoven concertos; he played for 2 hours all from memory! After the concert was
done, we went back out into the cold to go home.
     I loved that night at the concert. But, the greatness didn’t stop there because there
were more Beethoven concertos to listen to! The next night we went back and heard some
more. In the end, I didn’t just have one great day, but two great nights at the symphony!

This got a 97% toward the end of Essay Basics:
My Role Model
     Can you believe that my role model has been the number 1 chess player in the world since 2013, won 4 world championships, and achieved the rank of Grand Master at the age of 13? The one person who fits all of these requirements is Magnus Carlsen. He is my role model because he is a world champion chess player, Famous Grand Master, and has only been beaten by a highly advanced computer once.
    The first reason that Magnus Carlsen is my role model is that he is  a world champion. He has beaten all other chess players at least once if he has played them at all. He has a chess rating of 2,872, making him the highest rated player in the world. He has also won four world championships. Magnus Carlsen is an amazing chess player.
    Carlsen is much more than just a tournament winner. He is also a famous Grand Master. He became a Grand Master in 2004 and has been ever since. He was born in 1991, meaning that he was only thirteen years old, only about a year older than me, when he became a Grand Master! To become a Grand Master you need a rating of 2,500, and I am only at about 1,500! Magnus Carlsen’s skill is immense even though he is only thirty years old.
    Magnus Carlsen’s skill against humans may seem extraordinary, but what is even more impressive is that he is better than a super advanced computer. In a six-game tournament against the computer Deep Blue, he only lost one time and drew twice for a score of 4-2 in his favor. Deep Blue was the most advanced chess computer of the time. Magnus Carlsen seems almost impossible to beat.
    Because he is a world champion chess player, ultimate Grand Master and better than even the best of chess computers, Magnus Carlsen is my role model. I really want to be as good of a chess player as Magnus Carlsen. He has been my role model ever since I heard of him and will be until I get as good as he is. Until then though, I will just keep practicing. Checkmate!

And this got a 98% toward the end of Growing the Essay:
Dubai: The Best Vacation

Did you know that there are man-made islands that are arranged to look like the Earth and a palm tree? Those are
the Palm Islands and World Islands in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Of all the places in the world, I would visit this
city. It boasts many stunning attractions that will sweep you away.

Location is what makes Dubai one of the greatest cities in the world. The weather is hot in summer, but it does not snow
often. The temperature can reach more than one hundred degrees Fahrenheit during the summer months. Even in the
winter, it reaches temperatures in the high seventies. Dubai is sunny all year round. The city is coastal, and borders the
Persian Gulf. The climate and coastline are what make this city so great.

Because Dubai is a coastal city, there are lots of things to do in and around the water, even though only twenty years ago
the area was a desert. You can relax on one of the many beaches and swim in the warm gulf waters. If you prefer to
stay dry, you could take a yacht tour. Riding a speed boat is also an option for the adventurous. The hot climate makes
the beaches of Dubai excellent.

Dubai hardly ever sees snow, yet it has the largest indoor ski resort in the world! The distance traveled downhill is almost
a quarter of a mile! Ski Dubai, as the resort is called, is part of the Mall of the Emirates, which also happens to be one of
the biggest malls in the world. Having an indoor ski resort keeps winter people happy, even though outside, it is eighty
degrees hotter.

As well as the largest indoor ski resort in the world, in Dubai you will find the tallest building in the world, which is
designed after a flower. At two thousand, seven hundred and seventeen feet tall, the Burj Khalifa towers over all other
buildings. If you are not afraid of heights, there is a restaurant on the one hundred and twenty-second floor. Its name
is The Atmosphere Grill & Lounge, and it offers French and European cuisine. There are also gluten-free, vegetarian, and
vegan options. On the one hundred and forty-eighth floor is the At The Top sky observatory.

From the Burj Khalifa’s observatory, you can see the most famous islands of all, the Palm Islands and the World
Islands. They are man-made islands which are shaped like a palm tree and a world map. Jutting out into the Persian
Gulf, the Palm Islands were built between 2001 and 2006, and have hotels and other buildings on them. The World
Islands are finished, but do not have many buildings yet. There are plenty of things to do on the Palm Islands. There is
an aquarium, called The Lost Chambers Aquarium, that houses tropical fish and offers diving classes. You can also
take a helicopter ride over the islands. Visitors can even skydive over the islands! There are also hotels, some of
which have views of the fish in the aquarium, so you can stay for multiple days.

Dubai in the United Arab Emirates would be my ideal vacation spot. There are many exciting opportunities to
enjoy. Also, even though the city is located in the Middle East, an area known for violence against foreigners, Dubai is
entirely safe to visit. This is amazing because there are about seven times as many foreigners than there are natives in the
city. I hope that you do go someday.

[kiwik]

We have used them a lot.  We are taking a break this year to consolidate skills.  My son has the writing issues which seem common to kids with ASD so we are repeating with a different resource to try and increase independence.  We will likely go back and pick up English 3 after that.

 

EtA.  For the price the course has very good feedback and support.  Most classes of similar cost do not include feedback at all.

Edited June 23, 2022 by kiwik

[mom31257]

My ds did a couple of classes with them. I feel like they were a good experience for the price. 

[saraha]

I have really appreciated them. We used them mostly for high school and it was completely hands off for me, which is what we needed. I do have strong reader/writers though.

[PIE!]

On 6/14/2022 at 5:13 PM, wendyroo said:

It certainly isn't the end all, be all, perfect class...but it has always been good enough that I keep coming back.

Pros:
The feedback is normally pretty good, and in our experience has always been very prompt (received the day after each assignment is due to give you plenty of time to make modifications to the next week's assignment. There are three types of feedback:

An analytical grade that looks like this:
Grade: 99% (29.6 out of 30 total points)
• Following Directions: 6
• Grammar Skills: 5.9
• Spelling, Punctuation, & Capitalization: 5.7
• Ideas & Content: 6
• Understanding & Application: 6
Overall Level of Skill & Understanding: Strong

Some subjective comments that look like this:
Areas Of Strength & Improvement: EXCELLENT job with your final summary!
There were only two very minor grammatical errors that I was able to pick out, which you can review below.
I also had one suggestion for rearranging the last two sentences of your conclusion, but other than that, you
did a great job.

And corrections and suggestions offered within your actual assignment that look like this:
American Sign Language allows deaf people to become a true part of society. American Sign Language is similar to spoken English, but it is actually its own language. (This ending is great! The only suggestion I would have would be to switch the sentences around so that you conclude with “American Sign Language allows deaf people to become a true part of society.”)

Cons:
I will say that the feedback seems to be weaker if the student is doing really well. Recently Spencer received 100% on an assignment and the feedback: "Fantastic narrative, Spencer. I love that he learned a valuable lesson and saw the fruits of his hard work. Excellent job. I see no mistakes." I felt they could have offered a couple suggestions that stretched him a bit, but they have pretty fixed expectations for each class and don't have a lot to say if the child is already meeting them.

Also, one time (out of many, many classes, we got assigned a teacher who was not qualified. She kept marking all sorts of sentences wrong as run-ons when they weren't. I took the issue to the owner of the company and she fixed it.

I don't know how to help with placement. We have never done any of their grammar classes. We have done a ton of writing classes, from Sentence Stretchers up through The Research Paper. We have also done almost all of the literature classes they offer.  Their class descriptions and syllabi really do outline exactly what is covered in each class, so you can just look at the first class (Sentence Stretchers), see if you think your son has those skills, and if so move up to the next until you find the right level. When we started using Lantern, my oldest was a 5th grader who did not like to write. I actually started him in Sentence Stretchers just to ease him in and solidify basic sentence writing skills. Two years later, he has now aced both their Growing the Essay classes and is working on a Research Paper with them over the summer.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thank you so much for all this detail! I just signed dd up for an 8-week course and this helps me have a better idea of what to expect.

[ktgrok]

oh man, looks like enrollment ended yesterday - I might be interested in the grammar courses. I emailed to ask if they were still open. 

[Ting Tang]

Those with Lantern English experience:  have you received feedback for your reluctant/careless/uninspired writers?

My son is working through MCT Town level.  His writing is very BLAH and basic, and my husband and I agree we wrote better in the 5th grade. Previously, he completed Memoria Press Classical Composition Fable, where they replaced words with synonyms and wrote sentence variations. I loved that part of the curriculum. He didn't, and I thought the MCT approach might be better.  Despite exposure to beautiful language, his writing is lacking from a content perspective.

I think it is partly due to him just wanting to get through his work.  He is bright and smart.  I am starting to question his academic integrity, though. He plagiarized once from a video, and I am almost certain he took a quick at his words look while I walked away for a quick moment during his spelling test.  I don't want him getting away with poor quality work because he is homeschooled--and he's been pushing the envelope for sure. He just thinks I am mean.

I am considering backtracking in the writing area and trying Lantern.  But only if the editors/teachers/TAs are going to be critical and truthful to give him the push to try harder.  Does this exist?  Any other suggestions? 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Ting Tang

[wendyroo]

43 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Those with Lantern English experience:  have you received feedback for your reluctant/careless/uninspired writers?

My son is working through MCT Town level.  His writing is very BLAH and basic, and my husband and I agree we wrote better in the 5th grade. Previously, he completed Memoria Press Classical Composition Fable, where they replaced words with synonyms and wrote sentence variations. I loved that part of the curriculum. He didn't, and I thought the MCT approach might be better.  Despite exposure to beautiful language, his writing is lacking from a content perspective.

I think it is partly due to him just wanting to get through his work.  He is bright and smart.  I am starting to question his academic integrity, though. He plagiarized once from a video, and I am almost certain he took a quick at his words look while I walked away for a quick moment during his spelling test.  I don't want him getting away with poor quality work because he is homeschooled--and he's been pushing the envelope for sure. 

I am considering backtracking in the writing area and trying Lantern.  But only if the editors/teachers/TAs are going to be critical and truthful to give him the push to try harder.  Does this exist?  Any other suggestions? 

 

Definitely the teachers will be truthful - they will grade based on the rubric, even if that results in a low grade.

But "critical"...I'm not sure. All our Lantern feedback has emphasized whatever the student did well in the assignment, and explained how they could have fixed their weaknesses. Certainly never a critical, "you should have done better" vibe.

And they also don't really "push to try harder". The grades speak for themselves, and it is up to the student and parents to decide if the given grades motivate them to try harder or not.

Our Lantern feedback has always been very matter of fact and constructive. -Here is what you did well. -Here is exactly what you struggled with and suggestions for making it better. -Here is a quantitative measurement of your performance compared to our goals for this class.

I also don't know to what extent the teachers would catch plagiarism. They talk about it a lot, and give lots of concrete instructions and examples to help students avoid it. And in their summarizing class they can obviously check for plagiarism because they are providing the source material. But I don't think they are necessarily running every assignment through a plagiarism checker.

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, wendyroo said:

Definitely the teachers will be truthful - they will grade based on the rubric, even if that results in a low grade.

But "critical"...I'm not sure. All our Lantern feedback has emphasized whatever the student did well in the assignment, and explained how they could have fixed their weaknesses. Certainly never a critical, "you should have done better" vibe.

And they also don't really "push to try harder". The grades speak for themselves, and it is up to the student and parents to decide if the given grades motivate them to try harder or not.

Our Lantern feedback has always been very matter of fact and constructive. -Here is what you did well. -Here is exactly what you struggled with and suggestions for making it better. -Here is a quantitative measurement of your performance compared to our goals for this class.

I also don't know to what extent the teachers would catch plagiarism. They talk about it a lot, and give lots of concrete instructions and examples to help students avoid it. And in their summarizing class they can obviously check for plagiarism because they are providing the source material. But I don't think they are necessarily running every assignment through a plagiarism checker.

Thanks so much! Constructive criticism will be much appreciated; I’m sure they have to be kind in their approach, but I just feel like we need someone else to give him feedback right now. Maybe he will be more motivated. I think we’d start with the sentence curriculum. 

[Nm.]

@Ting Tang  Does he type yet?  How do you break up the writing assignments?  How rock solid is his grammar so far?  

[Ting Tang]

8 hours ago, Lovinglife123 said:

@Ting Tang  Does he type yet?  How do you break up the writing assignments?  How rock solid is his grammar so far?  

He’s so stubborn he claims he knows how to properly type, lol. He’s dabbled on free software typing programs, but we really haven’t started anything concrete. I wanted to start soon. His grammar analysis is pretty good, thanks to MCT. I think it’s an effort thing, but he may need even more direct scaffolding. I have just been following the MCT schedule, which I do not find heavy at all. When he has to add to or vary sentences, he does well. But if he has to come up with his own paragraph from scratch, blah. 

[Nm.]

@Ting Tang I understand.  Hopefully he just needs some maturity.  Lots of boys (not all) can be like that.  He has a lot of years to work on it!  I need to start spending more time with my oldest- coming up with ideas & outlines for writing.  

Edited February 5, 2023 by Lovinglife123

[Ting Tang]

11 hours ago, Lovinglife123 said:

@Ting Tang I understand.  Hopefully he just needs some maturity.  Lots of boys (not all) can be like that.  He has a lot of years to work on it!  I need to start spending more time with my oldest- coming up with ideas & outlines for writing.  

That's what I am gathering, lol.  My husband and I were very obedient and good students.  We get very frustrated with our son because we cannot relate to his attitude.  

We tried some free sentence worksheets on Friday that went well.  I still don't quite understand the Write by Number curriculum because it feels like it would take a while to get to the good sentence stuff, but it says gaps will happen if you skip around.  I could try these things before we tried the Lantern English since the next session doesn't start until March.  I do not remember being taught how to write per se at this age. I do believe I was asked to write often in public school.  I know some philosophies don't think kids should write at all until the latter elementary years.

[Nm.]

@Ting Tang outsourcing is worth a try!  I’ve really enjoyed using funschooling journals.  Long story short- some are on super sale right now! https://www.facebook.com/thethinkingtree/posts/pfbid02grdq7qqgq2NYm7ksf2J3SjucKE6eiGtyWZziF9tbmqJGhnVh9idDwg2vz5tEkFH7l 
maybe he has a special interest?  There’s a living on mars one, bugs, etc.  

[MaryP]

Hi,

I just looked into the Lantern English Company and I have missed the deadline to sign up, classes have already started.  Is there a way to purchase the curriculum without the grading since it is already full for the whole year?  

 

[Green Bean]

No, the curriculum is only available in the format of emailed weekly lessons and feedback from a teacher. They have classes starting pretty much every 8 weeks so sign up for their email alerts and get in for the next session.