Omicron anecdata?

[kbutton]

4 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

How is the experience at Walgreens?

Walgreens doesn’t keep the database updated, but at peak shot time, that probably doesn’t matter. It did matter when we booked boosters, and they told us when we showed up that what they had was expired.

I wonder if CVS doesn’t know how much of either shot they are getting or hasn’t allocated it to individual stores yet.

[mommyoffive]

7 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

Thank you! Costco is unfortunately quite a drive for us...How is the experience at Walgreens? They allow you to pick the vaccine (few locations offer Moderna around here). It really looks like you can't pick a vax anymore at CVS...

Also, the younger kids (under 12) are again left behind for now it appears, even though they are the ones starting school.

Costco is a drive for us too.  Although we could do it when closer to one for activities.  We just never had.  

Sad to hear about the under 12 being unavailable.  That stinks.

At our Walgreens you can pick which shot you want and they take you into a private room off to the side of the pharmacy.  And they were always masked even when the same person would be working behind the pharmacy not masked.     

[mommyoffive]

https://insidemedicine.substack.com/p/fall-covid-19-boosters-are-here-heres?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1183526&post_id=148024883&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

[KSera]

19 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

https://insidemedicine.substack.com/p/fall-covid-19-boosters-are-here-heres?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1183526&post_id=148024883&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

I don’t subscribe so can’t see what he is planning. He had Covid recently, so I would expect he’s waiting. I understand his concern about getting vaccinated now and being less protected for the predicted big winter wave, but for most people with kids returning to school in the middle of a wave, I don’t see how being unprotected now and thus getting sick with a year since last vaccination would be preferable to being protected now and being just a few months out during the winter wave. I mean, I wish there was a way to be protected for both, but since there’s not, I think being protected now seems wise (for anyone who didn’t get covid in the last four months). 

[KSera]

ThreadReader formatted post from Dr Zyad Al-Aly on the massive surge in disability and especially cognitive disability since 2021. It’s been obvious this was coming, but oof, seeing it in the numbers to this degree is awful 😞. 
A Significant surge in the number of people with a disability in the U.S.

The phrase, “we’re in the middle of a massive disabling event“ is clearly not hyperbole. 

[Mom_to3]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

ThreadReader formatted post from Dr Zyad Al-Aly on the massive surge in disability and especially cognitive disability since 2021. It’s been obvious this was coming, but oof, seeing it in the numbers to this degree is awful 😞. 
A Significant surge in the number of people with a disability in the U.S.

The phrase, “we’re in the middle of a massive disabling event“ is clearly not hyperbole. 

Yes - thank you for posting. And in addition to those who now have a cognitive disability, how many more will have slightly lower cognitive function? How will this affect innovation? Productivity? Student learning? It will be impossible to measure the potentially dramatic long-term costs to a functioning society. When will we pivot, if ever, and take this for the serious threat it is?

[Amoret]

On the Covid ‘Off-Ramp’: No Tests, Isolation or Masks NYT archive

For many, Covid is increasingly regarded like the common cold. A scratchy throat and canceled plans bring a bewildering new critique from friends: You shouldn’t have tested.
Jason Moyer was days away from a family road trip to visit his parents when his 10-year-old son woke up with a fever and cough.
Covid?
The prospect threatened to upend the family’s plans.
“Six months ago, we would have tested for Covid,” said Mr. Moyer, 41, an academic administrator in Canton, Ohio. This time they did not.
Instead, they checked to make sure the boy’s cough was improving and his fever was gone — and then set off for New Jersey, not bothering to tell the grandparents about the incident.

...

“We’ve decided, ‘Well, the risk is OK.’ But nobody has defined ‘risk,’ and nobody has defined ‘OK,’” Dr. Osterholm said.

[KSera]

40 minutes ago, Amoret said:

On the Covid ‘Off-Ramp’: No Tests, Isolation or Masks NYT archive

My word. The number of thoughts and emotions reading that. First, lets jump to the buried sentence in the middle that's one of the few in the article that actually speaks to the true risk that exists for everyone exposed to covid:

Quote

Long Covid, a multifaceted syndrome, has afflicted at least 400 million people worldwide, researchers recently estimated, and most of those who have suffered from it have said they still have not recovered.

Has anyone done the math on 400 million people? That is 5 percent of the world population. And is almost certainly an undercount. But even taking it as 5%, that is a tremendous risk people are taking over and over again and passing off as "just a cold." One of the problems with people understanding that risk is that a large number of people with long covid just disappear from people's lives. They can't participate any more, therefore they are not visible to people, and many of their previous acquaintances are likely to have no idea what has happened to them. So when someone thinks, "I don't know anyone with long covid," that's almost certainly untrue, based on numbers alone. Everyone knows some people who have mild versions of it and may not even realize that's what they are, and I postulate everyone is connected to someone debilitated by it, but many may not know--it's not like people who don't have the ability to even shower anymore are using their precious energy to notify all their acquaintances that they are homebound due to long covid.

Then there are all of these kind of quote:

Quote

Certain threats remain clear. For vulnerable groups, the coronavirus will always present a heightened risk of serious infection and even death.

Quote

Epidemiologists said in interviews that they do not endorse a lackadaisical approach, particularly for those spending time around older people and those who are immunocompromised.

Quote

“I don’t bother testing myself or our kids for Covid,” said Sarah Bernath, 46, a librarian on Prince Edward Island in Canada. “My husband doesn’t test himself either. Knowing if it’s Covid wouldn’t change whether I stay home or not.”

[warning: rant ahead] Can anyone guess how people who are disabled or immunocompromised or otherwise at high risk feel repeatedly hearing things like this? They feel that people just don't care about them, don't think their life matters, and it's worth exposing them and letting them suffer or die so they can continue to pretend covid is not a problem. Alternatively, that it's fine for disabled, immunocompromised, chronically ill and elderly people to have to stay home permanently and forego enjoyable activities or even healthcare so that the (currently*) healthy don't have to take any precautions themself. (*the sad irony being that 5%+ of those currently healthy will soon join the ranks of the high risk and find out just how much this sucks) I'm at the point I don't want to hear anyone talking about how they care about their communities and being allies of the vulnerable if they're not wearing a mask indoors in public. That goes quadruply so for anyone going into places of healthcare without wearing a mask. You're making it so that vulnerable people can't get the healthcare they desperately need because they are having to weigh leaving their medical needs untreated vs getting covid and becoming even more sick or disabled. I'm not pulling any of this out of the air, this is what I hear daily from people grappling with being at high risk during a pandemic that "healthy" people want to ignore and pretend is over. It's completely demoralizing for people to feel disposable in this way.

Quote

Epidemiologists have long predicted that Covid would eventually become an endemic disease, rather than a pandemic.

And also, just to address this once again, endemic does not mean harmless. TB is endemic in some parts of the world, as is malaria. People need to stop throwing around "it's endemic now" as a reason they can pretend it's not a risk anymore.

This has been a complete and utter failure of public health to do public health. I think if they had stayed the course instead of caving, we could have had a good third of the population or more continuing to understand the risks and taking appropriate precautions to protect themselves and others until we had better solutions. We'd probably even have clean air standards by now. Perhaps because of the way this virus impacts the brain it's not even completely their fault they've abdicated responsibility. I really don't know.

[KSera]

Oh! And I didn't even get to the Olympics part! Laughable that the NYT's take home message from this Olympics was that covid no longer had an impact. There were multiple people who had to pull out prior to competition because they hadn't recovered from a previous covid infection, and others who struggled and competed below their typical level because they were sick. Just yesterday I read about yet another one, Malaika Mihambo, of Germany:

Malaika Mihambo Breaks Down In Tears Before Being Taken Away On Wheelchair Post Silver Win At Paris Olympics

She had covid two months prior and was struggling to return to her previous level of performance. So yes, she managed to pull out a silver medal somehow. (was expected to take gold), but is paying the price and I read a couple days ago that she has had to pull out of her next competition now as well, but I'm having trouble finding where I read it.

It's a horrible message to send that people can win medals while actively sick with covid, so everyone clearly should be able to go about normal life with it. The evidence strongly suggests that pushing through increases the risks for long covid. Many long covid stories start with highly active, athletic people describing how they were feeling better after their covid infection so went for a long hike/did a hard training/went for a long run and their body completely failed and they have never been the same since.

[Amoret]

Yes, I could not have imagined a "pick your poison" scenario like this nightmare that the collective response has become.

From here:

People seem to have lost the ability to differentiate between worrying about something and being concerned about something.

Worry is bad, generally. It's mostly unhealthy, unless it's a spur to action.

But concern is sensible, serious, and healthy.

But people are often throwing out concern along with worry.

They try to stop worry by ignoring the problem or downplaying the problem or denying the problem.

When worry should be addressed and allowed to lead to sensible concern.

And measured thought.

And wise planning.

And practical action.

Concern is healthy and lifegiving.

It's not the same as worry.

It's different to anxiety.

It's different to panic.

Practise concern.
Practise compassion.
Practise wisdom.
Practise life.

And learn what's truly positive.

[KSera]

44 minutes ago, Amoret said:

From here:

I haven't read from that account in awhile. Following your link I saw this other recent post that hits so close to home here. Except it's been two years.

Quote

I met a lady last week in a very sad situation.

It felt like it was all summed up by her bike.

This time last summer she bought herself a road bike to train to cycle from Land's End to John o' Groats.

Then she caught 'a nasty virus' in October.

 

She seemed back to normal a month later.
If it was covid (and by the sound of it, it was covid) it would have been her fourth infection.

 

The other three infections were all more 'mild' (and chest/nose/throat, whereas this one was very stomachy) with no significantly notable lasting effects apart from long term reduction in taste and smell.

Then after six weeks, the fatigue kicked in simultaneously with heart problems.
Over the coming months, she developed a string of chemical sensitivities and food intolerances.

 

Her blood pressure, that had previously been great, rose dramatically.
She wasn't overweight, didn't drink, didn't smoke, had a very healthy diet, had been exercising well up to that point.

 

And then her joints started to give her increasing pain.

 

And so, with tears in her eyes, she said she was going to give away her expensive road bike to someone who could use it, because she thought she never would now.

 

I tried to dissuade her, that she could see it as a focus for hope and recovery, but she said that every time she saw it, it made her angry.

 

She was fixed on the idea that the virus she had in October last year wasn't covid, because the infection was so different to her other infections.

 

When I described to her the common symptoms of BA.2.86, the variant prevalent in October last year, that was frequently causing stomach symptoms, she looked crestfallen.

 

For some reason, she wanted her chronic illness to have been caused by something like a 'gastric flu or norovirus', as she put it.

 

And that's the bit I don't understand fully.

People wanted to pretend that Covid was going to stop doing what Covid always does:
Cause some people to have long term health problems.

 

So then when they catch Covid and develop long term health problems, they want to blame something else.

 

Because they chose to live with the risk of Covid?
I don't know.

 

Does it ease their mental pain to keep pretending covid is not the problem?

 

Is lying to ourselves now so deeply ingrained in western culture that it's our first choice in all situations?

 

Meanwhile, she's selling her bike, because she's so angry every time she sees it.

 

Don't spread Covid, folks.

 

THIS SCENARIO ISN'T RARE! It feels helpless to keep seeing more and more people fall into it and have even public health not doing much to prevent it. One recent study found by the time someone recovers from their third covid infection, there's a 40% chance they have developed long covid. You do not want to get covid over and over! Yes, it sucks to wear masks. It sucks even more when no one else is. But the more people that do, the more dramatically the risk falls off and maybe we can all make it through to a sterilizing vaccine and clean air standards without millions more disabled. Because as much as being the lone masker sucks, being stuck home on your couch and bed and unable to participate in life at all or even work sucks even more.

[mommyoffive]

https://caitlinrivers.substack.com/p/outbreak-outlook-aug-26?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1017072&post_id=148139492&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

[mommyoffive]

https://thosenerdygirls.substack.com/p/updated-covid-vaccines-are-approved?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=366170&post_id=148161668&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

[mommyoffive]

https://longcovidweekly.substack.com/p/long-covid-weekly-105-retractions?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=999185&post_id=148175061&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

[KSera]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

https://longcovidweekly.substack.com/p/long-covid-weekly-105-retractions?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=999185&post_id=148175061&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

I want to call out this study on people who lose their smell during covid as particularly interesting:

Patients recovering from COVID-19 who presented with anosmia during their acute episode have behavioral, functional, and structural brain alterations

Key points:

• Anosmia correlates with cognitive alterations, such as increased impulsivity and decreased brain activity.

• Unlike hospitalization, anosmia is linked to reduced cortical thickness and compromised white matter integrity.

• Anosmia may indicate neurological involvement in Covid-19, even in mild cases.

 

We have known that loss of smell was an indication of neurological impact, but I don't think people have generally been thinking/considering the fact that this means their brain may be impacted in other ways, and the loss of smell is just the one most apparent to them.

[Kanin]

On 8/27/2024 at 2:52 PM, KSera said:

When I described to her the common symptoms of BA.2.86, the variant prevalent in October last year, that was frequently causing stomach symptoms, she looked crestfallen.

 

For some reason, she wanted her chronic illness to have been caused by something like a 'gastric flu or norovirus', as she put it.

That makes me feel really sad 😞

[mommyoffive]

https://www.today.com/health/coronavirus/covid-back-to-school-guidelines-2024-rcna167239

Michael Hoerger, Ph.D., associate professor at Tulane University, who leads the U.S.'s top COVID forecasting dashboard, shared in a Aug. 19 post on X: "We’re at 1.3 million infections/day in the U.S. This is the highest known transmission during back-to-school season all-time. An estimated 1 in 24 people in the West region are actively infectious."

[kbutton]

10 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

https://www.today.com/health/coronavirus/covid-back-to-school-guidelines-2024-rcna167239

Michael Hoerger, Ph.D., associate professor at Tulane University, who leads the U.S.'s top COVID forecasting dashboard, shared in a Aug. 19 post on X: "We’re at 1.3 million infections/day in the U.S. This is the highest known transmission during back-to-school season all-time. An estimated 1 in 24 people in the West region are actively infectious."

They mentioned masking! It was kind of halting, but it’s about time!

[mommyoffive]

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/top-6-questions-answered-about-fall?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=281219&post_id=148147800&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

[Amoret]

“Does Long COVID Lead to Alzheimer’s? A New Study Took an Unexpected Turn” [Being Patient]. “The researchers looked at a group of participants from COVID recovery clinics, comparing 100 without any cognitive complaints, 79 who had abnormal results on a cognitive assessment indicating cognitive impairment, and 57 who complained about cognitive issues even though they scored normally on a cognitive test. Hu and his colleagues took cerebrospinal fluid and blood from both groups of people with cognitive complaints to measure protein biomarkers and look at what genes the immune cells are turning on or off to see whether there was an overlap with Alzheimer’s disease. ‘We did not find significant numbers of people with Alzheimer’s disease markers in the cerebrospinal fluid,’ Hu said. ‘The many molecular pathways being active in Long COVID do not correspond to Alzheimer’s disease.’ But nine months after the initial infection, what the researchers did notice was that the immune cells behaved as if they were still fighting off a viral infection. About 50 percent of the cognitively impaired participants showed slow improvement after two years. The participants whose immune cells mounted an interferon response — a pathway used by the immune system to fight viruses — showed cognitive improvement. ‘One of the key findings is that we see the immune cells in the cerebrospinal fluid, recruiting cells to fight infection,’ Hu said. ‘So that tells me that the infection is in the brain.'”

[Amoret]

Leave Those Kids Alone: Bullying a child for wearing a mask exposes a stark hypocrisy in some people's view of personal freedom. (The John Snow Project)

“Replace mask with turban, hijab, crucifix or Star of David and see how you feel about the victimized child and the people who’ve been bullying them. Talk to members of the COVID-safe community and you’ll understand that this sort of bullying is commonplace…. The ignorant among us believe infection is a good thing, that it trains the immune system and makes us stronger. We’ve previously written about the error of this belief9. If infection made us stronger, the areas of the world that have the most disease would have the best population health and life expectancy. The opposite is true… Instead of bullying a child strong enough to be the only person wearing a mask in school, those being cruel should show some humility and confront the possibility the child might be better informed about human health or have private reasons for continuing to be cautious. Public health bodies and public institutions should do more to protect personal choice and prevent bullying and stigmatization for masking. After all, we are living in a world of individual responsibility and an individual should not be penalized for choosing to be responsible.”

[KSera]

3 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/top-6-questions-answered-about-fall?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=281219&post_id=148147800&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

It strikes me that shifting to a May/November release of vaccines would allow people to have peak protection through summer, that wasn't completely gone by the time school started in Fall and then again November for the holidays and winter wave. That would be for every 6 month people, of course. Once a year people would have to choose the timing that maximized their protection with their highest risk times.

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Amoret said:

Instead of bullying a child strong enough to be the only person wearing a mask in school

This is something that can't be understated. There are still people referring to "sheep" wearing masks, which is the most laughable claim considering how often someone in a mask is the only one doing so, and the degree of steeling oneself to not following the rest of the crowd that is necessary to do that day after day. I check in with my kids frequently how they're doing with the masking thing, and the main thing they wish is that they weren't the only one, but it's not worth it to them to get covid just so they can fit in. Fortunately, most of them have not received much negativity about it. My most high risk kid is the only one who has had some significant social fall out, which really shows how people suck sometimes. People expect other people to permanently risk their health for their sake but aren't willing to just wear a mask for couple hours to protect the other person instead.

3 hours ago, Amoret said:

those being cruel should show some humility and confront the possibility the child might be better informed about human health or have private reasons for continuing to be cautious

I was at the store the other day and besides us, the only other person I saw in a mask was a physically disabled older man who clearly had health conditions. He was struggling just to walk with his cane--very, very slow, and it just made me so profoundly sad that people who are very much at risk from the high levels of virus currently circulating are left to fend for themselves. He was trying with his mask, and just to know there are people cheering at removing people's rights to protect themselves with a mask, never mind ever considering masking up themselves to protect people, just makes me so sad. Like, what if we were a society where in the very least, people carried a mask in their pocket or bag and when they saw someone else wearing one, they just quietly put it on under the assumption that someone wearing a mask probably has a reason and their life and health matters. What a difference that would make.

[Corraleno]

Dr. Roger Seheult at MedCram just dropped a really excellent 25 minute video full of data on the effect of sunlight and infrared on covid. I would really encourage everyone to watch the whole thing; he begins by explaining the mechanisms involved, cites the research, and discusses a case in which a seriously ill covid patient who was declining rapidly went from being on the highest possible dose of 100% oxygen and thinking he was dying to needing zero oxygen and being discharged from the hospital 5 days later after being treated with 20-30 minutes of direct sunlight per day.  Really really interesting stuff, and something everyone can do at home for free, both as a treatment and preventive.

 

Edited August 30 by Corraleno

[KSera]

18 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Dr. Roger Seheult at MedCram just dropped a really excellent 25 minute video full of data on the effect of sunlight and far infrared on covid. I would really encourage everyone to watch the whole thing; he begins by explaining the mechanisms involved, cites the research, and discusses a case in which a seriously ill covid patient who was declining rapidly went from being on the highest possible dose of 100% oxygen and thinking he was dying to needing zero oxygen and being discharged from the hospital 5 days later after being treated with 20-30 minutes of direct sunlight per day.  Really really interesting stuff, and something everyone can do at home for free, both as a treatment and preventive.

 

Sounds crazy, but I will totally watch this! I’ve actually had an infrared light in my Amazon cart for a long time after hearing many people say it helped them, but I just haven’t felt like I had seen enough research to pull the trigger on it. One tricky thing is that sunlight is not an uncommon mast cell trigger for some people with long Covid, so that makes it hard. But maybe the infrared light will be more tolerable. thanks for sharing and I will definitely watch.

I haven’t even watched this yet, but based on your post, I’m wondering how this makes sense with the big summer wave we’re having. I wonder if that wave is any worse in areas of the country where it’s been too hot for people to be outside in the sun much. And then of course there’s sunblock.

[Corraleno]

19 hours ago, KSera said:

Sounds crazy, but I will totally watch this! I’ve actually had an infrared light in my Amazon cart for a long time after hearing many people say it helped them, but I just haven’t felt like I had seen enough research to pull the trigger on it. One tricky thing is that sunlight is not an uncommon mast cell trigger for some people with long Covid, so that makes it hard. But maybe the infrared light will be more tolerable. thanks for sharing and I will definitely watch.

I haven’t even watched this yet, but based on your post, I’m wondering how this makes sense with the big summer wave we’re having. I wonder if that wave is any worse in areas of the country where it’s been too hot for people to be outside in the sun much. And then of course there’s sunblock.

The fact that the current wave is just as high as many of the previous winter waves, while hospitalizations are much lower, may be at least partially related to greater sun exposure. They found a connection between sun exposure and flu as well.

One of the studies he discusses was an RCT in Brazil with 30 hospitalized covid patients randomized to either a treatment group, who got 15 mins/day of treatment with an infrared "vest," or to a control group, who wore the same vest for 15 mins/day but it was not turned on. The treatment group did significantly better on every measure, including being discharged from the hospital an average of 4 days earlier. Below is an illustration from the video, and I tracked down the actual study here.
 

Edited August 30 by Corraleno

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Dr. Roger Seheult at MedCram just dropped a really excellent 25 minute video full of data on the effect of sunlight and far infrared on covid. I would really encourage everyone to watch the whole thing; he begins by explaining the mechanisms involved, cites the research, and discusses a case in which a seriously ill covid patient who was declining rapidly went from being on the highest possible dose of 100% oxygen and thinking he was dying to needing zero oxygen and being discharged from the hospital 5 days later after being treated with 20-30 minutes of direct sunlight per day.  Really really interesting stuff, and something everyone can do at home for free, both as a treatment and preventive.

 

That was super interesting, thanks! The focus on the impact on mitochondria is hugely relevant for those with long COVID. Makes me think the people who have reported infrared light to be the only thing that improved their PEM may be on to something. 
 

The non COVID related parts on sun exposure are very interesting as well. 

[Mom_to3]

https://journals.aai.org/immunohorizons/article/8/8/577/267113/Mild-Primary-or-Breakthrough-SARS-CoV-2-Infection

Not good. Again. Why don't articles like this make front page news?

[Pawz4me]

3 hours ago, Mom_to3 said:

https://journals.aai.org/immunohorizons/article/8/8/577/267113/Mild-Primary-or-Breakthrough-SARS-CoV-2-Infection

Not good. Again. Why don't articles like this make front page news?

I'm not good at interpreting studies, but is there really anything new there? For a very long time (long before Covid) it's been known that viral infections can be triggers for autoimmune rheumatic diseases.

Edited August 30 by Pawz4me

[mommyoffive]

https://insidemedicine.substack.com/p/breaking-news-wegovy-lowered-covid?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1183526&post_id=148163565&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

[mommyoffive]

11 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Dr. Roger Seheult at MedCram just dropped a really excellent 25 minute video full of data on the effect of sunlight and far infrared on covid. I would really encourage everyone to watch the whole thing; he begins by explaining the mechanisms involved, cites the research, and discusses a case in which a seriously ill covid patient who was declining rapidly went from being on the highest possible dose of 100% oxygen and thinking he was dying to needing zero oxygen and being discharged from the hospital 5 days later after being treated with 20-30 minutes of direct sunlight per day.  Really really interesting stuff, and something everyone can do at home for free, both as a treatment and preventive.

 

Thanks for sharing that was interesting and something I will focus on more.  My question is that with daylight shrinking where I am plus our weather is we will go long periods of time without seeing the sun.  Is it worth getting an infrared light to use in winter and when you have a week of cloudy weather?

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm not good at interpreting studies, but is there really anything new there? For a very long time (long before Covid) it's been known that viral infections can be triggers for autoimmune rheumatic diseases.

I think this adds to the knowledge base for sure. It found that autoimmunity was commonly found after even mild cases and in people with and without symptoms of PASC (aka long COVID), but much higher autoantibodies in those with PASC symptoms, including those with neuro symptoms. It also found that being vaccinated didn’t alter this. It adds to the growing consensus that long COVID appears to be an autoimmune disease. Or, at least some presentations so, since we may be looking at a combination of different post viral diseases people get that we are lumping together as long Covid. 

[KSera]

I don’t have time to unpack this yet, but this dropped yesterday and looks potentially very important:

Fibrin drives thromboinflammation and neuropathology in COVID-19

Take home:

Quote

 

Here we show that fibrin binds to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, forming proinflammatory blood clots that drive systemic thromboinflammation and neuropathology in COVID-19. Fibrin, acting through its inflammatory domain, is required for oxidative stress and macrophage activation in the lungs, whereas it suppresses natural killer cells, after SARS-CoV-2 infection. Fibrin promotes neuroinflammation and neuronal loss after infection, as well as innate immune activation in the brain and lungs independently of active infection. A monoclonal antibody targeting the inflammatory fibrin domain provides protection from microglial activation and neuronal injury, as well as from thromboinflammation in the lung after infection. Thus, fibrin drives inflammation and neuropathology in SARS-CoV-2 infection, and fibrin-targeting immunotherapy may represent a therapeutic intervention for patients with acute COVID-19 and long COVID.

 

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

My question is that with daylight shrinking where I am plus our weather is we will go long periods of time without seeing the sun.  Is it worth getting an infrared light to use in winter and when you have a week of cloudy weather?

IMO the biggest issue with at home IR devices is that it's so hard to tell what wavelengths you're actually getting and how far they are penetrating — most at home devices seem to combine both red light and near-infrared light and often don't distinguish between them, so you may look at the total number of "lights" and think you're getting lots of infrared when you're mostly just getting red light plus a small amount of very-near-IR. Most red light/IR devices are designed to promote collagen production and improve skin appearance, which is why they use wavelengths that only penetrate a few millimeters into the skin.

Even Dr. Seheult often refers to "infrared" without distinguishing between near-IR and far-IR even though they can have different effects and very different levels of penetration. For example, he often mentions that "infrared" can penetrate deep into the body, through muscle and bone, but that only applies to far-IR, while the Brazilian study he cites used 940nm lights, which would only be penetrating a few millimeters deep, not remotely enough to go through muscle and bone — and most at home devices provide far fewer lights, often with wavelengths only in the 700s.

Obviously sunshine is best, since you are getting all IR wavelengths, but I live in the Pacific NW so I'm also very interested in at-home devices, but it's been frustrating not only trying to parse out what wavelengths are best for which effects but also trying to figure out which wavelengths, and how much actual exposure, various devices provide. I've been looking at infrared sauna blankets, which are supposedly far-IR, but none of the manufacturers seem to publish the actual specs, instead relying on vague claims about "detoxing" and general "wellness" benefits. Super frustrating!

Edited August 30 by Corraleno

[mommyoffive]

17 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

IMO the biggest issue with at home IR devices is that it's so hard to tell what wavelengths you're actually getting and how far they are penetrating — most at home devices seem to combine both red light and near-infrared light and often don't distinguish between them, so you may look at the total number of "lights" and think you're getting lots of infrared when you're mostly just getting red light plus a small amount of very-near-IR. Most red light/IR devices are designed to promote collagen production and improve skin appearance, which is why they use wavelengths that only penetrate a few millimeters into the skin.

Even Dr. Seheult often refers to "infrared" without distinguishing between near-IR and far-IR even though they can have different effects and very different levels of penetration. For example, he often mentions that "infrared" can penetrate deep into the body, through muscle and bone, but that only applies to far-IR, while the Brazilian study he cites used 940nm lights, which would only be penetrating a few millimeters deep, not remotely enough to go through muscle and bone — and most at home devices provide far fewer lights, with wavelengths only in the 700s.

Obviously sunshine is best, since you are getting all IR wavelengths, but I live in the Pacific NW so I'm also very interested in at-home devices, but it's been frustrating not only trying to parse out what wavelengths are best for which effects but also trying to figure out which wavelengths, and how much actual exposure, various devices provide. I've been looking at infrared sauna blankets, which are supposedly far-IR, but none of the manufacturers seem to publish the actual specs, instead relying on vague claims about "detoxing" and general "wellness" benefits. Super frustrating!

Thanks for that explanation.  This is something I don't know anything about.  If anyone knows about one that is good please post.  

Is getting non led lights for your home a good enough solution? 

Edited August 30 by mommyoffive

[KSera]

NOVAVAX APPROVED!!

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

NOVAVAX APPROVED!!

Yay.  But now I am conflicted!  

[KSera]

10 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Yay.  But now I am conflicted!  

Yeah. I think for some people (such as a large portion of those with long Covid), the decision is a no-brainer. But for others it’s hard to weigh more recent strain versus potentially more durable protection. Have you had any Novavax yet? if not, for my self personally I would lean that way as there seems to be a benefit to mixing and matching different types to broaden your immunity. If your last one was novavax, as mine was, I think it becomes a little more murky. We just simply don’t know what the differences might be and won’t until we have data in hindsight.

Edited August 30 by KSera

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I'm also very interested in at-home devices, but it's been frustrating not only trying to parse out what wavelengths are best for which effects but also trying to figure out which wavelengths, and how much actual exposure, various devices provide. I've been looking at infrared sauna blankets, which are supposedly far-IR, but none of the manufacturers seem to publish the actual specs, instead relying on vague claims about "detoxing" and general "wellness" benefits. Super frustrating!

If you make any headway with figuring out what’s good, I’d love to hear what you find. I know someone here uses one regularly, is it @BeachGal? 
 

[Mom_to3]

30 minutes ago, KSera said:

Yeah. I think for some people (such as a large portion of those with long Covid), the decision is a no-brainer. But for others it’s hard to weigh more recent strain versus potentially more durable protection. Have you had any Novavax yet? if not, for my self personally I would lean that way as there seems to be a benefit to mixing and matching different types to broaden your immunity. If your last one was novavax, as mine was, I think it becomes a little more murky. We just simply don’t know what the differences might be and won’t until we have data in hindsight.

We had Novavax last year and much preferred the shot, but uni starts next week, and Pfizer is available now...Is waiting too risky with students in classrooms? How about Pfizer now and then Novavax later in the winter (hopefully they will let us know that we can pay for the shot)?

[mommyoffive]

36 minutes ago, KSera said:

Yeah. I think for some people (such as a large portion of those with long Covid), the decision is a no-brainer. But for others it’s hard to weigh more recent strain versus potentially more durable protection. Have you had any Novavax yet? if not, for my self personally I would lean that way as there seems to be a benefit to mixing and matching different types to broaden your immunity. If your last one was novavax, as mine was, I think it becomes a little more murky. We just simply don’t know what the differences might be and won’t until we have data in hindsight.

We have never had Novavax.   When it came on the scene and it was time for us to get our vaccine last year I could only find it at Costco and that is at least 1.5 hours away from us.

[mommyoffive]

5 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

We had Novavax last year and much preferred the shot, but uni starts next week, and Pfizer is available now...Is waiting too risky with students in classrooms? How about Pfizer now and then Novavax later in the winter (hopefully they will let us know that we can pay for the shot)?

Are you in the US?  is that something you have done before?   I would really like to get 2 shots before the 2 waves a year.

[KSera]

10 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

We had Novavax last year and much preferred the shot, but uni starts next week, and Pfizer is available now...Is waiting too risky with students in classrooms? How about Pfizer now and then Novavax later in the winter (hopefully they will let us know that we can pay for the shot)?

Depends if your student is masking. If not, I’d get whatever is available first. Since you’ve had a novavax, maybe the updated Pfizer/moderna is a worthwhile tradeoff if no one has had a bad reaction? Male or female plays into decision making for young people for me as well. Different risks of different things. 

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

Depends if your student is masking. If not, I’d get whatever is available first. Since you’ve had a novavax, maybe the updated Pfizer/moderna is a worthwhile tradeoff if no one has had a bad reaction? Male or female plays into decision making for young people for me as well. Different risks of different things. 

Is this only about Moderna for young guys?

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Is this only about Moderna for young guys?

Yeah, my preference for young guys is novavax>pfizer>moderna. I generally prefer Moderna over Pfizer for the higher dose, but that’s also the reason I lean Pfizer for young guys. I would prefer them to get a mix though, so if they’ve already had some of each and had no issues, I’d go with Moderna if I couldn’t get a novavax for them. All other things being equal, I also have a higher long covid concern for females than males, since just being female automatically puts one at high risk of long covid, so that ups my caution in how I would feel about vaccine now vs starting class while waiting for Novavax. But only if masking. It gets complicated!

[Mom_to3]

Yes, it's for the whole family. Faculty exposure in classrooms...not kids. We were thinking Pfizer now  (most conveniently located pharmacy, and fewer reactions than Moderna for those that have problems, we do have two teen boys), then maybe Novavax in 4-8 months depending on exposures. We could do Moderna now also, but it would be a bit more of a dirve.

[mommyoffive]

30 minutes ago, KSera said:

Yeah, my preference for young guys is novavax>pfizer>moderna. I generally prefer Moderna over Pfizer for the higher dose, but that’s also the reason I lean Pfizer for young guys. I would prefer them to get a mix though, so if they’ve already had some of each and had no issues, I’d go with Moderna if I couldn’t get a novavax for them. All other things being equal, I also have a higher long covid concern for females than males, since just being female automatically puts one at high risk of long covid, so that ups my caution in how I would feel about vaccine now vs starting class while waiting for Novavax. But only if masking. It gets complicated!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.  It is such a confusing thing to think of what to do for everyone in a family.  Lots of thoughts.

I was even thinking that yes we are in a big wave, but the winter for where we are will probably be bigger.  But like you said what is the point of not having protection now vs then?  My kids all go back to things starting next week.  Although they have been in things all summer.  So the risk is high all the time I guess.  Not at just any point during the year.  

Here is another thing that floated in my head.  If you get the shot now and yes it wanes,  than you still have some over winter.  But maybe the waning is way less of an issue with Novavax? 

[mommyoffive]

Negative: Novavax produced lower levels of a specific antibody called IgG. This may contribute to more infections after Novavax than mRNA vaccines.

Positive: Novavax had a more durable response over time (waned less quickly).

 

That has me conflicted about Novavax.  

[TCB]

Does anyone know where Novavax will be available and when they will have it in stock? I wanted to get it last year but couldn’t find any nearby. I’m going to drive somewhere and get it this year if necessary.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

If you make any headway with figuring out what’s good, I’d love to hear what you find.

I've gone pretty far down the rabbit hole on this today, and I do have a recommendation (or at least a product I will be ordering myself to try out), along with some caveats:

1. A lot of the at-home infrared products make claims like this one from Amazon: "850 nm Near Infrared Light has a particularly strong ability to penetrate deeper into the muscle, tissues, organs, and joints...."  But if you look at the actual data on penetration of near-IR, that is not what the research shows. For example, most studies suggest that near-IR up to 900nm only penetrates 2-3mm, and the "deepest" measurement I can find was a cadaver study that measured penetration up to 40mm — still less than 1/4" — so claims that these at-home devices are penetrating deep into muscles and organs do not seem to be evidence based. Also, the tests generally measure penetration when the lights are in contact with the skin, with efficacy falling off pretty dramatically as the lights are held further away, so devices that are supposed to be used 6-12" from the skin may have lower effects than advertised — there's a reason the Brazilian study used LEDs in direct contact with the skin.

2. The next question, though, is whether the level of penetration actually makes a clinical difference, and that's a lot murkier. For example, here is a link to a chart briefly summarizing the results of 7 trials and 2 case studies using either red light alone or a combination of red light and near-IR to treat covid patients: https://www.mdpi.com/2304-6732/9/10/686. Those studies used fewer diodes, generally for a shorter treatment time and at a lower wavelength, than the Brazilian study (although some used higher powered lights that were pulsed), yet all had positive results, suggesting that the depth of penetration of the IR wavelength may not be a crucial factor in efficacy. So the fact that there may be little to no evidence for the hyped up claims of consumer devices may be fairly irrelevant.

3. The device that I've found that seems the closest to what was used in the Brazilian study and is still relatively affordable is the Hooga Rechargeable Red Light Therapy Belt ($99).  This is how it compares to the vest used in the Brazilian study:
      Hooga wrap = 240 IR LEDs @850nm (+120 red light),  45cm x 19cm (855 cm2 total area)
      Brazil wrap =  300 IR LEDs @940nm,  58cm x 36cm (2088 cm2 total area)
The reason the Hooga has nearly as many IR lights as the Brazilian vest, but in a much smaller area, is that each of their 120 "lights" includes 3 LED chips (2 IR and 1 RL), whereas the Brazilian study used 300 separate, individual IR lights.  

Since the Hooga specs are for combined IR/RL, I really don't know how to compare the "power" of their wrap to the Brazilian one. For example, Hooga says each of their 120 triple-chip LEDs is 1W, while the LEDs used in the Brazil study were listed as having an "optical power" of 0.02W, but I have no idea if they are referring to the same thing, or how much of the power in the Hooga LED is going to the red light, etc. Similarly, Hooga's spec of 110 mW/cm2 maximum irradiance includes the red lights, plus obviously the light is concentrated in a much smaller area compared to the Brazilian version, which lists an average (not maximum) irradiance of 2.9 mW/cm2.

But given the overall positive results from a number of different studies using very different types and levels of red and near-IR light, I'm not sure that the differences between the Hooga wrap and the homemade version that the Brazilian researchers used are that significant. And it seems like even though it is smaller the Hooga could just be used for 30 minutes vs 15, or used in two different places for 15 mins each, or used twice a day, or whatever. IMO the fact that it's used in direct contact with the body, vs a panel you sit in front of, is a plus.