Help with ideas for math

[Momx42012]

Hi, I believe this is my first time posting here, but I’ve been reading the great information and opinions for over a year. 
 

I would love some opinions on what could be a good fit for my DS5 for math. We are almost halfway in Subtraction Facts that Stick and he has completed Addition Facts that Stick. I can’t say enough good things about these books in regards to how well they have worked out for us. However, I’m looking ahead (just a little - as I’d be open to starting a curriculum soon) to what math curriculum we should go about getting for us to step into next. 
 

My older DS7 just completed Math Mammoth 1 and we’ll be sticking with that. He has no issues with it and I like it. He picks up on things pretty quickly and has no issues sitting still and getting workbook pages finished and grasping the concept. Now, with my DS5 he is very different than his brother. He fidgets a TON. I mean, to be expected somewhat for a 5 year old, but definitely still more so than I was used to with my older son. Also in general, concepts take a while longer for him to understand. He has a more difficult time staying focused in comparison to my DS7. 
 

I guess I’m looking for opinions from someone who has had very different children and if the same math program has worked for both of them. In my head I feel like MM might not be a great fit because visualizing the ten frame and using an abacus has definitely helped my DS5 grasp and understand addition and subtraction, where my older son who isn’t much in manipulative, thrives with MM. Does something like Right Start or Math U See seem like it would be a better fit for his learning style? Someone in my local sale group was selling Right Start A and B for a $100 and I heard that is a good deal. I was tempted to get it and try it out with him - if it’s even still available. 
 

I’d be interested to hear also, if someone has had their children work through Addition and Subtraction Facts that stick, what math curriculum did you use after or alongside it? 
 

TIA

[seemesew]

If you like the math facts that stick books why don't you try Kate Snows Math curriculum? I think its called math with confidence, or something like that. If you are happy with her other books I'd try sticking with the same author!

ETA: Ahh here are the books I'm talking about!

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by seemesew

[Momof4sweetkids]

We are using math with confidence kindergarten and its very hands on, with quick worksheets!

[Clemsondana]

This isn't directly about the math question - both of my kids, who are very different, had good experiences with Singapore Math.  Singapore focused a lot on 'making 10' in the early years, which really helped one of my kids.  But, on the fidget front, one of my kids did most of their school work at a kitchen cart that we used as their desk so they could work standing up.  They mostly stood for their writing subjects through maybe 4th grade, mostly sitting down only if they were reading.  That seemed to help keep them focused and let them be wiggly without it being an problem.  

[HomeAgain]

We attempted MUS at the beginning with youngest ds, because it worked for the oldest.  No go.  It was days of tears.  So we moved on, first to MEP and then Right Start.  I know the first levels of RS get rave reviews, but we started further in and were not impressed.  The lessons were long, muddled, and not presented as well as other programs.  I ended up teaching enough of the material separately that after E (F?) we decided to drop it.  Here's where we were:

-fidgity kid
-poor handwriting
-bright, but very rules-oriented.

And I honestly could work with that in ANY program just by dropping the worksheets and doing most of it orally/hands on, breaking lessons into parts, and teaching the way I knew best: visually, simply, and not trying to cut small static things like a bead into thirds.  I can do that with anything, but stomaching that with a $200 program wasn't the best idea.  It was a lot better for me to build up my toolbox with things like Education Unboxed, Math For Love, etc., things I could find for free to help me learn how to present alternate ways, and then use something cheaper that I could manipulate to fit my kid until I knew what exactly we were looking for.  DS ended up spending the next few years running through an older program from the 1960s.  It used cuisenaire rods for everything.  It fit, it worked for him, and now he's firmly in the middle of MUS algebra - which is a good-ish fit for him at this point.  He hates Mr. Demme, so lessons are still presented from the teacher's book here, and we attach extra paper because the spaces on the worksheets aren't always the best for his handwriting, but it's hitting that sweet spot for us: more independent, not too overwhelming pages.

[Momx42012]

16 hours ago, seemesew said:

If you like the math facts that stick books why don't you try Kate Snows Math curriculum? I think its called math with confidence, or something like that. If you are happy with her other books I'd try sticking with the same author!

ETA: Ahh here are the books I'm talking about!

 

I was debating this but I hadn’t heard too much about it yet. I think I will order it though since it’s much more affordable than some of the other programs. Maybe it will be a great fit for him! Have you personally heard anything, good or bad, about it? 

[Momx42012]

5 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

We attempted MUS at the beginning with youngest ds, because it worked for the oldest.  No go.  It was days of tears.  So we moved on, first to MEP and then Right Start.  I know the first levels of RS get rave reviews, but we started further in and were not impressed.  The lessons were long, muddled, and not presented as well as other programs.  I ended up teaching enough of the material separately that after E (F?) we decided to drop it.  Here's where we were:

-fidgity kid
-poor handwriting
-bright, but very rules-oriented.

And I honestly could work with that in ANY program just by dropping the worksheets and doing most of it orally/hands on, breaking lessons into parts, and teaching the way I knew best: visually, simply, and not trying to cut small static things like a bead into thirds.  I can do that with anything, but stomaching that with a $200 program wasn't the best idea.  It was a lot better for me to build up my toolbox with things like Education Unboxed, Math For Love, etc., things I could find for free to help me learn how to present alternate ways, and then use something cheaper that I could manipulate to fit my kid until I knew what exactly we were looking for.  DS ended up spending the next few years running through an older program from the 1960s.  It used cuisenaire rods for everything.  It fit, it worked for him, and now he's firmly in the middle of MUS algebra - which is a good-ish fit for him at this point.  He hates Mr. Demme, so lessons are still presented from the teacher's book here, and we attach extra paper because the spaces on the worksheets aren't always the best for his handwriting, but it's hitting that sweet spot for us: more independent, not too overwhelming pages.

Thank you for the reply! I too am hesitant to pay such a hefty price (to me) on something that he might not take to and not enjoy. I think I might just go ahead and try Math with Confidence and just keep working with him on concepts myself. I could copy the problems onto paper from his brothers completed MM and see if he does okay with those too if need be. 
 

I’m glad you found something that worked for your son. 

[Momx42012]

12 hours ago, Momof3sweetgirls said:

We are using math with confidence kindergarten and its very hands on, with quick worksheets!

How does your child like it? Do you like it so far? Thanks so much for the reply! I’m glad that it’s hands on as I think that my DS needs that to an extent. 

[Zoo Keeper]

My on-the-move boy did very well with Miquon.  He loved using the cuisenaire rods to see the math and figure it out for himself.  I use the c-rods to teach math no matter what curric I am using (so, you don't have to use the Miquon books to benefit from using the c-rods.)

Education Unboxed has nicely done videos that show how to use the rods.  http://www.educationunboxed.com/

Edited December 13, 2021 by Zoo Keeper

[seemesew]

5 hours ago, Momx42012 said:

I was debating this but I hadn’t heard too much about it yet. I think I will order it though since it’s much more affordable than some of the other programs. Maybe it will be a great fit for him! Have you personally heard anything, good or bad, about it? 

I haven't used it myself but I've heard nothing but good about it! Everyone I talk to who has used it loves it. My youngest is 4 so I may try it for her when she starts K because it sounds really great.

[barnwife]

If it helps you, OP, I am using a mix of things with our current almost 5 yo, one of which is the K book of Math with Confidence. There are things I like about it, including it being super easy to follow/implement and lessons that are a good length for this age. I also like the fact that she ahs a list of books that incorporate math concepts. I will admit I didn't buy the workbook. I wasn't impressed by the looks of it. It seemed like more writing than my kid is ready for currently. 

So I just use random cheap math workbooks I've picked up, or make my own if I feel the need for one. Most written work for this child at this point is filling out a "number of the day" type sheet I made, which doesn't necessarily correspond to the MWC lesson.

I will be getting Miquon's first 2 books for him to him alongside MWC. I've used Miquon with our older 3 and love it. This would be my other suggestion for you. I also randomly throw in some stuff from MEP math. This might also be a possibility for you.

I hope you find something that works!

[Janeway]

My 6 yr old is loving TGTB. BUT, I did not buy it. I print off some pages of it, do some orally, or just do our own thing. I do not want to be tied to a curriculum at this age. My son loves to play with things like Math-U-See blocks, toy blocks, we use measuring cups, shape blocks, etc. Oh, and we have the Mathtacular videos which all of my children have always loved. Honestly, for him, I mostly just use TGTB as a guide and only print off pages of high interest, such as coloring pages. Turns out, he loves coloring pages and I did not know that before. And this son is quite good at math. I am unsure how a squirmy child would do. I found my child with ADHD did well with Singapore Math as it did not require as long of lessons. BUT, on that note, I think in the end, I am finding that for K-1, not using a formal program has been the best way to go. 

[Momof4sweetkids]

On 12/13/2021 at 9:29 AM, Momx42012 said:

How does your child like it? Do you like it so far? Thanks so much for the reply! I’m glad that it’s hands on as I think that my DS needs that to an extent. 

I am really liking it. My DD is 4 yo and she's been going through it just fine. I like that its short lessons, hands on, and very open and go. The worksheet is really short too so she can do it even with limited writing skills. I will say she's my oldest so I haven't tried anything else. I've heard it's "gentle" so idk if that means that she will be moving much slower if we stayed with it through the upper grades. Kate Snow announced it will go up to sixth grade I think. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Momof3sweetgirls

[Eisakka]

I started homeschooling my 5-yr-old son in August. I didn't know which math level to start him at, so we began at the MWC preschool level. He finished that in less than 2 weeks. We just finished the kindergarten level last week, and we're going to finish the basic addition/subtraction facts in the first-grade book soon before switching him soon to MEP. The second-grade MWC book isn't out yet, so the switch was necessary. We also supplement with the first-grade level of Beast Academy.

I agonized over my decision for weeks. While I really liked MWC, in the end it was too gentle for my son and not as in-depth as the other programs. Believe me, I've reviewed them all! I was unable to find a program the matched my needs/wants 100% but I think MEP, with minor modifications, is close.

I didn't like Singapore -- I couldn't get my head around their strange mental math model. I didn't like how RightStart spirals (and I didn't want to spend all the time de-spiraling it). Math Mammoth expects students to teach themselves based on worksheets (which wouldn't work for my son, who can't yet read or write). Rod and Staff was painfully slow and dull. 

I will miss the games of MWC but I hope to add them in later using Kitchen Table Math and other math game books. But, overall MEP incorporates all other elements I was looking for -- the systematic introduction and review of math facts, oral drills (which I will turn into jumping games), working with rods and number lines, etc. I will turn the worksheets into kinesthetic materials and manipulatives to work with. 

Please let me know if you have any questions about MWC. I'm going to be starting my daughter in the preschool level soon.

I hope this helps!

 

 

 

[knitgrl]

22 hours ago, Eisakka said:

I started homeschooling my 5-yr-old son in August. I didn't know which math level to start him at, so we began at the MWC preschool level. He finished that in less than 2 weeks. We just finished the kindergarten level last week, and we're going to finish the basic addition/subtraction facts in the first-grade book soon before switching him soon to MEP. The second-grade MWC book isn't out yet, so the switch was necessary. We also supplement with the first-grade level of Beast Academy.

I agonized over my decision for weeks. While I really liked MWC, in the end it was too gentle for my son and not as in-depth as the other programs. Believe me, I've reviewed them all! I was unable to find a program the matched my needs/wants 100% but I think MEP, with minor modifications, is close.

I didn't like Singapore -- I couldn't get my head around their strange mental math model. I didn't like how RightStart spirals (and I didn't want to spend all the time de-spiraling it). Math Mammoth expects students to teach themselves based on worksheets (which wouldn't work for my son, who can't yet read or write). Rod and Staff was painfully slow and dull. 

I will miss the games of MWC but I hope to add them in later using Kitchen Table Math and other math game books. But, overall MEP incorporates all other elements I was looking for -- the systematic introduction and review of math facts, oral drills (which I will turn into jumping games), working with rods and number lines, etc. I will turn the worksheets into kinesthetic materials and manipulatives to work with. 

Please let me know if you have any questions about MWC. I'm going to be starting my daughter in the preschool level soon.

I hope this helps!

 

 

 

You mentioned MEP, so I need to gush. I started dd12 kind of late on MEP, about half way through Year2. We are still using it. Dd6 has used it since K, with Reception. She didn't get everything last year in Year1; she routinely got around 75% of the "tests" correct, but we pressed on anyway. I was starting to wonder if it was a good fit. But we have stuck with it, and this year, she is doing really well, and is able to do mental calculations with relative ease. This is a great program, with only printing costs, not a $200 bill. I am so happy to have stumbled across it here on the forums.

[goldenecho]

I asked this same exact question (nearly) several years back.   I LOVED the Math that Stick series, but of course we needed something more all encompassing.

What I love about the Math that Stick series was that the lessons were easy, and visual, and genuinely helped my child understand better, and that the games kept him intersted.

LOTS of people suggested RightStart Math when I asked here (and other places).  We tried it, but didn't really get to use it much before we decided to send our kiddo back to school (for various non-related reasons).

So, take this comparison with that in mind.

It was hands on.   My son was excited about the abacus but I feel like I would have done better continuing to use a program that worked around a ten frame.  I loved that the lessons were scripted (a real script, not having to copy a movie or extract a script from the teachers guide like with Math U See, what we had tried before Math Facts).   They were not hard to implement in one sense, but there was not just ONE thing you were working on like in Math Facts.  You were working on several concepts at once.  Part of the difficulty may have just been jumping into the middle of the program, since where we were was half way through a book level.  I feel like if I had spent more time with it it may have gotten easier. 

The math games did seem fun.  

[lulalu]

My son was (and still is) on the move all the time. He hated writing at 5. We did Miquon and we loved it. It is very hands on and visual and much less expensive than Right Start. MUS is a good one too, but the scope and sequence is much more limiting than Miquon. As far as I have seen each level of MUS only focuses on a limited amount of skills. Whereas Miquon you have a bunch of variety in each book and you are meant to skip around as the child likes and chooses. 

[Dianthus]

RS A is K level. We did it for K and I didn't really like it on it own (hated their worksheets) but still use some of the RS methods along the way. It may get much better in later levels, but I only used the first level.

For my kids, we have used Abeka worksheets for grades 1-6. Dd7th switched to saxon this year. I like spiral for math, and I think they like their day's work to be straightforward. They know exactly what needs to be done each day. We've supplemented with Beast Academy, and I wonder if your son would like that. It has comics with monsters, but definitely a different way of thinking. They do teach some things really well, and I really like how they taught exponents. Some things may need more help because of the puzzle solving nature.

Also, I wonder if you could just supplement with games. RS has a game book, but we have really liked Box Cars and One Eye Jacks. The have a game book, but they also have tiny and huge cards and SO many great dice. I like their stuff much better than RS.

[Momx42012]

On 12/29/2021 at 10:16 AM, Spirea said:

RS A is K level. We did it for K and I didn't really like it on it own (hated their worksheets) but still use some of the RS methods along the way. It may get much better in later levels, but I only used the first level.

For my kids, we have used Abeka worksheets for grades 1-6. Dd7th switched to saxon this year. I like spiral for math, and I think they like their day's work to be straightforward. They know exactly what needs to be done each day. We've supplemented with Beast Academy, and I wonder if your son would like that. It has comics with monsters, but definitely a different way of thinking. They do teach some things really well, and I really like how they taught exponents. Some things may need more help because of the puzzle solving nature.

Also, I wonder if you could just supplement with games. RS has a game book, but we have really liked Box Cars and One Eye Jacks. The have a game book, but they also have tiny and huge cards and SO many great dice. I like their stuff much better than RS.

I do plan on getting BA die both my boys! Thanks for the reply!