How much do you notice if a male has long hair?

[Bootsie]

50 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

A hotel in that location would be marketed more for those attending conventions.  I can't imagine they have rodeo's and gun shows every weekend, to the exclusion of all else.  Do they have wedding/receptions?

Hotels generally don't have control over how guests groom - they do over how their employees are dressed and will have grooming standards.  (e.g. an employee who doesn't tend to personal hygiene - shower - frequently enough to prevent BO, isn't going to be employed for long.  guests on the other hand . . . as long as they pay the bill . . . )

 

In our area, that frequency of rodeo-type guests is fairly common; We have a large horse show arena; the house next door to me sold in the last six months at top $$$ to someone in the horse industry so that he has a place to stay when he is (frequently) in town.  So, having that type of crowd every weekend is very realistic in this location.  Would someone having a wedding reception at the hotel really mind that a male employee has hair longer than their shoulders?--I can't imagine that would even register with most young people choosing a wedding recpetion location.  In fact, most of the young people I know would be more likely to find it attractive, cool, and hip and find a conservative, short hair style square and unattractive.  And, the grooming standard issue in this case is different grooming standards for males and females.  

In the meantime, I am just returning home from an event at the university.  The man whose name is on the building (and who owns a VERY CONSERVATIVE investment firm)--walked into the event with his cowboy hat and his hair way below his collar in the back.  So, that is part of the local culutre. 

 

[rebcoola]

2 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

  A woman's professional look includes makeup (imo),  it doesn't have to be fully done up, but if your industry asks for professional dress on a woman,  I include that to be makeup and hair fixed (short or long hair)

No seriously just no a woman shouldn't have to wear makeup to be professional.  This is not the same as being neat and well groomed.  

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, rebcoola said:

No seriously just no a woman shouldn't have to wear makeup to be professional.  This is not the same as being neat and well groomed.  

Nor should women be required to wear 4" stiletto heels.   (or any height stiletto)

[GailV]

I was telling dh about this thread and he immediately said he assumed you could sue for harassment regarding comments about makeup; even if not, it's obviously wandering into a really dicey area for management. He works in manufacturing in the U.S., so YMMV.

Looking through my kids' friends' headshots and other photographs, I can see that makeup and perceived gender are not tightly bound together in some parts of society.  Sort of makes me think of when I was little and it was Big News for a woman to wear pants to church.

[BusyMom5]

Actually courts have upheld that makeup can be required as part of a dress code.  I think it depends on the exact job, but if you are the "face" of a business- the one customers come into contact with, they can require makeup and a certain style of dress.   You could argue that it isnt right to require it, but right now it is considered part of business professional dress code in many industries. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by BusyMom5

[Wheres Toto]

1 hour ago, BusyMom5 said:

Actually courts have upheld that makeup can be required as part of a dress code.  I think it depends on the exact job, but if you are the "face" of a business- the one customers come into contact with, they can require makeup and a certain style of dress.   You could argue that it isnt right to require it, but right now it is considered part of business professional dress code in many industries. 

Do  you have a link?  I'm curious how specific it gets.

For example:

Just for women or does it not differentiate?

Does it say what constitutes "made up"?  like is lipstick required?  how about a tinted lip balm?  foundation? eye shadow?

What about wild colors?  I used to work with someone who typically wore 80's style blue eye shadow.

[Bootsie]

I don't have any link to court cases, but my understanding is that dress code differentials (including hair length and makeup) have been upheld so long as they do not impose a differential burden on a group based on sex or other protected class.  I do not know how much a "differentail burden" has been defined.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds over time.  I can see why college students are confused about it.  We have had so many DEI initiatives--they sit in class and hear how everyone can choose their pronouns, that there is no such thing as male/female, that they cannot refer to "pregnant women", only "pregnant people"--and they are encouraged to be leaders in supporting these ideas.  But, they leave the classroom and go to the workplace and are told they have to wear makeup because they are female or wear their hair a certain way because they are male (and wonder if they change their pronouns if those rules will still apply).

From a customer service/expectations perspective, I do wonder how much these business risk losing customers if a male has long hair or a female doesn't wear makeup versus having potential customers hear of these policies, which may be legal, are counter to the culture and values of some in society, and i think especially offensive to some of the younger demographic.

[BusyMom5]

Fair warning,  I did not have time to vet sources, but here are a few articles regarding requiring makeup in face-front employment. 

https://www.employmentlawfirms.com/resources/can-my-employer-require-me-wear-makeup.htm

This one addresses hair length, too.

https://www.workplacefairness.org/dress-codes-grooming

I looked the dress thing up last week, over the Hooter butt-showing shorts - which I think should be illegal!  It's not!  Waitresses can either wear a thong that shows their entire rear-end,  or quit.   

https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/some-hooters-servers-tiktok-are-saying-new-shorts-are-too-n1281610

This is just one of many articles- and I watched some YT videos of servers putting them on over leggings.   

 

[Ditto]

On 10/23/2021 at 7:32 AM, Quill said:

I would say it sounds like the boss is old school in his thinking.  My attorney is like that too, though somewhere along the way he realized he best not make remarks to female collègues or subordinates. I do think he nags the law clerk excessively about appearance. 
 

My boss has “suggested” to me that I should wear dark lipstick; this was mostly in the context of when I was planning for my dd’s wedding. But I hate wearing lipstick daily, so I don’t. He also “suggested” I should get my nails done but I don’t like fingernails long enough to impede my typing/drawing/painting etc. So I just painted my own short fingernails for the wedding. 
 

My son has bi-level long hair he wears in a bun. When my son was a teen, dh constantly nagged him (and me) whenever his hair got shaggy. It was the most obnoxious thing. Somewhere along the line, dh either realized or was advised by someone that this was not a hill to die on. When ds started at college, his hair was in a bun, he got both ears and his nose pierced - all things dh would have harped on in the past. But he gave up fussing about it. Truthfully, the nose piercing took some getting used to for me but I like it now. Look at how handsome he is: 

This is a great picture!  They are both gorgeous.  The piercings and his long hair (even though it is pulled back here) really suit him well.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Ditto said:

This is a great picture!  They are both gorgeous.  The piercings and his long hair (even though it is pulled back here) really suit him well.

Thank you! His gf is a real sweetie; she brings out the best in him.