NonTraditional Highschool for Homeschool Students

[Gil]

We school Jan-Dec so The Boys will be starting "9th grade" in a couple of months. However, neither is particularly interested in a traditional highschool curriculum.

We're in Florida. The colleges that they're considering are in-state.

If we just continue to do our own thing, how much will that hurt them? We've been talking a lot about post highschool and for now they are pretty adamant about what they want to do and where they want to be in 1-year, 3-years and 5 years.

 

I'm interested to hear what you veterans think? What might I be over looking?

 

Cons and Pros of doing a Nontraditional High School in our homeschool

I'm not worried about them being college-ready per-se, so much as I am in helping them be able to choose between different paths in young adult hood.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Gil

[teachermom2834]

I think nontraditional is fine but I would find a way to turn that into a transcript that a college admissions worker could understand and check boxes for standard courses. 

Personally I would have English 9, English 10, English 11, English 12 on a transcript but I would feel very comfortable with defining those however I wanted. That sort of thing. 
 

So my answer would be that yes you should keep being non-traditional and doing your own thing but that you should also have it fit into something close to a standard high school package. I don’t think you need to limit yourself to what traditional school kids do. But you do need to give colleges something they can decipher and check off some boxes if college is a possibility. I don’t think it is either/or unless you are doing something way crazier than I imagine.

[Melissa B]

As far as getting in to college:

It probably won't hurt them at all if they test well on the ACT/SAT, especially if they are National Merit Scholars. 

If you want Bright Futures they will need to earn a minimal number of verified volunteer hours - 100.

If all four years of high school work will be done at home, a few key dual enrollment classes would be a good idea. UF in particular looks for them. With dual enrollment being free and easily accessible, nearly all students have at least a few and the admissions folks expect them, so not having any could put you at a disadvantage. If you aren't near a university or college you like, UF has online dual enrollment agreements with most counties. 

For all of the major universities you submit your own class and grade reports with your admission application, so regardless of what you teach, you may want to give the classes generic names. Honors English I, Honors English II, Honors Biology I w/Lab, etc. 

I have my third senior this year. We were just checking her application portals today and both UF and FSU flagged her SSAR. She sent an inquiry email and UF responded that it was because she is homeschooled and requires an additional code. They said this is something they do internally that she doesn't need to worry about and her flag should be removed shortly. I have no idea what that is about. I don't remember it happening to my other two; hopefully it isn't anything important. 🙂

 

[Farrar]

SAT/ACT is supreme in Florida admissions and will still be down the line. Everything else is secondary there. So all the talk about holistic admissions, etc. If you can make the coursework look even halfway normal on paper and they can get a strong test score, then that's what you need most for Florida schools.

May I make a suggestion though? Why not make this a gap semester? You usually start the school year with the calendar year, but that's going to be off in terms of applying to college anyway. And they're not interested in a traditional high school experience and it sounds like you're not totally sure how you want to approach things. Why not take a little extra time to figure it out. If not, they're going to finish their senior year in December and then... what? Apply during their final semester and take a gap semester? Apply the following year? Basically, why not take that little time now?

[Lori D.]

Adding on to @Farrar's gap semester  idea -- a gap semester doesn't mean not do anything. It means using the gap time as a bonus gift of time to spend in a very focused way that you wouldn't have been able to because of time spent on a regular academics routine. So a special gap semester focus might allow for... A big, multi-month project (science, history, engineering, etc.). Heavy-duty investment in the community via volunteering. Starting their own business. Developing a special hobby/talent/skill. Writing a novel. Developing a portfolio of art, design, cooking, photography, etc. Or...

One potential issue I see is related to @teachermom2834's comment, and that is, in addition to coming up with a set of credits that college admission officers will understand, you also need to figure out how you'll count credits that are roughly equivalent to more traditional credits. You don't want to SHORT your DSs from legitimately earned credits, and depriving them of the robust transcript that they really earned and which will make them stand out.

That's fine to school year-round, but don't count 1 year-round school year = 1 credit each for each subject covered. Public & private high school students spend roughly 9 months to earn 1 credit. If you spend 12 months to earn 1 credit, assuming you're covering a similar volume of work for regular or honors or college-level work, your DSs will have earned 1.25 credits for each subject. Or, spend roughly 9 months of the 12-month year, earn the credit, move on to the next credit for the next 3 months, continue into the next 12-month year until the second credit is earned. Rinse. Repeat. At that rate, you would accrue 5 credits in 4 years for each subject.

A few very rough guides for calculating credits -- typical 1.0 credit for a high school subject
 = 120 - 180 hours of work 
= or completion of a typical high school text / program, or coverage of typical topics at typical depth

Non-traditional courses are absolutely fine -- and super! -- but you'll want to research and very roughly understand the volume of material + rigor of material to know what is reasonable to count as a credit for your DSs -- again, so you don't short them, and they potentially miss out on scholarships or admission to top tier colleges because you did not label courses as Honors or Advanced, or awarded minimal credits when they earned much more than that. The hard reality is that you DO need to help show how competitive their high school experience really is.
 

Generally, a college prep set of credits would include:
4 credits = English (typically, colleges expect that to roughly fall out as 1/2 Writing + 1/2 Literature, but there are lots of options)
4 credits = Math (colleges want Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 + a 4th math with Algebra 2 as the prerequisite)
4 credits = Science, at least 2 credits with labs  (colleges are pretty flexible; some want Biology and/or Chemistry)
4 credits = Social Sciences  (many colleges want 1 credit = US Hist. + 1 credit = World Hist. and/or Geog.; some also want 0.5 credit each Econ & Gov't)
2-4 credits = Foreign Language, same language, or 2 credits in each of 2 languages (Latin accepted by all except USAF Academy; ASL accepted by many)
1 credit = Fine Arts (can be making or performing, or can be Appreciation & History-based)
4-8+ credits = Electives (can be things like Computer, personal interest subjects, Vocational-Technical courses, additional Fine Arts credits, "Academic Electives" -- additional credits in first 5 subjects above that are beyond the required amount in that list)
24+ credits = total

HOW you accomplish those credits is totally flexible and can be done very non-traditionally.

Note: Many accelerated and highly competitive students have anywhere from 28-40 credits on the transcript, as DE (Dual Enrollment) is counted as 1 college semester = 1 year/credit of high school (NOTE: but there are exceptions -- research the policy of your state, and the future colleges of interest). Many students also have cumulative GPAs that are above 4.0, due to grade weighting (Honors usually = +0.5 grade point, and AP or DE = +1.0 grade point). So, while a regular "A" = 4.0, an Honors "A" = 4.5, and an "A" in AP or DE = 5.0.

Not trying to get into the weeds of homeschool high school administration here, but just trying to show with examples that if your students are doing extra rigor & volume of work compared to other students, you want that to be reflected on the transcript, or your DSs won't be fairly compared. 😉 


ETA
Totally not academic or administrative last thought here... BUT... Be prepared to be flexible. You may start out fine doing non-traditional credits and a non-traditional school year, but find that it stops working for you all partway through. Or, a DS may develop a strong interest and drive that means flexing and bending to a new way of doing things. Or you may accrue credits so quickly that your DSs graduate early. And most of all... you're right about to hit the hormonal / emotional / physical changes that have a tendency to "eat teen brains" and lead to very normal attitude changes as teens are figuring out who they are and how to identify themselves as individuals separate and apart from parents. Again, that means being flexible to adjust in the educational arena as other arenas need time and attention...

Edited October 11, 2021 by Lori D.

[Miguelsmom]

We made a deal with our son if he passed the pert test and dual enrolled we wouldn't bother with traditional subjects just the dual enrollment classes. For us that was the start of his 10th grade year. (he needed 7 core high school classes which he did in 8-9th grade through block scheduling) 3 math,  3 English, 1 SS. Also make sure they take 2 foreign languages As they will need that to graduate with An Associates of Art or a bachelors degree.

Once he passed the pert he took the required classes for his major and other classes just for fun. We had him set a 6 hour timer every day and just do productive stuff. Personal projects, drawing, DE classes or other non-media consuming thing. Then every semester I took his projects and gave him credit for them. He has a subject based transcript not by year. He was able to get his AS degree, a certificate, and fun classes. Currently he transferred All his Associates of science credits to his Bachelors program and was able to add a minor. 

We focused heavily on reading and math so He was able score high enough on the SAT to get bright futures scholarship. Which in Florida pays 75-100% of tuition if requirements are met. He's now a senior in his Bachelors degree. He will graduate at 19 with a certification, AS degree, BS degree and minor.

We were unphased by him picking his path so young because we felt it was like picking a track in high school (Ie. you like art, you pick 5 art electives or a trade) This way he had a skill at the end of his high school career. He could have always and was encouraged to look at other degrees he may have liked better but he had to finish the Associates of science first.

He's not a student that likes school and would not have gone for a Bachelors if he was starting from scratch at 18, or if we required him to get an AA degree in high school. He needed those hands on electives all throughout high school with minimal general education.  The required 36 general education requirements for a bachelors was spread through out the 4 years (5 in his case) and were tailored specifically to his major.

 

That's just how we did things. I think it's a great alternative to traditional subjects. His transcript looked similar to others but much more in depth in one area.  It created a hook for when he did go to university because he had already been working towards his chosen field. Also with bright futures if he choose to go after his masters degree part of the tuition would have been paid because he graduated within his 7th semester.

[Melissa B]

8 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Note: Many accelerated and highly competitive students have anywhere from 28-40 credits on the transcript, as DE (Dual Enrollment) is counted as 1 college semester = 1 year/credit of high school. Many students also have cumulative GPAs that are above 4.0, due to grade weighting (Honors usually = +0.5 grade point, and AP or DE = +1.0 grade point). So, while a regular "A" = 4.0, an Honors "A" = 4.5, and an "A" in AP or DE = 5.0.

 

As soon as I read this I realized why homeschoolers' SSAR submissions are flagged and reviewed. Florida has a document that must be followed regarding high school equivalency credits. It is much more generous than it was for my eldest ten years ago, but it still isn't 1 class=1 credit, which I think many homeschoolers in Florida still try and use. Most math, English and first two foreign language classes are 1 credit. Most social science, fine arts, electives and third foreign language classes are 0.5 credit. It must be easier for admissions to flag the student submitted transcript (SSAR) as soon as it comes in to make any necessary changes regarding credits.

https://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/7744/urlt/ACCAgenda-Feb2021-AppA.pdf

 

 

[Roadrunner]

I don’t have English 9 or 10 on DS’s transcript, so while I don’t think we are untraditional, we haven’t always followed the convention. 
I will say to know your end destination. If you need affordability of FL public universities, you might need to bend to their desires. Hopefully as Farrar says it might just be all about SATs for you. 
We are bending to some UC requirements because we have to. I wish testing was all the bending I had to do, but CA really complicated things for homeschoolers. 

But outside of those considerations, non traditional education is why we are all here, right? I don’t see a downside. 

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, Melissa B said:

As soon as I read this I realized why homeschoolers' SSAR submissions are flagged and reviewed. Florida has a document that must be followed regarding high school equivalency credits. It is much more generous than it was for my eldest ten years ago, but it still isn't 1 class=1 credit, which I think many homeschoolers in Florida still try and use. Most math, English and first two foreign language classes are 1 credit. Most social science, fine arts, electives and third foreign language classes are 0.5 credit. It must be easier for admissions to flag the student submitted transcript (SSAR) as soon as it comes in to make any necessary changes regarding credits.

https://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/7744/urlt/ACCAgenda-Feb2021-AppA.pdf

Thanks for that great info and link! :D. In case anyone else is wondering, that document specifically lists which courses equal how much credit (0.5 or 1.0 credit) for DE equivalency in Florida.

[EKS]

One phrase you can use in your course descriptions (assuming it's true!) is "This advanced course assumed prior knowledge of [insert typical high school subject matter], and covered/involved..."  This signals that your student is unusual/advanced and that this course is standing in for the more typical fare.  At least I hope that's what it does!  It worked for my younger son.

 

[teachermom2834]

40 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I don’t have English 9 or 10 on DS’s transcript, so while I don’t think we are untraditional, we haven’t always followed the convention. 
I will say to know your end destination. If you need affordability of FL public universities, you might need to bend to their desires. Hopefully as Farrar says it might just be all about SATs for you. 
We are bending to some UC requirements because we have to. I wish testing was all the bending I had to do, but CA really complicated things for homeschoolers. 

But outside of those considerations, non traditional education is why we are all here, right? I don’t see a downside. 

Oh definitely. I didn’t mean that English 9 is the only acceptable name of an English or Language Arts course. Just that you can do non-traditional while not closing doors unnecessarily. I think I was just trying to say that it isn’t an either/or proposition. You can be non-traditional and still make college possible for your kids. English 9 can mean all kinds of non-traditional things. 

My ds went to USF from out of state. That is my only experience with FL schools but they were very straight forward in what they were looking for regarding required courses/GPA/test scores. I think they would have accepted anything that checked the boxes if the test scores were there. USF just wanted a simple transcript they could take at face value. They weren’t wanting to dig into course descriptions. Obviously UF is very competitive so I’m not making any generalizations. 

[Gil]

So, I'm confident that they'll have the test scores, though they'll be prepping to be sure that we hit the score mark.

The current default, in so far as I have one, is that they'll do home-courses for subjects that they want to do and that I think are important for them,  and continue doing DE until they max it out at the CC.

@Miguelsmom Thank you for chiming in!

Buddy, my eldest, has no desire to be in school during his 20s. He much prefers to get as much education as possible under his belt by 18 or 19.5 at the latest and go about his life. He's got a lot of ideas about how he wants to spend his 20s and "school" is not on the list. He isn't the type to choose to start college at 18 either. He's willing to finish with College around that age, but not start it.

Pal, on the other hand, wants to get a PhD. He plans to accelerate through and get his Masters, take some time off and then start work on a PhD in either Mathematics or possibly a Computer Science. He wants to pause after his Masters to get married, Work FT, travel, have kids and start a business while working on his PhD.

The Boys want to be in/go into business together when they're in their mid20s.

@Farrar They're ready to start in January. Taking a gap semester doesn't appeal to them at all. As for graduating to college, our universities can be began in Spring or Summer, not just in the Fall.

 

@Lori D. Thanks for the pointers about the credits. We won't be doing English. We home school bilingually and so they'll have Communication and Composition, or something of the sort because they read, write and discuss across the curriculum in 2 languages.

They'll earn about 2 credits a year in Foreign Language, because they have an Intensive Conversation and Intensive Literacy course for Japanese each. I know that they aren't typically split this way, but it's not typical for people to actually converse and read/write the language that they study during highschool. One of them might continue with German, so if he does, he'll earn 3 language credits a year.

They plan to earn about 6 math credits, starting with Calculus.

Neither are particularly passionate about the natural sciences, so they plan to take Bio, Chem and Physics via DE and get the credit for it once and be done. Ditto for US Government and Economics courses via DE as well.

At home, The Boys do Computer Programming as a part of their school. They've completed a couple of texts often used for 2 (or 3) semesters of programming at many of our states colleges/universities and several coding projects (dozens have been scrapped as well). They're still learning computer programming and I'm planning to give them credit for their abilities.

They'll be learning more hardware skills as well-- Repairing Phones, laptops and tablets. I can't find schools (highschools or colleges) that offer hardware classes so I don't know what to call it just yet, but it's going on their transcript.

The other things that they learn and study at the house? Well some of it will be converted into a course and put on the transcript.

Communication and Composition is cross curricular, so I'll spin history and civics out of that so that it fits a transcript.
 

[kiwik]

It seems to me that the US system makes doing non traditional high school much easier.  Also being able to write a transcript.  Here it is all exams based and there is no automatic right of home schoolers to sit the exams.

[Gil]

4 hours ago, kiwik said:

It seems to me that the US system makes doing non traditional high school much easier.  Also being able to write a transcript.  Here it is all exams based and there is no automatic right of home schoolers to sit the exams.

Admissions to our state colleges seems fairly test-based.

I definitely didn't have a wonderful transcript or anything like that. But I got into college based on tests. After the first semester it really didn't matter how I'd gotten in. Once in college, whether or not I stayed in was again based on tests in each class--and of course ethical behavior.

MANY US Universities want you to "have a solid transcript" (aka dictate your highschool experience) but that's an awful lot of time and energy to devote and sacrifice just for it to not wind up mattering after 1 semester. [Yes, I know that the foundation you bring from highschool helps you to keep up in college level courses, in theory, but I found that to be true in only a couple of classes. You can ace Gen Ed courses (ie the first 2 years of college) with great study and test taking skills alone.

So long as we're earnestly preparing for their future goals, I'm not sure how/why it matters which "expected" courses we don't do. US College admission requirements are very limiting too.

The Boys want to continue to study languages, mathematics, computers and they're going to continue reading and writing broadly.
They want to continue to have sufficient time to build their business, volunteer and play sports.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Gil said:

Admissions to our state colleges seems fairly test-based.

I definitely didn't have a wonderful transcript or anything like that. But I got into college based on tests. After the first semester it really didn't matter how I'd gotten in. Once in college, whether or not I stayed in was again based on tests in each class--and of course ethical behavior.

MANY US Universities want you to "have a solid transcript" (aka dictate your highschool experience) but that's an awful lot of time and energy to devote and sacrifice just for it to not wind up mattering after 1 semester. [Yes, I know that the foundation you bring from highschool helps you to keep up in college level courses, in theory, but I found that to be true in only a couple of classes. You can ace Gen Ed courses (ie the first 2 years of college) with great study and test taking skills alone.

So long as we're earnestly preparing for their future goals, I'm not sure how/why it matters which "expected" courses we don't do. US College admission requirements are very limiting too.

The Boys want to continue to study languages, mathematics, computers and they're going to continue reading and writing broadly.
They want to continue to have sufficient time to build their business, volunteer and play sports.

In the vast majority of countries, the high school curriculum is extremely set. You prepare for specific exams and the curriculum is set - the specific textbooks and materials - every vocabulary word, every topic, even the specific literature you read. Here, you need to cover a broad subject, but you don't have to take a particular track of study or cover specific material except in a few narrow cases. But even then, you can have a huge amount of customization. For example, yes, you have to do US history for most American colleges. But you can cover any aspect. You can do it quickly with a program and call it done. You can do it in depth for an AP test or in more depth with a specific aspect. You can do it from a political bias perspective. Or try to be middle of the road. You can incorporate a ton of readings or just rip through a textbook. It's incredibly flexible. The same with other "dictates."

Students can definitely "master" the material of a specific course in a semester. But colleges do want to see that you challenge yourself and went further. If every single subject is just the student tearing through the basic material with no depth or exploration and as few assignments as possible, then colleges don't love that. 

Of course, this gets to some deeper questions about what makes a good education. Is it checking off the boxes as quickly as possible or does it necessitate taking time to really go in depth. From your thread on writing, I have the sense that you're not in favor of that, but to me, a lot of the material in the humanities just takes time to engage with or your engagement has been surface level. In math and sciences, that's true in a really different way - but you can definitely master material and fly through it - but then you show that by continuing to master higher and higher order skills and information until you reach a level that forces you to take longer to master it. In the humanities... I mean, you're never done reading a philosopher or a work of literature from an academic perspective. And reading more bulk is good, but so is revisiting and going into more depth. Same with history and psychology and government and so forth - there are always more theories to explore, more perspectives to consider. Even people with Phd's in these subjects don't know everything about them.

ETA: I think there are pluses and minuses to the US college system. It's great for its diversity. Some schools require a test and not much else. Others require interesting writing. Others require a lot of coursework. Others require it all. There are paths to college (assuming you can pay) for nearly every type of student with nearly every learning style and focus. But it's not straightforward. It's a hot mess. And it's hard to know exactly what to focus on in order to be a "top achiever" in the US. You can go really far and be really smart and score the best and still not have a way to attend the specific highly selective college you want because other factors are considered. And a lot of students see that as a big issue.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Farrar

[chiguirre]

On 10/12/2021 at 6:07 AM, Gil said:

@Lori D. Thanks for the pointers about the credits. We won't be doing English. We home school bilingually and so they'll have Communication and Composition, or something of the sort because they read, write and discuss across the curriculum in 2 languages.

They'll earn about 2 credits a year in Foreign Language, because they have an Intensive Conversation and Intensive Literacy course for Japanese each. I know that they aren't typically split this way, but it's not typical for people to actually converse and read/write the language that they study during highschool. One of them might continue with German, so if he does, he'll earn 3 language credits a year.

They plan to earn about 6 math credits, starting with Calculus.

Neither are particularly passionate about the natural sciences, so they plan to take Bio, Chem and Physics via DE and get the credit for it once and be done. Ditto for US Government and Economics courses via DE as well.
 

My dd finished her AA during high school and enlisted in the Navy as an IT. She's aiming to finish her BS in Comp Sci at UF using their online program. Their website is extremely detailed about what classes are required and how to fulfill those requirements coming from CC or using test scores on the AP, CLEP or military exams. I'd spend some time with Buddy reading through the requirements to see how to most efficiently use his time in DE to check as many boxes as possible for those requirements. FSU, FIU and UCF also have online CS programs, but dd felt that the one that would best prepare someone for grad school was UF. Admission to UF's online program as a transfer with CC credits was an easy to follow formula of required classes and GPA. 

[Gil]

14 hours ago, Farrar said:

In the vast majority of countries, the high school curriculum is extremely set. You prepare for specific exams and the curriculum is set - the specific textbooks and materials - every vocabulary word, every topic, even the specific literature you read.

Thanks. This is a good point.

Quote

Here, you need to cover a broad subject, but you don't have to take a particular track of study or cover specific material except in a few narrow cases. But even then, you can have a huge amount of customization. For example, yes, you have to do US history for most American colleges. But you can cover any aspect. You can do it quickly with a program and call it done. You can do it in depth for an AP test or in more depth with a specific aspect. You can do it from a political bias perspective. Or try to be middle of the road. You can incorporate a ton of readings or just rip through a textbook. It's incredibly flexible. The same with other "dictates."

So, for example, we've done US History extensively throughout elementary and middle school. In 6th grade they used my college textbooks as a spine, we read over a hundred books on US History from the library or used book shops. Most days, they wrote short responses to questions from the college textbook. I gave them practice assignments based on an APUSH Study Guide book that I got out of the bargain bin. They wrote essays, gave speeches, watched documentaries and read source documents. They memorized notable speeches and documents (for example, they can recite the Declaration of Independence and Emancipation Proclamation verbatim.) during elementary, but they analyzed them in more depth in middle school.

They have studied the US Constitution with me and though they can't recite the whole thing, they can quote/cite the document extensively. They listen to the audio of Supreme Court Cases and can explain the structure of the US Government at a fairly detailed level. They don't know who holds every position in Government, or who each senator is/was, but they know key figures.

In addition to the US History textbook, they've worked just as extensively from 2-volume college text for African American history and we've done a text on US Womens History as well.

They are well-versed in but sick of US History. There isn't really a good reason to keep doing US History--even though colleges want them to study it between 9th-12th grade, they've already become quite familiar and well versed with far more detail of US History than most registered voters have learned.

For highschool, their plan is to do African History, A Survey of Asian History, Japanese History and Latin American History.

They're hopefully becoming global citizens--they know their countries history and quite well. We've done a lot of World History (en espanol) and they'll continue to read (en Spanish) on World History..

Likewise, our planned Highschool Math courses were going to be
    Single Variable Calculus
    Differential Equations
    Multivariable Calculus
    Numerical Analysis
    Linear Algebra
    Mathematical Statistics

But our state "requires" that they take Algebra 1 and Geometry during highschool. They mastered Algebra 1 (and 2) and Geometry years ago. We're just going to list Calculus and above on the transcript with a footnote that the prerequsite material was covered before 9th grade.

 

Quote

Of course, this gets to some deeper questions about what makes a good education. Is it checking off the boxes as quickly as possible or does it necessitate taking time to really go in depth. From your thread on writing, I have the sense that you're not in favor of that, but to me, a lot of the material in the humanities just takes time to engage with or your engagement has been surface level. In math and sciences, that's true in a really different way - but you can definitely master material and fly through it - but then you show that by continuing to master higher and higher order skills and information until you reach a level that forces you to take longer to master it. In the humanities... I mean, you're never done reading a philosopher or a work of literature from an academic perspective. And reading more bulk is good, but so is revisiting and going into more depth. Same with history and psychology and government and so forth - there are always more theories to explore, more perspectives to consider. Even people with Phd's in these subjects don't know everything about them.

I'm confused. You get the sense that I'm not in favor of what exactly?

 

 

 

 

[kiwik]

19 hours ago, Gil said:

Admissions to our state colleges seems fairly test-based.

I definitely didn't have a wonderful transcript or anything like that. But I got into college based on tests. After the first semester it really didn't matter how I'd gotten in. Once in college, whether or not I stayed in was again based on tests in each class--and of course ethical behavior.

MANY US Universities want you to "have a solid transcript" (aka dictate your highschool experience) but that's an awful lot of time and energy to devote and sacrifice just for it to not wind up mattering after 1 semester. [Yes, I know that the foundation you bring from highschool helps you to keep up in college level courses, in theory, but I found that to be true in only a couple of classes. You can ace Gen Ed courses (ie the first 2 years of college) with great study and test taking skills alone.

So long as we're earnestly preparing for their future goals, I'm not sure how/why it matters which "expected" courses we don't do. US College admission requirements are very limiting too.

The Boys want to continue to study languages, mathematics, computers and they're going to continue reading and writing broadly.
They want to continue to have sufficient time to build their business, volunteer and play sports.

Sorry I mean kids have to get level 3 NCEA for university entrance.  This is based more than half on internal assessments which can't be done by home schoolers.  There a a couple of subjects that there are the required credits can be gained by external exam but you would have to do 3 papers in the same time the school students do 1 or 2 (it is 3 hours for the calculus exam for instance whether you do 1, 2 or 3 of the components.  Being able to do 4 years of science, 4 years maths etc then maybe sit the SAT seems like it should have a lot of flex although There seem to be more required areas.  (There is a way of sitting SATs here but I don't know how easy they are to access).

 

Eta. There are ways round this but the playing field is distinctly uneven.

Edited October 14, 2021 by kiwik

[Lori D.]

On 10/13/2021 at 8:39 PM, Gil said:

...They are well-versed in but sick of US History. There isn't really a good reason to keep doing US History--even though colleges want them to study it between 9th-12th grade...

You might consider having them take the CLEP in US History, which would most likely take care of any potential push-back a future college might give you about no US History credit during the 4 years prior to entering college. Taking a few weeks to review the CLEP booklet on US History, and then spending $125 to take the CLEP test at a local college that offers CLEP testing, to knock out a 3-unit college course by exam that also checks a box off of the degree program's list of required courses would be a pretty painless way to put the final stamp of finality on your DSs' US History studies. 😉

In fact, from your description above of your DSs' future plans, Buddy might be interested in knocking out a number of CLEPs in the next years during high school to even further reduce time needed in college. Just a thought. Here is the list of CLEP tests at the CLEP website. 

If that possibility is of interest to you and Buddy, definitely research the policy of the future university of interest to find out:

1. What is their policy on maximum credits from CLEP + AP tests + DE credits accepted towards the degree program -- most place an upper limit on the total credits they will accept from the combination of all credits from:
• credit by exam (CLEP, AP, DSST)
• and college credits (high school student DE, and college student transferring credits from another college

2. And find the list of which *specific* CLEP tests the university accepts as credits for the degree program -- if the CLEP exam is listed as being accepted as an "elective", then it will NOT count towards the degree, and it's not worth taking the CLEP if the point is to knock out credits by exam

SIDE NOTE, about DE -- if planning on DE while doing high school, check to make sure that there is NOT a limit on how many credits the student can take from DE and still be considered an incoming freshman (for scholarship purposes) -- some schools have no limit; other schools only allow 24 credits; a few schools only allow as few as 12 credits. If the future university does have a DE credit limit, and your student goes over the limit, that means the student is considered a transfer student, rather than a freshman, which impacts scholarship money awards.

 

On 10/13/2021 at 8:39 PM, Gil said:

...They mastered Algebra 1 (and 2) and Geometry years ago. We're just going to list Calculus and above on the transcript with a footnote that the prerequsite material was covered before 9th grade.

That works great. Colleges will be fine with that. I'd recommend ALSO listing Algebra 2 as completed prior to high school, since colleges usually require a credit of Alg. 2 as well, as part of their admissions process.

The nice thing is that with such a rigorous and robust transcript, colleges are unlikely to pitch a fit about 6 math credits, and all Calculus above, on the transcript. 😉