Language Arts, help me think through this...

[Pata]

We are getting ready to move overseas, so I'm trying to figure out what we will use next year so I can take it with us or have a plan on how to get it. Language Arts is giving me problems, as usual! We definately will be doing copywork and narration. We are going to finish phonics then go to spelling with Hannah's Word Attack. But the grammar part is giving me problems. We have used FLL and are about halfway through, I'm not sure that I want to continue with the series. Although dd can spit back grammar facts, I'm not sure she's learning what they mean. I have Rod and Staff English 2, but it seems so textbookish and I'm not sure that I want to go that route, yet. So, can I pick the hive mind brain??

 

1. Those of you who wait until 3rd grade or later to do grammar, why? Can you point me to some articles that explain why you would wait? And if you have waited, can you share a success story?

 

2. Those of you who go the natural language, like Queen's or PLL, why? What is it that helped you to be confident in the natural approach vs. the textbookish approach? Any success stories?

 

3. Those of you who use the textbook approach, why did you choose that route? Any success stories?

 

Thanks for your patience! I'm just trying to wrap my brain around where I want to go over the next several years since it won't be easy (or cheap) to make changes.

[Testimony]

I am trying to decide what to do in terms of grammar next year for my older son too. Here's my thoughts (I'm thinking out loud):

1. I did wait until third grade for both of my sons. I taught them slowly by having them underline nouns and verbs in second grade. I would read a story to them. They would ask me the meaning of a word. I would have them look it up in the dictionary. Sometimes, a word had more than one meaning if it was a noun, a verb, or whatever. I would tell them look at the sentence and let us try and figure out what part of speech it fits. We did this almost daily, but more weekly.

2. I read to my younger son a grammar book that I found online for free called Grammar-Land. We are having a blast learning the different parts of speech. We read about Judge Grammar's kingdom and the different noblemen that own different parts of speech. Some parts of speech own more than others. So, they are taking each other to present their cases. After Grammar-Land, I will do a more formal grammar program with him. Do you have access to a computer overseas? Maybe you could print the book out. We love it.

 

I guess that you can go with Rod and Staff if that if it is helpful for you.

Blessings in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[rafiki]

.

[Another Lynn]

I did not appreciate the foundation that FLL 1/2 was giving us until we got to FLL3. Now, I love FLL 3. It is scripted, gentle, yet thorough. My ds thinks he is a grammar genius, LOL. I did not do FLL 1/2 consistently with my oldest, but plan to with my next. FLL 1/2 takes so little time and now I see that the pay off will be worth it.

 

There's also nothing wrong with delaying grammar, imho. But just wanted to give you another perspective on FLL.

[Haiku]

 

2. Those of you who go the natural language, like Queen's or PLL, why? What is it that helped you to be confident in the natural approach vs. the textbookish approach?

 

I am planning to use PLL with my kids when they are in second grade. Why do I feel confident enough to not use textbooks? Because I was taught grammar by textbooks, and I know that, for me, grammar divorced from meaning was a waste of time. I finally got a good handle on English grammar when I studied another language. To me, textbook pages full of example sentences is an exercise in busy work, not learning.

 

Tara

[PeterPan]

I'm with Tracy in suggesting that you might not realize how valuable FLL was until you get a bit farther. A 2nd grader doesn't NEED to do more with grammar than what FLL has them doing. They aren't able to comprehend it much beyond the level of what FLL expects, and to try to do more just leaves them thinking grammar is HARD, which it's not. So many people have phobias about grammar because it was whomped on them and made too hard too early. Why do that? Just keep it gentle. FLL1/2 is a FABULOUS foundation. My dd, having completed that and some Shurley Grammar, did exceptionally well with the grammar in WT2 last year, and she's NOT a grammar buff. I wish the other kids in the class had had such an easy to accomplish foundation of memorization! You're going to have years and years to do more analysis with it. For right now, the memorization of FLL is enough.

 

What you can do though is go on to do some Mad Libs when your dc finishes it. Or if you think he/she is ready for more, pick up the pace, finish out FLL (don't toss, just finish!), and then move on to the 3rd gr grammar book of your choice. That's what many of us did, completing FLL more quickly and moving on. We tried R&S, didn't like it, and move on to Shurley, which has been a great fit for us. Some people like GwG. Just look at the samples and pick something. Truly though, you could continue FLL into FLL3, which introduces diagramming, and that will be plenty alongside a writing program like CW or WT (my fav) that also includes grammar. You don't have to whomp them with grammar when you can get it integrated in their writing program.

 

You might also like Prima Latina or Song School Latin. We did PL when my dd was that age, and it's so gentle and pleasant, again a nice touch of contextualized grammar. That's why you don't have to have grammar so hard, because you can sneak it in and reinforce it contextually in their writing and latin programs! As the others said, a foreign language is actually the best way to nail grammar. :)

[Pata]

Thanks guys for your replies!

 

Tracy and OhElizabeth, Thanks for sharing about FLL, it's not that we don't like it, I'm just having a hard time seeing the value in it at this point. Thanks for sharing how it has had purpose for you. I do like the idea of using Latin to help with grammar instruction.

 

Karen, Michelle and Tara, Thanks for sharing your thoughts too. I found the Grammar Land book on Google, it looks neat! I'm finding it hard to trust in the delayed, natural method, but at the same time I really don't want to overload. My thinking is that we could save the time now and then hit grammar later when she can pick it up faster and understand it better. My question is, would that really happen?

 

Anyone else??

Edited December 9, 2008 by Pata

[LisaKinVA]

With my oldest, we did Abeka. It was fine -- but probably more writing work than he really needed.

 

I have (as well as the children) been enjoying FLL 1/2 this year. The oral lessons are more than enough for my younger two, and even my 9yo enjoys doing some of the chants/songs/poems as well. We don't do all of the writing assignments, since they have other copy work -- and they don't seem to need it. But it seems to be accomplishing what I had envisioned.

 

My 1st grader will be entering K12 Language Arts next year at the 3rd grade level, and my Ker placed into the 3rd grade level as well (but I'm NOT doing K12 LA for him, I know the writing portion is just too much for him to handle). So it definitely lays an excellent foundation.

 

We'll be switching my Ker to Abeka 2 or 3 (I'll make that decision later) for next year. The colorful workbooks are a definite plus for my family.

[Testimony]

I feel that delaying grammar does not mean that I do absolutely no grammar. I just do not formalize it by using a method. I believe (and correct me if I am wrong) that in First Language Lessons, they have the child doing poetry memorizations and copywork and narrating a story and examining a picture.

 

Well, my sons both do AWANA, a Bible club. They have to memorize a lot of scripture. One way I have them copy the scripture to help them remember. I have my children memorize poems from Amblesideonline recommendations and they narrate back their read alouds from Amblesideonline as well. We examine art by observing pictures and telling our own story that we see in the picture. FLL has put all the above mentioned into a book. It has narration, copywork, grammar, memorization, etc. So, is it really delaying grammar? It depends on you, the teacher, and your child, the student.

 

Blessing in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Pata]

Karen-

 

What a great point! I'm a science/math person so I'm constantly questioning Language Arts and if it's enough or too much. I have a hard time trusting my gut on this one. I also forget that language arts is already integrated in other parts of our studies, thanks for the reminder.

 

Thanks for letting me think this through out loud. Anyone else??

[Laura Corin]

This is hard, because I suspect it depends on the child. I have two voracious readers - they inhale books, and in the process absorb good spelling, punctuation and grammar. I give the boys pointers, and they use integrated English programmes with light grammar (Galore Park), but basically, it's the mounds of good books that they read which teach them what they need to know.

 

Success stories? They came first and third in our neighbourhood spelling bee in the last place I lived. Both could recognise how to use a colon by the age of six or seven. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times that they have written a sentence fragment.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[ElizabethB]

You could buy some mad libs!

 

There are also a lot of free ones online, I'm not sure what your internet access and printing status will be, many foreign countries have different sized paper, it well work fairly well in an inkjet but generally not a laserjet. If you're a military family, you can buy normal sized paper there. (And also, get normal shipping rates for many, but not all, companies.)

 

I would get "English Grammar for Students of Latin" for you to better understand the grammar yourself and make it easier to teach.

 

I would try to buy ahead with material with good resale value and sell whatever you don't need to keep or didn't like when you come back.

[Caroline4kids]

I have been a long time CMer and have always distrusted myself... until they start to hate writing and reading due to heavy grammar lessons that I subjected them to in a moment of weakness!

 

I have recently found the Queen's homeschool language lessons and am in love! I love the fact that they have real picture study included and touch on enough "regular" grammar to make my doubtfulness relax a little.

 

We tried Shurley English earlier this year and the kids LOVED the jingles and hated everything else. Shurley is as far from CM as you can get, but I had a weak moment, again. Now we just review the parts of speech jingles here and there and listen to the cd to review. After this experiment I went back to my CM ways and shortly after we found Queen's. I love that it is a workbook, but has real CM lessons.

 

The things I adore about natural language lessons are the oral narration lessons and picture study. My 7 year old narrated from a painting today and it lasted 7 minutes. That is a long time for a little guy to coordinate thoughts and sentences. He had a complete story line with a lot of feeling.

 

Anyway, just another $.02

[Pata]

Laura-thanks for the reminder about the importance of reading/reading aloud. We love to read here, but I forget the many benefits!

 

Elizabeth-Mad Libs online, what a great idea! We will have computer/printer access for the school year.

 

Caroline-I have just discover CM this year and the parts we have implemented have been extremely successful. I am just paranoid that if I give language arts over, we will miss something. Thanks for sharing your story, it helps! I'll check out Queens.

 

Anyone else? This is really helping me to think through it all!