Tami and other CM devotees, may I ask a few questions?

[Jennefer@SSA]

I have ordered A Charlotte Mason Education and More Charlotte Mason Education to start learning more about Miss Mason's ideas and practical ways to apply them. I plan on reading them both over our break to see if CM will be as good of a fit as I think it will be.

 

Can you give any more advice about transitioning to CM education? Should I just jump and do it 100% or gradually ease in? Right now we are pretty much 100% on a WTM track.

 

Thanks!

[mnllj7]

I absolutely love the CM way of schooling. Have you looked and read all the interest items on Simply Charlotte Mason? It is such a great Web site, it gives you ideas on schooling, it has scheduling, it has forms to copy and make your own schedules, It has books to look up. It is awesome, Along with the books you are reading. You will do great. If you have already been doing narrating and dictation, there is not a whole lot of difference. you will have nature studies, pictures studies, poetry, music, things of this nature, only if you want to add them in. The nice thing is it is up to you!!! I Hope you enjoy the charlotte Mason approach as much as i do, I also hope you enjoy the Simply Charlotte mason website. God bless, nancyt.

[sweetbaby]

There is helpful info at Simply Charlotte Mason on that very topic. It really helped us along with the same books you have ordered.

[sagira]

I own and have read Charlotte Mason's works, A Charlotte Mason Companion, When Children Love to Learn and Pocketful of Pinecones. I have also read A Charlotte Mason Education, More Charlotte Mason Education, For the Children's Sake and Teaching Children.

 

I found the information on Charlotte Mason and Home Education to be really good. It's my favorite online link for a CM information refresher.

[Jennefer@SSA]

Thanks for that link. I will spend time there this evening!

[Jennefer@SSA]

Thank you for that link. I just popped over there to take a look! I appreciate it!

[sagira]

You're welcome :)

[Caroline4kids]

I absolutely love the CM way of schooling. Have you looked and read all the interest items on Simply Charlotte Mason? It is such a great Web site, it gives you ideas on schooling, it has scheduling, it has forms to copy and make your own schedules, It has books to look up. It is awesome, Along with the books you are reading. You will do great. If you have already been doing narrating and dictation, there is not a whole lot of difference. you will have nature studies, pictures studies, poetry, music, things of this nature, only if you want to add them in. The nice thing is it is up to you!!! I Hope you enjoy the charlotte Mason approach as much as i do, I also hope you enjoy the Simply Charlotte mason website. God bless, nancyt.

 

 

I second that. I use the SCM organizer to log all my kids' work. I also just added the Queen Homeschool Language Lessons and LOVE them. They are very different than what you may be used to, but they are what I have been attempting to make and use for the last five years! They really give you a feel for CM short lessons. My boys couldn't wait to get started.

[Jennefer@SSA]

Thank you very much. I feel like I have some excellent resources to help me get started now!

[coffeefreak]

We have been slowly easing into Charlotte Mason for the last couple of years. We don't do everything CM. I use Horizons for math because I finally found a math program that works for my oldest and we're sticking with it:D. I don't do copy work or dictation because my daughter is learning cursive this year and it seemed like overkill. Plus, she didn't seem to learn anything from dictation. She loves to write on her own, and she's a voracious reader. Sooooo, here's what we do:

 

Kindergarten:

A Beka and FIAR - obviously not totally CM, but close:lol:

 

3rd grade:

Ambleside Online for History and Reading doing narration orally and written. Adding timeline figures, and other various activities. (A mix of CM and WTM) BTW Ambleside Online has a lot of great resources and articles on their website.

 

Science - Jeannie Fulbright's Botany book - (CM)

 

Math- Horizons (not CM)

 

English - A Beka Language 3 (WTM/ not CM)

We tried Primary Language lessons, but it didn't really engage my daughter. She does really well learning the rule, practicing it, and moving on. She learns it the first time and retains it well so this has worked well for us.

 

Handwriting Without Tears - Not CM, but necessary for this year.

 

Artistic Pursuits - I think this is CM. We learn about artists, their work, and then we attempt to do the same thing (watercolors, pastels etc). We love it.

 

Handicrafts - I TRY to do this, but I have trouble with scheduling it this time of year. We did some things in the spring last year and I hope to continue that next year.

 

Foreign Language - ditto on the time thing. With a kindergartner in the mix, I decided to put this off another year.

 

So, there you have it. I would love to incorporate more, but this is what works for us. I think the books you've purchased are excellent resources, and I think that easing in and making small changes is an excellent idea since you're just starting out. As you can see, we consider ourselves CM enthusiasts, but that in no way means everything we do is 100% CM. I think the key is to finding what from her philosophy will work for you and your kids, and going with that.

 

HTH! Sorry It was so long!

Dorinda

[Tami]

Hi Jennefer,

 

I would wait and read the books, pray, discuss with your dh. If you like what you read, and you feel this would help your son, then I would to 100% full board CM. I only recommend this since you are dealing with a special needs child and have very specific goals. I know it's hard to wait when one is excited about something, but maybe you could give him a break for now, and just let him deschool until January.

 

In the meantime, have you had a chance to print out the first couple of chapters from Volume 1 or read from the computer? It is necessary to read Miss Mason's books to implement the CM method most successfully.

 

I would self-educate on CM for now, deschool your son, and begin full board when you have trained yourself as a CMer. Doing CM will be a very different experience for you, and will be difficult at first. If you are not grounded in the "why's" you may give up, assuming CM is not working, before it has had a chance to truly take root.

 

If you want to get him ready for CM, start purging twaddle from the house, and get him off videos, video games, and the like if that is a habit for him (don't know if it is or it isn't!) Let him get bored, if necessary, and pull out art materials, science materials, audio books, a music center, handicraft materials, etc for him to do. If you want to do CM, you will want to set up your environment for it first, and make sure you have read Volume 1.

 

I hope this doesn't overwhelm you. I want you to be successful, so I thought it might be best to be totally frank. :D

 

Blessings on your endeavor!

[Jennefer@SSA]

I hope this doesn't overwhelm you. I want you to be successful, so I thought it might be best to be totally frank. :D

 

Tami, thank you very much. It doesn't overwhelm me at all; it's actually exactly one of the things I've needed...practical "how to advice" on where to get started. I am very appreciative since it can be very overwhelming to even consider something so different in many ways.

 

One question...I ordered Charlotte Mason Education and More Charlotte Mason education from Amazon (they are not available from our library). Would you recommend starting with those to get a general overview or go straight to Vol. 1? I was worried about starting with Vol. 1 that I would feel overwhelmed with feeling the need to read all 6 volumes before beginning. What do you think? Also, can I read the modern English version or is too much lost in the translation? I want to read her works in their original form if I need to but aware that it would take me much longer that way as well.

 

Thank you again!

[Tami]

Hi Jennefer,

 

Yes, and no.

 

No, you do not need to read all six volumes. The are for different ages and stages. All you need to read is Volume 1.

 

Yes, I'd recommend reading volume 1 before attempting CM, in your specific situation. Can you read one chapter a week? I found it least overwhelming to print out one chapter at a time from AO -- in modern English! You will not have any problem reading it, in fact, I think you will rather enjoy yourself!!! Why not print out the Preface and Part 1 right now? :D

Edited December 10, 2008 by Tami

[Jennefer@SSA]

Tami, thank you and off to print those right now! :)

 

Also, I don't know if you saw my thread on the General Board but Thatch was diagnosed with Asperger's yesterday. We knew that was a possibility but still it's hard to hear. The ADHD is the more pressing and obvious issue because it is so "in your face" as the doctor explained but the Asperger's is very pronounced as well. So much as we just always thought was his quirkiness (and we all have quirks :D) is really Asperger's. So now more than ever I am feeling that I need to research CM.

[Tami]

Tami, thank you and off to print those right now! :)

 

Also, I don't know if you saw my thread on the General Board but Thatch was diagnosed with Asperger's yesterday. We knew that was a possibility but still it's hard to hear. The ADHD is the more pressing and obvious issue because it is so "in your face" as the doctor explained but the Asperger's is very pronounced as well. So much as we just always thought was his quirkiness (and we all have quirks :D) is really Asperger's. So now more than ever I am feeling that I need to research CM.

 

Yes, CM will be very helpful for the ADHD part. The basic tenants of CM will work for any child, and the specific materials can be modified, if needed, for an Aspie later. CM had special needs children in her classrooms, and kids from all walks of life. Her kids were not the 'perfect,' intellectually ellite -- they were regular kids, often from disadvantaged homes.

[Emmy]

Jumping in with a question for Tami - do you have suggestions for handicrafts for boys? I'm really not interested in teaching my boys to knit or do sewing projects but I'm not sure what types of things to have them do for "masterly inactivity". Right now when they aren't schooling they spend most of their time building with legos, playing pretend with playmobil sets, building with other various building type sets, doing free art time, looking at books etc. I'd like to find some handicraft ideas where they could make something to give to others but I think they are too young for woodworking (which seems a natural suggestion...). If you have any ideas, I'd appreciate them.

[Tami]

I don't have boys, but will highly recommend a resource, if you don't mind Christian content.

 

THere is a boys' and girls' version, and they are the best source for handicraft and practical life ideas I have ever found. All you need is the Contenders handbook! You can see sample pages and the table of contents - it is really comprehensive and will last for years.

 

HTH!

Edited December 10, 2008 by Tami

[Emmy]

That looks perfect Tami - thanks so much!

[Trivium Academy]

Jen,

I would advise changing one thing at a time, doing it all at once would be too much for you to keep up with. Shorter lessons is a good place to start overall imo then work on habits. After you read you can go through each subject and see how you can modify your current lessons to conform to a more CM philosophy, you may find some subjects that you want to drop curricula and change to something that is more open ended.

 

When we switched it was gradual.

Shorter lessons and habit training (one habit at a time, this is ongoing so it's not something to start and think, it's done...next. lol)

 

History: SOTW to TOG (using whole and living books)

 

Grammar: FLL to Primary Language Lessons with a few mistakes in-between ;)

 

Copywork: From copywork in history, literature and science to just doing poetry copywork plus what is in PLL

 

Adding nature studies, composer studies, art, handicrafts and the things that are specific to CM philosophy

 

Foreign Language- CM started French and Latin and added other languages, I've dropped French until after Latin at this point but read about Latin extensively in her books and on Ambleside Online before deciding to start Prima Latina.

 

This isn't to say your experience should or will be like mine but I do recommend going subject by subject to see where you may want to make changes in approach or curricula to accomplish what philosophy you decide you like. You don't have to like it all, I saw where someone said that CM works if you use the entire philosophy, I can't speak to that but I know our lives have been greatly enriched by adopting a great number of CM philosophy and techniques.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Trivium Academy

[Rhonda@LivingWater]

That Contenders book looks wonderful! My girls have no problem with finding crafts and things to do, but it is harder for my son.

I'm going to order that for him and I thank you for recommending it.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Jumping in with a question for Tami - do you have suggestions for handicrafts for boys? I'm really not interested in teaching my boys to knit or do sewing projects but I'm not sure what types of things to have them do for "masterly inactivity". Right now when they aren't schooling they spend most of their time building with legos, playing pretend with playmobil sets, building with other various building type sets, doing free art time, looking at books etc. I'd like to find some handicraft ideas where they could make something to give to others but I think they are too young for woodworking (which seems a natural suggestion...). If you have any ideas, I'd appreciate them.

 

Emmy,

 

I would have originally thought 6 was too young for woodworking too but really, you must check out this book. Jack McKee advocates only hand tools for young kids and there are truly some projects in here for kids as young as four. The book has so many super projects--not just a few that might be OK--tons that are wonderful! My dad is a woodworking hobbyist and is giving this book and a wonderful set of hand tools to my almost 6 year old for Christmas.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Woodshop-Kids-Jack-McKee/dp/1884894534/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228938698&sr=8-1

 

Granted, the boys will need supervision and some assistance (especially depending on their reading level) but the projects are definitely within their ability level.

 

Jennefer,

 

Sorry, don't mean to hijack, so I'll add something to the original subject as I've been watching this thread...

 

I would also recommend making small changes and easing into changes little by little. I would say pick the CM technique that feels the most natural to you or that you think your son would enjoy most and pick that one first. We started with poetry. Every day we have tea and poetry time. (It sounds so much more complex than it really is but the kids adore it and it made the first CM step feel positively easy.) We added music study at breakfast and art study at lunch. Then we added nature study. We love it so much that we take all day every Friday doing it at a nearby state park. My kids are too young for narration but I'm working on the baby steps by asking the kids some questions every few pages while we're reading. And so on and so on...

 

New habits can be hard to form if it's an all or nothing proposition. By gradually incorporating change, you can keep from overwhelming yourself or your kids. I will also say that I think WTM and CM marry quite well.

 

Good luck! Charlotte Mason's methods and philosophy are what keep me grounded when I feel overwhelmed at the daunting task before me.

 

Kristina

[Emmy]

Kristina - Thank you so much for the woodworking book suggestion!

 

 

On the subject of incorporating CM....I've been adding in little things here and there and making changes as I go. I'm not sure I see myself ever being a full-out CM homeschooler but I see myself blending WTM and CM.

 

 

Things I've added:

 

picture study

composer study

nature walks and journal (just started last month)

asking the boys to narrate in CM style after read alouds & their own reading

shorter lessons

- and as can be seen in my posts above, I'm working on the whole masterly inactivity thing

 

We were already doing the whole/living books thing for our studies - this is an area where I don't see a vast divide between WTM and CM since both emphasize similar books. I have started looking at the Ambleside bookslists more though!

 

Things I'm not sure about:

 

Grammar - I'm not sure about starting grammar later than 3rd grade. I feel a bit unsure on that.

 

The difference in narration between CM and WTM - I struggle with this. Currently I am having the boys narrate CM style from read alouds, their individual reading and science books but we do WTM style in WWE and history. I really haven't been able to wrap my head around which is better and why.

 

Twaddle - the definition of twaddle eludes me. I get the obvious ones (captain underpants anyone?) but I am still unsure about things like Magic Schoolbus or the Read and Find out Science series. I suspect some CMers consider them twaddle but I have this sort of - well if those are wrong then I don't want to be right (LOL) kind of attitude there. Also - I get tripped up on the no abridged books thing (not for what I read to them, but what they read to themselves). I'm pretty comfortable with what my kids are reading though so I it hasn't been a top priority for me to dig deep on this.

 

I think adding CM style to your studies little by little might be easier but I'm not sure if the impact will be as great given your situation with the adhd.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

I have ordered A Charlotte Mason Education and More Charlotte Mason Education to start learning more about Miss Mason's ideas and practical ways to apply them. I plan on reading them both over our break to see if CM will be as good of a fit as I think it will be.

 

Can you give any more advice about transitioning to CM education? Should I just jump and do it 100% or gradually ease in? Right now we are pretty much 100% on a WTM track.

 

Thanks!

 

Jennefer,

 

Have you seen this? I really don't think going from WTM to CM is necessarily going to be a 100% transition.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/charlottemason.html

 

Kristina

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Kristina - Thank you so much for the woodworking book suggestion!

 

You're welcome. :)

 

On the subject of incorporating CM....I've been adding in little things here and there and making changes as I go. I'm not sure I see myself ever being a full-out CM homeschooler but I see myself blending WTM and CM.

 

My personal feeling on this is that just because I think CM was brilliant and I feel at home in her philosophy doesn't mean that no one else since has had anything equally or more important to add on the subject of education. I would call myself a CM homeschooler with a healthy dose of WTM and a dash of Ruth Beechick. I don't think doing 50% or 75% or 90% CM makes anyone a failure at CM. Rather, it makes me 100% comfortable with the fact that I'm in charge, not a slave to a philosophy. I've got some great tools to help me navigate but, frankly, I'm the one steering this ship. I'm the one responsible for making sure my kids reach their destination well-prepared for life (and without a mutiny)!

 

Things I'm not sure about:

 

Grammar - I'm not sure about starting grammar later than 3rd grade. I feel a bit unsure on that.

 

Me too. I go back and forth. Then I hear my kids speaking (and my oldest writing) with proper grammar and think, eh. None of my kids may know the definition of an adverb until they're 8 years old but if my two year old knows how language works well enough to use adverbs correctly ("Look Mommy! I did it pwoperwee!"), I think we're doing OK. :)

 

Twaddle - the definition of twaddle eludes me. I get the obvious ones (captain underpants anyone?) but I am still unsure about things like Magic Schoolbus or the Read and Find out Science series. I suspect some CMers consider them twaddle but I have this sort of - well if those are wrong then I don't want to be right (LOL) kind of attitude there.

 

I know just what you mean. I think twaddle is in the eye of the beholder. I also take exception to the "literary quality" qualification. That's me, 100%. I read everything I can get my hands on and I love high quality literature. I love reading the kids stories and I have the hardest time reading fact books like DK books. Most CM people would say they're twaddle. I'll admit I've actually hidden them from my son when I can't take anymore but Dad... Dad could read them over and over and love it every time. Captions? No problem. Flitting from diagram label to diagram label. No problem. Argh! I'm uncomfortable just typing about it. Give me a story any day!

 

But, doesn't the fact that they love them mean anything? Doesn't the fact that my son knows every part of an insect and can name virtually every part of a car mean anything? I mean, I'm impressed with it! It may not be how my brain works, but does the term living books necessarily have to preclude "just the facts, ma'am" books? At my house it doesn't. For example, my husband is a Maitenance Test Pilot, so his whole work world is training manuals, maintenance schedules, checklists, wiring and mechanical diagrams and, last but certainly not least, there's the cockpit full of buttons that he has to know when to push. For some people, some careers, some futures these books are incredibly important and necessary. I think I would rather my doctor have studied a DK-like presentation of the human body instead of an Fabre's Story Book of Science type interpretation, you know? It all makes me need a Tylenol but that's because I'm a "literary quality" kind of girl.

 

I personally believe there is a place for all kinds of living books, not just the fine prose. You have to work with your kids' strengths.

 

Also - I get tripped up on the no abridged books thing (not for what I read to them, but what they read to themselves).

 

OK. No kidding! This is my biggest pet peeve! I find it very bizarre when people can say they're against abridged books and then recommend reading Shakespeare rewritten for children. Huh? What's the difference? I mean, fine. Read the Shakespeare translated for children but please don't pretend that somehow that's different or better than reading abridged versions of novels. If anyone can explain this, I'd love to hear an answer. :confused:

 

This is a very interesting thread. I love the before and after info about transitions to CM.

 

Kristina

Edited December 10, 2008 by Alte Veste Academy

[Emmy]

thanks for all your thoughts Kristina - I *loved* this one...

 

Then I hear my kids speaking (and my oldest writing) with proper grammar and think, eh.

 

I have so many moments like that!

 

I appreciate your insight. :)

[Jennefer@SSA]

I agree that this has been such a helpful thread! Thanks everyone who has chimed in. I've learned so much and it's fun that others have benefited too.

 

Here's one more thought to throw out there...so many (not in this thread) have mentioned that CM is soooo much like TWTM. I can definitely see similarities; there are many. But I am seeing more and more the differences - greater emphasis (imo) on no twaddle, no abridged books (realizing like the above poster said that not everyone follows this), character training, short lessons, delayed grammar, focus on educating the whole child -spirit, mind, body (again not that those Classically educating their children don't do this but there's no chapter in TWTM about it for sure!), 6 year history cycle.....

 

Here's what I am wondering...to what extent do you need to adhere to CM philosophies to get the maximum (or even a significant) benefit? I would love for some CM "purists" to chime in here if any are reading. I still have much to learn so my ignorance may be showing here. I have just started reading the first chapter in Vol. 1 of Miss Mason's works today.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

So many have mentioned that CM is soooo much like TWTM. I can definitely see similarities; there are many. But I am seeing more and more the differences - greater emphasis (imo) on no twaddle, no abridged books (realizing like the above poster said that not everyone follows this), character training, short lessons, delayed grammar, focus on educating the whole child -spirit, mind, body (again not that those Classically educating their children don't do this but there's no chapter in TWTM about it for sure!), 6 year history cycle......

 

Well, when you put it that way... :iagree:

 

You're right! And I'm one of the ones who said how similar they are! I guess what matters is the lens through which you're viewing things. I read CM (and a lot of it) well before reading WTM. So, I viewed WTM through the lens of all the ideas I had already assimilated into my personal homeschooling philosophy prior to that point. Basically, I loved CM and when I read WTM I was more prone to notice where they were similar and then mentally discard the aspects that didn't match my own beliefs or were too different. (For the record, although I love nature study, I'm not a huge fan of science with either philosophy and I'm going my own way.) Conversely, if someone had never read any CM philosophy and had begun with WTM, their lens would be a bit different and things like short lessons, viewing the child "as a person" as CM said, and the importance of habit formation would stand out more. For me, they were already givens because my starting point was different.

 

What I meant about CM not being a 180 degree turn from WTM was that I believe it is possible that many resources could work in either a WTM or CM based homeschool. Implementation of resources would be where you would see the difference in philosophies.

 

But, yes, you're right. :)

 

to what extent do you need to adhere to CM philosophies to get the maximum (or even a significant) benefit?

 

Most CM purists will tell you that to glean 100% of the benefits, you should strive toward 100% implementation. However, it's important to note that anything available as CM curriculum these days is an interpretation. Even Ambleside Online's curriculum is a best guess as to what would be chosen by CM if she were alive today. No one can know for sure. That's one of the reasons I recommend When Children Love to Learn as my favorite CM resource. It goes over and over the fact that a CM education is about the philosophy and methods, not specific books or curricula.

 

http://www.amazon.com/When-Children-Love-Learn-Application/dp/1581342594/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228968882&sr=8-1

 

If I were trying to implement CM for the first time, I would study each of her methods carefully, one by one. The resources you use are important and certainly there should be no twaddle, but the methods are the heart of a CM style education. I'm watching with interest to see what others have to say.

 

Kristina

Edited December 11, 2008 by Alte Veste Academy

[sagira]

Most CM purists will tell you that to glean 100% of the benefits, you should strive toward 100% implementation. However, it's important to note that anything available as CM curriculum these days is an interpretation. Even Ambleside Online's curriculum is a best guess as to what would be chosen by CM if she were alive today. No one can know for sure. That's one of the reasons I recommend When Children Love to Learn as my favorite CM resource. It goes over and over the fact that a CM education is about the philosophy and methods, not specific books or curricula.

 

http://www.amazon.com/When-Children-Love-Learn-Application/dp/1581342594/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228968882&sr=8-1

Kristina

:iagree: I couldn't agree more. When Children Love to Learn is an excellent book. It's sub headed A Practical Application of Charlotte Mason's Philosophy for Today -- and it's correct. When I read CM's works, I was struck by the timelessness of her methods, of how her philosophy can stand the test of time. She herself wanted that the curricula would be updated and refreshed, not for it to be stagnant. I see her as a woman with an eye towards the future, and I actually believe she would have appreciated some innovations, such as educational uses of TV programs, videos and the Internet. All within the framework of her basic beliefs about education of course.

 

It is my opinion that when you read and if you agree with her basic philosophy and start to see the child/children in the way she does, you're already a big step ahead. Then you can go on and read some more, ruminate some and you can pick a few of her basics that resonate with you, e.g. narration, nature study, shorter lessons and start implementing them. Try them out. Keep the philosophy in mind and heart. Slowly work your way towards easing into the method rather than jumping in head first.

 

HTH :)

[at the beach]

I agree that this has been such a helpful thread! Thanks everyone who has chimed in. I've learned so much and it's fun that others have benefited too.

 

Here's one more thought to throw out there...so many (not in this thread) have mentioned that CM is soooo much like TWTM. I can definitely see similarities; there are many. But I am seeing more and more the differences - greater emphasis (imo) on no twaddle, no abridged books (realizing like the above poster said that not everyone follows this), character training, short lessons, delayed grammar, focus on educating the whole child -spirit, mind, body (again not that those Classically educating their children don't do this but there's no chapter in TWTM about it for sure!), 6 year history cycle.....

 

Here's what I am wondering...to what extent do you need to adhere to CM philosophies to get the maximum (or even a significant) benefit? I would love for some CM "purists" to chime in here if any are reading. I still have much to learn so my ignorance may be showing here. I have just started reading the first chapter in Vol. 1 of Miss Mason's works today.

 

Jennefer, I read your post regarding your son's diagnosis. I'm glad that you finally have answers. My dd 9 has been diagnosed with a lot of different things, including ADHD and NLD. NLD is quite similar to Asperger's and HFA in many ways. CM has made a huge difference in our lives here, especially with my 9yo. I believe that in order for CM's ideas to work for your child, you really need to adhere to her principles as fully as you can. Two more book suggestions are When Children Love to Learn and For the Children's Sake. If you haven't read those, I encourage you to do so. Nothing, however, can replace reading CM herself.

 

I would also recommend that while you are familiarizing yourself with CM, give yourself permission to take some time to just step back from formal schooling and deschool your son. He's only 7, looks like he's academically advanced, and perhaps time away from formal schooling for a few months might be helpful as you transition to CM. During that time, you can have lots of learning going on. Artwork on your screensaver, nature walks and learning to identify birds, wildflowers, leaves, baking, singing, listening to classical music, and free reading and math games. Give him a nice journal that he can write anything he wants in, a Bible verse, a line of a poem. My girls love the Dover coloring books like Fifty Famous Birds, for example.

 

Just some general thoughts of what CM means to me: Habit training, short lessons, nature study, lots of time in nature, copywork, narration, and later dictation. Delayed grammar instruction. Real books. No busywork. Helping children learn for themselves. Understanding that everyone takes something different away from material they are exposed to. Allowing kids to make their own connections. Exposure to the fine arts--poetry, music, artists. I see CM as going to the heart of a child, appreciating that child where he or she is and respecting that. Believing that every child can benefit from exposure to beautiful things. Knowing that my 9 yo special needs child can benefit from Shakespeare and poetry, for example.

 

Oh, and I know you mention how the ADHD is very in your face. One thing that has helped my child IMMENSELY is lots of exercise. She's on a swim team, and believe me, this genuinely helps her. I know someone posted on this board a while back about a study with swimmers and how their ADHD was not diagnosed while in school because the intenseness of swimming helped manage the ADHD. Swim team has been a phenomenal thing for my child. It's a team sport so she gets to interact but it's highly individual. When she swims, she only has to worry about herself swimming. I'm now digressing, but I do know CM advocated exercise for kids, too. ;)

 

Best,

Anita

[Tammyla]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/charlottemason.php

 

Link to an article from Susan, way back on the dear old board.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Here are some links that have been helpful to me.

 

A nice presentation of the basic PNEU curriculum from CM's schools:

http://www.charlottesdaughters.org/

(Click on the left to see the grade by grade breakdown. Notice on the front page how they say CM's kids were taught in three four year cycles, beginning with the history of their own country.)

 

For those who haven't ever seen them, these links are so much fun to look through. They're for the brick and mortar Ambleside Schools that are in the United States right now. There is one here in Texas, in Fredericksburg, that's not too far from me. I dream of doing one of their trainings one day. We'll see...

 

http://www.amblesideschools.com/ambleside_schools.html

http://www.perimeterschools.org/new/index.php

 

There is a lot of great stuff to wade through but you can come up with gems like this...

http://www.perimeterschool.org/images/PERIMETER007/PERIMETER007_24535.pdf

Now, I personally find Saxon Math and ABeka Grammar odd choices for a brick and mortar CM school but it just goes to show how opinions on actual resources can vary wildly. It really is more about methods.

 

At any rate, it is very interesting to see the resources that are being used by these schools and how they're implementing these methods with school children today. You can peek in their newsletters, resource lists, etc. As far as history rotation, by the way, the one for Perimeter School in GA is different also (2 years of home country, one year world history overview and geography, followed by a five year world history rotation). Again, methods matter more than strict schedules, I think.

 

Enjoy!

 

Kristina

Edited December 11, 2008 by Alte Veste Academy

[Jennefer@SSA]

For those who haven't ever seen them, these links are so much fun to look through. They're for the brick and mortar Ambleside Schools that are in the United States right now. There is one here in Texas, in Fredericksburg, that's not too far from me. I dream of doing one of their trainings one day. We'll see...

 

Thank you very much for all the links!

 

We live south of Houston but my in-laws have a little place in Hunt (right outside Kerrville) that we visit 4 or 5 times a year. If you ever find out about a training in Fredricksburg, maybe we could go together! :)

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

If you ever find out about a training in Fredricksburg, maybe we could go together! :)

 

See this page for dates because this is what I'm talking about.

 

http://amblesideschools.com/training_overview.html

 

The first two 3 day workshops for this school year are already over. I am considering doing one of the workshops in April. The dates for the week long summer programs for 2009 are not yet set. That training seems to be more for classroom teachers though, with the preparation and presentation of lesson plans at the school. Plus, add in the price of hotel for the week vs. the first three day training and I don't know if I could swing it and actually pay for our school materials for the next school year. :001_huh:

 

It's pricey but I bet it would be totally worth it. My husband is in the Army so my attendance would be contingent on him having leave approved when I need it...and his bravery. I joke that he is brave enough to fly over Baghdad taking fire every day but I'm not sure he's brave enough to be alone with our three young kids for a week. He agrees. :lol:

 

I'm insisting on three days alone to attend the THSC Convention & Conference in The Woodlands next year (Aug 6-8) though so we'll have to do some hardcore training before then. :) (I joke! I've always said that he does every bit of parenting I do except nurse them when they're babies and it's true. I'm very lucky.)

 

OK, getting off topic now...

 

Kristina

Edited December 11, 2008 by Alte Veste Academy

[Tami]

Here's what I am wondering...to what extent do you need to adhere to CM philosophies to get the maximum (or even a significant) benefit? I would love for some CM "purists" to chime in here if any are reading. I still have much to learn so my ignorance may be showing here. I have just started reading the first chapter in Vol. 1 of Miss Mason's works today.

 

A couple things. First, if someone asked you about how to switch from their unschooling methods to TWTM, what would you tell them to do first? Would you point them to Spelling Workout, History Odyssey, and Abeka Language, and a bunch of Classical-friendly curriculum providers, or would you have them read TWTM first? Simply reading TWTM would give them the "why's" of the method, as well as the "what's." Reading TWTM first would save them a whole lot of time in the end, imo. Similarly, it will save time and energy to simply read Volume 1, rather than researching a myriad of CM reinterpretations and curriculum providers.

 

Secondly, if the unschooler in the first example I used wanted to switch for the specific reason that her child was testing abysmally, complaining all the time, and she did not feel he was learning much with the unschooling method, what would you tell her? If she keeps 50% unschooling and 50% TWTM for the year, and the test scores are still abysmal, how can she judge whether TWTM is working or not? THere are too many variables to be able to assess that.

 

If you want to train attention and habits, the CM method works together as a mosaic to do that. I don't usually recommend that people go 100% anything, unless it is for a specific reason such as yours. In your case, training yourself with volume 1 and going full board CM in January will give you a good idea in about a month or two of whether the CM method will work for your son. As time goes on, bring on the modifications -- we all do!

 

In the beginning, the habit training and focus on attentiveness will be achieved through short lessons, delaying certain subjects, having an active outdoor life, doing handicrafts, choosing only the best literature, and making masterly inactivity a daily habit. Volume 1 will lay out exactly how to do this, and it is really the easiest way to tell if CM is for you.

 

I wouldn't waste too much time on CM curriculum providers and reinterpretations. The research time could be endless. :willy_nilly: CM is not a curriculum - you will likely be able to use most of what you have and your library. Cathy Levison's books would be the exception, as they will help you apply what you learn in Volume 1 quickly.

 

I wish you success and wisdom!

[Kimber]

From the beginning we followed a combination of CM and TWTM. But I never realized how much we were like CM until we joined co-op and the classes weren't CM friendly. (It's a new co-op and we're defining our methods. The co-op overall is becoming more and more classical in method, but some of the curriculum choices were not.)

 

I have learned that non-CM methods eat up time and make following Ms. Mason's methods almost impossible. The worksheets, while often good, require so much time. And the more time you spend on more popular methods, the less time that is available for narration, nature study, picture study, free time, and etc...

 

I'm really pleased though because our co-op has also acknowledged this fact and is changing some things mid year and even more things next year.

 

So my suggestion would be to also start purging anything that eats up your time, even though they may seem rigorous and beneficial. For example my daughter was spending about 4 hours per week on work sheets studying spelling, vocabulary, and comprehension questions. These were for a literature class. A better use of that time would have included written narrations and Socratic discussions, with more time being spent on Latin for vocabulary.

 

The worksheets seemed rigorous but they really didn't do anything as far as teaching her how to think or write. ETA--She does know how to think;-), but those methods didn't focus on ideas very much, if at all.

 

 

Kimberly

Edited December 11, 2008 by Kimber

[Tami]

However, it's important to note that anything available as CM curriculum these days is an interpretation. Even Ambleside Online's curriculum is a best guess as to what would be chosen by CM if she were alive today. No one can know for sure.

 

Actually, we do know for sure -- there are PNEU programmes and schedules that show exactly what her curriculum was. Now, as a modern, forward thinking woman, CM would no doubt use the best of TODAY'S materials, as well as yesterday's classics - she would not allow her curriculum to become stagnant or dusty. I am not one who believes in copying CM's programmes as far as specific book titles, but we can see the high literary standards and time schedules for subjects.

 

I apologize if I am misunderstanding your statement here.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

:)

Actually, we do know for sure -- there are PNEU programmes and schedules that show exactly what her curriculum was. Now, as a modern, forward thinking woman, CM would no doubt use the best of TODAY'S materials, as well as yesterday's classics - she would not allow her curriculum to become stagnant or dusty. I am not one who believes in copying CM's programmes as far as specific book titles, but we can see the high literary standards and time schedules for subjects.

 

I apologize if I am misunderstanding your statement here.

 

:lol:

 

Yes, a misunderstanding or else I didn't phrase it very well because I agree with the rest of what you wrote 100%.

 

We do know what her schedules were. (In fact, I have the majority of them printed out in my CM reference folder.) My point was that we don't know what they would be today. And you are exactly right that she would not let her curriculum become stagnant and dusty. In fact, that's why I love the When Children Love to Learn book so much. Here is an excerpt from my Amazon review:

 

From page 30: "People like Charlotte Mason are rare and vital. They contribute both stability and continuity as they maintain the clear infrastructure of truth in their work; yet life bubbles up in them with freshness. Their response to actual life and persons creates a relevance and newness to their work without sacrificing the roots. This approach contrasts with a more usual trend toward a deadening legalism that squeezes out new ideas. She pointed out the limitations of a set curriculum plan as well as its value. Every year new books are published, and they need to be considered."

 

From page 37: "The schools and classes that used the old PNEU programs used to await the yearly program with interest and enthusiasm. Old favorites and classic books from our heritage are included from year to year. But then a Baden-Powell writes a scouting book, and that opens new avenues. A new book on planets, engines, or medieval castles arrives and is chosen."

 

WOW! Finally, freedom from the guilt of thinking that mixing up the classics with some new books is not only acceptable but what CM did. Finally, I can stop looking for the "perfect" CM curriculum and give myself more credit and permission to create a CM style curriculum that is perfect for my children. The fact is, from those using the actual books that she used in her time to those using a combination of those classics and some newer material, I doubt anyone is using the exact combination of materials that she would be using if she were alive today. Her curriculum was living, just like the books she chose, and no one can presume to know what specific choices she would make if alive today.

 

The greatest point I take from this book is that a Charlotte Mason education is not about exact book titles. It is about a specific way of viewing children and education mixed in with some phenomenal and proven methods of learning. Surely, it is about saying no to twaddle and yes to classics and well-written living books. However, after subscribing to many CM Yahoo groups and perusing every CM web site available, this book was a breath of fresh air, inspiring me to realize that I can have a CM homeschool while making my own choices about particular books. I won't accept anything dumbed-down but I will keep current without feeling like I'm getting it wrong. The funny thing is that in looking through all my other CM books again after reading this one, I see that the same point was made in all--that a CM education isn't just about specific books. However, in this book it is a major point, where in the others it was minor enough for me to have glanced right over it without really stopping to ponder that reality.

 

The foundation that CM provides is spot on and her techniques will never age. History and science, however, do age. History titles, in particular, offer a challenge when we consider the extremely negative stereotypes of certain ethnic groups that are the norm in older literature. Science and technology have made leaps and bounds since CM's day and education needs to keep in step with those changes.

 

Here's the link to the review if you are interested in reading it all.

 

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1581342594/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

It's this one: "The missing link for Charlotte Mason lovers who live in the present."

 

So, yes, you're right and I agree with you. And by the way your blog is fantastic! So many wonderful resources! Thanks for making them available to the masses. :)

 

Kristina

 

 

Edited December 11, 2008 by Alte Veste Academy

[Guest]

Wow! Thank you all for your contribution to this thread and to the OP for starting it! A special thanks to Tami and Kristina (by the way I really enjoyed reading your review on Amazon) for all your input! Very informative! I am only now starting to read up on the CM approach and all the info here has been very useful. I have saved this thread in my favorites :).

[Jennefer@SSA]

A couple things. First, if someone asked you about how to switch from their unschooling methods to TWTM, what would you tell them to do first? Would you point them to Spelling Workout, History Odyssey, and Abeka Language, and a bunch of Classical-friendly curriculum providers, or would you have them read TWTM first? Simply reading TWTM would give them the "why's" of the method, as well as the "what's." Reading TWTM first would save them a whole lot of time in the end, imo. Similarly, it will save time and energy to simply read Volume 1, rather than researching a myriad of CM reinterpretations and curriculum providers.

 

Secondly, if the unschooler in the first example I used wanted to switch for the specific reason that her child was testing abysmally, complaining all the time, and she did not feel he was learning much with the unschooling method, what would you tell her? If she keeps 50% unschooling and 50% TWTM for the year, and the test scores are still abysmal, how can she judge whether TWTM is working or not? THere are too many variables to be able to assess that.

 

If you want to train attention and habits, the CM method works together as a mosaic to do that. I don't usually recommend that people go 100% anything, unless it is for a specific reason such as yours. In your case, training yourself with volume 1 and going full board CM in January will give you a good idea in about a month or two of whether the CM method will work for your son. As time goes on, bring on the modifications -- we all do!

 

In the beginning, the habit training and focus on attentiveness will be achieved through short lessons, delaying certain subjects, having an active outdoor life, doing handicrafts, choosing only the best literature, and making masterly inactivity a daily habit. Volume 1 will lay out exactly how to do this, and it is really the easiest way to tell if CM is for you.

 

I wouldn't waste too much time on CM curriculum providers and reinterpretations. The research time could be endless. :willy_nilly: CM is not a curriculum - you will likely be able to use most of what you have and your library. Cathy Levison's books would be the exception, as they will help you apply what you learn in Volume 1 quickly.

 

I wish you success and wisdom!

 

Tami!

 

Thank you again for your insight. I did print off Vol. 1 and have started reading. Coming from my background as a public school teacher for 7 years and then a WTM follower (to the letter almost!) I am seeing right away how unique Miss Mason's theories are. I find myself highlighting more than not! :D Also, I've already realized that in my evolution as a person...TWTM aligns more with my head in it's logical approach but CM is aligning more with my heart and the journey I have been on in the past few years.

 

I just wanted to take the time to say thank you very much for your time on this thread. I will finish Vol. 1 this weekend hopefully and I now have Cathy Levison's books to follow up with. I think we will take the next 3 weeks off school to "deschool" like you mentioned as well. I need the time to read and process...not to mention wrap Christmas presents! ;)

 

Thanks again!

[denhu4]

http://higherupandfurtherin.blogspot.com/

[skylark]

I would encourage you to go to Ambleside Online, it has a world of information about CM and so many resources. It has so much you'll find you don't have enough time to read it all!!