References - when to ask for them, who to ask???

[mlktwins]

My guys are finishing 10th grade.  I'm curious when and how you ask for references for college apps?

I have not asked for any yet, but we know we will ask a teacher that has taught them for 2 local Honors classes (9th and 10th) and will teach their AP class next year for 11th.  Unless she decides to teach American History for 12th, I don't think we will have her for 12th grade.  I am thinking DE for American History for 12th.

We also plan to ask their local Spanish teacher and they will finish 12th grade with Spanish 1, Spanish 2 Honors, Spanish 3 Honors, and Spanish 4 Honors all from the same teacher.

We missed year round swim this year (due to Covid), but prior to that, we were planning to ask their swim coach for a recommendation.  I talked to him last week, before signing them up for this next school year, and he was happy to have them back despite missing a year.  He remembered their commitment to the sport and team and that they didn't miss a practice unless they were sick.  They were the 2 kids he chose for his Coaches Award in 9th grade.  And...he is very articulate so we are hoping to have him write one at some point.

And...finally, we are hoping for one from their volunteer position at the local library.  They volunteered in person in 8th and 9th, volunteered on-line for 10th (and he asked them if they wanted to continue through the summer), and they are planning to volunteer again in 11th.  Before Covid, I was hoping they might get part time jobs there, but not sure about that at this point.  Anyway, they are well liked there so thinking that is an option.

Also, I know people writing recommendations "shouldn't" be paid, but I know people do gift cards and things afterwards.  How does that work?

Totally new to this and only going through it one time with twins, so any advice is appreciated :-).  And...while this makes them sound like such good boys all the time, my MIL used to call them Street Angels and House Devils -- LOL.  They are so good for everyone else 😁!

 

 

[Kassia]

Typically, we didn't ask for recommendations until spring of junior year.  I think my kids just asked if the person would be willing to write a recommendation for them at that time and then sent the needed information when the time came if the person agreed (and they always did).  

I think your choices for recommenders are excellent!  Instructors who know the student for many years and are still recent.  Those are perfect.

I know many people give a small thank you gift, but my kids always just wrote thank yous and also updated the recommenders on college acceptances, scholarships, jobs, etc. - whatever the recommender wrote for.  

Good luck!  

 

[Farrar]

Another vote that spring of junior year is the typical time. My college bound junior has already asked two teachers he had at various points this year. The typical thing is that colleges like junior year teachers because they'll be the ones with the most recent knowledge of the student... but that's flexible. Many schools specify that it should be a core academic teacher. I think your choices sound good, but also, for students interested in particular areas, it's usually better that it be a teacher in that area. Of course, they often know that's not always possible for homeschoolers.

As for a small thank you after the recommendation, that's not a big deal.

[fourisenough]

Sounds like you’re on the right track. My DD, a rising senior, just asked the following for LOR:

1) Math teacher she had for Alg 1, Alg 2 , and AP Stats

2) English teacher she had for AP Lang & AP Lit and will have worked for as a TA for 2 years

3) Director of Faculty & Curriculum at her pre-professional ballet school who has been her teacher for the last two years

Gifts to letter writers feel...a little unethical to me, but DD will definitely write thank-you letters.

[Clemsondana]

Having written recommendations for several students over the years, i don't recommend asking for them until you have filled out the applications and know exactly what you will need.  Some colleges have specific recommendation forms, for instance.  I really don't like giving students a generic reference that they could then read - back in the old days teachers gave them to you in envelopes that were signed across the seal, and there isn't a good way to do that with digital files (which is what most students need).  My preference is for students to send the request along with the link or email address at the college or scholarship agency that I should send it to.  With some recommndations, the student asks if they can use me as a reference but then the school contacts me with a link to use for whatever they want.  A generic letter has typically been almost unusable because the forms ask a series of specific questions.

My one generic tip for recommendations is that, if given a choice between a school-specific site and the common app, you might consider the school-specific one.  The common app asks recommenders to rate the student on a variety of metrics, and for each they specify if they are in the top 50%, 25%, 10%, 5%, 1%, etc of your students.  The problem is that, unless you have had a ton of students who follow a normal distrubution, it's hard to give an accurate represntation.  In 10 years of teaching homeschoolers, I've had maybe 250 students.  So...at most 3 students can be top 1%.  But, locally my class is considered to be a 'gets you ready for college' class, so I get a lot of good, academic, college-bound students.  The top 30% of my students (at least...some years it's higher) will have absolutely no problems in college.  My absolute favorite recommendation form was from a small private school.  It asked questions like 'Will this student be able to succeed in college?' and asked for examples.  I loved that I could give a good reference with specific examples for a highly capable student who would have ranked 5th out of 20, average-wise, because they were in a very strong class where 6/20 students had grades above 95% (there were also Cs and Fs, lest you think I just hand out As!).  

Edited to add:  it's no problem to ask a general 'Would you be willing to be a reference for me at some point in the future?' question at any point after a student has taken a high school class.  But, depending on exactly what a student's plans are, the recommender may never write a traditional recommendation letter, so there's not much to be done until the student knows exactly what they need.  

Edited May 18, 2021 by Clemsondana

[Farrar]

I think doing the general "Would you be willing...?" request is good during the end of junior year. Kids need to know who said yes so they can even evaluate the applications and choose who they'll need. And it's nice to give teachers a heads up. 

[Roadrunner]

So there is no recommendation letter? But a form to fill out instead? Wow. 

[Kassia]

43 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

So there is no recommendation letter? But a form to fill out instead? Wow. 

My daughter had one for a summer research program that was just multiple choice!  

[Farrar]

It really depends. Some are more open ended. But I also did one for a prestigious program for a student recently that was almost all multiple choice.

[Clemsondana]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

So there is no recommendation letter? But a form to fill out instead? Wow. 

I've done recommendations for summer programs, Governor's School, college applications, and scholarships.  I've done multiple choice, answered a series of questions with short answers, done some 'what percentile is this student in?' ones with a bunch of questions, and done the common app which is a bunch of the percentile questions and then several questions that, honestly, don't seem to be as good as the questions on some of the individual school applications - they allow a large number of words, but ask questions that don't require much to answer and you have to stretch to work in the interesting information that you want to include.  Letters don't make up the majority of what I've been asked to do, although there have been some.  And, of course, some colleges don't require letters at all, so plenty of good students have gone to college without needing anything.  

[Lori D.]

11 hours ago, mlktwins said:

...I know people writing recommendations "shouldn't" be paid, but I know people do gift cards and things afterwards.  How does that work? ...

I have provided numerous references for a variety of reasons for many of my students, and have never received a thank you note or gift card or other acknowledgement, as that is not needed or traditional. I *would* recommend sending an email to the recommender to let them know that the recommendation was received, and you could also add a few lines of personal thanks at that time.

(Also, it's very nice to email again after the dust settles to let the recommender know what the final outcome was, and to thank them for their time and effort. At least for me, that is thanks enough -- getting to hear how they did. 😄 )

ETA
re: multiple choice recommendations -- interesting: I've never done multiple choice, only letters and have twice been a CSS recommender for different students. Students have asked me for letters of recommendation for jobs, special programs/internships, scholarships, an Eagle Scout recommendation, and for college admissions.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Lori D.

[Momto6inIN]

We sent thank you notes/emails, but no gifts. That would have felt weird to me.

We ask if they'd be willing around spring/summer of junior year, then give specifics when we get into the nitty gritty of the apps in fall of senior year. Most of the time no one has started on them til we bug them two or three or ten more times with deadlines so the spring is really more of a heads up than an actual request 😉

[Clemsondana]

I didn't answer the part about gifts or notes - most students don't do anything other than let me know that their application was complete (my part got there).  My favorite is when they let me know where they wound up - 'Thanks so much - I got the internship!' or 'Thanks for the recommendation - I got in to my first choice school!'.  Sometimes I get a thank you note or small gift, but that is mostly from students at our co-op where that is part of the culture.  Most students don't give teacher gifts, but at the end of each semester there are a handful who write a note or give a small gift (a few brownies, a $5-10 gift card, a small potted plant or candle) so it doesn't seem weird to get that sort of gift from a former student for whom you did a favor.  But, it's not expected.

As an aside about students giving gifts - I had a former student whose family gave a pint of homemade apple butter to teachers.  I had 2 students from this family, and after a few years of gifts my husband was bummed when they ran out of kids!  Another gave a small basil plant, and now my family grows several because they have come to like homemade pesto.  I love it when my students teach my kids to like new things!  

 

[NittanyJen]

On 5/18/2021 at 8:51 AM, mlktwins said:

My guys are finishing 10th grade.  I'm curious when and how you ask for references for college apps?

I have not asked for any yet, but we know we will ask a teacher that has taught them for 2 local Honors classes (9th and 10th) and will teach their AP class next year for 11th.  Unless she decides to teach American History for 12th, I don't think we will have her for 12th grade.  I am thinking DE for American History for 12th.

We also plan to ask their local Spanish teacher and they will finish 12th grade with Spanish 1, Spanish 2 Honors, Spanish 3 Honors, and Spanish 4 Honors all from the same teacher.

We missed year round swim this year (due to Covid), but prior to that, we were planning to ask their swim coach for a recommendation.  I talked to him last week, before signing them up for this next school year, and he was happy to have them back despite missing a year.  He remembered their commitment to the sport and team and that they didn't miss a practice unless they were sick.  They were the 2 kids he chose for his Coaches Award in 9th grade.  And...he is very articulate so we are hoping to have him write one at some point.

And...finally, we are hoping for one from their volunteer position at the local library.  They volunteered in person in 8th and 9th, volunteered on-line for 10th (and he asked them if they wanted to continue through the summer), and they are planning to volunteer again in 11th.  Before Covid, I was hoping they might get part time jobs there, but not sure about that at this point.  Anyway, they are well liked there so thinking that is an option.

Also, I know people writing recommendations "shouldn't" be paid, but I know people do gift cards and things afterwards.  How does that work?

Totally new to this and only going through it one time with twins, so any advice is appreciated :-).  And...while this makes them sound like such good boys all the time, my MIL used to call them Street Angels and House Devils -- LOL.  They are so good for everyone else 😁!

 

 

We asked for recommendations the summer before the senior year, because in late summer of senior year the college applications begin. Most of the places we applied really only wanted one or two LOR’s, so we picked someone who knew my son well in the area he wanted to study, and someone else who could add more ‘dimension’ to him in some fashion— someone who knew him beyond what the first reviewer was likely to say. 

As someone who has written LOR’s for kids before, I would politely refuse a gift for writing one; to me it would feel very inappropriate. I write a LOR that is honest and helpful, not one that is compensated. As a parent, I understand that a student and/or parent might feel gratitude toward me for writing one, and it is very thoughtful of you to consider a thank-you, but as a teacher/mentor I am simply happy to do it— I enjoy helping a student reach that next goal in their journey. If anything, it’s an honor to be asked to be a part of that. In that vein, a simple thank-you note is sufficient.

Congratulations on raising such fine young men. They sound like a delight to have around.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by NittanyJen

[kokotg]

So for people who ask Junior year--you're saying you just ask to give them a head's up and make sure you have someone, and then come back to them when applications open up in the late summer/fall to say, "okay now I need that letter you said you'd do?" My oldest didn't ask for any until fall of senior year, but my 11th grader just finished a couple of online courses and should probably ask now before the teachers forget who he was, yes? He'll be applying as a music major and has two music teachers who know him very well and should be able to write great letters, but he should get at least one academic one, too. The best person for that is probably his...music theory teacher. Well, at least they'll know he's dedicated to music!

[kokotg]

OR can people start loading recommendations before the common app officially opens in August? Apparently students can start filling some parts of it out earlier--recommendations, too?

[Lori D.]

27 minutes ago, kokotg said:

So for people who ask Junior year--you're saying you just ask to give them a head's up and make sure you have someone, and then come back to them when applications open up in the late summer/fall to say, "okay now I need that letter you said you'd do?" My oldest didn't ask for any until fall of senior year, but my 11th grader just finished a couple of online courses and should probably ask now before the teachers forget who he was, yes? He'll be applying as a music major and has two music teachers who know him very well and should be able to write great letters, but he should get at least one academic one, too. The best person for that is probably his...music theory teacher. Well, at least they'll know he's dedicated to music!

I don't know how other people prefer to write their LoR, but for me, I prefer to get the request, with a copy of the instructions or info about what the program / job / scholarship is about, so that I know what the person reading the letter is looking for. That way I can be sure to include the key words and specific examples of when the student showed that skill or trait.

All that to say, getting asked to write the LoR about 2-3 weeks before it's due is optimal for ME. And if I don't sit down and do it within the first day or two, I do forget. So if a week goes by, I really appreciate a gentle email reminder from the student -- "Hey, thanks for being willing to do this; it's due by _________, and I noticed on the Common App website your letter hasn't been uploaded yet." 😉 

Also, I have had students need a letter in 24 hours, because they just discovered a program and the deadline to apply is the next day. And once, I had 2 HOURS to get a LoR written and emailed in to meet the midnight deadline! 😵 Good thing I was good friends with the family 😉 -- AND I happened to still be on the computer and happened to check email! In their defense, they had been juggling a ton of things for applying to college with this student (their oldest), so all of this was new to them, and mom AND daughter just totally missed the one sentence buried way down in the list of requirements and instructions about needing the LoR...   Good thing I keep all of my LoR on my computer, and can just whip out an older one and use it as a template for the student. 😉

[Farrar]

On 5/20/2021 at 11:23 AM, kokotg said:

OR can people start loading recommendations before the common app officially opens in August? Apparently students can start filling some parts of it out earlier--recommendations, too?

Students start working on things for the app like writing essays and planning activities and so forth and sometimes students have dummy accounts and so forth to check out the Common App... but before it opens in August, I don't think there's any way to do anything on it. You definitely can't invite your recommenders.

[Farrar]

To add... I would say you ask at the end of junior year. Hey, teacher, I loved this class, thank you so much for this and this. I'm applying to college in the fall. Would you consider being one of my recommenders? Then, in the early fall of senior year, when applications open up. Hey, teacher, just a reminder, you know me from this and that and you said you'd be willing to be one of my recommenders. I'm sending you my resume and transcript so you can see and overview of other things I've done. Is there anything else you need from me?