What if you add to an online class? (Transcript / Course Description)

[TheAttachedMama]

Quick question concerning an "English" class and how to put it on my son's transcript.  (I know I am probably over thinking things.).

Has anyone ever added to an online class?  And if so, how do you reflect this on a transcript?  My son is currently signed up to take Cindy Lange's Literature and Composition for Underclassmen so this would be his "Language Arts" credit for the year.   (Book List:  Rhetorical Devices: A Handbook and Activities for Student Writers ( McGuigan, Grudzina, Moliken); Animal Farm (George Orwell); I Heard the Owl Call My Name (Margaret Craven); Lilies of the Field (William Edmund Barrett); Beowulf (trans. J. R. R. Tolkien); Macbeth (Shakespeare), Oxford School Edition; Poetry & Speeches (provided by instructor).)

Let's say that I would like for him to read (in addition) a few other books this year that tie into the broad "Language Arts" category.   For example, I would love for him to read "Elements of Style" and a few of the more fun book by Jay Heinrichs on rhetoric.   And maybe a few select literature books that tie into history.  

What is the *best* way to reflect this on the transcript?    Or should I just list these books on a "reading list" for high school?

 

[MamaSprout]

You could do it either way.

In my school profile I explain that with the exception of Blue Tent and DE, I am determine the scope of the course and assign the final grade. This does include some other instructors and online providers. In that case, you just roll it into one class with description, grade, etc. We did this with a foreign language class that never really issued dd a grade and some arts classes that I beefed up a little.

The other option is just to keep a document of all of this outside stuff. If you feel that the reading and output eventually equal another course (Rhetoric?), then assign a credit for it. I did that with a history course. It was spread out over a year- 14 months and included a lot of reading, a couple of short Outschool courses and a dropped local course that dd had put a lot of work into. Overall, it was clearly cohesive enough to equal a Contemporary World History course.

Edited February 23, 2021 by MamaSprout

[regentrude]

I would not reflect this in the transcript at all. Transcript would say "English" or whatever course name you invent, and the grade. Transcript does not list books and resources.
The course description can list the resources you used: the online class and whatever other reading you assign. Most likely nobody is going to read it.

ETA: Also: not everything a student does in highschool has to show up on the college application. You can just... READ the book and not "list" it anywhere.

Edited February 23, 2021 by regentrude

[2_girls_mommy]

Yes, if you have to give a course description you just write that English 4 or whichever included xyz course and these texts and assignments at home and indicate that the final grade was assigned by you.  

I wrote detailed course descriptions for my dd applying to selective schools.  It wasn't even required for the school she eventually went to, and I probably won't have to include them for next dd.  I had some courses where dd got the grade completely from the outsourced class like when she took concurrent enrollment courses or an online math class.  The rest of her courses that may have issued grades, were only part of my curriculum and were not her full coursework, and I indicated that in the course descriptions.  Mainly, I started each description with where the grade came from.  This was a course taken from an online provider, xyz, and the grade given is the grade issued by them.  Then, here is the syllabus they provided.  If it was a class of mine that included another course, I said, this was a class that included an online course, these books, these assignments, and the final grade on transcript was issued by our homeschool. 

[teachermom2834]

I just called what my kids took "English 9" or "English 10" and rolled comp and lit and whatever other English we did into that. It's one reason why I went with the generic "English 10" instead of a more detailed course title. My ds took composition and lit classes at MPOA that didn't line up exactly into a theme and then I would give him random books to read or he might take a light co-op course. I did not end up doing course descriptions for him but if I did I would have rolled all that in and detailed it in the course descriptions. 

[TheAttachedMama]

9 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I just called what my kids took "English 9" or "English 10" and rolled comp and lit and whatever other English we did into that. It's one reason why I went with the generic "English 10" instead of a more detailed course title. My ds took composition and lit classes at MPOA that didn't line up exactly into a theme and then I would give him random books to read or he might take a light co-op course. I did not end up doing course descriptions for him but if I did I would have rolled all that in and detailed it in the course descriptions. 

Thanks!   So, how did you determine grade?  If they took two online classes, one for lit and one for comp., did you average the two grades and then give some percentage points for reading the extra books?

[TheAttachedMama]

16 hours ago, regentrude said:

I would not reflect this in the transcript at all. Transcript would say "English" or whatever course name you invent, and the grade. Transcript does not list books and resources.
The course description can list the resources you used: the online class and whatever other reading you assign. Most likely nobody is going to read it.

ETA: Also: not everything a student does in highschool has to show up on the college application. You can just... READ the book and not "list" it anywhere.

I don't think my question is clear.   Let me try to clarify what I am asking...

1) Can you change the name of an online class on the transcript if the class title is not very descriptive or accurate?  Especially if you are adding a lot to the class at home?   And how does that work if colleges request transcripts from these providers?   Am I muddying the water too much?

2) If you add a lot of additional reading (or "output" or "lab time" or writing or whatever) to an online class, what is the clearest way to reflect this on a transcript?   a) Leave it off...not everything you do has to show up on the college application.  Chalk it up to providing a good education.   b) List it as its own class.   Maybe as an elective.  And issue however many credits the time spent dictates.  Ex. Rhetoric I, credits 0.25.  Then list Rhetoric book and extra writing or public speeches.   c) Just lump it all into the English credit.   (But don't change the grade issued by the online provider), or d) something else?

 

Here are some other examples to further clarify wha I am asking:

Example:  I sign my 9th grader up for the Schole American Government online class.  it is a year long class and it contains readings from both government and history, but that is not reflected in the online provider's course title.   

FYI...books used in class

• Plato’s Republic
• John Locke’s Second Treatise on Civil Government
• A Short History of the United States (excerpts), Remini
• Common Sense, Paine
• The Declaration of Independence
• The U.S. Constitution
• Alexis De Tocqueville’s Democracy in America
• The Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers
• Gettysburg Address, Lincoln
• Select U.S. Supreme Court decisions
• Robert Remini’s A Short History of the United States

And let's say that I need to list American History on my transcript.  (Ex. It is required by a college or my state).   So I add in additional American History reading in my student's day.    What is the best way to reflect this on the transcript?   Do I change this year long course title on my transcript to "American History and Government, 1 credit".   Then list the online class as 'a resource' and then list my American additional history reading to the course description page (I realize no one is likely to read this)?   Do I just keep this online class as "American Government" as a credit and then issue a separate credit for my extra American History textbook?   (Ex. American Government, 1 credit.  American History, 0.5 credits... or another whole credit depending on hours worked.)

 

[teachermom2834]

4 minutes ago, TheAttachedMama said:

Thanks!   So, how did you determine grade?  If they took two online classes, one for lit and one for comp., did you average the two grades and then give some percentage points for reading the extra books?

He always had an A in any of these online classes that we combined so I just gave him an A for the whole thing 🙂 If I was trying to use a number grade I guess I would have figured a system to be more precise (but I probably would have still eyeballed it and given a grade that seemed appropriate).

But I’m just throwing my opinion out there. My kids did not apply to super competitive colleges and their situations with grades and test scores were very straight forward. I kept the transcripts simple and that suited our purposes. I also don’t overthink grades too much. I have seen what passes for honors coursework and high grades in our local schools and I don’t fret that I am going too easy on my kids. I graded my oldest child more harshly and then saw that just about every average kid I knew graduating from the local schools had a 4.0 and a very low ACT score. If my child does multiple courses and I add to it for one simple credit, it is probably safe to expect he is working to an A standard or I would require rewrites and extra credit to get him there. 
 

Off the main topic but my thinking on grades- my current senior has a 4.0 and has earned every point of it. He is a fantastic student with high test scores to back it up. My older kids had a smattering of Bs on their transcripts. They went on to take over 30 hours each of de at a local university and never scored below an A. When they applied to colleges, they applied places where a weighted GPA went into the calculation for automatic scholarships. Some of the schools required a 4.0 or 3.8 to be considered. If my dc did not have those weighted de grades to bring their GPAs up to the minimum they would not have been able to get scholarships where they went even thought their test scores got them there.

So, while I am not advocating falsifying grades in any way, I do try to encourage parents giving homeschool grades not to be overly harsh on grading. It puts them out of step with most public school students who have copious extra credit opportunities and it is possible to grade them out of a scholarship they would otherwise qualify for. That’s just my BTDT advice on grading. I don’t want my 32 ACT kid to miss a scholarship because of an A- I gave him in theology freshman year. That scenario could have played out here and it would have been a mistake on my end. 

[MamaSprout]

10 minutes ago, TheAttachedMama said:

 

And let's say that I need to list American History on my transcript.  (Ex. It is required by a college or my state).   So I add in additional American History reading in my student's day.    What is the best way to reflect this on the transcript?   Do I change this year long course title on my transcript to "American History and Government, 1 credit".   

 

Yes.  ETA Most US Government courses end up covering a lot of the first half of American History by default. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by MamaSprout

[TheAttachedMama]

2 minutes ago, MamaSprout said:

Yes. 

And that won't cause confusion?   Evidently, some selective colleges are requesting transcripts from outside classes from homeschoolers.   So how would that work for this hybrid class (part online, part mommy-made)?   I can just change the title to anything I want?   What factors do I want to consider before changing an online class title (to either clarify what it is or reflect additions I make to it)?  

My thinking on this subject is VERY jumbled in my head, and that is probably coming through in my questioning.  lol. Thank you  for bearing with me.  I am used to being able to do whatever I want in my homeschool!   And I know I still *can* do whatever I want...I just want to make sure I understand how to translate my unique homeschool into a language colleges will understand.   

[MamaSprout]

56 minutes ago, TheAttachedMama said:

And that won't cause confusion?   Evidently, some selective colleges are requesting transcripts from outside classes from homeschoolers.   So how would that work for this hybrid class (part online, part mommy-made)?   I can just change the title to anything I want?   What factors do I want to consider before changing an online class title (to either clarify what it is or reflect additions I make to it)?  

My thinking on this subject is VERY jumbled in my head, and that is probably coming through in my questioning.  lol. Thank you  for bearing with me.  I am used to being able to do whatever I want in my homeschool!   And I know I still *can* do whatever I want...I just want to make sure I understand how to translate my unique homeschool into a language colleges will understand.   

I lost a long reply and am out of time this morning.

Short answer: What universities are asking for transcripts from online providers?

If so, where is the line?

I have a ceramics course from the local parks department on my transcript (taught by an MFA that also teaches part time at local universities). I added an essay and have it listed as "Ceramics .25 credit". Will college admins want a transcript from the parks department? No.

How is this different? Schole isn't an online school that your dc is enrolled in as a diploma-seeking student. It is a resource you are using in your homeschool. Lots of public and private schools will occasionally bring in other providers for short coursework (Junior Achievement, for example). This is similar.

DE is completely different. PS is probably different. ETA- I have treated Dd's AP courses the same as I would DE. AP means something specific, and I would not either remix those courses or be surprised if someone wanted to see a transcript from the provider. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by MamaSprout

[stripe]

I have used a short online class as a supplement — for example, last summer, I had one of my kids take a short summer program related to English because I felt English had been too light that year. I just considered that to be an additional unit.

I don’t think there’s a problem with changing class titles if they’re unclear. Lukeion has weird titles, for example — “Muse on the Loose” is perhaps the strangest. I would put this in the course description especially if you were going to have transcripts sent from that organization.

[cintinative]

Thanks for asking this OP. I had a similar issue, and it's interesting to see how people have dealt with it.

[regentrude]

5 hours ago, TheAttachedMama said:

I don't think my question is clear.   Let me try to clarify what I am asking...

1) Can you change the name of an online class on the transcript if the class title is not very descriptive or accurate?  Especially if you are adding a lot to the class at home?   And how does that work if colleges request transcripts from these providers?   Am I muddying the water too much?

2) If you add a lot of additional reading (or "output" or "lab time" or writing or whatever) to an online class, what is the clearest way to reflect this on a transcript?   a) Leave it off...not everything you do has to show up on the college application.  Chalk it up to providing a good education.   b) List it as its own class.   Maybe as an elective.  And issue however many credits the time spent dictates.  Ex. Rhetoric I, credits 0.25.  Then list Rhetoric book and extra writing or public speeches.   c) Just lump it all into the English credit.   (But don't change the grade issued by the online provider), or d) something else?

Here are some other examples to further clarify wha I am asking:

Example:  I sign my 9th grader up for the Schole American Government online class.  it is a year long class and it contains readings from both government and history, but that is not reflected in the online provider's course title.   

..

And let's say that I need to list American History on my transcript.  (Ex. It is required by a college or my state).   So I add in additional American History reading in my student's day.    What is the best way to reflect this on the transcript?   Do I change this year long course title on my transcript to "American History and Government, 1 credit".   Then list the online class as 'a resource' and then list my American additional history reading to the course description page (I realize no one is likely to read this)?   Do I just keep this online class as "American Government" as a credit and then issue a separate credit for my extra American History textbook?   (Ex. American Government, 1 credit.  American History, 0.5 credits... or another whole credit depending on hours worked.)

Colleges will request transcripts from other colleges, public schools, and accredited online schools that are issuing a diploma for their students - but if you use some random online provider as part of your home created course, I highly doubt they'll care. So yes, you can choose whatever title you want, and list the provider/course in your course description.

You can either use the provider's grade and just add your own work requireing  completion, or you can issue your own grade and use the provider's grade as grade for part of the work and come up with your own grade depending on your expectations and rubric. Your school, your rules.

There are no transcript police. You can call your course American Government and History, cover both government and history with whatever resources you choose. Or you can list separate government and history courses and give them appropriate credit. It does not matter how you organize this.

Edited February 24, 2021 by regentrude

[EKS]

If the online class isn't being taken through a credit granting institution (Derek Owens and WTMA are examples of this), you can simply list the class as a resource in the course description as you would a textbook and then also list the additional resources and activities.  On the transcript the class would be listed as a home-based course rather than an outside course.

Another way to do it would be to include everything that was done in the online class in the course description without referencing the fact that it was actually an outside class and then also including the additional resources.

 

[MamaSprout]

Other than the AP courses we did, I did not list a "provider" for anything, just an instructor name.

[TheAttachedMama]

4 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

Other than the AP courses we did, I did not list a "provider" for anything, just an instructor name.

That is interesting.  I have not been listing instructor names in my course descriptions.   Maybe I should be adding that.  🙂

[cintinative]

39 minutes ago, TheAttachedMama said:

That is interesting.  I have not been listing instructor names in my course descriptions.   Maybe I should be adding that.  🙂

I don't have any on mine either. A friend of mine lists the name and their degree.  I am not sure what the convention is for this?

[MamaSprout]

32 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I don't have any on mine either. A friend of mine lists the name and their degree.  I am not sure what the convention is for this?

I do it because we haven't done a lot of outsourcing. When we do, it is often because the teacher is exceptionally qualified or offers something that we can't do at home.