Total newbie, head spinning, help me choose?

[_Iris_]

Hi there!

I am totally new to homeschooling. Just last week I decided to pull my child from 'virtual school' as it was making our entire family miserable so here I am: an overnight homeschooler. I already have math, science, and history covered but I am seeking awesome curriculum for writing and grammar. I'm not planning on teaching reading comprehension or "language arts" in the public school sense as my kid is a voracious reader and I feel like that's enough for this year.  I am actually very excited/nervous about this learning at home adventure but I have spent literal days reading about curriculum and feel like I will never stop if I don't just put my foot down and make a decision.  I'm hoping seasoned homeschool parents can help me with this? Important to know about us: 5th grade kiddo, super bright, avid reader, lover of school. Secular curriculum is very important to me (totally open to religious stories or exploration but nothing that teaches religion as fact). I'm going for fun and light this year -- the world beyond is so heavy and crazy right now, I'd like our home environment to be a haven. I've narrowed it down to the following:

 

Writing & Grammar:

"Voyages in English" -- this looks like a lovely program but is it quite religious? The Loyola Publishing website implies this may be the case. 

"Fix It Grammar" - I delved into the IEW approach and quickly discovered it wasn't my cup of tea. The grammar program looks quite interesting though I can't find sample pages anywhere. Thoughts?

"Wordsmith Apprentice" - this looks like a really fun way to teach writing though I'm worried it may not be very thorough?

"Writing With Skill" - this looks very comprehensive but perhaps a little bit intense. Thoughts?

Any recommendations for grammar programs are most welcome! I haven't found any that really appeal to me. Also open to any suggestions for writing curriculum or general life advice. Apologies if this post seems slightly neurotic -- if that's the case, then it's a proper reflection of my current state of mind 🙂

 

[Ausmumof3]

IEW is great for kids that struggle with creativity as it’s quite scripted.  For kids that already enjoy writing maybe less so.  Writing with Skill is quite intense for a 5th grader I think unless they’re reasonably advanced.  It might be worth seeing if you can have a look at one to see what you think in relation to your specific kid.  My dd is 6th grade and finds it hard.  Writing with Ease is the younger version of the program.  

Brave Writer is another really popular homeschooling program.  

for grammar you could try one of the first language lessons or grammar for the well trained mind.  They are quite in depth at the higher levels.  They do cover the same material every year but with a bit more depth so you can kind of start anywhere and you don’t need to do them all.  I’m not averse to having grammar not be an every year subject unless you really feel your kid needs it.  
 

Another grammar program my kids have quite enjoyed is grammar galaxy.  It’s pretty light but written in a story style.  

[Another Lynn]

Kudos to you - you've really done your homework!  I agree with your descriptions above (of the ones I've tried).  

For grammar, First Language Lessons 4 might be a good choice.  I've used this series a year "behind" (not that it's really behind, imho).  It is scripted and a little repetitive, which is a good thing if your child is new to grammar or diagramming or you're not sure what to expect from an elementary student learning grammar (that last one was me).  But if your child is really bright and wants to cut to the chase quickly or work independently, it might not be the best fit.  You do need both the student book and the teacher's guide if you use this one.

Easy Grammar might be worth looking at if you haven't yet.  There's no diagramming, but otherwise very solid. 

For writing - I spent years hunting a writing curriculum that I could love and never did.  Writing with Skill can be intense - it is a very detailed (maybe tedious???) approach - lots of trees without a view of the whole forest, imho.  How do you feel about just assigning writing across your other subjects.  Maybe assign a report every week or two in either science, history, or about a book your child has read?  Susan Wise Bauer has a talk about writing in the middle school years that could guide you...  https://welltrainedmind.com/p/a-plan-for-teaching-writing-focus-on-the-middle-grades-mp3/?v=7516fd43adaa  It's a $4 download!  

[wendyroo]

You could consider Teaching Writing Through Guided Analysis (which was written by a fellow boardie and used to be called Treasured Conversations if you want to look up old posts about it).  It covers both grammar and writing...and note taking and other skills.

[Ellie]

6 hours ago, _Iris_ said:

Hi there!

I am totally new to homeschooling. Just last week I decided to pull my child from 'virtual school' as it was making our entire family miserable so here I am: an overnight homeschooler. I already have math, science, and history covered but I am seeking awesome curriculum for writing and grammar. I'm not planning on teaching reading comprehension or "language arts" in the public school sense as my kid is a voracious reader and I feel like that's enough for this year.  I am actually very excited/nervous about this learning at home adventure but I have spent literal days reading about curriculum and feel like I will never stop if I don't just put my foot down and make a decision.  I'm hoping seasoned homeschool parents can help me with this? Important to know about us: 5th grade kiddo, super bright, avid reader, lover of school. Secular curriculum is very important to me (totally open to religious stories or exploration but nothing that teaches religion as fact). I'm going for fun and light this year -- the world beyond is so heavy and crazy right now, I'd like our home environment to be a haven. I've narrowed it down to the following:

 

Writing & Grammar:

"Voyages in English" -- this looks like a lovely program but is it quite religious? The Loyola Publishing website implies this may be the case. 

"Fix It Grammar" - I delved into the IEW approach and quickly discovered it wasn't my cup of tea. The grammar program looks quite interesting though I can't find sample pages anywhere. Thoughts?

"Wordsmith Apprentice" - this looks like a really fun way to teach writing though I'm worried it may not be very thorough?

"Writing With Skill" - this looks very comprehensive but perhaps a little bit intense. Thoughts?

Any recommendations for grammar programs are most welcome! I haven't found any that really appeal to me. Also open to any suggestions for writing curriculum or general life advice. Apologies if this post seems slightly neurotic -- if that's the case, then it's a proper reflection of my current state of mind 🙂

 

Wordsmith Apprentice would be fine. If you wanted to do something different next year, you could, but you have to start somewhere, and WA is fine.

We were happy with Easy Grammar.

Loyala Press is Catholic.

[cbollin]

7 hours ago, _Iris_ said:

Hi there!

 

"Fix It Grammar" - I delved into the IEW approach and quickly discovered it wasn't my cup of tea. The grammar program looks quite interesting though I can't find sample pages anywhere. Thoughts?

 🙂

 

 

I used Easy Grammar.  But if samples of Fix It would be helpful, I found these on the IEW site. (clicked each level for either student or teacher version, opened the tab that said samples.  I'm on a desktop so it's easy to see and open. not sure how it looks from other devices. It may not have been easy from your device so here are the links

https://iew.com/sites/default/files/paperbasedcourse/fileattachment/FIX-1-SB_Sample.pdf

https://iew.com/sites/default/files/paperbasedcourse/fileattachment/FIX-2-SB_Sample.pdf

https://iew.com/sites/default/files/paperbasedcourse/fileattachment/FIX-3-SB_Sample.pdf

https://iew.com/sites/default/files/paperbasedcourse/fileattachment/FIX-4-SB_Sample.pdf

and sample of teacher book 5 https://iew.com/sites/default/files/paperbasedcourse/fileattachment/FIX-5_Sample.pdf

and so on.... 

hope that helps on the samples.

 

[Syllieann]

We've been really happy with the combo of writing with skill and fix it grammar.  WWS has lots of teacher help and leaves nothing to chance.  That is perfect for me.  What I love about fix it is the mastery design so things are presented in different contexts over and over and over.  I also like that it includes some vocab.

Voyages in English is secular even though the company is Catholic.  The older Catholic version has been rebranded as Lepanto grammar.

[PeachyDoodle]

WWS is a great curriculum but IMO better if you are committed to homeschooling long-term, as I think you really need all three levels to get the most benefit from it. It's also incredibly intense and even SWB says that most 5th graders aren't ready for it. I did use it in 5th with my gifted oldest, and it went fine but we still went at half-pace. I wouldn't start that early with my younger kiddo, if I use WWS with him.

Welcome to the club! 🙂

Edited September 13, 2020 by PeachyDoodle

[Lori D.]

Welcome! May your first year of homeschooling (vs. school at home) be a wonderful adventure for you all!

Thoughts on the programs you asked about:

Voyages in English (ViE)
This is Grammar AND English subjects in one textbook, which can be a very unified way to approach those Language Arts topics. ViE is a very traditional, school-like approach with several  exercise sets per lesson and many "problems" per exercise. If you go this route, you could reduce the "drill and kill" aspect by having your student just do selected problems that you circle. Similarly for the writing, to avoid overkill, you could just do selected assignments. I don't remember there being much of any religious content in it, but it was probably close to 15 years ago that I looked at it. In looking at the sample pages (here is the 5th grade student book, and here is the 5th grade teacher book), it appears to be completely non-religious.

Fix It Grammar
Grammar only. Fix It is designed to mesh well with IEW, but you can do one without also doing the other. No personal experience with it, so here is the Cathy Duffy review for more info. It looks like they recommend that students of any age start with level 1. Here are (a very few) sample pages of level 1 (click on the "More" link under the thumbnails of the pages, just to the left of the big image of the book): student book; teacher book.

Wordsmith Apprentice
Writing only, although a few of the parts of speech (nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs) are covered in the context of writing. We adored this program. I had 2 very pencil-phobic, writing-hating DSs, and they each really *enjoyed* this program. It is very gentle and flexible -- you can schedule as big or as small of a "bite" per day as works for your student. My DS#2 had mild learning disabilities in spelling, writing, and math, so we took it in tiny bites, and he loved it. Yes, the program is light, so even with DS#2's slower pace, it did not take us a full year to do. BUT, it was so fun, and easy to pick up/put down that we able to stretch it out over a full year by stopping every so often and doing some other sort of writing project for a week -- a paragraph-long report on a topic out of History, Geography, or Science; a book or movie review;  journal/free writing from fun prompts; letter to grandma (bonus: learn how to address an envelope!); etc. Here is the Cathy Duffy review of all 3 books in the program -- the next 2 levels were not as "fun" as the Apprentice book (level 1). Reviews for the future, lol: DS#1 did use level 2 (Wordsmith, for gr. 6-8), which focuses on paragraph writing in the 4 areas of writing (Descriptive, Narrative, Expository, Persuasive). It also is very light. We tried, but dropped level 3 (Wordsmith Craftsman, gr. 9-12) as it was too scattered in approach for us.

Writing With Skill
Writing only. While it says it is for grades 5-8, most students have not developed the abstract thinking and logical thinking skills required for this program until more along grade 7-8. So unless you have an advanced 5th grade writer, I don't recommend starting this series yet. It is very formal and scripted. I got this program to try and adapt it for use with the homeschool writing & lit. co-op classes that I teach, but it was totally NOT my teaching style, and I have to say that this program would have crushed the life out of my DSs who disliked/struggled with writing. I know others on these boards do well with it, so YMMV. Here is the Cathy Duffy review.


other Grammar program ideas
Growing With Grammar -- also has companion Language Art series: Winning with Writing and Soaring with Spelling; workbook-based
Junior Analytical Grammar -- workbook-based; Cathy Duffy review (for both Jr. AG, and the older student AG)
Winston Basic -- parts of speech; parts of a sentence; hands-on-based; Cathy Duffy review
Six Weeks to Understanding Grammar (Joyce Herzog) -- more of a great parent/teacher resource, but she makes grammar so simple and straightforward that it gives you tools for teaching grammar/answering questions for your student about grammar

other Writing program ideas
Winning with Writing -- also has companion Language Art series: Growing With Grammar and Soaring with Spelling; workbook-based
Writing and Rhetoric -- Cathy Duffy review
Writeshop -- Cathy Duffy review

combined Grammar and Writing program idea
Treasured Conversations (now called Teaching Writing Through Guided Analysis) -- for gr. 3-5, so it would start super-gently for your 5th grader -- but that would give you a solid foundation -- but definitely moves into writing paragraphs at a 5th grade level later in the program; this program was written/published by an extremely experienced homeschooler on these boards (8FillTheHeart)

Edited September 13, 2020 by Lori D.

[_Iris_]

 Yay! Thanks, everyone, for all of this wonderful information! I've found that homeschoolers are so supportive and open with their expertise which is really very lovely. I am grateful!

I'd never heard of Brave Writer -- it looks neat! I love the idea of revisiting the books we treasure (especially Where the Mountain Meets the Moon and The Vanderbeekers!) which an eye towards grammar and literary analysis. That said, while I get that part of the program -- the "Arrow" -- I feel like I can't get a really good grasp of the writing part of the curriculum entails, even after reading through the website and the free samples. Does anyone have experience with this program?

And yes, a couple of you pointed out that Voyages in English is a more traditional, school-like package...as I was looking at it this morning, I realized that's why I was drawn to it: it looks like something I would have used in elementary school. As I imagined really using it on a daily basis I quickly realized it's not the one, even though the content seems appealing and thorough. 

And thank you, most everyone, for pointing out that WWS is indeed intense! It does look like a fabulous program -- I very much admire Susan Wise Bauer (I've read The Well Trained Mind and we've enjoyed the Story of the World series as read alouds) but it does seem like 1) this would be a better fit for my girl when she's older and 2) it doesn't necessarily jive with my theme of light and fun for this year.

I looked into Grammar Galaxy -- it looks like a fun approach to grammar! My kiddo is a dyed in the wool lover of stories and learns very well from a story format so this one is potentially a really good fit. Maybe we'll do the Writer's Apprentice, Grammar Galaxy, and occasional Arrow packets from Brave Writer? Though Fix It Grammar does seem like an interesting approach...hmm! I have set a limit for myself to make a decision by Tuesday because I can feel myself slipping into the realm of overthinking  🙂

That said, I will look into Winning with Writing and Writeshop as well! Thanks again everyone -- each one of your responses were so so helpful! Really excited to be homeschooling this year -- I think it's going to be really fun 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

[Lori D.]

3 hours ago, _Iris_ said:

...  Maybe we'll do the Writer's Apprentice, Grammar Galaxy, and occasional Arrow packets from Brave Writer...

That sounds like a great plan. 😄 If you find that something is lacking, or is not fitting as well as you hoped, you can always switch after the holidays, at the start of your new semester. (Unless something is causing outright melt-downs, rage, and hatred for a subject, I do suggest trying to stick with it for a full semester, as sometimes it just takes awhile for everyone to get the hang of the program.)

3 hours ago, _Iris_ said:

... My kiddo is a dyed in the wool lover of stories and learns very well from a story format so this one is potentially a really good fit...

Next year, she might really enjoy Cover Story (gr. 6-8) for writing. 😄 

3 hours ago, _Iris_ said:

...Thanks again everyone -- each one of your responses were so so helpful! Really excited to be homeschooling this year -- I think it's going to be really fun.

I do hope you guys have fun! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[HomeAgain]

2 hours ago, Casel Romando said:

Do you think these homeschooling programs for children can be useful for an adult? I recently tried something and it is easier for me to learn English than in a special school.

I do not think they would be quite as useful as you would hope.  For an adult learning English, I would go with a workbook program where the output is more controlled.  Maybe something like Climbing To Good English, but even that might be a little too far in the wrong direction.

[Masers]

On 9/13/2020 at 2:34 PM, _Iris_ said:

 Yay! Thanks, everyone, for all of this wonderful information! I've found that homeschoolers are so supportive and open with their expertise which is really very lovely. I am grateful!

I'd never heard of Brave Writer -- it looks neat! I love the idea of revisiting the books we treasure (especially Where the Mountain Meets the Moon and The Vanderbeekers!) which an eye towards grammar and literary analysis. That said, while I get that part of the program -- the "Arrow" -- I feel like I can't get a really good grasp of the writing part of the curriculum entails, even after reading through the website and the free samples. Does anyone have experience with this program?

And yes, a couple of you pointed out that Voyages in English is a more traditional, school-like package...as I was looking at it this morning, I realized that's why I was drawn to it: it looks like something I would have used in elementary school. As I imagined really using it on a daily basis I quickly realized it's not the one, even though the content seems appealing and thorough. 

And thank you, most everyone, for pointing out that WWS is indeed intense! It does look like a fabulous program -- I very much admire Susan Wise Bauer (I've read The Well Trained Mind and we've enjoyed the Story of the World series as read alouds) but it does seem like 1) this would be a better fit for my girl when she's older and 2) it doesn't necessarily jive with my theme of light and fun for this year.

I looked into Grammar Galaxy -- it looks like a fun approach to grammar! My kiddo is a dyed in the wool lover of stories and learns very well from a story format so this one is potentially a really good fit. Maybe we'll do the Writer's Apprentice, Grammar Galaxy, and occasional Arrow packets from Brave Writer? Though Fix It Grammar does seem like an interesting approach...hmm! I have set a limit for myself to make a decision by Tuesday because I can feel myself slipping into the realm of overthinking  🙂

That said, I will look into Winning with Writing and Writeshop as well! Thanks again everyone -- each one of your responses were so so helpful! Really excited to be homeschooling this year -- I think it's going to be really fun 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

I love Julie Bogart’s brave writer podcast, and I want to use the program, but I have never figured it out. It seems super confusing to me, but I’m sure I’m just missing something...??