Question for parents with kids who live in two households...therapists welcome too

[Tap]

DD13 is biologically my great niece. She has been with me since she was 5mo and I consider her my daughter. She goes to her bio-dads house most weekends, but not always. DD13 is mildly autistic, antagonistic, has anxiety, goes to a therapeutic day school for students with violence issues, and is aggressive. She also lies constantly. She is a very, very hard to raise. She can be sweet and funny, but her volatile internal light switch, makes it hard to parent her. 

I have little respect for her bio-dad. He makes bad decisions in his daily life, and iffy parenting decisions. But they love each other and I try to keep a relationship ongoing. There was twice that I felt he was causing her emotional harm, so I stopped visits for a while. I usually let her determine if she goes and how long she stays for. He has zero legal rights to visitation, so he can't legally complain if she doesn't go. He absolutely hates me because, at one point in time, I required him to go to family counseling with her to earn the right to see her again after he told me she had no mental issues, other that what I caused.  He held out for 6 months of no visits, before relenting and going for about 10 sessions. (Scheduling conflicts stops the visits).  All of that to explain why, I can't just have a parent to parent conversation with him (and step-mom) and feel like it would lead in a positive direction. Step-mom texts me, which is how I know what is going on. 

They have a small, two bedroom apartment. DD13 had her own room, until 2 months ago. With Covid happening, they let a female friend move into dd13s room, and dd now has to share the room when she is there. They have a bunk bed. Dd is 5'10" and 320lbs. Roommate an adult, shorter and smaller, but still similar proportions (ie neither person is appropriate for an upper bunk). Last weekend dd13 was upset about the situation and something else occurred that got her mad. She called me, sitting on  the bathroom floor sobbing uncontrollably (they said she isn't allowed on the bunk bed during the day anymore). I went and picked her up (they knew I was coming). She left without saying goodbye and that made them madder.

I get a text saying that the roommates wallet was missing. Followed by a text a few days later, saying it was found, but $80 was missing.  They are blaming dd13 since they say, she was the only other person there and she left abruptly. They are punishing her by making her do extra chores to pay the dad back (he is paying the roommate). They are also making her stay home, while they go on a family vacation next week (private beach house with other family for a week). She has been scream/sobbing off and on for 2 days over the incident, and knowing her, I have at least 3 days of crying to go. 

I do not think it is fair that they are punishing her without proof. No money has been found there or here. They said the wallet was found in dd13s craft tote in a hall closet. DD13 lies, but I haven't had issues with her stealing. I leave cash around all the time in my purse or on a table. I haven't had any problems in this regard. I can imagine the money might be misplaced and the roommate will find it wrapped with a receipt, or in a pair of pants. I assume the wallet was picked up off the table and put in the tote when the table got cleared. Maybe dd did take it, but again...zero proof. 

I am careful to tell dd13 that while I haven't had issues with her stealing in the past, that her lies, are part of what is causing the issue. If people could trust her word, then maybe they would look somewhere else for the money. I tell her that she won't be punished for this at our house (without proof), but I can't prevent consequences at her dad's. 

 

How do I deal with this?  I don't want her to go for a while anyways, but when she does go.....how do I deal with drama around the chores? They tend to wayyyyyy over punish and use mental games like Shaming.  I feel like they are the ones punishing her, but I am the parent paying the price for the punishment beacause I have to deal with her dreading going over, and the fallout from her  spewing about the injustice when she gets home. I am especially frustrated, that I don't agree with punishing for a crime that is circumstantial, at best. Due to the school she goes to, she is used to 'sucking it up' when the whole class gets punished for one or two people's actions. But...school is very fair and rules/consequences are clear. There aren't variable consequences, assigned by a pissed off dad, punishing his kid week after week (I am certain it will take all summer for her to 'pay' the money back). They tend to add more consequences for getting emotional. She doesn't have a therapist right now. I am going to reach out to her old therapist, but don't know if she is seeing patients right now. 

Help!!! I hate co-parenting!

[Scarlett]

Maybe it is time to insist on counseling (including him) again before you let her go back.  

[Tap]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Maybe it is time to insist on counseling (including him) again before you let her go back.  

This is my instinct too, but I don't know if the therapist is seeing patients right now or if we can get in. I'll call tomorrow. It is doubtful that we can't get in before fall, because she greatly limits her schedule in the summer (if she is taking new patients right now at all). 

[Spryte]

That’s really tough.  I like the therapy idea.

We dealt with two households.  I’m the stepmom, bio mom was a lot like your niece’s bio dad, in some ways, sounds like.  Not punishing harshly, but in other ways.  She, sadly, was dealing with a lot of mental illness.  It’s hard, looking back, to know that she must have been in pain every day, and I feel so sad for what her life must have felt like.  She never agreed to therapy, so ... if that doesn’t happen,  can you make a plan with DD about how to move forward? 
 

My DS would rail against the injustice of this.  False accusations are a huge issue. It would be hard to get past.  
 

Plus, the disappointment of no trip, and chores on top?  That’s a lot of punishment for something that may not have happened.

Some random ideas, none of which may work:  Could you suggest day visits only, since there is a roommate?  It sounds crowded there, anyway.  Could biodad visit for an afternoon at your place?  Could you provide chores for DD to earn money and pay back bio dad?  That would sting, because it would feel like admitting she did something, but might smooth things over enough to have some okay day visits.

Co-parenting is hard.  Harder when you’re not on the same page.  Just keep doing what you know is right for DD.  

 

[Tap]

21 minutes ago, Spryte said:

That’s really tough.  I like the therapy idea.

We dealt with two households.  I’m the stepmom, bio mom was a lot like your niece’s bio dad, in some ways, sounds like.  Not punishing harshly, but in other ways.  She, sadly, was dealing with a lot of mental illness.  It’s hard, looking back, to know that she must have been in pain every day, and I feel so sad for what her life must have felt like.  She never agreed to therapy, so ... if that doesn’t happen,  can you make a plan with DD about how to move forward? 
 

My DS would rail against the injustice of this.  False accusations are a huge issue. It would be hard to get past.  
 

Plus, the disappointment of no trip, and chores on top?  That’s a lot of punishment for something that may not have happened.

Some random ideas, none of which may work:  Could you suggest day visits only, since there is a roommate?  It sounds crowded there, anyway.  Could biodad visit for an afternoon at your place?  Could you provide chores for DD to earn money and pay back bio dad?  That would sting, because it would feel like admitting she did something, but might smooth things over enough to have some okay day visits.

Co-parenting is hard.  Harder when you’re not on the same page.  Just keep doing what you know is right for DD.  

 

I had just told dh before reading this, that she isn't staying the night until the roommate moves out. I agree, too crowded! And...honestly, I don't know her. It is conceivable, that she doesn't want to share a room with dd13 either and I would hate to have this be true...but what if the money isn't actually missing? 

Dh and DS both agree that they don't think dd stole the money. 

I won't pay for the lost money, because I figure they are going to punish her either way. I also figure that if the money  does show up (in a pants pocket or whatever), the roommate is more likely to admit to misplacing it and pay them back, than her paying me back (especially if dd gets punished before it does).

[katilac]

39 minutes ago, Tap said:

 but what if the money isn't actually missing? 

That was my very first thought upon reading the original post. 

I would let bio dad visit with her. No way am I letting somebody I don't respect, who has no legal rights, co-parent my child. This would absolutely extend to nixing certain punishments when she is over there. You're not taking responsibility for her or raising her, jackass, so no, you don't get to be uber punitive. I wouldn't let him do that any more than I would let a grandparent do it. 

He has her most weekends and you have her during the school week? That sounds like a lot of suck for you and very little work for him. So again, heckity heck to the no, that would not be happening. I mean, does it even give you a break, or is it realistically just harder when she comes home because he's flakey? 

The stuff about the money and chores would probably make me go ballistic as it is. But not taking her on vacation? I would chop off his head and fill it with meatballs.  That is, I would not allow someone so cruel and capricious to have so much control over my child. He's had 13 years to get it right, he's not going to get much better. I do not for one red hot second believe that they are doing this because they think it will benefit your dd. They want a child-free vacation and spotted a way to get it with a 'reason.' 

I mean, I absolutely cannot fathom telling my dd that she can't go on our family vacation, even if she did steal the money. I would handle stealing the money if I had proof, which certainly might include extra chores that she would complete before and after vacation. You were so bad that you are no longer family enough to go on our family vacation? I can't even. Did they also fill her stocking with coal when she was naughty around Christmas? That is just breathtakingly mean. 

He is her sperm donor    biological father, so I would allow visits. Visits. With my child, thus on my terms, period. My terms would include no more damn chores for a crime with no proof of who committed it or if it even happened. It would also include not staying overnight with some rando. 

They sound like emotionally abusive jerks. I might talk to a therapist, but only to help find the best wording to explain the changes in visitation to dd. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by katilac

[LucyStoner]

There's clearly a reason he doesn't have legal rights.  I would absolutely NOT condone him punishing her that harshly.   

No more overnight visits.  Perhaps no more unsupervised visits.  

Therapists are seeing people remotely if that might help.  

My hunch is that at best, the other home is chaotic enough that the money has simply been lost/mislaid.  At worst, the guest completely fabricated it's loss as a way to save face for accusing someone of taking her wallet or to make it less likely for her to have to share her room on the weekends with a 13 year old girl.  

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by LucyStoner

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

At worst, the guest completely fabricated it's loss as a way to save face for accusing someone of taking her wallet or to make it less likely for her to have to share her room on the weekends with a 13 year old girl.  

 

This is what I thought when I read your post.

[Hadley]

I spent a few years as a child in the back and forth runaround before my biological dad lost his rights.  Thank the Lord.  

I can unequivocally say that now, as a parent, I would refuse to allow my child to spend the night with an adult stranger, who I don’t know personally, in her bedroom.  I would think that would be plenty of reason to not return for a visit any time soon.  That’s playing with fire.

Good job trusting your mom gut and protecting your child!

[LucyStoner]

Moving someone into her bedroom like that and then telling her she can’t be on her bed during the day is a real slap in the face.  It would be one thing if she had to share with a sibling or there was an aunt or grandma in dire straits due to the pandemic who had to move in or something.  
 

But a grown unrelated woman?  WTF?  My ex-BIL does this- moves random “roommates” with sketchy backgrounds in to “help them” (and also to collect rent underneath the table).  None of these “roommates” has ever been good news.  

[73349]

*hugs*

Edited October 2, 2020 by Carolina Wren

[Tap]

14 hours ago, katilac said:

That was my very first thought upon reading the original post. 

I would let bio dad visit with her. No way am I letting somebody I don't respect, who has no legal rights, co-parent my child. This would absolutely extend to nixing certain punishments when she is over there. You're not taking responsibility for her or raising her, jackass, so no, you don't get to be uber punitive. I wouldn't let him do that any more than I would let a grandparent do it. 

He has her most weekends and you have her during the school week? That sounds like a lot of suck for you and very little work for him. So again, heckity heck to the no, that would not be happening. I mean, does it even give you a break, or is it realistically just harder when she comes home because he's flakey? 

The stuff about the money and chores would probably make me go ballistic as it is. But not taking her on vacation? I would chop off his head and fill it with meatballs.  That is, I would not allow someone so cruel and capricious to have so much control over my child. He's had 13 years to get it right, he's not going to get much better. I do not for one red hot second believe that they are doing this because they think it will benefit your dd. They want a child-free vacation and spotted a way to get it with a 'reason.' 

I mean, I absolutely cannot fathom telling my dd that she can't go on our family vacation, even if she did steal the money. I would handle stealing the money if I had proof, which certainly might include extra chores that she would complete before and after vacation. You were so bad that you are no longer family enough to go on our family vacation? I can't even. Did they also fill her stocking with coal when she was naughty around Christmas? That is just breathtakingly mean. 

He is her sperm donor    biological father, so I would allow visits. Visits. With my child, thus on my terms, period. My terms would include no more damn chores for a crime with no proof of who committed it or if it even happened. It would also include not staying overnight with some rando. 

They sound like emotionally abusive jerks. I might talk to a therapist, but only to help find the best wording to explain the changes in visitation to dd. 

I wouldn't have shared this story if you hadn't said this...but...

Maybe 5 years ago(?) the two parents went Black Friday shopping. That weekend, she acted up ( albeit significantly but typical for her). They took her store to store, as punishment, to return all of the presents they bought her. 😞   That was one of the times, I stopped visits. They didn't think they did anything wrong.😖 She had slowly returned to visits, and about 6 months later another thing happened where they said she couldn't go on a family trip, and I blew up on him.  He spewed a bunch of crap on me, and I said he couldn't see her again until he went to family counseling. 6 months passed, he finally relented, therapy was started  and progress was made. He refused to pay for it, so I did, which made me happy because I could pick the therapist.  The therapist helped him see that he was using shame to parent and he worked on some new strategies. Things got better for a while, but now this. Time to go back.

She goes when she wants. So, most weekends she goes for 3 hours, but up to 2 days. She calls me when she wants to come home. There are also times when she goes months between visits. I leave it up to her, since she knows the truth of the situation there.

BTW: his mom is schizophrenic, so he wasn't raised in a stable home. That is why I keep trying to give him a chance to learn and understand how to parent. Not just shut him out entirely. I think he is parenting, like he was parented. The step-mom is more reasonable but I think she is overwhelmed by the volatile nature of his strong personality butting against dd's strong personality.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Tap

[mathnerd]

6 hours ago, whitehawk said:

The point of the visits is to benefit the child and their relationship, but visits at this point are not doing that

Future visits should be in the daytime and she should return back to you at the end of the day. She is not benefiting by staying over at their house.

Sleepovers with a stranger in the bedroom is allowing a whole other can of worms to be opened. Many adults talk about sexual abuse that happened to them when they were young and in a situation where the adult in the house was neglectful and they were put in close proximity to strangers who took advantage of the situation. I believe that she is being wrongly accused and would not have stolen the money if she says so (my 13 year old would not know where to go to spend $80, so, chances are she did not do it). So, it is best if she does not sleep over at their house any more.

Edited May 13, 2020 by mathnerd