Boundaries with parents

[j.griff]

So, I am an only child (yes that probably explains a LOT LOL), my mom has called me everyday since I moved out. She has been know to call and let the phone ring as many times as it will ring, then hang up and call right back.

I wasn't answering the phone because I didn't want to talk to her at that moment. I feel harrassed when she does things like this. I have attempted to set boundaries with her, but apparently I'm no good at it. :o

I feel like she thinks of me as being "hers", kwim? She seems to think that she has a right to know where I am and what I'm doing everyday. I love her dearly, and I know that she isn't doing this to be overbearing and manipulative. I think she has major issues. I know this is scattered, and I apologize for that.

We can get off the phone or even be ON the phone and she will send me a gmail IM. It drives me nuts. I just log out of gmail chat when I see that her light has turned orange. I feel stalked. This is NOT healthy. I have told her that I do NOT want to talk on the phone everyday, that I need space, etc. But then it always creeps back up to the level that it currently is. It's making me crazy!!!!! And when I first tell her I don't want to be on the phone everyday, she's like a child- she tests those boundaries. Suddenly there are fifty little things she thinks up, and she HAS to have MY input on it right now or xyz. I am going to be talking to a therapist about all this, I just don't have an appointment yet. My mom would flip if she knew that I went to see a Dr. about anxiety/depression and that I got a Rx for it, and that I'll be seeing a therapist. I'd like to keep this to myself, I'd like for it to just be for ME and have nothing to do with her, KWIM? But yesterday she called while I was gone and ASKED dd where I was (at the hospital getting the Rx filled) and dd told her. I was livid, I have NO space from her. I don't like it when I have to tell her to stop calling, she always has my dad call me and put me on a guilt trip about how his health is bad and he wants me to know he loves me and blah blah blah. The more I type, the more it sounds like my parents are really psycho, (nervous LOL).

I have told her before that I do NOT want our extended family talking about me and my kids personal lives, knowing our personal issues, etc. and she ALWAYS tells me that she doesn't talk about those things with them, but then she turns around and tells me "x said that so-and-so had that problem too, and they did y about it and it worked for them" :mad:

I want to be able to have a HEALTHY relationship with my parents. They have always done everything they can to help me, and I don't want to hurt them. But this isn't "right". I need to tell my mom today that I am not going to be talking to her everyday, AGAIN, and I need to tell her that I do NOT want a phone call from daddy, that I do NOT want to hear any guilt trip junk about it, that I am a grown woman and that she is hindering my family by doing the things she is doing. But then when I "do" talk to her she will be quiet, she will sound horribly depressed, and she won't respond to my attempts at conversation in the way she normally would. UGH!!!!

Okay, I'm done for now, this is too much to type. Thanks for reading if you've gotten this far. I should go buy that boundaries book today, :o

[melissel]

Jenn, I couldn't read and not send you some ((())). My mom deals with some of that from my grandmother (who is sneaky and manipulative, and thinks of her children as her slaves), and has recently set boundaries of her own. Unfortunately, it took her so long to recognize what was happening that she's incredibly resentful of my grandmother now, and she almost can't stand to be around her. You're smart to define these issues now and prepare yourself to deal with them. It seems harsh to you, I know, but doing it now may save your relationship with your mother in the long term.

 

Also, you said it yourself--she's like a child. You need to treat her as you would a child. Kindly, but firmly, and hold your ground. You can't protect anyone unless you protect yourself, and I've seen from experience what a twisted and awful relationship with your mom can do to your whole life. Don't feel any guilt. She's an adult, and she will adjust. Put on your own air mask, and then help her with hers, if you can. KWIM?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

So, I am an only child (yes that probably explains a LOT LOL), my mom has called me everyday since I moved out. She has been know to call and let the phone ring as many times as it will ring, then hang up and call right back.

 

 

 

I have absolutely no advice, but as a fellow Lonely Only :D, I offer sympathy.

 

I'm so sorry. Ugh.

[j.griff]

Thanks for the sympathy, LOL. I wasn't exactly a "Lonely" only though- my mom felt guilt about having only me, so she pushed me into a false "sibling" relationship with my aunt, and that caused a lot of other problems, <sigh>. I almost feel guilty about "talking" about this here, but heck- if my mom can lie to me and tell me she's not talking about my personal issues with others and then tell me the replies of those others, then I have every darn right to get my junk out in the open too, right? ;)

[j.griff]

Thank you, for the hugs and the affirmation. :)

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Thanks for the sympathy, LOL. I wasn't exactly a "Lonely" only though- my mom felt guilt about having only me, so she pushed me into a false "sibling" relationship with my aunt, and that caused a lot of other problems, <sigh>. I almost feel guilty about "talking" about this here, but heck- if my mom can lie to me and tell me she's not talking about my personal issues with others and then tell me the replies of those others, then I have every darn right to get my junk out in the open too, right? ;)

 

Right! And you can say, "Well, Pam had this very same issue with a boundary-challenged mom like you, and she found it helpful to..."

 

Heh, heh, heh. :p

[j.griff]

Rroflol :d

[Stirsmommy]

My mother has a twin??????? And here I thought she was an only child. That is so my mother. It is even worse for my sister she lives near her and is with her (because she can't say no) everyday. Completely unhealthy. She is in TX and I am in MN. She still calls 8-10 times a day. I nearly posted two days ago because I thought I was going to go insane. I too have tried all of the boundary stuff to no avail. She is brilliant at guilt trips too. Moving away was a huge help for me in that she can't demand I be near her all of the time but still she is all into my business asking the kids and everything else. I can't offer a bit of advise but I can commiserate. (((())))

[j.griff]

Oh, I'm so sorry- nice to know I'm not alone in the insane train, but stinks to know someone else is suffering too.

The kicker for me is, we're moving to my family's neighboring state this summer, and that fact has just about caused a psychotic break for me, (J/K, I think LOL)

[Mrs. H.]

How about telling your mom that the constant calling is too much for you, and then stop answering the phone during the day? Return her phone calls when it is convenient for you, perhaps in the afternoon after school is done, and chat with her for about 30 min., then politely get off the phone, and don't answer it again for the rest of the day/evening.

 

If she asks why you didn't answer her calls, tell her you've decided that the constant ringing, and you being on the phone all the time was hindering your ability to teach your kids, clean the house, read, write, *insert activity here*, so you cut the ringer off and decided to return calls when you are not busy.

 

Yes, it will be very hard, and it's difficult not to answer the phone when you know it is your mother. If the ringing bugs you, tell your dh that you're cutting the ringer off, and if he calls you will call him back. Check your caller ID every hour or so and return the calls you have time for.

 

My mom was like this when dh and I first got married. It drove her crazy that I didn't need to consult her for every little thing, and that I could make decisions about my life without her. I'm not an only, but I married young (18), so she worried (worries) about me a lot, and I spend a lot of time evaluating every offer and phone call she makes so I can maintain my independence from her, because she will swoop in in a heartbeat and take over. She doesn't call every day anymore, but it still bugs her (after five children!), that I don't call her every time the kids cough, hiccup, or have a sniffle.

 

She will probably be upset, throw a fit, have your father call, go into a "depression", call you ungrateful, and guilt trip you every chance she gets for awhile, but stand firm, and you'll both come out better. It's not any healthier for her to constantly obsess over you than it is for you to constantly have to deal with her. About the therapist, maybe telling her would be a good idea...it might give her a wake-up call that she's gone too far, unless you feel that it would be talked about to all the other family members.

 

Fwiw, dh and I don't tell our family ANYTHING personal about ourselves, because they gossip too much. They don't know how much dh makes, what we paid for the house, that *insert child's name* was sick last week, etc. Some of them are bothered that we have no problems changing the subject or telling them it's none of their business, and some aren't. If it were something serious or life-threatening, of course we would let them know, but they don't need to know the details of dh's Dr.'s visit or that we've decided to change our diets to whole foods and grow our own vegetables. They think we're weird enough anyway for having five kids, so we don't volunteer any unecessary info. Sometimes cutting those apron strings is hard, but the freedom and lightness of a guilt-free life is sooo worth it. :o

[Adrianne]

I know what you are feeling. My relationship with my mom is also not healthy. Recently a friend gave me this analogy, our relationship is like building a wall, I am building my share but she (my mother) is just staring at the materials doing whatever she wants with it. Sometimes every tearing it down.

 

Unfortunately, I do not have an answer for you. I have been working on my relationship with my mother for MANY years and I feel like we take one step forward and 2 steps back. It is so frustrating.

 

I hope you can take comfort in knowing that there are others out there that share your pain.

 

Adrianne

[Snickerdoodle]

Your mom sounds lonely. Does she have any hobbies? Is she healthy? Maybe you can encourage her to volunteer or join a hobby group?

 

<<hugs>> It must be hard having her call everyday. That would drive me nuts.

[Adrianne]

She called me last week and told me that she did not think HS is a good idea. :mad: she states, she never hears anything good about HS and may be I should put the kids in public school :mad: This comes after years of her telling what good think HS is, and how great a job I am doing :confused:

 

I said I had to go make lunch and hung up the phone. I have not spoken to her since. Talk about tearing down walls.

 

Boy, I am glad you posted this thread! Venting makes me feel better!

 

Adrianne

[Liz CA]

I do NOT want a phone call from daddy, that I do NOT want to hear any guilt trip junk about it, that I am a grown woman and that she is hindering my family by doing the things she is doing. But then when I "do" talk to her she will be quiet, she will sound horribly depressed, and she won't respond to my attempts at conversation in the way she normally would. UGH!!!!

Okay, I'm done for now, this is too much to type. Thanks for reading if you've gotten this far. I should go buy that boundaries book today, :o

 

is called "Boundaries" by John Townsend and Henry Cloud and it's available through their website http://www.newlife.com and at amazon and many other places.

 

1. You don't need to feel guilty for not wanting to be her mother because you are her daughter and grown-up.

 

2. Tell her and your Dad you love them and you will call them twice (or however many times you like) a week and chat with them.

 

3. In between, I would let Mom or Dad leave a message. Don't be threatened or conned into picking up the phone. They will survive if you do not talk to them daily.

 

4. Townsend and Cloud would probably ask you what you need from them that makes you so susceptible to their demands?

This is always a hard question to answer because it forces us to examine a lot of issues that happily dwell deep down and that we do not want to rake to the surface. Been there, done that - still doing it occasionally.

 

There is hope. It will change if you take action. You are still honoring your parents even if you do not talk to them every day and give in to their every whim.

 

Buy the book! It's an eye-opener and those two guys write really well. :D

[j.griff]

Just a few minutes ago I reset my answering machine to pick up after two rings (there is NO ringer volume on my phone, and that is driving me crazy- last night I just completely unplugged the phone, and I LOVE that I can "reject" calls on my cell phone :) ), and I was going to call with my cell to check and make sure the setting was saved, but then my mom called LOL. The message was my voice before, but now it's that computer guy. So of course she emailed me to tell me she had called and wasn't sure if she dialed the right number and that I can call her if I want to (Like I don't KNOW that!?). Then 5 minutes later she called again, (she never leaves a message), and since I didn't answer she emailed me again. I refuse to sign in to gmail chat ever again, LOL.

I so do NOT feel up to dealing with "the conversation" we need to have about this, again, so that's why I'm just not answering. I am wondering right now if it would be better to just do what I need to do without talking to her about it. I have talked to her about it before, and it's just not pretty. I don't see why *I* should have to deal with *her* baggage, when I can just choose to stop answering the phone without an explanation. I dunno. I think I'll just stick with this for now, cause it's working but she's still gonna call at least every hour or so :rolleyes:

[j.griff]

She has hobbies and she has other relatives to visit and do things for/with, but she doesn't like doing things with them because "they" are not "me". :(

[melissel]

I don't see why *I* should have to deal with *her* baggage, when I can just choose to stop answering the phone without an explanation. I dunno. I think I'll just stick with this for now, cause it's working but she's still gonna call at least every hour or so :rolleyes:

 

I think it's an OK short-term solution, but eventually she's going to nail you on it, and by then she'll be even more worked up and no one will be able to stay calm. I think it's probably better to be upfront with her about it, even if it's just to say, "Listen, I'm getting a gazillion calls a day from friends, telemarketers, political campaigns, you, DH--we just had to stop answering the phone so much. I've been checking messages once or twice a day and returning calls when I have the time, so don't be surprised if I can't talk as much until things slow down." And then just leave it at that if you have to. Would that work?

[Mrs. H.]

Dh is like this with his dad. He will call dh's cell phone while dh is at work (big no-no with dh!), and when he doesn't answer, he calls right back! Drives dh crazy, but he doesn't answer the phone, he calls him back when he's good and ready. Then, he keeps the conversation short and to the point, and gets off quickly. He knows he might hurt his dad's feelings, but he doesn't feel he should be rewarded for calling him at work. (Dh's dad works overseas, and when he's off and home for a month, he seems to forget that dh works every week day, 7-6.)

 

He was also like this with his mother, who would call and talk about how lonely she was, why her children never came to visit her, what dh's sisters had said/done to upset her, and then when she got off the phone with dh, she would call his sisters and complain to them about him! He finally stopped answering the phone completely, but never told them why. He would just tell them, "Oh, I was busy/at work/in the yard/eating dinner, etc." It took forever, some tears from his mom, and more than a little aggravation on our part, but eventually they quit calling so much, and our relationship got better.

[Tia in Wa]

I feel for you.

I was born to a teenage mom and mostly raised by my Grandma. She sounds just like your mom. She drives me nutz! I love her but I would love it if she would loose her voice for about a week (and not be truly ill.):D

[j.griff]

But that would imply that it's OKAY for "her" to call me, and that I WILL talk to her everyday in the future. KWIM?

[j.griff]

Venting does help a LOT, doesn't it?

I don't think I'd be able to talk either, after being told something like that. That stinks.

[melissel]

But that would imply that it's OKAY for "her" to call me, and that I WILL talk to her everyday in the future. KWIM?

 

That's a good point. I just wonder if not answering the phone is simply avoiding the issue. She doesn't sound like the type to just let it drop. I don't know--mainly I'm thinking of my own mom. She tried ignoring the calls over and over, but each time would let herself slip out of it, and kept ending up in the same cycle. It wasn't until this last time, when she really gave it all to my grandmother, instead of keeping it all bottled up, that she herself was able to make a change. Unfortunately, she'd kept it bottled up so long that it turned into a blow-up. Right away, my grandmother went back to some of her old tricks, but my mom was finally galvanized enough to stick to her guns.

 

It took a long time for my mom to understand enough about herself to see why she was allowing it all to happen, and why SHE was the one feeling guilt and avoiding the confrontation. She kept saying, "How can I tell my own mother no???" But when she finally did actually lay it all out on the line, she was freed from it in her own mind.

 

Then again, this is all just me speaking as a third party having watched someone else go through it (though I've been privy to almost all of what went on). I really do think you need to get yourself to a therapist, someone who has actual training in dealing with these dynamics. I hope you can come to place of freedom from it, and soon!

[j.griff]

I can understand that. I'm just not sure what to do, because I have laid it all out for my mom, several times before. I've even tried going the route that, "oh, well I've just been spending too much time on the phone and I need to stop doing that", so that I didn't have to deal with the rest of the stuff that goes on when I actually point blank Tell her that she needs to stop, what she needs to stop, and why. She denies everything, "I never meant to xyz, and I'm sorry you feel that way" blah blah blah. And then I get the apologies for being an only child, LOL.

Maybe I should just take a few days and write her an email. I tried that before too, only I mailed her a letter and she called me bawling and pathetic about she didn't know what she had done to cause me to send her a letter "like that" (that told her I was tired of feeling like an idol that she worshipped, that I needed space and only wanted to talk to her once every two weeks) and she was sorry for whatever it was and how hurt she was that I would "send a letter" instead of "tell her", blah blah blah.

I was raised hearing the same old stories all the time, "be careful what you say to people, that could be the last time you ever see them. A man your daddy worked with had a fight with their boss, and he was upset when he left work, and he ended up wrecking his car and he died and the boss now lives with the horrible guilt about the things he said to that guy, feels like it's his fault that he was in a wreck because he made that guy so upset" blah blah blah.

That is one of the reasons I feel "guilty" about just telling her how I feel. Ugh, this is just totally icky. She just called again and left a message, "Hey baby, I was just wondering about you <silence>. oooookay then, I'll talk to you later. bye." (in the depressed voice).

Maybe I can just write her a quick email- "Hi mom, I am not going to talk on the phone today. If you really need to tell me something just email me." or something. <sigh>

[Jean in Newcastle]

You know, you can't fix how she feels or how she is going to react. From past experience, she will probably feel like a victim/martyr etc. and she is going to react badly. But that really is her CHOICE. Yes, she's been choosing to react that way for so long that it has become ingrained, but it is a choice nonetheless. Personally, I would'nt bother trying to explain it all to her. She'll just use your explanation as a further reason to be a victim/martyr.

 

I think the practical suggestions: turn off the ringer, get a phone that you can set the ring-tone on, change your e-mail address and don't tell her, are good ones. A suggestion I have is to call once a week at a specific time. It may be like taking medicine for you at first to pick up the phone and call, but do it for the sake of honoring your parents, not for any benefit for yourself as such. Put on a timer so that you can talk for only 10 min. and then hang-up. And give yourself permission to disengage your emotions from this. You know you have not been an evil child. You know that you are an adult and that your mom is overstepping her bounds. So you have a choice too, to let yourself get wrapped up in guilt or not.

[melissel]

Oh gosh, I do see more now. In that case, I think Jean's advice is right on. It doesn't sound like she's going to learn, so you need to put up your fences. I'm so sorry. I can't believe she's called three times since you've posted. :(

[G5052]

My mom has vascular dementia, and she would call 6-8 times a day and leave all kinds of frantic, sometimes disturbing messages if I didn't answer. Reasoning with her is virtually impossible and she has little sense of time or other's priorities these days. We put on call blocking for only her number and only take it off when I'm OK with her calling :). Other relatives and her friends know this and can get through if there's an emergency, so it's not like she's unable to reach us at all.

 

I love her to death, but she was absolutely destroying my ability to homeschool and the peace and order in our home.

[j.griff]

She just called my cell phone twice, and voice mail for my cell isn't working (need to call T-mobile about that too), so she called the house again and I...answered. She immediately, in an exasperrated (sp?) voice says, "Hey baby." I said, "Hey mama, I am fine, I don't want to talk on the phone so please just stop calling." She says, "Well, I was worried because your answering machine had changed, your cell phone wouldn't let me leave a message, and everything is so different I didn't know WHAT had happened" (she entertains thoughts that maybe we have been taken hostage by who-knows-who and that maybe they turned off all forms of communication, or maybe there was such a huge earthquake here that no one else knows about it and it's not on the news, because maybe everyone died, and other such things.)

I said, "No, we're fine. I just do not want to talk on the phone. Please ASSUME that we are fine and that IF anything horrible happens SOMEONE WILL call you and let you know."

She says, in her crushed and depressed voice, "Okay. Okay."

I just don't WANT to try to tell her WHY I don't want to talk, I just want to be able to NOT talk to her, and not have my sanity driven out of my by the incessant ringing of the (&*(^*(&%)*^%& telephone. :(

[Remudamom]

Shake it off girl, you aren't doing anything wrong. She's just like my grandmother used to be. She had five grandchildren but the only one she was even civil to was me. It made me almost hate her.

 

Put your foot down now before you end up not even going to her funeral. Her problem, her choice.

[melissel]

Uugghhh! I wish I was there to give you a hug right now. This post almost made me start crying for you. I'm so sorry!!!!

 

Hey, have you talked to your dad about this at all? Is he able to run any kind of interference, or will she listen to him at all as a "third party"? Just grasping at straws here... :(

[j.griff]

No way, my dad is SO not any sort of backup, his response would be "Don't you talk to your mother like that!". EVEN though as a child, I would take trips to the store with my dad and he would ask me about stuff, and I'd tell him how mother was driving me crazy, how I thought she was crazy, etc. And he would agree with me, and give me hugs, but then in front of her he took her side. :( :(

[j.griff]

So, I KNOW that my mom is sitting there now, after our "chat" this morning, thinking that she has done something to make me angry with her. I know that the next time I talk to her, it's going to be HORRIBLE, she's gonna cry and ask me what she did, or she's just not going to talk (in which case I'll just get off the phone). She had a horrible childhood, that's not my fault. She has been mistreated by lots of people, that's not my fault.

She has made poor choices, that's not my fault.

If she is having a nervous breakdown right now, it is NOT MY FAULT. I am shaking, I feel nauseous, I am basically having a small anxiety attack. UGH!!!!!!! I don't want to have "NO" relationship with my parents, I just want to be left alone, KWIM? I don't know if I will be ABLE to have a "real" relationship with them. My mother will nod and agree with EVERYTHING that I say, and if I change my mind? Then she's right there dogging my previous choices, pointing out the negative things about them, telling me how worried she was when I was doing things the other way, how relieved she is to hear that I am going to do things differently. UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

)(&(*)^&*T%$% ^)(*^&(*&^(*&^)* (*&_(**&)*)_*)( %&*%#$$#&^#$^#%$^@%$@^$@*^@

That's all.

[melissel]

When do you start seeing your therapist? Seriously, is it possible for you now to just put it out of your head for a little while? Just do a Scarlett O'Hara and tell yourself you'll think about it tomorrow, and get up and moving doing something that feels good? Turn on the TV if you have to? I think therapy will do a lot for you, but in the meantime, are you able to just stay out of your own head for a bit?

[j.griff]

I don't know when the therapy will start, hopefully soon though. Right now, I am going to turn my music up loud, and go scrub the kitchen. The kids can dance around in the family room, :) And if I'm singing the songs I play, mayhaps I won't "think" too much. Thanks for your support, it really has helped. <insert big smoochi lips smiley here> ;)

[Adrianne]

II am shaking, I feel nauseous, I am basically having a small anxiety attack. UGH!!!!!!!

 

You should not allow yourself to feel this way. She is not building her side of the wall! She is tearing it down. Your mom might get upset but if you are going to get through to her, you will need to hold your ground and not give in because you feel bad. It might take a year, but she will at least acknowledge your feelings eventually. Once she acknowledges your feelings, you can work on the relationship together.

 

Be strong!!

 

Adrianne