Common App Course Descriptions -- are they essential?

[RanchGirl]

Would anyone care to weigh in on whether you would include course descriptions in this situation?  My son is technically a homeschooler but has taken dual enrollment courses on a University campus for 11th and 12th grade.  For 9th and 10th he took classes with me (plus 2 online and 2 co-op classes).  I think I would only write descriptions for the 9th and 10th grade classes but even that seems kind of ridiculous. 

For example, he took Geometry and Algebra 2 for 9th/10th with me.  Then pre-calc and calc are on his college transcript.  He did 2 years of English with me, and 2 years of English are on his college transcript.

I guess I feel like my classes have the usual names and were followed and validated by the college courses.  So why would descriptions be necessary?  The common app doesn't ask for them, but from what I can tell, some homeschool parents include them with the school profile.

Or is this just my bad attitude toward the common app coming through?!?  My son is applying to selective colleges so maybe I should just buckle down and write them?

 

[RootAnn]

My DD had one of her colleges that liked to see course descriptions from homeschoolers so I included them for everyone. If the colleges don't want them, I wouldn't send them. But I figured more information was better.

[RanchGirl]

37 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

My DD had one of her colleges that liked to see course descriptions from homeschoolers so I included them for everyone. If the colleges don't want them, I wouldn't send them. But I figured more information was better.

Did the colleges ask for this info on their website?  My son's colleges don't list them under requirements for homeschooled applicants so maybe I am safe just putting "Course Descriptions Available Upon Request" on the transcript?  🙂

[EKS]

Actually, the Common App itself only asks for course descriptions for *outside* courses.  I kid you not--it's in the homeschool supplement.

When my older son applied to colleges, I made a course description document that I uploaded with the transcript that had the descriptions for the homeschool courses, and then I put descriptions for the outside courses in the space provided.  No one questioned that.

With my rising senior, I've decided to have descriptions for all courses taken in the document I upload with the transcript, and I will simply refer the reader to that document where it asks for descriptions in the homeschool supplement.

[RootAnn]

21 minutes ago, RanchGirl said:

Did the colleges ask for this info on their website? 

Yes. I will also say my kid did not apply to highly selective universities. 

I know that one school looked at her course descriptions as she was asked s question about a course listed on the transcript in a scholarship interview that they would not have known to ask without reading the detail in the course description. That was not the school that asked for them, FWIW. I don't know that any other schools looked at them, my school profile, or even my counselor letter.

If you have cookie cutter courses and no school asks for them, I wouldn't worry about including them.

I likely won't do them for my dd#2 but she only wants to apply to one school. They will care more about her extra curricular activities & "personal statement" for their scholarships. They likely wouldn't know what to do with course descriptions.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Will your kid meet the requirements for an automatic transfer agreement with his #1 college?  If not, I would do the course descriptions. 

For me, the key is at the end of your post, where you say he is applying to selective colleges. Your transcript and a set of course descriptions provide a place to lay out a cohesive view of his educational experience and readiness. 

Colleges will send a transcript if you request it, but will not include an explanation of the course content.  The course description allows you to give more detail, even if you pull a lot from the college catalog. 

Things your course descriptions can clarify include: 

The course was taken as a high school student (the college transcript may not differentiate among possible student status options)

Where the course falls in scope and sequence (for example one of my kids had a College Algebra course, which at that school was the first semester of a two semester pre-calculus series. The course description allowed me to state that rather than make it look like he'd gone from backwards to a remedial course)

Clarify the content and level of the course (our college had several different chemistry offerings, including a full year STEM sequence, a one year survey, and chemistry for cosmetology. It also had a separate course number for chem labs. I was able to both explain that two courses (lecture and lab) were listed on my transcript as one entry and clarify why there was General Chemistry 1 and General Chemistry 2 for a full high school credit each semester) This is helpful for courses with less obvious titles too.

Give info on setting for the course.  (College transcripts might not differentiate between online, on the college campus or on a high school campus - possibly taught by a high school teacher. Some high schools teach dual enrollment courses at the high school with the college instructor coming there to teach or with a high school teacher authorized by the college to teach the class.)

I would never say that without course descriptions a student won't get any college acceptance letters. There are many colleges that care more about other things.  But I think if you are looking at colleges on the higher end of selectivity (25-30% acceptance rate or lower rates) that not doing course descriptions leaves a useful and potentially powerful piece of an application unsubmitted. Admissions might read the whole thing or they might spot check items they aren't sure of.  Given that admissions spends around 15 min with each record, I don't think you can assume they will have time to research questions in a course catalog. 

Descriptions don't have to be really long or detailed. Mine are a long paragraph with a list of texts or resources used. I fit 2-5 courses per page.

[Mom0012]

I have spent many hours working on my dd’s course descriptions, always wondering if anyone is actually going to read this document. (I suspect few, if any, will, tbh.) But, I hear that, yes, they may. So I am trying to make them as accurate as possible, which has been extremely time-consuming since I tend to have perfectionistic tendencies when it comes to projects like this.  

I did them for my ds two years ago. He applied to colleges that had no less than 50% acceptance rates and I highly, highly doubt even one person read them other than myself. Because, why would they? But, of course, I don’t know that for a fact. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Mom0012

[FriedClams]

I did not do course descriptions. DD now attends a highly selective University. She also had a bit of DE (20+ hours?) and a few unusual courses (shop, international studies, etc) but otherwise a fairly standard (normal for the college) academically advanced transcript. 

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I highly recommend course descriptions. Validating exams aside, you might be shocked at what homeschoolers routinely submit (or fail to submit) as part of the application process. We had more than one admissions office thank us for the detailed course descriptions we provided. It gave them a basis for judging our student's work and defending why they were good candidates for admissions and scholarships. To be brutal, I think the view of an admissions office is that they often have more great applicants than they can accept. If you give them a reason not to choose your student then they will take it, that could include lack of documentation or evidence of challenging work. Therefore, I would give them every reason to say yes.  I also recommend including course descriptions over stating they are available on request. Admissions officers are very busy and don't want to have to find time to contact you to ask for more paperwork. Do homeschooled kids get into college with out all this paperwork, yes. Does it potentially give a kid a boost or level the playing field when they are in a competitive environment such as selective schools or scholarships? I am a firm believer that it does.

[EKS]

8 minutes ago, JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst said:

I highly recommend course descriptions. Validating exams aside, you might be shocked at what homeschoolers routinely submit (or fail to submit) as part of the application process. We had more than one admissions office thank us for the detailed course descriptions we provided. It gave them a basis for judging our student's work and defending why they were good candidates for admissions and scholarships. To be brutal, I think the view of an admissions office is that they often have more great applicants than they can accept. If you give them a reason not to choose your student then they will take it, that could include lack of documentation or evidence of challenging work. Therefore, I would give them every reason to say yes.  I also recommend including course descriptions over stating they are available on request. Admissions officers are very busy and don't want to have to find time to contact you to ask for more paperwork. Do homeschooled kids get into college with out all this paperwork, yes. Does it potentially give a kid a boost or level the playing field when they are in a competitive environment such as selective schools or scholarships? I am a firm believer that it does.

I agree with every word of this.

I think of the documentation that I provide as a window into my competence as an educator and an example of my definition of excellence.  So in that sense, it is not just about the content of my course descriptions--it is about the whole package that includes the transcript, course descriptions, and counselor letter.  When you ensure that your documentation is well written and anticipates the needs of its intended audience, that documentation becomes a way of showcasing the expectations you have for yourself and, by extension, the students in your homeschool.  

And that right there is the reason that this college admissions stuff freaks me out.

[daijobu]

21 hours ago, RanchGirl said:

Or is this just my bad attitude toward the common app coming through?!?  My son is applying to selective colleges so maybe I should just buckle down and write them?

 

 

If it helps, I did very little de novo writing of course descriptions.  Typically it was a copy/paste from either the actual course description, or from the book jacket of the textbook.  Then some light editing to remove the sales-y parts and make each with consistent wording.  

It's not ideal to start the process now in his senior year (better to keep track as you go along because sometimes course descriptions disappear from the internet), it shouldn't be too hard once you have a cup of coffee in hand.  

[RanchGirl]

21 hours ago, EKS said:

Actually, the Common App itself only asks for course descriptions for *outside* courses.  I kid you not--it's in the homeschool supplement.

When my older son applied to colleges, I made a course description document that I uploaded with the transcript that had the descriptions for the homeschool courses, and then I put descriptions for the outside courses in the space provided.  No one questioned that.

With my rising senior, I've decided to have descriptions for all courses taken in the document I upload with the transcript, and I will simply refer the reader to that document where it asks for descriptions in the homeschool supplement.

FYI, it appears the homeschool supplement no longer exists.  We now provide all our info through the school profile/transcripts and a couple questions in the school report section.

[EKS]

49 minutes ago, RanchGirl said:

FYI, it appears the homeschool supplement no longer exists.  We now provide all our info through the school profile/transcripts and a couple questions in the school report section.

It most certainly does.  I was just filling it out for my younger son's application today.

[RanchGirl]

3 hours ago, EKS said:

It most certainly does.  I was just filling it out for my younger son's application today.

Kai, where is it?  When logged in as counselor, I see the school profile and 3 questions on a homeschool tab under the student section.  Is that what you're referring to?  I don't see anything labeled homeschool supplement.

Edited September 4, 2019 by RanchGirl

[EKS]

28 minutes ago, RanchGirl said:

Kai, where is it?  When logged in as counselor, I see the school profile and 3 questions on a homeschool tab under the student section.  Is that what you're referring to?  I don't see anything labeled homeschool supplement.

Yes, that's it.  It has the same questions that it did five years ago.  This is the one I was referring to upthread:

If the student has taken courses from a distance learning program, traditional secondary school, or institution of higher education, please list the course title and content, sponsoring institution, instruction setting and schedule, and frequency of interactions with instructors and fellow students (once per day, week, etc.).

[Mom0012]

17 hours ago, JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst said:

I highly recommend course descriptions. Validating exams aside, you might be shocked at what homeschoolers routinely submit (or fail to submit) as part of the application process. We had more than one admissions office thank us for the detailed course descriptions we provided. It gave them a basis for judging our student's work and defending why they were good candidates for admissions and scholarships. To be brutal, I think the view of an admissions office is that they often have more great applicants than they can accept. If you give them a reason not to choose your student then they will take it, that could include lack of documentation or evidence of challenging work. Therefore, I would give them every reason to say yes.  I also recommend including course descriptions over stating they are available on request. Admissions officers are very busy and don't want to have to find time to contact you to ask for more paperwork. Do homeschooled kids get into college with out all this paperwork, yes. Does it potentially give a kid a boost or level the playing field when they are in a competitive environment such as selective schools or scholarships? I am a firm believer that it does.

I do agree with this and it is the reason that ultimately made me go forward with writing documentation that isn’t likely to truly be read. A quick glance at how thorough my paperwork is and the effort that it took, speaks volumes about the care and dedication I put into educating my student.

[RanchGirl]

Thanks all for sharing your thoughts, you have motivated me to push through and get those course descriptions done!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

14 hours ago, RanchGirl said:

Thanks all for sharing your thoughts, you have motivated me to push through and get those course descriptions done!

 

You can do it. 

 

[klmama]

On 9/3/2019 at 10:59 PM, EKS said:

If the student has taken courses from a distance learning program, traditional secondary school, or institution of higher education, please list the course title and content, sponsoring institution, instruction setting and schedule, and frequency of interactions with instructors and fellow students (once per day, week, etc.).

In this context I read "distance learning program" as having live class times and grades and such, so that there is some actual interaction between instructor and student.  Wilson Hill or WTM Academy type of classes.  I don't think of asynchronous, self-paced classes like Derek Owens' online courses or other courses with no live interaction.  Has anyone verified this?  

[EKS]

8 hours ago, klmama said:

In this context I read "distance learning program" as having live class times and grades and such, so that there is some actual interaction between instructor and student.  Wilson Hill or WTM Academy type of classes.  I don't think of asynchronous, self-paced classes like Derek Owens' online courses or other courses with no live interaction.  Has anyone verified this?  

I interpret "distance learning program" as a credit-granting online or correspondence school since it is listed in a series with "traditional secondary school" and "institute of higher education."  I consider both WTM Academy and Derek Owens to be resources, since the parent is the one who grants the credit.  However, I consider Oak Meadow, which is asynchronous, has no student interaction, and teacher interaction limited to email to fall into the "distance learning" category because it is accredited and grants credit.  

But I think that you can interpret it any way you want.  So, for example, if my students were short on experiences with teachers other than me and had no outside classes in more traditional settings, I'd definitely put WTM Academy and Derek Owens on there.

ETA: I interpreted it the way I explained in the first paragraph five years ago when the older kid applied to college, and there were no problems.

Edited September 10, 2019 by EKS

[RootAnn]

24 minutes ago, EKS said:

I interpret "distance learning program" as a credit-granting online or correspondence school since it is listed in a series with "traditional secondary school" and "institute of higher education."  I consider both WTM Academy and Derek Owens to be resources, since the parent is the one who grants the credit.  However, I consider Oak Meadow, which is asynchronous, has no student interaction, and teacher interaction limited to email to fall into the "distance learning" category because it is accredited and grants credit.  

But I think that you can interpret it any way you want.  So, for example, if my students were short on experiences with teachers other than me and had no outside classes in more traditional settings, I'd definitely put WTM Academy and Derek Owens on there.

Wilson Hill is accredited now and issues transcripts & such.

I agree you can interpret it somewhat loosely/however you want as well. I got around having to interpret it as I simply said, "See included course descriptions."

;)

[EKS]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

Wilson Hill is accredited now and issues transcripts & such.

I agree you can interpret it somewhat loosely/however you want as well. I got around having to interpret it as I simply said, "See included course descriptions."

😉

I don't know anything about Wilson Hill.

So, in your course descriptions you included all that stuff about instructor/student interaction and meeting times?

[RootAnn]

Frequency of class (once per week, twice per week) and size of the class (under 10 for foreign languages, for example or one-on-one) were common inclusions, yes.

Though I will admit to not including any grading criteria in my descriptions like some people do. :)

[Mom0012]

3 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Frequency of class (once per week, twice per week) and size of the class (under 10 for foreign languages, for example or one-on-one) were common inclusions, yes.

Though I will admit to not including any grading criteria in my descriptions like some people do. 🙂

I have a little blurb after each class taken by an outside provider that tells whether it was an in-person or online class, how often it met, how many other students were in the class and how frequently my student interacted with the other students and with the teacher.

I was reluctant to add all this info after many of my course descriptions, but in the end, I decided it was info that would be beneficial to my student. I *think* stereotypes about homeschooling are waning, but I wanted to make it obvious that my student can work with others.

 

[EKS]

On 9/10/2019 at 9:22 AM, RootAnn said:

Frequency of class (once per week, twice per week) and size of the class (under 10 for foreign languages, for example or one-on-one) were common inclusions, yes.

Though I will admit to not including any grading criteria in my descriptions like some people do. 🙂

I don't include anything about output or grading criteria.  I figure that's just opening up a can of worms.