New Puppy we are considering! Need list to buy and questions! UPDATE !!! SEPT 4, May 3 - PICTURES!!!

[sheryl]

DH and I adopted our first lab March 1991 when she was about 8 weeks.  She lived to 11 y 11 m.  We were heart-broken as this was our first baby - even though a canine fur ball! LOL!   Our daughter was born in 1999 and B, our English lab, passed away Dec 2002 (if my memory is right).  We waited a year and adopted our 2nd English lab (well, we were told English but we found out she had more field in her lol) Nov 2003 and J passed away Dec 2016.  All of that to say that over almost 30 years we've had labs but it's been almost 3 years this Dec.   (And, our beautiful Ragdoll passed away this past April).

What are the essentials?  LOVE - plenty of that     🙂

Bed - what kind?  The soft, fluffy or do you go ahead and buy the ortho/supportive ones knowing labs are big?  
Bowls - on floor or raised?  We had bowls on floor for our labs but everyone seems to have the bowls raised on that platform thing (what's it called?).
Collar - what kind?  We've always just bought the standard web with insert tab to lock
Leash - we've used flexi-leashes (original, no knock offs) Is there a better leash?
Harness - to harness or not to harness that is the question.  Which one?  
Food - BIG QUESTION - which one is good.  We'll not be able to spend $100 a week but I don't believe on buying the cheapest either.  Quality costs!  I think I bought B/J 40 lb bag every 3--4 weeks.  
           Wet or dry?  Brands, please!!!!!!!!!!
Old towels for cleaning paws
Will buy a toys but that can wait for the moment
Monthly preventative
For vet techs - this puppy we're seeing tomorrow, Tuesday will be 9 weeks.  What are the vet bills AFTER 9 weeks.  I need to budget this.  

We have flea comb, furnamator or whatever it's called, bowls for floor from last lab which we could use to tide us over until later, collar and leash from B and J (our first 2 labs).  

ETA:  Crate - which one?  We didn't really crate our labs.  So many of our customers use crates.  At what age is a dog potty trained?   How often do you take a 4 -5 month old lab puppy out to go potty in a 24 hour period?   Breakfast time say 8 am, dinner time say 6 pm and bedtime say 10 pm.  Adding 12 -1 for mid-day.  What other times during a 24 hour time slot would that puppy "might" need to go out - again 4-5 month old puppy.

Edited May 4, 2020 by sheryl

[MercyA]

Congratulations! Just a quick note to say I highly, highly recommend this type of tag:

https://www.collartags.com/

They are guaranteed to be legible for life. They slide on the collar--no dangling tags to get caught on things! I have used this company for tags for years and adore them. You can buy a good quality collar right along with the tag if you want. 

ETA: These are the same product as Boomerang Tags--just a new website!

Edited August 21, 2019 by MercyA

[sheryl]

5 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Congratulations! Just a quick note to say I highly, highly recommend this type of tag:

https://www.collartags.com/

They are guaranteed to be legible for life. They slide on the collar--no dangling tags to get caught on things! I have used this company for tags for years and adore them. You can buy a good quality collar right along with the tag if you want. 

So much prettier than the others.  This is a definite.  Thanks!   

[Selkie]

My best advice on lab puppies is to get two of them.😁 We have two English labs, a brother and a sister, and watching them grow up together has been so much fun. They are two years old now and have always been the best of friends. Whenever they are separated for a short time (like if one of them has a vet appt.), they are just absolutely overjoyed to be reunited - it is really sweet. 

I find lab puppies to be pretty low maintenance compared to some other breeds, so having two at once wasn't that much more work than having just one.

[sheryl]

3 minutes ago, Selkie said:

My best advice on lab puppies is to get two of them.😁 We have two English labs, a brother and a sister, and watching them grow up together has been so much fun. They are two years old now and have always been the best of friends. Whenever they are separated for a short time (like if one of them has a vet appt.), they are just absolutely overjoyed to be reunited - it is really sweet. 

I find lab puppies to be pretty low maintenance compared to some other breeds, so having two at once wasn't that much more work than having just one.

Yes, right!  I wish we could buy 2 right now.  It's beautiful to see 1 black, 1 yellow and 1 chocolate lab all lined up/posing!  🙂   This pure-bred for championship quality parent/s is expensive and we can only budget in 1 right now.  I would like a 2nd dog but rescue one if the future for a companion to our little lab puppy.  

[MercyA]

3 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

 Boomerang tags are also high quality. They are my favorite. These are also online.

Boomerang tags and CollarTags are one and the same. CollarTags is the new updated website, but the old Boomerang website is still up as well. They are the best!

ETA: And we always use harnesses for walking, too. So much more comfortable for the dog and better for their throat and back. You can't buy better [in terms of durability] than Lupine, IMO, and they come in all sorts of fun patterns and colors. I might buy a less expensive one for a little puppy, though, since he will soon outgrow it! 

Edited August 19, 2019 by MercyA

[MercyA]

On 8/19/2019 at 8:39 AM, sheryl said:

...

Which bed is the best depends so much on the dog and his own preferences. Kuranda beds are elevated and pretty much indestructible! They are easy to keep clean. I like to use a soft cover on mine. I would not buy a stuffed bed for a puppy. Too tempting for chewing (even for some adult dogs!) We have two crates for my dog and we line them with fluffy mink baby blankets. She often would rather rest in one of her crates during the day than on her Kuranda bed. Of course she likes our beds and the sofa, too. 🙂 

I always elevate my bowls on stands just because both my dogs have been prone to back problems. I think it's probably more comfortable for the dog, too. I wouldn't call the stands at all essential, though. Dogs eat so fast!

I like Flexi-Leashes. [Others do not! See comments below. A couple times over 15+ years they gave ME rope burn but I have always had little dogs and otherwise have not had a problem with them.] My husband likes plain webbed nylon leashes. Personal preference. If you want your dog to learn to heel, don't buy a Flexi-Leash. I like my dog to be able to roam somewhat freely on walks, so I use the Flexi-Leash. Don't forget a holder for poo bags! 

I just switched my dog to dry Purina ProPlan and she is doing very well on it. I fed my previous dog all wet food because he was so picky and had so many allergies. I would recommend dry food over wet for dogs (not for cats!) most of the time. It's cheaper, easier, better for their teeth, and they don't have to go outside to potty as much as a dog eating all wet food! 

I use Tri-Heart (a generic version of Heartgard) for heartworm, hookworm, and roundworm preventation and Advantix II for fleas and ticks, both monthly.

I like crates with more enclosed sides. We've had our Petmate Vari Kennel forever. Still looks like new. We also have a pink wire crate in my daughter's room, but we have a fabric cover for it to keep it warmer and more enclosed.

I personally would be sure to have some chew toys around! For a puppy, I'd get some puppy Flexichews, a Hartz Dura Play squeaky toy, and a rubber ball or racquetball. Hope this helps! 

Edited August 21, 2019 by MercyA

[MercyA]

I would take any new-to-the-home puppy out every one to two hours at first during the day. It seems like a lot but it's better than accidents in the house. He will need to go first thing in the morning, before bed at night, after eating, sometimes after getting a big drink, sometimes after playing, often after a nap. Some dogs become reliable at around 6 months or even earlier, but little dogs can take over a year (!) before they stop having accidents. I doubt you will have that problem with a lab, though. 🙂 

I like to teach my dog a phrase for urinating (we say ,"Hurry up") and for pooing (we say, "Vite, vite" [French for quickly, quickly]). Say it every time he goes and give a treat after and before long you'll be able to encourage him to go whenever you take him outside. It's very handy to be able to encourage them to go quickly if it's cold or rainy out or you're traveling!  

We also love this doorbell! Our dog took a while to learn to use it, but now uses it so faithfully and it's so handy! We would tap her foot to it and have her make it ring every time before opening the door to go out. At first my dog didn't like the hard plastic of the button so I covered it with a thin sock. I wish we would have used it from puppyhood. It would have saved me a lot of clean-up. She would look out the window when she needed to go out, but we didn't always see her do it. She still runs to the window first, then to ring her doorbell. 🙂 

Edited August 19, 2019 by MercyA

[Pen]

 Eagloo Dog Harness No Pull, Walking Pet Harness with 2 Metal Rings & Handle Adjustable Reflective Breathable Oxford Soft Padded Easy Control Front Cli https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075G8C7XM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_xQQxzmyJL1Qb2

more comfortable than Lupine, I think, but we also have a Lupine

he has an Orvis personalized and reflective collar that is softer than most others we have tried . I don’t attach leashes to it.

I don’t use Flexi due to finger injury reports

 

 

More to follow?

l

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Pen

[Pen]

The harness mentioned above isn’t technically a car harness, but we use if for in the car recently. he jumped out the window in a parking lot.  Until the harness I had been keeping windows up and child locks on.  But with the harness tied into the car I feel safer opening windows up with him inside 

 

he prefers laps and human beds, but inherited some dog beds from previous dogs 

 

he eats a variety of food kibble and raw and leftovers.    His main dog kibble is First Mate currently lamb and oats.  It is a brand good for allergy dogs. 

[Pawz4me]

Any leash is better than a Flexi Leash! Seriously. I'd use a few shoestrings tied together as a leash before I'd touch a Flexi. I absolutely detest them. But my favorite is a good quality leather leash. I have three that are probably 25 years old, soft as butter and work as good as when they were new.

Preventatives: Nexgard for fleas/ticks and Heartgard for heart worms and intestinal worms are what I use, but there are lots of good choices. I'd take your vet's advice.

I prefer harnesses over collars for leash walks, but if you don't want your dog wearing a harness 24/7 you'll need a collar for tags. Ditto CollarTags/Boomerang. They're the best. I've had dogs who wore Boomerang tags constantly for over ten years and the tags still looked brand new.

Food -- Given the current DCM issue that's being investigated I'd probably stick with something from one of the big manufacturers. I'd probably take a look at either Purina ProPlan or something by Royal Canin.

Bowls -- It's really up to you. I've always liked raised bowls for my medium/large dogs, but they're not strictly necessary.

You'll want to take puppy outside at least once an hour to begin with. The general rule that kinda sorta works for medium/large puppies is that they can hold it (while awake) one hour for each month of age. So a two month old puppy can hold it for two hours, etc. But note that "can hold it" is totally different than knowing they're supposed to hold it. For house training the more you can get them outside the better.

I wouldn't buy any bedding until puppy is well past the chewing stage. I'd use old towels or blankets. Unless you want to spend a lot of money and get something chew proof.

I prefer hard sided crates, but that's just my personal preference. The good quality wire ones are okay.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Pawz4me

[ktgrok]

11 hours ago, Selkie said:

My best advice on lab puppies is to get two of them.

Oh no! I'm glad it worked for you, but most of the time that works out TERRIBLY. They dogs bond with each other and pay more attention to each other than the owner, and totally overwhelm the owner. Trying to get two dogs to sit, potty train, heel, etc is more than most people can handle. Better to get one dog to where it is trained and well behaved and then get another dog. 

3 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

You were asking about harnesses and collars. My favorite brand is Lupine. one thing I wanted to mentioned.....

I'm a fan of attaching a lead to a harness instead of a collar. It's my own personal preference, and I don't judge anyone who leads by the collar. I just think it's more comfortable for the dog.

I also like Lupine. 

And yes, the harness is probably more comfortable for the dog to pull into...which is why i don't recommend them, lol. With a possibly 70-80lb dog you need to worry about the comfort of the human at the other end of the leash - making it nicer to pull the owner down the street is not a good idea a lot of times. (I've seen a lot of injuries, including broken bones, from big dogs pulling owners down so that's a big issue for me)

I'm okay with a harness for the first few months but after that, nope. I used to recommend the front attach harnesses but they now have been found to alter the dog's gait and that seems like a bad idea with a growing dog. 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Ktgrok

[ktgrok]

NO FLEXI! As someone else said, I'd use anything else. The injuries can be gruesome (rope burn in a big way), the dog is rewarded (with more leash) every time it pulls making teaching not pulling much more difficult, and if something happens and you drop the leash the sound of it "chasing" them makes them run even farther/harder away from you - often panicked right into the street. 

Unless you are in a big field with no one else around, and the dog is already well trained, just please no. 

6 ft cotton leash is my preference, or a soft nylon. I'm not a leather fan but I'm probably too impatient to break them in and my hands are small. It should not need padded handles, etc....the dog should not pull so hard you need some kind of cushioning Just whatever feels good in your hand. Matching the collar is always nice, lol. 

Doggie should go out as much as possible in the beginning. After waking up, after drinking, after eating, after playing.

As for expenses, they usually get vaccines every 3-4 weeks starting about 8 weeks. So 8 weeks, 12 weeks, 16 weeks. Often that 16 week visit is split in two, with the Distemper combo at the regular visit and the Rabies a week or two later, or it may be the same visit. Also plan on at least one worming but that isn't expensive. Heartworm prevention is a must, flea and tick depends on your area/needs. One of my dogs is flea allergic and on flea prevention year round, the others are not and only get it if I notice a flea - which is rare. 

Shampoo is a must - less scent is better for their sensitive noses. 

Bedding - do NOT spend a bunch of money. Go with something cheap as puppy likely will destroy it. 

Kong toys or other toys you can put part of the dog's daily food in to keep them busy. Get the puppy used to working on a kong full of food while in the crate. 

For food, find out what the breeder is feeding. Don't switch for the first few weeks. Then if you can if you want to - ProPlan isn't too bad money wise and is a good food that many breeders prefer. Easy to order off Chewy or Amazon. 

For the crate, wire is fine, or plastic, but wire is a lot cheaper and you can fold it up later for transportation or storage. Get one that has a divider so you can make it smaller at first. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Ktgrok

[sheryl]

3 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

You were asking about harnesses and collars. My favorite brand is Lupine. (And the tag mentioned above is highly recommended. Make sure to buy the right type for the type of collar you get). Boomerang tags are also high quality. They are my favorite. These are also online.

Just one thing I wanted to mentioned.....I'm a fan of attaching a lead to a harness instead of a collar. It's my own personal preference, and I don't judge anyone who leads by the collar. I just think it's more comfortable for the dog. There are times it's necessary to lead by the collar, such as when training, but generally I'm a fan of harnesses. Especially for small dogs. They have such a small trachea. Maybe they wouldn't work for everyone, but for the dogs I've owned, harnesses have been great.

Yes, we didn't use harnesses with our first 2 labs - wish we would have.   I agree that the collar is probably not the best design for a dog. 

2 hours ago, MercyA said:

Boomerang tags and CollarTags are one and the same. CollarTags is the new updated website, but the old Boomerang website is still up as well. They are the best!

ETA: And we always use harnesses for walking, too. So much more comfortable for the dog and better for their throat and back. You can't buy better [in terms of durability] than Lupine, IMO, and they come in all sorts of fun patterns and colors. I might buy a less expensive one for a little puppy, though, since he will soon outgrow it! 

RIght, as stated above, I'm sure the design of the collar is not the best.  I can see the harness as being more comfortable.  I bet you're right that a collar is not great for the dog's throat!  

2 hours ago, MercyA said:

Which bed is the best depends so much on the dog and his own preferences. Kuranda beds are elevated and pretty much indestructible! They are easy to keep clean. I like to use a soft cover on mine. I would not buy a stuffed bed for a puppy. Too tempting for chewing (even for some adult dogs!) We have two crates for my dog and we line them with fluffy mink baby blankets. She often would rather rest in one of her crates during the day than on her Kuranda bed. Of course she likes our beds and the sofa, too. 🙂 

I always elevate my bowls on stands just because both my dogs have been prone to back problems. I think it's probably more comfortable for the dog, too. I wouldn't call the stands at all essential, though. Dogs eat so fast!

I like Flexi-Leashes. My husband likes plain webbed nylon leashes. Personal preference. If you want your dog to learn to heel, don't buy a Flexi-Leash. I like my dog to be able to roam somewhat freely on walks, so I use the Flexi-Leash. Don't forget a holder for poo bags! 

I just switched my dog to dry Purina ProPlan and she is doing very well on it. I fed my previous dog all wet food because he was so picky and had so many allergies. I would recommend dry food over wet for dogs (not for cats!) most of the time. It's cheaper, easier, better for their teeth, and they don't have to go outside to potty as much as a dog eating all wet food! 

I use Tri-Heart (a generic version of Heartgard) for heartworm, hookworm, and roundworm preventation and Advantix II for fleas and ticks, both monthly.

I like crates with more enclosed sides. We've had our Petmate Vari Kennel forever. Still looks like new. We also have a pink wire crate in my daughter's room, but we have a fabric cover for it to keep it warmer and more enclosed.

I personally would be sure to have some chew toys around! For a puppy, I'd get some puppy Flexichews, a Hartz Dura Play squeaky toy, and a tennis ball. 🙂 

Hope this helps! 

Thanks so much for the links!  The mink blanket sounds comfy! 🙂  Many of you are saying the same thing which I like.  I'm certain we'll lean towards a harness and old comforter for now.  I see so many people using the elevated bowls in stand.  Thanks for all those tips.  We've used flexi-leash in the past, but it doesn't teach "heel".  I'm looking for fairly high quality dog food.  We bought our first lab Purina Pro Plan and I don't think it's the best unless they've changed their recipe/ingredients.  How long do  you crate a dog?  Age?  Hours each day? 

2 hours ago, MercyA said:

I would take any new-to-the-home puppy out every one to two hours at first during the day. It seems like a lot but it's better than accidents in the house. He will need to go first thing in the morning, before bed at night, after eating, sometimes after getting a big drink, sometimes after playing, often after a nap. Some dogs become reliable at around 6 months or even earlier, but little dogs can take over a year (!) before they stop having accidents. I doubt you will have that problem with a lab, though. 🙂 

I like to teach my dog a phrase for urinating (we say ,"Hurry up") and for pooing (we say, "Vite, vite" [French for quickly, quickly]). Say it every time he goes and give a treat after and before long you'll be able to encourage him to go whenever you take him outside. It's very handy to be able to encourage them to go quickly if it's cold or rainy out or you're traveling!  

We also love this doorbell! Our dog took a while to learn to use it, but now uses it so faithfully and it's so handy! We would tap her foot to it and have her make it ring every time before opening the door to go out. At first my dog didn't like the hard plastic of the button so I covered it with a thin sock. I wish we would have used it from puppyhood. It would have saved me a lot of clean-up. She would look out the window when she needed to go out, but we didn't always see her do it. She still runs to the window first, then to ring her doorbell. 🙂 

I like your phrases.  It makes sense to discern b/t both pottys.  We made the mistake with our lab of saying potty for both.  I haven't looked at your doorbell yet.  Cute idea.  I do like your idea of the foreign words for simple commands. 

[sheryl]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 Eagloo Dog Harness No Pull, Walking Pet Harness with 2 Metal Rings & Handle Adjustable Reflective Breathable Oxford Soft Padded Easy Control Front Cli https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075G8C7XM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_xQQxzmyJL1Qb2

more comfortable than Lupine, I think, but we also have a Lupine

he has an Orvis personalized and reflective collar that is softer than most others we have tried . I don’t attach leashes to it.

I don’t use Flexi due to finger injury reports

 

 

More to follow?

l

OK, Pen, I LIKE that harness!  How many different types of harnesses are there for dogs?  I thought a harness was a harness.  Can you buy a harness that serves walking and car? 

1 hour ago, Pen said:

The harness mentioned above isn’t technically a car harness, but we use if for in the car recently. he jumped out the window in a parking lot.  Until the harness I had been keeping windows up and child locks on.  But with the harness tied into the car I feel safer opening windows up with him inside 

 

he prefers laps and human beds, but inherited some dog beds from previous dogs 

 

he eats a variety of food kibble and raw and leftovers.    His main dog kibble is First Mate currently lamb and oats.  It is a brand good for allergy dogs. 

That must've been scary he jumped out the window.  I will probably use an old comforter for now - taking other opinions from this post. 

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

Any leash is better than a Flexi Leash! Seriously. I'd use a few shoestrings tied together as a leash before I'd touch a Flexi. I absolutely detest them. But my favorite is a good quality leather leash. I have three that are probably 25 years old, soft as butter and work as good as when they were new.

Preventatives: Nexgard for fleas/ticks and Heartgard for heart worms and intestinal worms are what I use, but there are lots of good choices. I'd take your vet's advice.

I prefer harnesses over collars for leash walks, but if you don't want your dog wearing a harness 24/7 you'll need a collar for tags. Ditto CollarTags/Boomerang. They're the best. I've had dogs who wore Boomerang tags constantly for over ten years and the tags still looked brand new.

Food -- Given the current DCM issue that's being investigated I'd probably stick with something from one of the big manufacturers. I'd probably take a look at either Purina ProPlan or something by Royal Canin.

Bowls -- It's really up to you. I've always liked raised bowls for my medium/large dogs, but they're not strictly necessary.

You'll want to take puppy outside at least once an hour to begin with. The general rule that kinda sorta works for medium/large puppies if that they can hold it (while awake) one hour for each month of age. So a two month old puppy can hold it for two hours, etc. But note that "can hold it" is totally different than knowing they're supposed to hold it. For house training the more you can get them outside the better.

I wouldn't buy any bedding until puppy is well past the chewing stage. I'd use old towels or blankets. Unless you want to spend a lot of money and get something chew proof.

I prefer hard sided crates, but that's just my personal preference. The good quality wire ones are okay.

I love the shoestring idea!  I know you're also an animal lover.  What did I miss though?  Tell me "why" flexi leashes are bad.  I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the idea of a leather strap/leash.   Will use a harness.  But, I won't keep it on her 24/7.  I'll put a collar on her in the house, I guess.  And, usually our labs wear a bandana. 🙂   As I told a PP, we used PPP almost 30 years ago for our 1st lab.  I don't think the quality is there. Or, it wasn't then.  Maybe it's improved. ??? Will get the raised bowls.  

Here's an idea.  I know a man who has a 9 year old Golden Retriever.   He puts a tennis ball in the dry food bowl.  The ball stays there day in and day out.  He adds dry food into the bowl.  His golden "takes time" to eat around the ball.  SMART!  I will probably do that too! 

THANKS for the "rule".  I did not know this but do now thanks to you.  So, should I crate this furry girl at night?  And put down a pee pee pad?  

For bedding for now, I'll use an old comforter.  

[sheryl]

28 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Oh no! I'm glad it worked for you, but most of the time that works out TERRIBLY. They dogs bond with each other and pay more attention to each other than the owner, and totally overwhelm the owner. Trying to get two dogs to sit, potty train, heel, etc is more than most people can handle. Better to get one dog to where it is trained and well behaved and then get another dog. 

I also like Lupine. 

And yes, the harness is probably more comfortable for the dog to pull into...which is why i don't recommend them, lol. With a possibly 70-80lb dog you need to worry about the comfort of the human at the other end of the leash - making it nicer to pull the owner down the street is not a good idea a lot of times. (I've seen a lot of injuries, including broken bones, from big dogs pulling owners down so that's a big issue for me)

 

I wouldn't get 2 dogs at once.  I think that would be overwhelming for all concerned.  I'd consider buying another a few years from now.  Katie, I don't understand above.  Please explain.  

21 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

NO FLEXI! As someone else said, I'd use anything else. The injuries can be gruesome (rope burn in a big way), the dog is rewarded (with more leash) every time it pulls making teaching not pulling much more difficult, and if something happens and you drop the leash the sound of it "chasing" them makes them run even farther/harder away from you - often panicked right into the street. 

Unless you are in a big field with no one else around, and the dog is already well trained, just please no. 

6 ft cotton leash is my preference, or a soft nylon. I'm not a leather fan but I'm probably too impatient to break them in and my hands are small. It should not need padded handles, etc....the dog should not pull so hard you need some kind of cushioning Just whatever feels good in your hand. Matching the collar is always nice, lol. 

Doggie should go out as much as possible in the beginning. After waking up, after drinking, after eating, after playing.

As for expenses, they usually get vaccines every 3-4 weeks starting about 8 weeks. So 8 weeks, 12 weeks, 16 weeks. Often that 16 week visit is split in two, with the Distemper combo at the regular visit and the Rabies a week or two later, or it may be the same visit. Also plan on at least one worming but that isn't expensive. Heartworm prevention is a must, flea and tick depends on your area/needs. One of my dogs is flea allergic and on flea prevention year round, the others are not and only get it if I notice a flea - which is rare. 

Shampoo is a must - less scent is better for their sensitive noses. 

Bedding - do NOT spend a bunch of money. Go with something cheap as puppy likely will destroy it. 

Kong toys or other toys you can put part of the dog's daily food in to keep them busy. Get the puppy used to working on a kong full of food while in the crate. 

For food, find out what the breeder is feeding. Don't switch for the first few weeks. Then if you can if you want to - ProPlan isn't too bad money wise and is a good food that many breeders prefer. Easy to order off Chewy or Amazon. 

For the crate, wire is fine, or plastic, but wire is a lot cheaper and you can fold it up later for transportation or storage. Get one that has a divider so you can make it smaller at first. 

Ohhh, yes, flexi-leashes can cause rope burns.  They used to have the "round cord" which I think was the original and then they produced the flat strap - probably had complaints with the round cord.  Either one does get tangled up sometimes.  No, we're in the city.  After reading these responses, I'm using a harness, possibly leather leash for walking and inside she'll wear a collar and/or bandana.  We usually buy oatmeal shampoo which is sensitive on them.  Bedding - that what others have said and will use old comforter.  Kong toys and nylabone material?  Did Pro Plan come out with a new recipe?  Please see my other replies on PPP.   Excellent idea on the wire crate - sectioning off due to size.  

[ktgrok]

The reason I don't like harnesses is that the dog is already stronger than you and making it easier and more comfortable for the dog to pull you just increases their advantage and I've seen too many humans pulled down, injured, broken bones, etc. When the dog is bigger and stronger than you I'm more worried about YOUR comfort than the dog's comfort. If they are not pulling then the collar is plenty comfortable - there should be zero pressure on it at all. If they ARE pulling, I see no point in making that nicer for them, when you don't want them doing it in the first place. 

Now, with a 9 week old puppy, sure. But a half grown dog or full size lab? No, I don't want to give up that leverage in case I need it. Harnesses are made for pulling. I don't want my dog pulling. I want the leash loose, which is comfortable for both of us with a regular collar. 

It's also hard to use a harness for communication as to which direction to go, etc, particularly if it is hooked in the back. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Ktgrok

[Pen]

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE PHOTO IT SHOWS PErsonal Information  ON HIS HARNESS! With the harness for a walk— the top clip seems to work better than the front “no pull” clip 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Pen

[Pen]

So now that I did that we have to go somewhere!

 

[Pen]

Hanging on gate are two leashes for in case of emergency need—the red is a Lupine.  

For serious walk purposes I prefer this type (but not for little puppies) — looks like a torture device but really isn’t.  Ours is a high quality Sprenger prong collar — with some rubber tips for more gentle ness.  He’s 3rd dog to use it—other than loss of parts when sized down for smaller dog it’s well made.  I had a less good brand one fall apart. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Pen

[Pen]

SlowTon Dog Seatbelt, 2 Pack Pet Car Seat Belt Headrest Restraint Adjustable Puppy Safety Seat Belt with Elastic Bungee and Reflective Stripe Connect with Dog Harness in Vehicle for Travel Daily Use https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DC45HKX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_1-1wDb96Z27T9

is what I am using to connect dog harness to truck — it says for headrest, but I have it on a latch for child seat.   Some connect into seat belt systems — but not a fit for our vehicle.  

[Pen]

Favorite leash (though currently ours is missing—gotta Declutter!!!) particularly for PNW where we live — doesn’t slip in rain .  

http://www.gripleash.com/

Edited August 20, 2019 by Pen

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, sheryl said:

I'm looking for fairly high quality dog food.  We bought our first lab Purina Pro Plan and I don't think it's the best unless they've changed their recipe/ingredients.  How long do  you crate a dog?  Age?  Hours each day? 

First question: there is concern right now that novel ingredients and/or less well-tested and -developed pet food from smaller companies may be leading to heart problems in dogs. See this thread and this site. While more research is being done, some are recommending that pet owners choose foods from the following companies: Purina, Hills, Eukanuba, and Royal Canin. I am usually very picky about ingredients. I went with Purina ProPlan because it didn't contain dyes or artificial preservatives and had chicken as the first ingredient. I also liked the protein content (29%). I never thought I'd buy a food that contained corn or byproducts, but after reading lots of ingredient lists, I still believe it's one of my best options at this time. My dog is doing much better on it that she was on the Nutro food she was eating. The Nutro food didn't contain corn or byproducts, but it DID contain split peas as the third ingredient. I have no idea why I thought that was a good idea. Her stool was loose and her tummy kept getting upset. I feel foolish now!

Second question: we crate our dogs all night in our bedrooms. They look forward to bedtime. We brought our current dog home at about 4 months and she was always able to sleep through the night. I've never had a younger puppy.  While we were house training her, we put her in the crate during the day when someone couldn't keep an eye on her. I wouldn't recommend crating a puppy during the day for more than maybe an hour at a time if necessary. Their bladder can't handle it and of course they'd much rather be with you!  

Our dog can't be trusted to not chew things up while we're gone, so she is also crated whenever we are all out of the house. We all work or are schooled at home so someone is home most of the time. I'm comfortable leaving her crated occasionally (definitely not every day!) for four or five hours, but she is an adult dog. I wouldn't leave a puppy in a crate that long during the day.

[Lori D.]

It really will vary depending on the puppy, but... We puppy sit for the Guide Dogs for the Blind puppy raising group in our town, which is most labs, some Golden Retrievers, and a few crosses, so we see a lot of labs, from 8-weeks old until they go back to Guide Dogs at age 14-18 months. We've also "puppy sat" for a working Guide Dog, a retired Guide Dog, and a few "career changes" (didn't make it all the way through the program and were adopted by their raisers). As puppy sitters, we learn all of the training and use all the equipment required for use by the raisers to maintain consistent training for the dogs.

Guide Dog puppy raisers get the puppies at age 8-12 weeks, and immediately start working on crate training, relieving/house training, and some other basic training. It totally depends on the dog, but most of the labs seem to be crate trained by about 4 months/16-18 weeks, and house trained by a similar time frame. We also use a relieving command, which is VERY useful! At 8 weeks, we take them outside for relieving (during the day) about every 45 minutes to an hour (unless the puppy "tanks" (i.e. loads up on water), in which case you'd better spend the next 2 hours outside, or plan on taking the puppy out every 15 minutes!!!). That slowly extends to about every 2 hours by about 4 months, and by about 6 months, they can usually hold it for 4-5 hours during the day with no problems. As far as night time: the baby puppies (8-weeks to 6 months) are in the closed crate at night, and when they whimper you get them out, pick them up and run outside, and praise for relieving. For the very young puppies you end up taking them out several times a night, but they rapidly move to being able to hold it overnight for about 6-8 hours by about 12 weeks old (if you didn't let them over-drink right before bed), and by 4 months, if you've been diligent and consistent, and don't make the puppy wait too long, house training is pretty much done.

For a bed -- totallyagreeing with poster up-thread -- NO bed until after the chewing stage! Crate train and make the crate their safe and comfortable night time place, and then you can also make it a pleasant and safe place when you have to leave the dog alone during the day. But around 8 months old or older, you can start thinking about a bed. The dogs all seem to like one with bolster sides. <--- we got that one for our Golden Retriever/Lab mix, and at night, it rests on top of one of those firm memory foam type flat mat type of dog beds, and during the day, we drag the fluffy one with bolster sides out in the living room. The bolster sides help give them more of a "nest" or "den" feel, especially when we tuck the dog's bed between my side of the bed, the wall and nightstand, so 3 sides of a "den".

For a crate, we got this collapsible wire crate, but have never had to break it down/transport it. If you will be traveling with the dog a lot, you might prefer the hard shell enclosed plastic crate (airplane crate), as it may fit better in a car, and, of course, allow your dog to travel by plane if needed.

For collars, Guide Dogs provides the collars they require the raisers to use -- webbing with a belt-style buckle (my guess is so that there is no chance of the other style of buckle popping open if not closed properly, and to easily adjust collar size as the puppy grows). For the leash: puppies (and adult dogs) being raised for Guide Dogs use this style of leather leash that has two extra clips so you can adjust the leash length. It works very well. The raisers also use a webbing leash for the baby puppies at home to get them used to a leash, before they are allowed out (after all their shots, at 17 weeks). Please, please, please do NOT go with a retractable leash! Labs especially are strong pullers, and retractable leashes are accidents waiting to happen. And SOOOOO NOT helpful in keeping your dog under control and lunging at other dogs when out for a walk!!!

Because the puppies are trained immediately with a positive method (handler closely watches the puppy and marks the good choice/behavior with the word "Nice!" and reward with a piece of kibble), and because puppies "catch on" very early that staying at your side with a loose leash is a fantastic place to be (lots of "Nice!" and kibble!), Guide Dogs has us use a gentle leader, which is not pulling on the dog's face, because they are walking with a loose leash. If the plan is a more relaxed training/walking approach, then a harness of some sort might be the way to go. I have no experience with harnesses.

For riding in the car, the Guide Dog protocol is for the puppy to ride in a crate when small, and when older, always on the floor of the back seat (if possible), or floor of the front seat at the feet of the (not-driving) handler. Less chance of getting thrown around with a sudden stop, or entangled/choked with seatbelts.

DEFINITELY get some chew toys right off the bat -- you want to have a handful of things scattered around so you can always grab one and give the puppy something they are allowed to chew on. Nylabones of different shapes are great. This jack-shaped one has been a big hit with all the Guide Dog puppies we have sat for. Also, the Y-shaped one, knobby ones, bone-shaped, etc. And ice cubes! Those make great crunchy treats as a quick substitute for puppy trying to chew on a shoe, lol.

All of the Guide Dog puppies are on Purina Pro Plan, which gets good ratings. If you have a dog who is a "gulper", and you need to slow them down, you can get a "puzzle bowl", so they have to work to get kibble a bit at a time, rather than able to reach into the bowl and gulp a big mouthful at a time.

I would not give a tennis ball to any puppy -- first thing they do is try and "skin it" and eat the fuzzy covering of the ball, and you don't want their insides binding up with that material. I would wait until the puppy is about 6-8 months old and introduce the ball as a retrieving game, and put it away at the end of the game.

While I know you're not planning on raising a dog with service dog level of training (LOL!), you might find the training methods helpful. See here for the guide to the positive reward technique training used by Guide Dog puppy raisers and puppy sitters.

And -- congrats on getting a new 4-footed furry family member! (:D Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Lori D.

[Liz CA]

On the topic of beds...we had heavy, big mastiffs up to 140lb and we got children's crib mattresses for beds. You can even get inexpensive sheets for it to wash.  Boxer girl has one too.  Garage sales with baby items is one way to get them.

[Pawz4me]

I don't like Flexis because:

(1) The potential for injury. That's mostly with the corded ones, but it happens with the belted ones, too. Because they take so much practice to control the length quickly and effectively, I've seen SO many people get tangled and tripped by them, and seen both the corded and belted ones get wrapped around humans' and dogs' legs, hopelessly tangled in other dogs' leashes, etc.

(2) I've known numerous situations where the dog walker dropped the leash, the dog takes off and that dang hard plastic handle clanks and bounces along behind and spooks the dog, and it runs harder and faster to try to get away from it. Not good.

(3) Lack of ability to control the dog. It's simply a lot harder to control a dog effectively with a Flexi than with a more traditional four or six foot leash. Unless a dog is super, super well trained to voice commands you need a leash that will provide some degree of control. A Flexi cannot do that.

Overall they're just a recipe for disaster, IMO. They can be shortened quickly and effectively and some people do use them responsibly (I'm sure @MercyA is one of those), but . . . most people don't or can't, especially with larger, stronger dogs.

I hear the notion repeated over and over that dogs tend to pull more with harnesses than with collars. I haven't found that to be true. A dog who wants to pull will pull (and usually pull HARD) regardless of what device he's wearing. I feel that harnesses give me more control. Now maybe that's my personal quirk or maybe it's generally true. IDK. But for most dogs they work way better for me than collars. And other than the mesh type "comfy" harnesses most of them provide some mechanism (even just an "O" ring) where a leash can be attached in front. And that provides lots of control.

Ditto what @Pen said about prong collars. They look abusive but they're not and they're like instant power steering. Head harnesses like Gentle Leaders absolutely work, but you have to be careful to not whip the dog's neck around abruptly. Lots of potential for injury there. A prong collar is relatively idiot proof.

ETA: About crating--I strongly urge people to crate train. There's no puppy who is trustworthy to be left unsupervised and not chew on dangerous things like electrical cords (not to mention damaging furniture, chewing up pillows, etc.). Sure you can use a baby gate and puppy proof a laundry room, bathroom, etc. But being crated is one of those things that all dogs need to be familiar with. It's a rare dog who at some point doesn't have to spend at least a few hours at a vet's office. And most of that time will be spent in a crate-like kennel. Better for them to have some experience with it than not. Our Shih Tzu is almost eight years old and hasn't been crated regularly in a long, long time. I still put him in one occasionally just to refresh his memory. To me being familiar with/able to behave in a crate is an essential life skill for a dog, just like an excellent recall or loose leash walking.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Pawz4me

[ktgrok]

Thirding that when doggie is older prong collars are the safest, most idiot proof training collar. They look mean but looks are deceiving - they offer very fine control but more than that they are easy to use to communicate to the dog. A slight movement can give the dog instant feedback. And unlike buckle collars and slip collars and such there is no risk of trachea damage. 

For crate training yes! Every dog should be comfortable in a crate in case they need to go to a groomer, the vet office, or be on cage rest due to an injury, etc. It also makes it easier to bring your dog with you visitint/traveling as people will be more welcoming if you can crate your dog. 

And do NOT make the mistake of only crating the dog when you leave. It teaches the dog that crate = you leaving = negative and is a good way to teach the dog to hate the crate. My puppies spend TONS of time in the crate when young, mainly because they sleep so much at that age and they may as well learn to associate sleeping/relaxing with the crate. And I give the best treats and toys in the crate. I'm actually a sucker who moves the darned thing twice a day - I put it in the main room during the day so puppy can be in the crate but still around people, and then in the bedroom at night by my bed so they can smell me while they settle down. 

[Pawz4me]

13 hours ago, sheryl said:

 As I told a PP, we used PPP almost 30 years ago for our 1st lab.  I don't think the quality is there. Or, it wasn't then.  Maybe it's improved. ??? Will get the raised bowls.  

There is a known issue since late last year of otherwise healthy dogs being diagnosed with dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM). It's a not uncommon condition in a few breeds, but last year veterinary cardiologists noticed an increase in diagnoses in younger dogs and in breeds that aren't normally very susceptible to it. It was enough of an increase that it really got their attention. There are cases where multiple dogs within a household who are unrelated or different breeds/mixes have been diagnosed with it. The "why" of it is still unknown, but researchers are currently thinking that for whatever reason(s) the problem seems to be traceable to boutique foods (smaller manufacturers), and particularly those foods that are grain free, contain peas or lentils, and/or have exotic sources of protein. You can read all about it at this site. The issue has the dog food community paying attention, and thinking that perhaps some re-evaluation of what constitutes a "good" food is in order.

That's certainly not the be-all-end-all issue in choosing a food. But it would certainly be something I would want to consider, and at this point a food from one of the big name manufacturers seems safest in that regard. However, I admit that I've never been totally against the big dog food manufacturers. A lot of what we know about canine and feline nutrition we know because of the work those companies have done.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Pawz4me

[ktgrok]

A lot of what people think is "bad" in dog food is marketing by other dog foods, not actual science. Or even truth. Things like byproducts are actually organ meat, which is good for dogs. Corn is higher in some amino acids and fatty acids than other grains, and once it is milled/processed it is very digestible. Legumes may interfere with absorption of nutrients in the gut, etc. 

 

[Spy Car]

I'd strongly advise against the "Furninator." These devices cut the (outer) guardian hair which is a bad thing. Instead get a brush that will only reduce the undercoat.

Add me those those who are against harnesses. Dog's natural inclination is to pull against a harness. An adult lab will be strong. *If* necessary the prong collars are better as a dog matures. Best to start informal leash training from the get-go, giving a pup a high value treat for staying at a heel. Combine with a command word and praise. If properly trained, a prong is not necessary.

Raised bowls are no longer suggested. It raises risks of GVD (bloat/torsion) instead of lowering them as first thought.

If you are going to feed kibble, aim for a formula that is at least 30/20 with minimal plant proteins. Be aware of the possible risk from peas/legumes.

Higher protein/higher fat food fed in moderation will help keep a Labs weight down. Especially important in a breed prone to obesity. Keep puppy on the lean side to protect joints. Vital!

Another against flex leashes, for a host of reasons. Get a fixed leash.

Against quick release collars. These can fail too easily. Get a cheap one when they are small that has a real buckle.

A pup can be potty trained almost instantly if you are vigilant, aware of the signs, get pup outside immediately. Use a command word. treat, and praise when pup goes outside. Human failure can extend this simple process. Dogs do not like to soil their own spaces. Use that trait to house train.

Best,

Bill

 

 

[sheryl]

On 8/19/2019 at 9:18 PM, Ktgrok said:

The reason I don't like harnesses is that the dog is already stronger than you and making it easier and more comfortable for the dog to pull you just increases their advantage and I've seen too many humans pulled down, injured, broken bones, etc. When the dog is bigger and stronger than you I'm more worried about YOUR comfort than the dog's comfort. If they are not pulling then the collar is plenty comfortable - there should be zero pressure on it at all. If they ARE pulling, I see no point in making that nicer for them, when you don't want them doing it in the first place. 

Now, with a 9 week old puppy, sure. But a half grown dog or full size lab? No, I don't want to give up that leverage in case I need it. Harnesses are made for pulling. I don't want my dog pulling. I want the leash loose, which is comfortable for both of us with a regular collar. 

It's also hard to use a harness for communication as to which direction to go, etc, particularly if it is hooked in the back. 

I'll combine this one with another of yours/others at the end. 🙂

[sheryl]

On 8/19/2019 at 10:47 PM, Pen said:

Hanging on gate are two leashes for in case of emergency need—the red is a Lupine.  

For serious walk purposes I prefer this type (but not for little puppies) — looks like a torture device but really isn’t.  Ours is a high quality Sprenger prong collar — with some rubber tips for more gentle ness.  He’s 3rd dog to use it—other than loss of parts when sized down for smaller dog it’s well made.  I had a less good brand one fall apart. 

 

 

 

 

 

Beautiful lab in your other post.  I'll refer to this accessory when I reply to one of Katie's down thread.  🙂

[sheryl]

On 8/19/2019 at 10:51 PM, Pen said:

SlowTon Dog Seatbelt, 2 Pack Pet Car Seat Belt Headrest Restraint Adjustable Puppy Safety Seat Belt with Elastic Bungee and Reflective Stripe Connect with Dog Harness in Vehicle for Travel Daily Use https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DC45HKX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_1-1wDb96Z27T9

is what I am using to connect dog harness to truck — it says for headrest, but I have it on a latch for child seat.   Some connect into seat belt systems — but not a fit for our vehicle.  

Wow, I didn't even know that existed.   Thanks for sharing!   And, the leash - got it.  It's "no slip".  I brought up your link.  They are a bit hard to see but maybe I can find another pic on another site.  Is it rubberized?  Does it flake off with use over time?  

Edited August 21, 2019 by sheryl

[sheryl]

On 8/20/2019 at 2:22 AM, Liz CA said:

On the topic of beds...we had heavy, big mastiffs up to 140lb and we got children's crib mattresses for beds. You can even get inexpensive sheets for it to wash.  Boxer girl has one too.  Garage sales with baby items is one way to get them.

Thanks!  Great idea!

20 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

A lot of what people think is "bad" in dog food is marketing by other dog foods, not actual science. Or even truth. Things like byproducts are actually organ meat, which is good for dogs. Corn is higher in some amino acids and fatty acids than other grains, and once it is milled/processed it is very digestible. Legumes may interfere with absorption of nutrients in the gut, etc. 

 

Good point, Katie!   Thanks!  Maybe PPP has upped their quality or maybe I've been mistaken in the past.  I'll reconsider!  Thanks!

[Pen]

10 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Wow, I didn't even know that existed.   Thanks for sharing!   And, the leash - got it.  It's "no slip".  I brought up your link.  They are a bit hard to see but maybe I can find another pic on another site.  Is it rubberized?  Does it flake off with use over time?  

 

The rubber seems sort of interwoven rather than a coating on top.  There has been some wear especially from when a foot long dangly Tab type has been dragged along ground and through brush and briar. But not worn out.  Edges break, but it’s still embedded in the fabric.  Sort of  like an athletic sock top that starts having little rubber ends sticking out—  

I First got a Gripper for a 120lb (muscular not fat) untrained male Rottweiler rescue maybe around 2000-2002. Got an additional one that allowed looping 1 around my waist and connecting another to it for hands free use, and the little Tab one.  I like the rings that allow them to connect in sequence to be longer or shorter total (sort of like the leather one that Lori linked) .   Or even to use 3 leashes to attach two dogs V’d from a single handle.   If I come to it (them) I’ll take a photo.  

Now that I know you saw it I deleted the pic of harness on dog that showed some name, phone number stuff. 

 

For a young puppy I only use lightweight nylon line or lightweight nylon leash and very light nylon harness or collar.  

I try to teach walking with me (“heel” and more informal) without a leash.  

[sheryl]

On 8/20/2019 at 12:08 AM, Lori D. said:

It really will vary depending on the puppy, but... We puppy sit for the Guide Dogs for the Blind puppy raising group in our town, which is most labs, some Golden Retrievers, and a few crosses, so we see a lot of labs, from 8-weeks old until they go back to Guide Dogs at age 14-18 months. We've also "puppy sat" for a working Guide Dog, a retired Guide Dog, and a few "career changes" (didn't make it all the way through the program and were adopted by their raisers). As puppy sitters, we learn all of the training and use all the equipment required for use by the raisers to maintain consistent training for the dogs.

Guide Dog puppy raisers get the puppies at age 8-12 weeks, and immediately start working on crate training, relieving/house training, and some other basic training. It totally depends on the dog, but most of the labs seem to be crate trained by about 4 months/16-18 weeks, and house trained by a similar time frame. We also use a relieving command, which is VERY useful! At 8 weeks, we take them outside for relieving (during the day) about every 45 minutes to an hour (unless the puppy "tanks" (i.e. loads up on water), in which case you'd better spend the next 2 hours outside, or plan on taking the puppy out every 15 minutes!!!). That slowly extends to about every 2 hours by about 4 months, and by about 6 months, they can usually hold it for 4-5 hours during the day with no problems. As far as night time: the baby puppies (8-weeks to 6 months) are in the closed crate at night, and when they whimper you get them out, pick them up and run outside, and praise for relieving. For the very young puppies you end up taking them out several times a night, but they rapidly move to being able to hold it overnight for about 6-8 hours by about 12 weeks old (if you didn't let them over-drink right before bed), and by 4 months, if you've been diligent and consistent, and don't make the puppy wait too long, house training is pretty much done.

For a bed -- totallyagreeing with poster up-thread -- NO bed until after the chewing stage! Crate train and make the crate their safe and comfortable night time place, and then you can also make it a pleasant and safe place when you have to leave the dog alone during the day. But around 8 months old or older, you can start thinking about a bed. The dogs all seem to like one with bolster sides. <--- we got that one for our Golden Retriever/Lab mix, and at night, it rests on top of one of those firm memory foam type flat mat type of dog beds, and during the day, we drag the fluffy one with bolster sides out in the living room. The bolster sides help give them more of a "nest" or "den" feel, especially when we tuck the dog's bed between my side of the bed, the wall and nightstand, so 3 sides of a "den".

For a crate, we got this collapsible wire crate, but have never had to break it down/transport it. If you will be traveling with the dog a lot, you might prefer the hard shell enclosed plastic crate (airplane crate), as it may fit better in a car, and, of course, allow your dog to travel by plane if needed.

For collars, Guide Dogs provides the collars they require the raisers to use -- webbing with a belt-style buckle (my guess is so that there is no chance of the other style of buckle popping open if not closed properly, and to easily adjust collar size as the puppy grows). For the leash: puppies (and adult dogs) being raised for Guide Dogs use this style of leather leash that has two extra clips so you can adjust the leash length. It works very well. The raisers also use a webbing leash for the baby puppies at home to get them used to a leash, before they are allowed out (after all their shots, at 17 weeks). Please, please, please do NOT go with a retractable leash! Labs especially are strong pullers, and retractable leashes are accidents waiting to happen. And SOOOOO NOT helpful in keeping your dog under control and lunging at other dogs when out for a walk!!!

Because the puppies are trained immediately with a positive method (handler closely watches the puppy and marks the good choice/behavior with the word "Nice!" and reward with a piece of kibble), and because puppies "catch on" very early that staying at your side with a loose leash is a fantastic place to be (lots of "Nice!" and kibble!), Guide Dogs has us use a gentle leader, which is not pulling on the dog's face, because they are walking with a loose leash. If the plan is a more relaxed training/walking approach, then a harness of some sort might be the way to go. I have no experience with harnesses.

For riding in the car, the Guide Dog protocol is for the puppy to ride in a crate when small, and when older, always on the floor of the back seat (if possible), or floor of the front seat at the feet of the (not-driving) handler. Less chance of getting thrown around with a sudden stop, or entangled/choked with seatbelts.

DEFINITELY get some chew toys right off the bat -- you want to have a handful of things scattered around so you can always grab one and give the puppy something they are allowed to chew on. Nylabones of different shapes are great. This jack-shaped one has been a big hit with all the Guide Dog puppies we have sat for. Also, the Y-shaped one, knobby ones, bone-shaped, etc. And ice cubes! Those make great crunchy treats as a quick substitute for puppy trying to chew on a shoe, lol.

All of the Guide Dog puppies are on Purina Pro Plan, which gets good ratings. If you have a dog who is a "gulper", and you need to slow them down, you can get a "puzzle bowl", so they have to work to get kibble a bit at a time, rather than able to reach into the bowl and gulp a big mouthful at a time.

I would not give a tennis ball to any puppy -- first thing they do is try and "skin it" and eat the fuzzy covering of the ball, and you don't want their insides binding up with that material. I would wait until the puppy is about 6-8 months old and introduce the ball as a retrieving game, and put it away at the end of the game.

While I know you're not planning on raising a dog with service dog level of training (LOL!), you might find the training methods helpful. See here for the guide to the positive reward technique training used by Guide Dog puppy raisers and puppy sitters.

And -- congrats on getting a new 4-footed furry family member! (:D Warmest regards, Lori D.

Right, many of you are saying to wait for a bed until puppy is older.  We will wait on that.  I donate to an animal rescue group on a semi-regular basis and gave away 2 comforters.  That's ok, I'll look around for another comforter or post for one locally.  We did use a gentle leader for our 2nd lab which had more "field" in her (mix of field and English).  As I think about it now, I'm sure we did not use it correctly.  🙂   Re: dog on floor of car - is that inside or out of carrier?  Puppy in carrier and not crate?  I don't know if a crate would fit but carrier might. 

Toys - yes, I need to go shopping to have on hand.  My list is getting longer.  LOL! 🙂   Sure enough a ball in bowl for puppy does not seem like a good fit.  However, I can see where this would come in handy for an older "trained" dog.  Thanks for pointing that out  

Potty training - that's a hard one.  You've offered good "rule of thumb" and I appreciate that.  I'm guessing it does depend on breed (?) and maybe size of dog. ?   We were told to suspend drinking for the night at around 7 pm to help avoid accidents at night. 

Collar - metal buckle still best?  Boy, I must really be sucked in to marketing.  We've used the metal notch in hole in the past and moved to plastic clasp.  We'll switch back.

Rewards/training - this is hard for me.  I know I can and need to do much MUCH better in this area. 

 

 

 

[ktgrok]

I'd do a blanket folded up, not a comforter, with a puppy. Pulling the stuffing out of a comforter is SUPER fun, and then can swallow it. Plus then they learn how fun it is to chew up a bed. Cheap fleece throw blankets are pretty easy to find. 

I also really like using bath mats in the crate - easy to wash, don't move around. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Ktgrok

[Pen]

I try not to use tennis balls for dogs because their fuzz / glues supposedly bad for teeth .

our current dog (disappointingly for my Ds) is not hugely ball interested  I think he got started on them too late plus had been discouraged from getting the ball by his dog sire who was very into balls and wasn’t about to let a puppy beat him to one

Our last male before him adored balls

An open mesh type ball was manageable as a puppy fairly safely: Ours not exactly this but along these lines: JW Hol-ee Roller Original Treat Dispensing Dog Ball - Hard Natural Rubber - Assorted Colors https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DJX44/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_liuxDbSS2TZB2

never used for treats just for play   Prior dog liked to fetch it.  Current dog likes to hide and seek with it or tug with it, but will play fetch retrieve with it for awhile    Puppy can grab an edge sometimes, big dog can hold the whole ball

 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Pen

[sheryl]

On 8/20/2019 at 8:19 AM, Ktgrok said:

Thirding that when doggie is older prong collars are the safest, most idiot proof training collar. They look mean but looks are deceiving - they offer very fine control but more than that they are easy to use to communicate to the dog. A slight movement can give the dog instant feedback. And unlike buckle collars and slip collars and such there is no risk of trachea damage. 

For crate training yes! Every dog should be comfortable in a crate in case they need to go to a groomer, the vet office, or be on cage rest due to an injury, etc. It also makes it easier to bring your dog with you visitint/traveling as people will be more welcoming if you can crate your dog. 

And do NOT make the mistake of only crating the dog when you leave. It teaches the dog that crate = you leaving = negative and is a good way to teach the dog to hate the crate. My puppies spend TONS of time in the crate when young, mainly because they sleep so much at that age and they may as well learn to associate sleeping/relaxing with the crate. And I give the best treats and toys in the crate. I'm actually a sucker who moves the darned thing twice a day - I put it in the main room during the day so puppy can be in the crate but still around people, and then in the bedroom at night by my bed so they can smell me while they settle down. 

Katie, thanks for sharing your tips!  I ran these replies (collectively from this thread) past the breeder and she agrees with no harness for older dogs, prong collar helpful sometimes and crate training and what that looks like.  She does not agree with flexi leashes but with webbed leashes, leather, etc.  EXCELLENT point about not associating crate with leaving!   She (breeder) agrees with crating young puppies scattered throughout the day.  THANK YOU! 

On 8/19/2019 at 10:47 PM, Pen said:

Hanging on gate are two leashes for in case of emergency need—the red is a Lupine.  

For serious walk purposes I prefer this type (but not for little puppies) — looks like a torture device but really isn’t.  Ours is a high quality Sprenger prong collar — with some rubber tips for more gentle ness.  He’s 3rd dog to use it—other than loss of parts when sized down for smaller dog it’s well made.  I had a less good brand one fall apart. 

 

 

 

 

 

The breeder also agrees with the prong collar.  Thanks!  And, the leather leash and selt belt - thanks for those.  I've added them to my list for consideration.  

Edited August 21, 2019 by sheryl

[ktgrok]

Given that your breeder agrees with me on so much she seems incredibly wise, 🤣

[sheryl]

On 8/19/2019 at 11:39 PM, MercyA said:

First question: there is concern right now that novel ingredients and/or less well-tested and -developed pet food from smaller companies may be leading to heart problems in dogs. See this thread and this site. While more research is being done, some are recommending that pet owners choose foods from the following companies: Purina, Hills, Eukanuba, and Royal Canin. I am usually very picky about ingredients. I went with Purina ProPlan because it didn't contain dyes or artificial preservatives and had chicken as the first ingredient. I also liked the protein content (29%). I never thought I'd buy a food that contained corn or byproducts, but after reading lots of ingredient lists, I still believe it's one of my best options at this time. My dog is doing much better on it that she was on the Nutro food she was eating. The Nutro food didn't contain corn or byproducts, but it DID contain split peas as the third ingredient. I have no idea why I thought that was a good idea. Her stool was loose and her tummy kept getting upset. I feel foolish now!

Second question: we crate our dogs all night in our bedrooms. They look forward to bedtime. We brought our current dog home at about 4 months and she was always able to sleep through the night. I've never had a younger puppy.  While we were house training her, we put her in the crate during the day when someone couldn't keep an eye on her. I wouldn't recommend crating a puppy during the day for more than maybe an hour at a time if necessary. Their bladder can't handle it and of course they'd much rather be with you!  

Our dog can't be trusted to not chew things up while we're gone, so she is also crated whenever we are all out of the house. We all work or are schooled at home so someone is home most of the time. I'm comfortable leaving her crated occasionally (definitely not every day!) for four or five hours, but she is an adult dog. I wouldn't leave a puppy in a crate that long during the day.

I'll research food links later as I'm focusing on the others right now.  I'm glad you sent links.  Will read those pertaining to food in the next couple of weeks.  Thanks!  So many of you have experience with crates and I'm grateful for your insight.  I'm not an experienced crate-user but we will use one going forward. 

On 8/20/2019 at 5:06 AM, Pawz4me said:

I don't like Flexis because:

(1) The potential for injury. That's mostly with the corded ones, but it happens with the belted ones, too. Because they take so much practice to control the length quickly and effectively, I've seen SO many people get tangled and tripped by them, and seen both the corded and belted ones get wrapped around humans' and dogs' legs, hopelessly tangled in other dogs' leashes, etc.

(2) I've known numerous situations where the dog walker dropped the leash, the dog takes off and that dang hard plastic handle clanks and bounces along behind and spooks the dog, and it runs harder and faster to try to get away from it. Not good.

(3) Lack of ability to control the dog. It's simply a lot harder to control a dog effectively with a Flexi than with a more traditional four or six foot leash. Unless a dog is super, super well trained to voice commands you need a leash that will provide some degree of control. A Flexi cannot do that.

Overall they're just a recipe for disaster, IMO. They can be shortened quickly and effectively and some people do use them responsibly (I'm sure @MercyA is one of those), but . . . most people don't or can't, especially with larger, stronger dogs.

I hear the notion repeated over and over that dogs tend to pull more with harnesses than with collars. I haven't found that to be true. A dog who wants to pull will pull (and usually pull HARD) regardless of what device he's wearing. I feel that harnesses give me more control. Now maybe that's my personal quirk or maybe it's generally true. IDK. But for most dogs they work way better for me than collars. And other than the mesh type "comfy" harnesses most of them provide some mechanism (even just an "O" ring) where a leash can be attached in front. And that provides lots of control.

Ditto what @Pen said about prong collars. They look abusive but they're not and they're like instant power steering. Head harnesses like Gentle Leaders absolutely work, but you have to be careful to not whip the dog's neck around abruptly. Lots of potential for injury there. A prong collar is relatively idiot proof.

ETA: About crating--I strongly urge people to crate train. There's no puppy who is trustworthy to be left unsupervised and not chew on dangerous things like electrical cords (not to mention damaging furniture, chewing up pillows, etc.). Sure you can use a baby gate and puppy proof a laundry room, bathroom, etc. But being crated is one of those things that all dogs need to be familiar with. It's a rare dog who at some point doesn't have to spend at least a few hours at a vet's office. And most of that time will be spent in a crate-like kennel. Better for them to have some experience with it than not. Our Shih Tzu is almost eight years old and hasn't been crated regularly in a long, long time. I still put him in one occasionally just to refresh his memory. To me being familiar with/able to behave in a crate is an essential life skill for a dog, just like an excellent recall or loose leash walking.

The breeder does not like the use of flexi leashes for the same reason you cited.   I had no idea there were issues.  Thanks for sharing.  Prong collars we will consider.  Our breeder does not recommend a harness so we're back to webbed/metal notch collar and leash.  

22 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

There is a known issue since late last year of otherwise healthy dogs being diagnosed with dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM). It's a not uncommon condition in a few breeds, but last year veterinary cardiologists noticed an increase in diagnoses in younger dogs and in breeds that aren't normally very susceptible to it. It was enough of an increase that it really got their attention. There are cases where multiple dogs within a household who are unrelated or different breeds/mixes have been diagnosed with it. The "why" of it is still unknown, but researchers are currently thinking that for whatever reason(s) the problem seems to be traceable to boutique foods (smaller manufacturers), and particularly those foods that are grain free, contain peas or lentils, and/or have exotic sources of protein. You can read all about it at this site. The issue has the dog food community paying attention, and thinking that perhaps some re-evaluation of what constitutes a "good" food is in order.

That's certainly not the be-all-end-all issue in choosing a food. But it would certainly be something I would want to consider, and at this point a food from one of the big name manufacturers seems safest in that regard. However, I admit that I've never been totally against the big dog food manufacturers. A lot of what we know about canine and feline nutrition we know because of the work those companies have done.

Thanks for the link.  Will look at soon - right now focusing on other dog topics.

[sheryl]

21 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I'd strongly advise against the "Furninator." These devices cut the (outer) guardian hair which is a bad thing. Instead get a brush that will only reduce the undercoat.

Add me those those who are against harnesses. Dog's natural inclination is to pull against a harness. An adult lab will be strong. *If* necessary the prong collars are better as a dog matures. Best to start informal leash training from the get-go, giving a pup a high value treat for staying at a heel. Combine with a command word and praise. If properly trained, a prong is not necessary.

Raised bowls are no longer suggested. It raises risks of GVD (bloat/torsion) instead of lowering them as first thought.

If you are going to feed kibble, aim for a formula that is at least 30/20 with minimal plant proteins. Be aware of the possible risk from peas/legumes.

Higher protein/higher fat food fed in moderation will help keep a Labs weight down. Especially important in a breed prone to obesity. Keep puppy on the lean side to protect joints. Vital!

Another against flex leashes, for a host of reasons. Get a fixed leash.

Against quick release collars. These can fail too easily. Get a cheap one when they are small that has a real buckle.

A pup can be potty trained almost instantly if you are vigilant, aware of the signs, get pup outside immediately. Use a command word. treat, and praise when pup goes outside. Human failure can extend this simple process. Dogs do not like to soil their own spaces. Use that trait to house train.

Best,

Bill

 

 

Thanks, Bill, for info. on furminator and bowls/stand - I had no idea!  I've learned in this thread that flexi leashes are not the way to go and our breeder is against harnesses for the same reason as you and others on this thread.  Yep, back to the metal notch collar!  🙂  

21 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

We’ve used the Flexi since our GR was 8 weeks old. Never had a problem. If we want her to be able to wander ahead and sniff in the bushes, we let it out full length. If she needs to be close to us, then we adjust and lock it. Easy peasy, as long as the walker stays aware.That’s the whole purpose of the  lock. A dog can pull their owner unnecessarily no matter what type of leash. A dog can tangle around another person on any length  leash. Leashes need to be replaced when worn or thin, or if the clasps appear loose/weak. It’s up to the human in charge to react to the situation appropriately. When in public spaces or wilder areas it’s just common sense to keep a dog’s lead closer. But hey, I’ve been walking our dog in state parks, along cliffs and waterfalls, and have seen numerous parents allowing their kids to run ahead in flip flops,  pushing and laughing as they race along the often wet, often slippery trails, forcing the well behaved out of their way. The gene pool is occasionally no more than a puddle, in dogs and humans alike. Cats are a totally different story.

ETA she never enjoyed her crate at night. When she was a few months old we took her on a trip and left it at home; she slept on the floor next to our bed and was perfect. She tended to carry her blankets and smaller dog-beds all over the house, so we got a baby mattress that slides under the bed. She favors the backrest pillows over all, for resting and “ entertainment”. This one’s named Mr.Minty

AWW, thanks for sharing doggie pic.  Right, any leash can get tangled up.  I think what many here and in public are saying is that it happens more frequently and more easily with a flexi b/c of it's design. 

[sheryl]

30 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I'd do a blanket folded up, not a comforter, with a puppy. Pulling the stuffing out of a comforter is SUPER fun, and then can swallow it. Plus then they learn how fun it is to chew up a bed. Cheap fleece throw blankets are pretty easy to find. 

I also really like using bath mats in the crate - easy to wash, don't move around. 

KATIE!  Do you breed?  Your advice is right on!  Thanks for that TOO!!!!!

23 minutes ago, Pen said:

I try not to use tennis balls for dogs because their fuzz / glues supposedly bad for teeth .

our current dog (disappointingly for my Ds) is not hugely ball interested  I think he got started on them too late plus had been discouraged from getting the ball by his dog sire who was very into balls and wasn’t about to let a puppy beat him to one

Our last male before him adored balls

An open mesh type ball was manageable as a puppy fairly safely: Ours not exactly this but along these lines: JW Hol-ee Roller Original Treat Dispensing Dog Ball - Hard Natural Rubber - Assorted Colors https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DJX44/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_liuxDbSS2TZB2

never used for treats just for play   Prior dog liked to fetch it.  Current dog likes to hide and seek with it or tug with it, but will play fetch retrieve with it for awhile    Puppy can grab an edge sometimes, big dog can hold the whole ball

 

 

For an older dog it would work, no?  Or, a rubber ball?   This dog I mentioned, a golden retr, is so incredibly careful to eat food without touching ball.  It forces him to eat slowly and not gulp. 

13 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Given that your breeder agrees with me on so much she seems incredibly wise, 🤣

KATIE - LOL!  Yes!  

[sheryl]

Yesterday, Tuesday, dd and I went to see the puppies in the litter. They are BEAUTIFUL!  Two female, yellow pure-bred English labs puppies born 6/18 or 6/19/19!   

"J" is a female breeder in her late 40's who has been breeding for about 27 years.   Here's what I've learned from this thread and from her.   She confirmed several points made here:

1 - I need to confess that I guess I/we (along with dh) did not know how to "properly" care for a puppy and the transition to adulthood.  This thread has humbled me.  I appreciate each and every response!   I've learned so much and am glad I posted this as it will give me time to take my current "limited" knowledge and combine with these tips/suggestions that y'all offered!

2 - Crate training is essential.  She said take them out about once an hour.  Other puppies from this litter are sleeping through the night already!  I always thought crating was more punishment.  OH HOW LITTLE I KNEW!  AND, I'M A LITTLE TICKED I DIDN'T KNOW THIS BEFORE!   She offered the proper use of the crate and explained as a pp mentioned that a crate feels like their "nest".  Properly used they actually enjoy it b/c they feel safe when hunkered down. 

3- NO to harness.  She asked, "what other animals do you know need the harness?" to which we replied, "horse" as one example.  She went on to explain that horses "pull" and NEED the harness.  Dogs if properly trained don't need a harness and she went on to show us how using a webbed rope leash was attached and with a bend in the wrist (not arm) she maneuvered the dog's position to follow "her" lead.  Kinda like riding a horse and the intricate use of fingers/wrist to do the same at some times during a ride. 

4 - Collar - webbed with metal closure.  

5 - Leash - webbed cord or strap, not flexi.

She withholds water around 7 pm or so to help train puppies to hopefully not have accidents.  It does happen but soon grow out of. 

Thanks to all of you who offered so many great tips.   Maybe a harness works on small dogs, I don't know.   Our labs are usually around 70 lbs. for girls.  🙂  

And, Bill, thanks again for the info on the standing bowls - I just had no idea.

 

[Spy Car]

Using a crate will greatly aid in house training (in addition to the other advantages). As I mentioned earlier, dogs/pups naturally resist soiling their own space. So if one immediately removes a pup from the crate and takes them to a spot where you'd like them to relieve themselves, and combines that with a "command word" and praise, the pup will get the idea really quickly. Positive training works wonders.

Many people will reduce the size of full sized crates in puppyhood by putting in a divider to there is no "pee-zone" area. Pups/Dogs do tend to love their crates, it mimics a den. If it is a wire crate you can cover it to make it extra secure feeling.

I strongly urge you get "high value" treats. Ideally that is pure meat. Commercially de-hydrated pure meat treats are pricey. For that reason I dehydrate my own and keep a stash in the freezer. Some trainers use the individual string cheese packs marked for kid's snacks. I like meat. I think meat treats are the greatest training aid there is (combined with human praise and attention). The whole idea of threats is to create a strong reward linked to the behavior. 

Start informal "training" on day one. Nothing harsh. Just encourage behaviors you desire and discourage those you would not like in an 70-80 lb dog. If a behavior would not be cute with a full sized beast, do not reward it when they are "cute."

As Pen mentioned, no tennis balls. Chewing them can destroy tooth enamel. Very bad.

If you hate the look of the prong collars, Sprenger (the German company that makes the best ones--including the one pictured above) also makes something called a Neck Tech Martingale collar--that looks almost like a fancy stainless men's wristwatch band (scaled up). It removes the medieval look and the judgemental looks from people who are poorly informed about what is (and is not) humane in dog training. My only concern with the Neck-Teck is that the "teeth" are far shorter than the prong. Good on my shorthaired Vizsla. I'd confirm that these work will with thick furred Labs. Otherwise the two collars seem about equal in utility to me.

https://www.amazon.com/Herm-Sprenger-Neck-tech-Martingale-Collar/dp/B00CS93SXC/ref=asc_df_B00CS93SXC/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=248414288605&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw

To judge healthy body weight, get in the habit of palpating the pups ribs so you can feel the amount of fat layer. This gives you a standard. I like dogs to be lean. Labs can get obese very easily and that can cause joint damage. Whatever standard you decide to set, palpating the ribs is the best measure (and especially in dog's like Labs where just looking is not reliable).

Try to search for my screen name and "bite inhibition" training. I've given what I consider the best advice I have for new dog owners on the most important aspect of a puppy's education  a number of times. 

Have fun!

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

[Pen]

 

2 hours ago, sheryl said:

For an older dog it would work, no?  Or, a rubber ball?   This dog I mentioned, a golden retr, is so incredibly careful to eat food without touching ball.  It forces him to eat slowly and not gulp. 

 

I was thinking in terms of toys—not for in a food bowl.

I’ve had one extreme chow hound dog and nothing would stop her in that way.  She would just pick up a ball or slow down object and set it aside.  

 

[Spy Car]

When it comes to a permanent standard collar (not prong, etc) I really like getting them from Gun Dog Supply. The big draw is GDS will attach an engraved brass plate with all the contact info you prove--do not include dog's name--with rivets.

These brass plates will not come off or get tangled up or make noise the way standard dog tags do.

The pricing is very reasonable.

Bill

[ktgrok]

You can easily feed food in a muffin tin to slow them down, or they make "snuffle mats" that are fun, but perhaps messy. 

You can also reserve a portion of the puppies food and use it for treats during the day, to keep from accidentally giving too many calories. 

And no, not a breeder, but I worked in veterinary medicine for 20 years, and have done some limited foster/rescue, and dog training, and owned dogs. Also attended a LOT of continuing education hours at the North american Veterinary Conference which is right here in Florida, with leading experts in behavior, nutrition, etc. 

Remember, with house breaking you cannot take them out too much! If you think they might MAYBe possibly need to go out, do it! Wherever they go the most often, even by accident, they will develop a preference for. So make sure that place is your yard, not your floor. 

Puppy should be in the crate or attached to a leash in your hand, or right in front of your eyes for the first few months. If puppy sneaks off and pees on your floor roll up a newspaper and bop YOURSELF on the head for not watching the puppy, lol. 

Oh, and I give the BEST treats right after they potty while still outside. (not when you come back in - then you are rewarding them for coming inside, not for going potty)

[Spy Car]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

You can easily feed food in a muffin tin to slow them down, or they make "snuffle mats" that are fun, but perhaps messy. 

You can also reserve a portion of the puppies food and use it for treats during the day, to keep from accidentally giving too many calories. 

And no, not a breeder, but I worked in veterinary medicine for 20 years, and have done some limited foster/rescue, and dog training, and owned dogs. Also attended a LOT of continuing education hours at the North american Veterinary Conference which is right here in Florida, with leading experts in behavior, nutrition, etc. 

Remember, with house breaking you cannot take them out too much! If you think they might MAYBe possibly need to go out, do it! Wherever they go the most often, even by accident, they will develop a preference for. So make sure that place is your yard, not your floor. 

Puppy should be in the crate or attached to a leash in your hand, or right in front of your eyes for the first few months. If puppy sneaks off and pees on your floor roll up a newspaper and bop YOURSELF on the head for not watching the puppy, lol. 

Oh, and I give the BEST treats right after they potty while still outside. (not when you come back in - then you are rewarding them for coming inside, not for going potty)

LOL and +1.

Bill

[Selkie]

On 8/19/2019 at 7:27 PM, Ktgrok said:

Oh no! I'm glad it worked for you, but most of the time that works out TERRIBLY. They dogs bond with each other and pay more attention to each other than the owner, and totally overwhelm the owner. Trying to get two dogs to sit, potty train, heel, etc is more than most people can handle. Better to get one dog to where it is trained and well behaved and then get another dog. 

Oh yeah, you're probably right! Everyone I hang around with has lifelong experience with dogs (and much more challenging animals like horses!), so I forget that two puppies could be a handful for some people!🙂