hands-on-mama Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 How hard is it to jump into Writing with Skill without having done WWE? My daughter is going into 6th and i’m Looking into this for her. Not a lot of formal writing instruction, but she enjoys writing and understands the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonflower Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 It's not as easy a curriculum as it sounds (and it doesn't sound easy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormaElle Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 One thing is that sixth grade is on the younger end for when I think I would start WWS. I think seventh or eighth grade is a better starting point. The skills of WWE that the student needs for WWS is narration/summarizing and the ability to put words on paper. If a student can do those things well, it doesn't matter that s/he hasn't done WWE. You say your daughter enjoys writing, but WWS is a composition course, which is different than the creative/personal writing a lot of middle schoolers enjoy. Unless she has had practice with narration and is good at it, I'd start with WWE3. All the placement tests are available on the website, and you may find she doesn't need to do WWE at all. (I wouldn't worry about dictation at this age if she's writing well on her own.) If you start WWS now, you can (and should!) go slowly. Actually, you should go slowly whenever you start. It's not easy and there's a definite learning curve. Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) According to WTMA, your student is ready for WWS if they can complete day 2 & 3 of week 1: Narrative Summaries. They have a rubric for you to evaluate. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6peV77xQYK_VkkyUVV0Sk1TNVk/view ETA: SWB says that there is nothing wrong with using WWS1 at half speed for a younger student. Mine is the same age as yours. I have decided not to use it for another year because he does not enjoy writing. This is a STEM kid through and through. He did complete WWE 1-3 already. Edited February 20, 2019 by calbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hands-on-mama Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 23 hours ago, calbear said: According to WTMA, your student is ready for WWS if they can complete day 2 & 3 of week 1: Narrative Summaries. They have a rubric for you to evaluate. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6peV77xQYK_VkkyUVV0Sk1TNVk/view ETA: SWB says that there is nothing wrong with using WWS1 at half speed for a younger student. Mine is the same age as yours. I have decided not to use it for another year because he does not enjoy writing. This is a STEM kid through and through. He did complete WWE 1-3 already. Is there anything besides WWE that could help prep her for WWS since she is likely in between? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) You can take a look at SWB's comments about the progression between WWE and WWS here: http://downloads.peacehillpress.com/samples/pdf/WWEandWWSexplanation.pdf?utm_source=Catalog&utm_medium=Print&utm_content=Page%2B9&utm_campaign=2014%2BCatalog&page=10 I think the suggestion above to do WWE3 (can probably do it at double speed) is probably a good one because of the narration skills it teaches. You can see that I am using Treasured Conversations (written by 8FilltheHeart) which is easy to do and not burdensome for a kid like mine. I have IEW which I would not suggest that you use because it doesn't sound like your student is a reluctant writer or needs a lot of scaffolding. I used an Outlining 5-8 book by Remedia Publications which was effective for practice outling and writing from an outline. It would maybe take a month to complete. It's quick and relatively easy to do. I also have the Killgallon books that SWB recommends, and WTMA uses for their Pre - Expository Writing class that comes before WWS1 in Expository Writing. You can read about that here: http://sentencecomposing.com/Sentence Composing for Elementary School by Don Killgallon, ISBN 0325002231 Paragraphs for Elementary School by Don Killgallon, ISBN 9780325047942 Sentence Composing for Middle School by Don Killgallon, ISBN 9780867094190 Paragraphs for Middle School by Don Killgallon, ISBN 9780325042688 ETA: I think that perhaps the Outling Book would get you closest to narration skills. Edited February 21, 2019 by calbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) You could incorporate narration in your history since you are using America's Story. Found this for you: https://welltrainedmind.com/a/tips-for-narration/ Edited February 21, 2019 by calbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 We did WWE and started WWS in 6th. I don't think it needs much specific preparation so much as an ability to follow directions. In retrospect I would have started at the end of 5th and just slowly worked through it, taking breaks occasionally for easier things like a week of Killgallon or a two-week Shakespeare play study or a writing project in another subject. We've been able to keep up as long as I double the time allocated for the independent writing projects. We will do the series over 4 years, finishing freshman year. This wasn't my original plan (of course) but I'm super satisfied with how things are turning out, and the writing abilities they have acquired. It is one of the few writing programs I've seen with a logical progression and a clear goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 We never did WWE, but just did WTM style narrations, summaries, and dictations on our own. I found WWS to be a better fit for later middle school for both of mine. Throughout middle school we just did WTM Logic stage history which was a lot of outlining and summaries and we continued our R&S English which included composition. Around 8th grade we added in WWS slowly since we were already doing so much writing, we couldn't hit it full speed and I just made sure my odd finished it in 9th grade. The other is on the same path. By 8/9th grade WWS went very smoothly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 She should be able to summarize succinctly, follow directions well, do basic outlining, and be willing to move through the building of skills without really understanding the end point. There’s lots of trees - good things - no forest. We couldn’t use it very long for that reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisha Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, Targhee said: She should be able to summarize succinctly, follow directions well, do basic outlining, and be willing to move through the building of skills without really understanding the end point. There’s lots of trees - good things - no forest. We couldn’t use it very long for that reason. Can I ask what you moved to that was more "forest"-like? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 hours ago, alisha said: Can I ask what you moved to that was more "forest"-like? Thanks! We actually went to LTOW because we need to work on essays. There’s more big picture in this because you complete an essay before mastering the individual components. Each essay has new invention (generating ideas and support - *thinking* about things), arrangement (organization and components of an essay), and elocution (style, composition writing from your outline) lessons working on specific skills and ending in an essay. Each time through the cycle you deepen skills/structural elements already learned and add new things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 The advice you already got about being able to summarize and outline is solid, as is the advice to wait on WWS until later in the logic stage (or start early but work slowly). I would add that, after completing WWE and almost completing WWS, I have found that one thing I wish we had paid closer attention to somewhere along the line is how to write a solid paragraph. It's not something that I recall covering in any depth, and I'm having to go back now and correct it a bit. I wish we'd taken more time in 4th/5th/6th grade to work on it as a stand-alone skill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 On February 20, 2019 at 10:40 PM, hands-on-mama said: Is there anything besides WWE that could help prep her for WWS since she is likely in between? Well this is sorta old school, but I LOVED Writing Tales and highly, highly recommend. You'd go directly into WT2 with her. After that, I would do anything else you want (Creative Writer, Wordsmith Apprentice, Unjournaling, etc.) until she's developmentally ready to do WWS1 comfortably. We did WWS1 later, more like 8th iirc, no regrets. At that point we were doing it double pace, but still there's a lot to be said for a dc being very READY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 56 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said: I would add that, after completing WWE and almost completing WWS, I have found that one thing I wish we had paid closer attention to somewhere along the line is how to write a solid paragraph. It's not something that I recall covering in any depth, and I'm having to go back now and correct it a bit. I wish we'd taken more time in 4th/5th/6th grade to work on it as a stand-alone skill. Yup, there's a nice series on paragraphing that we did. It's the kind of filler stuff we did between WT2 and WWS1. We also did a lot of reading essays and outlining. She enjoyed Muse magazine at that age. The articles were well-written, so outlining them was kind of an epiphany for her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, PeterPan said: Yup, there's a nice series on paragraphing that we did. It's the kind of filler stuff we did between WT2 and WWS1. We also did a lot of reading essays and outlining. She enjoyed Muse magazine at that age. The articles were well-written, so outlining them was kind of an epiphany for her. Would love to know what you used for paragraphs as I prepare for my ds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, PeachyDoodle said: The advice you already got about being able to summarize and outline is solid, as is the advice to wait on WWS until later in the logic stage (or start early but work slowly). I would add that, after completing WWE and almost completing WWS, I have found that one thing I wish we had paid closer attention to somewhere along the line is how to write a solid paragraph. It's not something that I recall covering in any depth, and I'm having to go back now and correct it a bit. I wish we'd taken more time in 4th/5th/6th grade to work on it as a stand-alone skill. An excellent easy to do series for this is EPS's Paragraphs series. It's meant to be used for remediation in 6 to 8, but I used it at the recommendation of another boardie for my son in 3rd and 4th grade.http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/EPS/media/Site-Resources/downloads/program-overviews/S-paragraph_book.pdf Also, Treasured Conversations does such a good job as well with teaching you to write a paragraph. Edited February 22, 2019 by calbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanDiegoMom Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Another option is to just take twice as long to do WWS. We have really stretched it out, taking much longer for the day four exercises. My kids were ready for the work, just not the pace. I was also very hands on with it -- always going through the lessons with them and guiding them through it step by step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) This isn't what I used, but I found it while I was looking for the other book. Looks good, thinking I'll use it with ds. https://teacherspondering.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/super-sentences-and-perfect-paragraphs.pdf It was sort of in that vein, with chapters for each of the types and models that you would analyze, maybe unscramble, rewrite, I forget. It was pretty cursory. After that we just mapped good writing so she could see the flow of their arguments. My ds has a more significant SLD in writing, so he's going to be a lot more work. With him I'll use the expository structures checklists from Story Grammar Marker. https://mindwingconcepts.com/blogs/news/29759873-looking-at-expository-discourse-across-the-grade-levels Edited February 23, 2019 by PeterPan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.