SereneHome Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 I am looking for books suggestions on how to help a child to calm down. Some details- my oldest has always been the kind of kid who needs a loooong time before being comfortable in almost any new situation. Whether is a class, someone's house, a trip to the theater- if it's something he hasn't experienced before, it makes him super nervous. He is not shy, just not easily adaptable or adjustable to anything new. Sometimes even after a few times he is still not 100% "there". And bc of that, he tries to control things in his life, which, obviously, is not possible. I thought it gotten better as he got older, but I think I missed the mark, bc something happened today that makes me think that he either suppressed it for awhile and / or pushed through it. So, while he used to have major temper tantrums while he was younger, now it's manifesting more in things like upset stomach,etc. Are there any book resources out there that would teach me how to help him to deal with this and give him tools that he needs. Thank you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Idk the age you're parenting, but a great series is https://www.amazon.com/What-When-Worry-Much-What/dp/1591473144/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542999392&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=when+worry+kid+book&dpPl=1&dpID=51kmpp5bl5L&ref=plSrch This is the worry book but there are many others. They are workbook activities to talk through and read together, and any part you get to that may be helpful can illuminate more specific things to work on (self regulation or new situations, etc). Have you noticed other behaviors that may be related to autism? What you’re describing is common in ASD, so I’d peek at a diagnosis website a bit to see if you may benefit more looking into it- https://iancommunity.org/cs/autism/dsm_iv_criteria 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 23, 2018 Author Share Posted November 23, 2018 Thank you. I am 100% sure he doesn't have autism. It's just about getting nervous before anything new 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, SereneHome said: I thought it gotten better as he got older That's tricky, because genes don't change, etc. If you are interested, you can look through this article on social thinking profiles and see if you see him in there anyway. It's *not* about the DSM diagnosis, because people might have no diagnoses or diagnoses you wouldn't expect (ADHD, something else) and fall into these categories. https://www.socialthinking.com/Articles?name=Social Thinking Social Communication Profile The talk about anxiety in a neurotypical social communicator and discuss when it might occur. So nobody is saying anxiety (to some degree) is abnormal or uncommon, as it IS common. The other interesting thing you can glean from that article is that usually people settle into a pattern around age 7 (I forget, see the article) and at that point they improve *relative to themselves* rather than completely changing to some other category. Demands change (increasing) and supports change (decreasing), so it can become more OBVIOUS. But the person is who he is and he's going to need supports that meet him right where he is. The question then is how to triage this. 6 hours ago, SereneHome said: I am 100% sure he doesn't have autism. That's pretty emphatic. I'll just agree with displace that it's a question to ask, because those issues with transitions, problem solving, rigidity, and anxiety can correlate to ASD or significant ADHD (which merges into ASD at some point anyway). There definitely is reason to be asking the question. Even if you had the ADOS or a screening tool like the GARS run a few years ago the results might be different now. This age, 10-12, is the most common time for your more aspergerish presentation to be diagnosed. And over on LC, we often have kids been diagnosed in their teens. Did I remember you being a teacher or having someone around who was some kind of education or psych professional? Can't remember why I was thinking that. Sometimes people are like definitely not because so and so screened them. Anyways, you might want to read about EF (executive function) and how EF deficits result in difficulty with problem solving, rigidity, etc. 8 hours ago, SereneHome said: not easily adaptable or adjustable to anything new. Sometimes even after a few times he is still not 100% "there". And bc of that, he tries to control things in his life, Bingo. We're totally believing you. So then the question is how to triage and identify the extent of the deficits and what intervention should be done. I can tell you there's some useful testing a psych or SLP could run on him. Ironically, sometimes SLPs are tasked with running this stuff and own more interesting tests than the psychs. -Test of Problem Solving -Social Language Development Test -Test of Narrative Language The TNL I'm including just for bonus, because you never know what the results will be. It's a standardized tool, not an informal assessment, and it yields breakdowns in a bunch of useful areas (inferences, etc.). The Test of Problem Solving is a really standard one to run. The SLDT is a pain n the butt to score but it also could yield useful info. So those are all things an SLP, who around here would typically bill at $100-130 an hour and be covered by insurance, could run. Find a therapy clinic that specializes in ADHD, ASD, social thinking deficits, etc. and they'll probably have these tests and be able to run them for you. A psych then has your mental health screening tools and will sometimes have some of those tests. Psychs can bill from $140-250 in our area (private, not hospital) and they seriously might not own ANY of those tests. It's ridiculous. So they'll diagnose anxiety and not tell you WHY. The SLP on the other hand, if they own the tests, can do more detailed testing that will actually generate actionable information. For instance, if he has low scores in some of the Test of Problem Solving, then you have an actual, actionable road map. Yes, there are books. You can do them yourself or find an SLP who specializes in social thinking or a psych who does counseling. What can happen, if you jump straight into counseling or whatever, is the person has deeper deficits and nothing gets accomplished or they just get stressed and frustrated. Wasted money. So it's kind of a balancing line, triaging, figuring out what would help. If you want to get your feet wet, get some of the books Displace was talking about. You can get CBT-style books from amazon or your library. To me, what you described is significant enough that I would want some evaluations done to dig in. When the dc is going into his teen years, this is the time to give voice to what the problem is, and good evals give voice. He has never known life any differently, so he can't necessarily tell you yet what's wrong. Or he's telling you bits and pieces and it's hard to connect because his proposed solutions aren't acceptable or seemingly workable. So that's why evals are good, because you can dig in and find more complete explanations. Just my two cents, but you could also run genetics. The TPH2 defect is pretty common and it glitches conversion of tryptophan to serotonin and melatonin, resulting in anxiety, etc. Treatable, and you can identify the defect with the $49 23andme testing. https://www.amazon.com/Birds-Have-Anxiety-Kathy-Hoopmann/dp/1785921827/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1543010888&sr=8-2&keywords=all+dogs+have+adhd Again, if you rabbit trail from a book like the one I linked, you'll find tons of options. You can start somewhere and see if it's enough. Also look into Kelly Mahler's book on Interoception. It's self-awareness and it can help with self-monitoring so he can make better choices in those moments. The self-regulation issues he's having when stressed need their own intervention, and working on Interoception and then Zones would be your evidence-based approaches. Fwiw, I went to a convention talk with some people out from Stanford who are running a program for gifted/ASD and they said they use Zones with ALL the kids, because the issues are so common. EF issues are common in the gifted population, even if they don't push over to an ADHD/ASD label. So it's important to use the tools and not get hung up on the labels. Edited November 24, 2018 by PeterPan 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 23, 2018 Author Share Posted November 23, 2018 Wow, thank you so much for such detailed and thought-out post @PeterPan No, I am not a teacher or have any kind of knowledge or education re: psych. Not only that, I was completely unprepared for a child like this. He told me today that he doesn't like anything new. Huh??? KWIM? Like what does it even mean? But I KNOW he is not autistic and I KNOW that he doesn't have ADHD. And it's not even about labels to me, it's just that one aspect of his personality / genetics that is completely foreign to me.... So, I thank you for taking the time and giving me so much to read and think about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 I'll add a couple of practical books you can see if your library has. Freeing Your Child From Anxiety, Helping Your Anxious Teen or Helping Your Anxious Child and What to do when you worry too much (geared toward younger kids, straight to the kid). I have the Freeing one (older edition) and the What to do ... book. They have different strengths. I come from a family of "worry worts" (?) so likely anxiety is genetic for my kid. We focus on coping techniques, telling the worrybrain to shut up, and finding what works. Exercise helps calm the anxiety as does magnesium. It never goes away but can be managed (assuming it isn't out of control because meds might be needed to jump start the management in that case). When I say I don't like anything new, I mean that I don't like change. I don't want to throw away my old whatever or to think about moving or growing up or having to interact with a new group of people . . . I don't know if that is what your son meant-- just giving my meaning. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 I agree with RootAnn. Her suggestions are my favorites ( my kids get anxiety genes from both sides.). What I have finally realized is that what we are shooting for is developing the tools to deal with anxiety. It doesn't go away, really, but can be very successfully managed with CBT techniques, exercise and other calming techniques. Your goal is to help him know and develop a set of strategies to name and cope with the different types of distorted thinking that aggravate the anxiety. The best thing you can do is be calm and non-reactive (not always easy!). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, SereneHome said: He told me today that he doesn't like anything new. Huh??? KWIM? Like what does it even mean? But I KNOW he is not autistic and I KNOW that he doesn't have ADHD. Would you like to elaborate on where you're coming from with the knowing he's not autistic and not ADHD? It's just interesting to me that you're so emphatic on it, so I didn't want to bore you with saying things till I heard where you're coming from. :) Edited November 24, 2018 by PeterPan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippiemamato3 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, PeterPan said: Would you like to elaborate on where you're coming from with the knowing he's not autistic and not ADHD? It's just interesting to me that you're so emphatic on it, so I didn't want to bore you with saying things till I heard where you're coming from. 🙂 I'm not sure why you're so adamant that her son must have either of those. Many, many people have Generalized Anxiety Disorder or OCD or Social Anxiety and are not autistic and do not have ADHD. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, PeterPan said: Would you like to elaborate on where you're coming from with the knowing he's not autistic and not ADHD? It's just interesting to me that you're so emphatic on it, so I didn't want to bore you with saying things till I heard where you're coming from. 🙂 Well.....there are just no other "symptoms" or "signs" or really anything that would make me think otherwise. No one he has ever come in contact with ever suggested it even as a remote possibility, including his pediatrician. He just gets very nervous and hesitant when it comes to any new outside-of-the-house experiences. But then again, he has taken plenty of classes (and he participates in them just fine), done plenty of activities, both, physical and mental. I haven't pushed any of it on him. He asks, so I sign him up. I would absolutely answer any other questions if you'd like, but you might have to get more specific as I am not sure I am missing something. Does it make sense? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said: I'm not sure why you're so adamant that her son must have either of those. Many, many people have Generalized Anxiety Disorder or OCD or Social Anxiety and are not autistic and do not have ADHD. I agree, I made it sound too emphatic in that direction. Mainly my two cents is have the conversation, pursue answers, and work up through the levels of options. There's a lot of good stuff out there. Also, fwiw, I personally wouldn't be scheduling a psych eval based on ONE DAY, one bad day, lol. I'd just start by getting something like that book I linked, reading it together, and opening the conversation about whether that's how he feels, how often he feels that way. You could begin making data and have him make data on how often this is occurring. You could look up 5 Point Scale (which is a concept, no need to buy anything) and begin talking about the size of the problem and strategies. You could see if he recognizes how his body feels when that's happening. Like if you ask him how he knows when he's starting to feel that way and what triggers it, that's really helpful information. And then ask if there are things he tries to do for himself when he's feeling that way to make himself feel better. That's that Interoception piece to screen and see whether that interoceptive awareness is there, ready to be harnessed, or whether that needs some intervention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 That Social Thinking site I linked you to has tons of materials for anxiety, and they give recs by topic and age. You're likely to find stuff there. They have tons of great articles (free) too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 3 hours ago, RootAnn said: I'll add a couple of practical books you can see if your library has. Freeing Your Child From Anxiety, Helping Your Anxious Teen or Helping Your Anxious Child and What to do when you worry too much (geared toward younger kids, straight to the kid). I have the Freeing one (older edition) and the What to do ... book. They have different strengths. I come from a family of "worry worts" (?) so likely anxiety is genetic for my kid. We focus on coping techniques, telling the worrybrain to shut up, and finding what works. Exercise helps calm the anxiety as does magnesium. It never goes away but can be managed (assuming it isn't out of control because meds might be needed to jump start the management in that case). When I say I don't like anything new, I mean that I don't like change. I don't want to throw away my old whatever or to think about moving or growing up or having to interact with a new group of people . . . I don't know if that is what your son meant-- just giving my meaning. Yes! I think that's what it is. And I think bc of that he has this inherent need to control things, events, etc. Like I can't surprise him even with something good bc he needs time to mentally prepare himself for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I'm guessing what triggered PeterPan to ask about ASD or ADHD is the attempt at control to lower anxiety. Rigidity can be a trait of both of those things, but it can also be an attempt at controlling anxiety. My 13 year old has severe anxiety, but she has some other stuff, and it's an open question whether she's on the spectrum or just really, really anxious. The more anxious she gets, the more autistic she looks, and people who have worked with her (doctors, counselors) have all thought she was on the spectrum, but every time she's had a formal evaluation, she's passed it with flying colors. Like, not ambiguously. I honestly don't know and I've come to think in her case, it doesn't really matter if we have a definitive answer, really, but the anxiety is really, really problematic. We've done counseling and worked on mindfulness and relaxation strategies and all that, but honestly, medication has been what's made the major difference in her life. Careful preparation for new situations, high support in times of stress, giving her scripts to follow and very clear expectations help. But we started meds at five, and in retrospect, we should have tried them a year or two earlier, because it impacted her life dramatically from a very early age. And when she was anxious, she freezes, and when she freezes, she does not learn. She really did not learn anything between ages 2 and 5. I've thought about doing biofeedback with Mighteor, but we haven't yet. Finding "her thing" (role playing) has helped a lot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonflower Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 4 hours ago, PeterPan said: Just my two cents, but you could also run genetics. The TPH2 defect is pretty common and it glitches conversion of tryptophan to serotonin and melatonin, resulting in anxiety, etc. Treatable, and you can identify the defect with the $49 23andme testing. tried to pm but it says you're not receiving messages. Can you send a link to what this is and how you treat it? thanks in advance and sorry for thread derail 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 5 hours ago, SereneHome said: Yes! I think that's what it is. And I think bc of that he has this inherent need to control things, events, etc. Like I can't surprise him even with something good bc he needs time to mentally prepare himself for it. I also hate good surprises. I’m neuro typical so I’ll just chalk it up to a spectrum of likes/dislikes. Or that the good surprises I’ve been exposed to were not good imo, but the other person thought they were good. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Putting aside the question of ADHD and/or autism*, do you think your child might benefit from some counseling? Or possibly even medication? Sometimes the DIY approach to mental health just prolongs and worsens the situation. And since you say this has gotten worse recently, I feel I should ask - is there a chance this is PANDAS? Has your kid had strep in the past year or so? * And just FYI, I wouldn't expect the pediatrician to notice autism or ADHD unless they're experts on the subject or your kid is really, really obviously whatever. I expect the pediatrician to tell me whether or not it's strep, to confirm that my kid is growing properly and doesn't have scoliosis, and to prescribe our asthma meds on schedule. If I wanted/need a diagnosis of a developmental disorder, I'd ask for a referral to a neuropsych. Not that I particularly think your kid is either, just that I would never expect my pediatrician to spontaneously be all "Whoa, your kid is SO autistic!" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 14 hours ago, moonflower said: tried to pm but it says you're not receiving messages. Can you send a link to what this is and how you treat it? thanks in advance and sorry for thread derail Oh sorry box is full. You can try again. I ran testing with 23andme and downloaded that data to run through promothease and knowyourgenetics.com . The TPH2 gene defect results in lower 5HTP (and serotonin and melatonin ) so you take the 5HTP and boom . I haven't looked for all the genetic explanations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Thanks everyone who gave me some book suggestions and some things to think about. I will do some reading and go from there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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