My 10 year old can't write. Help.

[poppy]

Please no judgement. My daughter has some special needs including ASD,  ADHD and dyslexia. Plus social-emotional issues.  Despite that she is  grade-level ..... in subjects that interest her.   But she can't write.  She cannot compose a paragraph.  She has [finally!!] gotten to the point where she is anxious about academics and wants to be able to keep up with peers.

Challenges: hard time with seat work.   She cant' take ADHD meds because her anxiety is pretty severe.  (We are due to start  ABA therapy in the next month which may help.)

I dont' know what programs to use for her. So many programs are for younger kids, or older kids.  10 seems like an odd spot to start learning to write.

I looked at workbooks and worksheet style programs but her handwriting is weak and she has a hard time focusing.

I looked at Writing with Ease, I think she could do dictation, her comprehension skills are very good, but I'm not sure where to start.

I looked at IEW but we tried the grammar stuff (Nose Tree) and the methodical-ness was a challenge.

I looked at Bravewriter but it's kind of a mushy thing?

I don't mean to pooh-pooh everything, I know we just have to pick and hammer it home, but I'm really looking for advice.

Anyone have a similar experience or any tips? I'd appreciate it.

 

[Ellie]

Writing Strands, Level 3.

Or Understanding Writing, which goes through high school.

[alisha]

I'm getting ready to try "The Paragraph Book" 1 (there are 4 and focus on different types of paragraphs/essays) with my 11 year old who is behind in writing. I liked that it starts out simple, but seems to still teach the fundamentals of writing-meaning when they finish a book, they should be able to write at least a decent paragraph. However, like I said, I haven't started it yet, to know for sure how it works, but I did A LOT of research on here and other places trying to find something that starts toward the beginning. Here's the publisher website: http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/products/literacy/grammar-writing/the-paragraph-book/about-the-program and there are some pretty decent samples down the right side of books 1 & 2. Also can find a few samples at rainbow resource and CBD. Hope this helps somewhat.

[SoCal_Bear]

I second the Pararaph series. It's pretty accessible. It's not baby-ish at all. However since it is used for struggling students in middle school, it's written in a very straightforward and simple style without feeling too young YKWIM? It's not overwhelming as each of the four books is thin. Plenty of white space on the pages and not too busy. It's pretty explicit and gives concrete tools for them to use as they think through the writing process. You can break each of the lesson (8 in the first book) into whatever chunks you would like if keeping the lessons short for her ADHD would help.

Edited September 13, 2018 by calbear

[SoCal_Bear]

I will also say that this was really good, easy to use, inexpensive resource as well. Not overwhelming. Outling 5-8 from Remedia Publications. 

https://www.rainbowresource.com/proddtl?id=022872

[SporkUK]

Write On by Karen Newell might be of use as it gives very unthreatening examples to go through which makes it feel more doable alongside the objectives and directions for each all contained on one page (though sometimes the examples are on more than one, all the instructions are on one). It goes from words and sentences up to the writing of a thesis and includes writing skills and concepts, academic outlining and writing, creative writing like fiction and poetry, writing about history and literature and spelling words and more. I've used it both as the recommended schedule and breaking it up into the above topics so we can focus on one area or another and found it helpful for my older kids who are struggling to write. I found it quite possible to do daily on the recommended schedule until we got to the 40s (out of a hundred) with my then-8 year old and my older two started to struggle in the 60s which is when I went through and made a list by topic for us to help us all focus. Now, we're starting to do writing time with that weekly with either revision days or freewriting the rest of the week to help build up writing stamina and practice skills. We also do typing at times for other areas of the curriculum - particularly if it involves reading on a computer - but as their qualification exams will most likely be handwritten, we do composition by hand almost all of the time.  

For freewriting,I use this which was posted on this forum but sadly I lost who wrote it between editing the notepad I saved it to and the forum update. I sometimes add 1-2 minutes on the times for brief outlining and for my anxious child, having it contained like this and discussing gently but not pushing for much revision then and there on these pieces both helped them relax as well as helped develop from very brief stream of consciousness style sentences to a coherent paragraph on one topic with clearer handwriting. 

Quote

"It's a good way of building up stamina and slowly adding the "parts" needed to essays to gently increase ease and ability with essay writing; this is probably the best thing that helped our DSs the most with writing. All 3 of us (starting DSs in gr. 8 and 9 -- AND myself) did it, and then (gently) critiqued each other's essays. We started with the goal of 10 minutes, 1 solid paragraph, and worked up from there. After we got confident with that "level" (usually took 6 weeks to 1 semester), we added to the goal. We stuck with a once-a-week  essay at that level until we were very proficient at it. Doing it together seemed to reduce the pain and the complaining. 

Level A
- 10 minutes of time
- 1 paragraph at least 5 sentences long
- with an introductory sentence which introduces the topic (this is the topic sentence)
- at least 3 "body" sentences that are specific details, facts, examples quotations, etc., and support the topic sentence/contention
- and a solid concluding 1-2 sentences (restatement of the topic sentence, very brief/general summary of main supporting points)
 
Level B
- 15 minutes of time
- 1 longer overall paragraph, at least 6-8 sentences long, or 2 paragraphs
- add a "hook" in the introduction, which will now be 2-3 sentences (the hook grabs the reader's attention -- fascinating fact, quotation, a very brief anecdote, a question, bold/shocking statement, an analogy or definition…)
- a topic sentence/contention (can be in the same sentence with the "hook")
- the body sentences all support the topic sentence (specific details, facts, examples, quotations, etc.)
- and a solid concluding 1-2 sentences

Level C
- 20 minutes of time
- 3 paragraphs
- 1.) intro paragraph -- can be short (2-3 sentences); still must have a hook and topic sentence/contention
- 2.) body paragraph sentences must all support the topic sentence/contention, and must have specific supports (details, facts, examples, quotations, etc.), all supporting the topic sentence/contention
- add a sentence in the introduction that summaries the 2-4 major details that will be fleshed out in the body 

that support the topic sentence
- the body sentences all support the topic sentence (specific details, facts, examples, quotations, etc.)
- add transitions between paragraphs -- usually the first sentence of the new paragraph -- to smooth the writing and add style and continuity or contrast
- 3.) concluding paragraph: 2-3 sentences (restatement of the topic sentence, very brief/general summary of main supporting points)

Level D
Same as C above, but now must add a "clincher" sentence, an additional "extra", to the concluding paragraph 

-- not just a restatement of the opening sentences and a summary of main supporting points -- add a thought, "reason why", "what this leads to" 
-- this is something out of the student's own thoughts and reasoning. 
The "clincher" answers the question asked in the hook or completes the anecdote, description, or definition started in the hook; ends with a warning or call for action; asks a final rhetorical question; suggests results or consequences; a notable quotation; universalizes (compares to other situations)...
 
Level E
- 25 minutes of time
- strive for 5 paragraphs
- 1.) intro paragraph: hook, topic sentence/contention, sentence summarizing the 2-4 major details of support
- 2.) 3.) 4.) body paragraphs each is a complete paragraph of 1 of 3 specific areas of support; all details support the topic sentence/contention (this is where different students can accomplish different goals 
-- slow/struggling writers, maybe 1 solid body paragraphs with 3 supports, with one sentence of explanation)
- add a sentence of commentary or explanation for each supporting detail, which explains WHY or HOW the supporting fact, detail, example, or quotation proves or supports the topic sentence/contention
- use transition sentences 
-- usually the first sentence of the new paragraph, but can also be the last sentence of the previous paragraph
- 5.) concluding paragraph which sums up the essay, plus adds a little "extra" from the students own thoughts

Level F
Like E above, but must also finish 2-4 minutes before the time is up for quick proofing of the essay for typos, capitalization, punctuation, run-on sentences, forgotten word, etc. NOTE: Be sure to make any corrections by just crossing out and writing above 
-- erasing and rewriting turns it into a black smudge, as the essay readers are given a copy, not the original, and erasures turn out black on the copies" 

2

 

I hope you find something that works, I've found writing one of more difficult topics to teach and for my kids to do. 

[Jess4879]

We just started Writing Skills A with our youngest (9).  He still has trouble remembering to capitalize a sentence.  We're just going slow and working at his pace.  I very much appreciate that Writing Skills has no grade levels and isn't "babyish" as he'd be highly offended.

Quote

 

 

[nixpix5]

I will also throw my vote in for The Paragraph Book. I really like the clearness of the program. I also really love Killgallon elementary books both the one that works on sentences and the paragraph one. Good stuff.

I also want to say 10 is not a bad place to start writing. Many writing teacher friends I have don't start their own kids on paragraphs until around this age. 

[alisoncooks]

I'll third Writing Skills, starting with Book A. It's recommended for grades 2-4, but both my girls used it in grade 5 (severe reading delays).  We adapt a few of the lessons that are writing heavy (there are a few lessons where you sort words -- nouns vs verbs, for example -- onto a chart). We just color each group a different color. 

But it has been relatively painless for my writing-phobic girls. 

[Jess4879]

2 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

I'll third Writing Skills, starting with Book A. It's recommended for grades 2-4, but both my girls used it in grade 5 (severe reading delays).  We adapt a few of the lessons that are writing heavy (there are a few lessons where you sort words -- nouns vs verbs, for example -- onto a chart). We just color each group a different color. 

But it has been relatively painless for my writing-phobic girls. 

Why did I not think to just color them??  Having a "doh" moment and pulling out the colored crayons. LOL

[alisoncooks]

Just now, Jess4879 said:

Why did I not think to just color them??  Having a "doh" moment and pulling out the colored crayons. LOL

I know, right?! My kids take one look at that long list of words and freak out. ? The coloring totally works!

[poppy]

Thank you all.  Specific, clear advice. I've ordered The Writing Book as a first step and plan to get the others as  well.   This community has made such a difference for us. It really has.

[Ausmumof3]

Just one thing that’s probably obvious but works with any writing curriculum.  Consider having her dictate to you, note down what she says then have her copy it out.  This step has been really important for my kids whose cognitive skills outweighs their writing skills as they still get practice at composing and letting thoughts flow while the mechanical skills catch up.

[PeterPan]

On September 12, 2018 at 10:26 PM, poppy said:

She cant' take ADHD meds because her anxiety is pretty severe.

Some kids' anxiety actually *improves* on the ADHD meds (I know, counterintuitive) because they're better able to do the work, meaning their anxiety and stress about the work can go down. You also might need to consider adding additional meds or running genetics to see if there's anything explaining it. Sometimes meds are DRAMATICALLY effective, like life-alteringly. Don't know that we have all the stories connected in any one thread, but this happens over and over and OVER on LC that someone with that ASD + anxiety mix puts the kid on SSRI and the kid just opens up and is so much more functional.

The alternatives on SSRI would be something like sam-E (methyl donor, run genetics first) or 5HTP (not a methyl donor, indicated if genetics show a TPH2 defect). Good reasons to run genetics. Just the $69 deal on 23andme would do. You would download the raw data, search through it or run it through free engines like at KnowYourGenetics.com.

On September 12, 2018 at 10:26 PM, poppy said:

But she can't write.  She cannot compose a paragraph. 

I haven't used the EPS materials people listed, but they're probably excellent. Anything aimed at intervention, something with RTI tiers, is going to build progressions carefully, filling in holes. I can tell you that for my ds with ASD the language issues are behind the writing. Just to check, can she do a narration? Some kids with ASD can, some can't. Just depends on how significant the effect is on language. If she cannot narrate, then you're actually going to need to back up more, to something like SKILL Narrative by Gillam. Then Mindwing Concepts (StoryGrammarMarker) sells an autism kit and a variety of materials that can work. They use symbols and make explicit how narrative language skills turn into expository writing skills. They have tons of videos and articles on their blog if you snoop around. https://mindwingconcepts.com/search?q=expository  Here's a product they sell that helps make that transition obvious                               SGM® Mini Magnets for Narrative/Expository Intervention $ 8.95                                                                                                                                                       

It looks like The Paragraph Book level 1 is on the how-to paragraph. This might interest you, since it would be similar but also bring in some life skills Cooking to Learn 1: Integrated Reading and Writing Activities BK ... I'm thinking I'll get it soon to do with my ds. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by PeterPan

[poppy]

Thanks PP, I am going to get that Cooking with Skill book.  She is fine with narration and I think will do OK with the Paragraph book (which I am going to do after the Writing Skills book as a baseline).

I also want to add, she is on an SSRI and it has been a very very good thing for her.  No more "I wish I was dead". No more hiding. She is fairly cheerful and functional. I can't imagine going back to med-free, honestly. I just don't do ADHD meds / stimulants.  We did try Tenex, the nonstimulant ADHD med, but it was really hard on her mood.  So we accommodate ADHD with patience (and homeschooling with minimal seatwork) only.

[Lori D.]

On 9/13/2018 at 2:44 AM, SporkUK said:

For freewriting,I use this which was posted on this forum but sadly I lost who wrote it between editing the notepad I saved it to and the forum update...

That was me. (:D And just as a quick note, that was the technique we used for timed essay writing from a past SAT test prompt for *grades* 8-12. I would not recommend trying this with a 10yo struggling writer. ? BEST of luck to all in moving your late elementary-aged students forward in writing! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Lori D.

[alisoncooks]

Cooking to Learn looks great -- but is it *really* $84?!  I think my youngest DD would love that, but I can't imagine spending that much money on a supplement (not a full reading program). 

[PeterPan]

On September 15, 2018 at 3:49 PM, poppy said:

Thanks PP, I am going to get that Cooking with Skill book. 

If you get it, I'd love to hear how it goes! If you get it and don't like it, I'll buy it off you. 

23 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

Cooking to Learn looks great -- but is it *really* $84?!  I think my youngest DD would love that, but I can't imagine spending that much money on a supplement (not a full reading program). 

I think for the target market, it might be more than a supplement. It would actually be pretty challenging and time-consuming with my ds, and he could use the life skills work.