Boys and girls

[Scarlett]

44 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Your latest update reminds me of the guy I had a crush on right before I met dh, around 19yo. We were very affectionate and yet, we could turn it off in a heartbeat.  My mom said it was sexual tension.   Idk, maybe she was right.  Obviously it never panned out for us and as soon as I met dh, I was a goner.   Anyway, I hope it works out well for both of them, regardless of if they get together or not.  They sound like good kids.  

I am POSITIVE there is a sexual tension component to it.  I mean--hormones, young adults...I think it is a given  And that is part of the problem.  I hope neither of them settles for that.  Because they are both great kids and they deserve to be with someone who adores them and who brings out the best in each of them and who is a good fit overall.  

[hippiemamato3]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I am POSITIVE there is a sexual tension component to it.  I mean--hormones, young adults...I think it is a given  And that is part of the problem.  I hope neither of them settles for that.  Because they are both great kids and they deserve to be with someone who adores them and who brings out the best in each of them and who is a good fit overall.  

You've said that they care for each other a great deal, get along well and are very close. It sounds to me like they've FOUND that.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, hippiemamato3 said:

You've said that they care for each other a great deal, get along well and are very close. It sounds to me like they've FOUND that.

Could be. 

[Scarlett]

She texted me at 4:00 and asked to come over tonight.  ?  

She texted me earlier to tell me her doctor appt has been cancelled AGAIN. (long story) 

[Scarlett]

Definitely not just friends.  And definitely keeping it from me.  I am very sad, sick, and don't really know how to even act around them now since it is obvious they are lying.   I Am sworn to secrecy but my info is good.  What a bad way to start out a marriage. 

[fairfarmhand]

Is this a time when you can say to your son: “ I’ve heard some stuff about you and girlfriend. Is there anything you feel you should tell me?” 

And sit there looking at him directly?

[Catwoman]

26 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Definitely not just friends.  And definitely keeping it from me.  I am very sad, sick, and don't really know how to even act around them now since it is obvious they are lying.   I Am sworn to secrecy but my info is good.  What a bad way to start out a marriage. 

 

Marriage?

What makes you think they’re talking about marriage???

Yikes.

 

[Catwoman]

Also.... Forget about being sworn to secrecy. This may be your son’s entire future we’re talking about here. Can you tell your son you know the truth without revealing who told you?  

If you think this is very serious, have you told your ex-husband what’s going on? Do you think he might be effective in discussing this with your son? 

Ordinarily, I would think this was just two teenagers secretly dating and fooling around, but I know you have mentioned that casual dating isn’t really a thing in your religion, so that’s why I’m taking this so seriously.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Before being too upset, find out *why* they hid it from you.   is it a trust issue?  Maybe they wanted to keep it quiet to avoid people talking and asking about it?  Maybe they thought you'd be mad?  Show kindness and love and acceptance, and find out the 'whys'.  And congrats!-- I know you said you like her and I'd much rather ds be with someone I like than someone I don't.  I'm blessed in this regard, too.  My ds is with a lovely girl. 

 

I can’t speak for Scarlett, but I would assume that she’s mainly worried about this because her ds is only 18 and just started college. This could be the most wonderful girl in the world and it would still make sense that Scarlett would be concerned about the possibility of her son getting married. 

I really hope it’s not as serious as Scarlett fears it is.

[hippiemamato3]

40 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Also.... Forget about being sworn to secrecy. This may be your son’s entire future we’re talking about here. Can you tell your son you know the truth without revealing who told you?  

If you think this is very serious, have you told your ex-husband what’s going on? Do you think he might be effective in discussing this with your son? 

Ordinarily, I would think this was just two teenagers secretly dating and fooling around, but I know you have mentioned that casual dating isn’t really a thing in your religion, so that’s why I’m taking this so seriously.

He's an adult at this point, and his religion is his to decide - so this really isn't something that Scarlett or her ex need to "solve" IMO. 

[Scarlett]

45 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Before being too upset, find out *why* they hid it from you.   is it a trust issue?  Maybe they wanted to keep it quiet to avoid people talking and asking about it?  Maybe they thought you'd be mad?  Show kindness and love and acceptance, and find out the 'whys'.  And congrats!-- I know you said you like her and I'd much rather ds be with someone I like than someone I don't.  I'm blessed in this regard, too.  My ds is with a lovely girl. 

The lying is what upsets me.  I have done nothing to either of them to warrant being shut out this way.  But it is on my son to tell me--I don't blame her.  HE is the one who has talked about how stupid people are who get married at 18.  HE has been really upset at two of his friends who are clearly romantically involved but refused to admit they are dating.  

I have seen the writing on the wall with these two.....for well over a year I have been very conscious of how I speak about her and to her.  I have been kind to her and about her.  There is zero reason for him to think I would be mad.  I even had a conversation him a few weeks back that there would be no reason for them to hide their relationship...they are adults.  But apparently that is the reason he is giving her....that I would be so mad I would kick him out.  

[Catwoman]

9 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

He's an adult at this point, and his religion is his to decide - so this really isn't something that Scarlett or her ex need to "solve" IMO. 

 

He’s only 18. 

Technically, that may make him an adult, but many of us who are parents to 18yos realize that these are still just kids who live at home and go to school and maybe have part time jobs. Some 18yos are living on their own and supporting themselves. Scarlett’s son is not one of those 18yos, so I can certainly understand why she is concerned.

The only reason I mentioned religion is because I know Scarlett’s religion discourages casual dating, and I was trying to view the situation through that point of view.

[Scarlett]

49 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I can’t speak for Scarlett, but I would assume that she’s mainly worried about this because her ds is only 18 and just started college. This could be the most wonderful girl in the world and it would still make sense that Scarlett would be concerned about the possibility of her son getting married. 

I really hope it’s not as serious as Scarlett fears it is.

Oh I am certain it is serious.  That is a fact I have known for a while.  It would not be my choice for him to get married at 19 but I have no delusion that I can control that.  But I can't deal with this secrecy and lying.  I don't deserve that.  I thought maybe they were just not admitting it to themselves.  But they are.  They are making wedding plans.  

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The lying is what upsets me.  I have done nothing to either of them to warrant being shut out this way.  But it is on my son to tell me--I don't blame her.  HE is the one who has talked about how stupid people are who get married at 18.  HE has been really upset at two of his friends who are clearly romantically involved but refused to admit they are dating.  

I have seen the writing on the wall with these two.....for well over a year I have been very conscious of how I speak about her and to her.  I have been kind to her and about her.  There is zero reason for him to think I would be mad.  I even had a conversation him a few weeks back that there would be no reason for them to hide their relationship...they are adults.  But apparently that is the reason he is giving her....that I would be so mad I would kick him out.  

 

Could it be that he doesn’t want to marry her and he wants the relationship to be more casual than she does, so he’s using you as an excuse not to get more serious?

[hippiemamato3]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The lying is what upsets me.  I have done nothing to either of them to warrant being shut out this way.  But it is on my son to tell me--I don't blame her.  HE is the one who has talked about how stupid people are who get married at 18.  HE has been really upset at two of his friends who are clearly romantically involved but refused to admit they are dating.  

I have seen the writing on the wall with these two.....for well over a year I have been very conscious of how I speak about her and to her.  I have been kind to her and about her.  There is zero reason for him to think I would be mad.  I even had a conversation him a few weeks back that there would be no reason for them to hide their relationship...they are adults.  But apparently that is the reason he is giving her....that I would be so mad I would kick him out.  

Is it possible he has picked up on your judgment about her weight and other issues that the family has? It was only a couple of weeks ago that you weren't sure he could be attracted to her because she is overweight. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Could it be that he doesn’t want to marry her and he wants the relationship to be more casual than she does, so he’s using you as an excuse not to get more serious?

I doubt it.  They bonded at about age 15 over their parents bad divorces.  But what I strongly encouraged my informant to get across to this girl is that she is too valuable to be someone secret.  

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Oh I am certain it is serious.  That is a fact I have known for a while.  It would not be my choice for him to get married at 19 but I have no delusion that I can control that.  But I can't deal with this secrecy and lying.  I don't deserve that.  I thought maybe they were just not admitting it to themselves.  But they are.  They are making wedding plans.  

 

Oh dear. 

I posted above before I read about the wedding plans.

How will they support themselves?

I think it’s time for you to sit down and talk to him about this and if he lies to you, call him out on it. I definitely think your ex needs to know about this as well, particularly since he seems very concerned that your ds get a college education.

Scarlett, I know you and I have disagreed on a few things lately, but I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. You must be worried sick and so hurt, too. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Oh dear. 

I posted above before I read about the wedding plans.

How will they support themselves?

I think it’s time for you to sit down and talk to him about this and if he lies to you, call him out on it. I definitely think your ex needs to know about this as well, particularly since he seems very concerned that your ds get a college education.

Scarlett, I know you and I have disagreed on a few things lately, but I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. You must be worried sick and so hurt, too. 

Well since he won't talk to me about it I have no idea what their plans are for supporting themselves.  My xh and I have talked about them.  We both know they like each other.  

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Well since he won't talk to me about it I have no idea what their plans are for supporting themselves.  My xh and I have talked about them.  We both know they like each other.  

 

It sounds like a lot more than “like.” 

 

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

It sounds like a lot more than “like.” 

 

Well yes, obviously.  But they both claim to be just friends.  His dad and I and my Dh and my mom....and a few more close friends all know differently.  

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well yes, obviously.  But they both claim to be just friends.  His dad and I and my Dh and my mom....and a few more close friends all know differently.  

 

How do you know they are making wedding plans? Who ratted them out? 

[goldberry]

DD's fiance was like this with his parents.  He previously had a very close relationship with them, yada, yada, but when he started dating DD he told them almost nothing.  He later told his dad it was because he wanted to work through his feelings on his own, and didn't want outside input because he didn't want that all mixed in with his own feelings.  I dunno, guy thing?  It did serve to alienate his parents from DD, though, because they felt like he "sprung her" on them.  To them, "all of a sudden" they were engaged.  DH and I had seen it coming for two years.

But Scarlett, knowing the environment, what you described doesn't surprise me at all.  When dating is viewed only as getting to know a potential marriage partner, and I'm not saying that's wrong, but it's a tremendous amount of pressure.  All of a sudden the business of the boy and girl seems to become the business of the whole congregation, and there is a lot of pressure and inuendo.  Whether it works or doesn't work is now a public topic for conversation.  And if it doesn't work, there is always speculation. I believe in the general principle of not dating for "fun" or playing with someone's heart, but there could definitely be less pressure put on the young people.  I see every reason why they would not want it public knowledge.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

How do you know they are making wedding plans? Who ratted them out? 

An aunt.  My close friend.  Apparently the girl told her mom and the mom told her sister--my friend.  Maybe wedding plans is not exactly accurate.  But a definite plan to get married a year from now.  

Girl expects to settle a legal suit and get a fairly big payout.  So maybe they think they can buy a house with that.  You know how pie in the sky kids in love can be.  

The fact that they want to get married isn't the shocking part. What is shocking to me is the plan to keep it from me.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, goldberry said:

DD's fiance was like this with his parents.  He previously had a very close relationship with them, yada, yada, but when he started dating DD he told them almost nothing.  He later told his dad it was because he wanted to work through his feelings on his own, and didn't want outside input because he didn't want that all mixed in with his own feelings.  I dunno, guy thing?  It did serve to alienate his parents from DD, though, because they felt like he "sprung her" on them.  To them, "all of a sudden" they were engaged.  DH and I had seen it coming for two years.

But Scarlett, knowing the environment, what you described doesn't surprise me at all.  When dating is viewed only as getting to know a potential marriage partner, and I'm not saying that's wrong, but it's a tremendous amount of pressure.  All of a sudden the business of the boy and girl seems to become the business of the whole congregation, and there is a lot of pressure and inuendo.  Whether it works or doesn't work is now a public topic for conversation.  And if it doesn't work, there is always speculation. I believe in the general principle of not dating for "fun" or playing with someone's heart, but there could definitely be less pressure put on the young people.  I see every reason why they would not want it public knowledge.

I don't think that is the reason.  They are saying the reason is because they fear I will kick him out.  

Lots of their friends are dating and getting married.  There is zero reason to hide it.  And I definitely think it is him not her hiding it.  What you said about your dd's boyfriend is probably what is going on him him.  

But I am pretty annoyed, hurt etc.. I don't like games.  I don't like liars.  

[Catwoman]

I have to admit that I would be incredibly shocked at the marriage part, but I would also be very hurt that they apparently told the girl’s mom and they didn’t tell you, too.

Maybe they assume you won’t approve and that you’ll try to talk them out of it? I can’t imagine your son really believing you’ll kick him out of the house.

I’m surprised at your son, because you two have always seemed very close.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Catwoman

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Wow. OK, there's a lot I don't understand or agree with about church and family dynamics here, but, to be fair to Scarlett:

What does that mean, they're afraid she will kick him out because he wants to get married? What did they think should happen, that his bride should move in and be supported by his parents, too?

A rather important element of getting married is leaving your folks' house and supporting yourselves. Right? 

So what is this talk about him being kicked out? So he's out. Fine. Get married.

I am sleep deprived due to excessive requirements of my attention as I launch young adults, myself, so if I am missing the point, someone tell me bluntly but nicely...

Edited August 22, 2018 by Tibbie Dunbar

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don't think that is the reason.  They are saying the reason is because they fear I will kick him out.  

Lots of their friends are dating and getting married.  There is zero reason to hide it.  And I definitely think it is him not her hiding it.  What you said about your dd's boyfriend is probably what is going on him him.  

But I am pretty annoyed, hurt etc.. I don't like games.  I don't like liars.  

 

I guess that’s why I’m so shocked — none of the 18yos my son knows are even remotely thinking about getting married, and their parents would be absolutely mortified if any of them got married before they finished college and graduate school.  I mean, it could happen (particularly if a girl got pregnant,) but it would definitely be the exception to the rule and not the norm among the kids we know.

But casual dating isn’t discouraged among the people we know, either, so that probably plays a big part in kids not feeling the need to get serious to the point of planning marriage. Future marriage isn’t assumed when people start dating.

[fairfarmhand]

THE young lady needs to consider that her young man was afraid to make his mommy Mad. That’s not mature thinking there. That’s not really being a man. He didn’t want to acknowledge the existence of a girlfriend. He’s comfortable with deception. All kinds of “not ready for marriage” immature red flags going up. 

 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

Wow. OK, there's a lot I don't understand or agree with about church and family dynamics here, but, to be fair to Scarlett:

What does that mean, they're afraid she will kick him out because he wants to get married? What did they think should happen, that his bride should move in and be supported by his parents, too?

A rather important element of getting married is leaving your folks' house and supporting yourselves. Right? 

So what is this talk about him being kicked out? So he's out. Fine. Get married.

I am sleep deprived due to excessive requirements of my attention as I launch young adults, myself, so if I am missing the point, someone tell me bluntly but nicely...

Well, that I would kick him out today I guess. 

[hippiemamato3]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Well, that I would kick him out today I guess. 

Would you? 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

THE young lady needs to consider that her young man was afraid to make his mommy Mad. That’s not mature thinking there. That’s not really being a man. He didn’t want to acknowledge the existence of a girlfriend. He’s comfortable with deception. All kinds of “not ready for marriage” immature red flags going up. 

 

This is exactly what I told my friend.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, hippiemamato3 said:

Would you? 

No. And I have done nothing to make him think that.  And the more I think on this the more I think he is just too immature to own it.  

[Scarlett]

And course since I am hearing this third or fourth had there is the possibility things are getting lost in translation.

[hippiemamato3]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

No. And I have done nothing to make him think that.  And the more I think on this the more I think he is just too immature to own it.  

I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your son, but I would not continue living with the pretense of a lie. I'd let him know that you know. And I'd ask him what his plans and intentions are. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, hippiemamato3 said:

I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your son, but I would not continue living with the pretense of a lie. I'd let him know that you know. And I'd ask him what his plans and intentions are. 

Well this is what I am kicking around in my mind.  I am just blown away.  I did tell him a few weeks back that it seemed like he wasn't being honest.  But my friend swore me to secrecy .....it's her sister after all that confided in her.  

I do know I can't live this way for long.  

[Catwoman]

 

Just now, Scarlett said:

And course since I am hearing this third or fourth had there is the possibility things are getting lost in translation.

 

I hope so!

Your son doesn’t normally lie to you, right? 

What makes you believe he would do something as life-altering as making wedding plans without telling you about it? 

If he’s dating the girl and thinks you will disapprove because of your religious beliefs, it’s still not great that’s he’s lying, but at least it is a little more understandable than if he’s lying about something that will change the entire course of his life.

[hippiemamato3]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Well this is what I am kicking around in my mind.  I am just blown away.  I did tell him a few weeks back that it seemed like he wasn't being honest.  But my friend swore me to secrecy .....it's her sister after all that confided in her.  

I do know I can't live this way for long.  

I think you can let him know you know without calling out your friend. Obviously it's not a secret from everyone, so it makes sense that you'd find out somehow. I hate dishonesty. I feel sick for you. This would bother me too much to let it lie. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by hippiemamato3

[goldberry]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

But I am pretty annoyed, hurt etc.. I don't like games.  I don't like liars.  

 

One thing I have learned at this age is that it is REALLY not personal.  I doubt it was even seen in his mind as "lying" to you, but more just a really strong drive to keep this private between her and him and not deal with whatever the possible repercussions from you were going to be.  He knew you would ask him all the questions that he wouldn't have answers for, and say all the things he was not interested in hearing.  Yes it is ridiculously immature think that avoiding that makes the issues go away.  But they are trying so hard to figure out their own feelings and sort through all the things.  That part alone is overwhelming and consuming.  It's hard, because I think it's normal to feel hurt, but it's really true that it's not about you anymore once they get to a certain age.  

[goldberry]

6 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your son, but I would not continue living with the pretense of a lie. I'd let him know that you know. And I'd ask him what his plans and intentions are. 

 

I wouldn't do that honestly.  I would start with reassuring him that he is an adult, that you will respect his decisions, but you just want to be there for him.  That it makes you sad (not hurt or angry, but sad) that he might think he has to go through something without sharing it with you because he is afraid of your reaction.  That he is your son and you are not going to react drastically to something even if you might disagree with it, or he thinks you might disagree with him.  In other words, don't confront him as in "you lied to me you really are in a relationship", but confront him in a way that says "I know what's going on and it's really okay to tell me".    Asking him bluntly what his plans and intentions are when he is not comfortable telling you will not make this any better.

[alisoncooks]

I'll just throw this out there: I was the 18/19 yr old who totally kept my parents in the dark re: a serious relationship. They were totally blindsided when I got engaged (and I'd only known this guy 6 months). I did not tell them we were serious, that we were talking marriage, nothing. 

I just felt that it was...private. Idk. I wasn't comfortable talking about it, and I honestly didn't see that it was their business. (I would NOT be happy if my kiddo did this, lol.)  I didn't want to talk about it because it wasn't up for debate. My dad has a *strong* personality (though loving) and I just didn't want the confrontation. 

[hippiemamato3]

1 minute ago, goldberry said:

 

I wouldn't do that honestly.  I would start with reassuring him that he is an adult, that you will respect his decisions, but you just want to be there for him.  That it makes you sad (not hurt or angry, but sad) that he might think he has to go through something without sharing it with you because he is afraid of your reaction.  That he is your son and you are not going to react drastically to something even if you might disagree with it, or he thinks you might disagree with him.  In other words, don't confront him as in "you lied to me you really are in a relationship", but confront him in a way that says "I know what's going on and it's really okay to tell me".    Asking him bluntly what his plans and intentions are when he is not comfortable telling you will not make this any better.

I was assuming a good, close relationship between mom and son, and that son would ultimately be relieved mom knows and would then talk to her (which is what would happen here). If they aren't that close, your advice is likely better. 

[goldberry]

2 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I was assuming a good, close relationship between mom and son, and that son would ultimately be relieved mom knows and would then talk to her (which is what would happen here). If they aren't that close, your advice is likely better. 

Even if they are close, which it seems like they are, son has made it clear he doesn't want her to know.  He is not comfortable *for some reason*.  He is also at an age where he is trying to claim his privacy and his boundaries.  That should be respected as much as possible I think.  One approach respects that, one approach doesn't (in my opinion only!)

[hippiemamato3]

Just now, goldberry said:

Even if they are close, which it seems like they are, son has made it clear he doesn't want her to know.  He is not comfortable *for some reason*.  He is also at an age where he is trying to claim his privacy and his boundaries.  That should be respected as much as possible I think.  One approach respects that, one approach doesn't (in my opinion only!)

Once it's out in the open, I see nothing wrong with lovingly showing your interest in their plans. I think maybe you're putting a different spin on my post than I intended. 

[unsinkable]

6 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I was assuming a good, close relationship between mom and son, and that son would ultimately be relieved mom knows and would then talk to her (which is what would happen here). If they aren't that close, your advice is likely better. 

How old are your kids? Do you have teens or young adults?

I've known families where there is a period of time with older kids when the openness kind of wanes..

[hippiemamato3]

Just now, unsinkable said:

How old are your kids? Do you have teens or young adults?

I've known families where there is a period of time with older kids when the openness kind of wanes..

19 and 16 year old sons. I have no reason to think that my son will pull away from me - it started out as just me and him, and there's little we haven't talked about. I could be wrong I suppose, but I honestly doubt it. 

[goldberry]

3 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Once it's out in the open, I see nothing wrong with lovingly showing your interest in their plans. I think maybe you're putting a different spin on my post than I intended. 

It's out in the open because someone else told Scarlett under a condition of secrecy.  But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

 

[hippiemamato3]

2 minutes ago, goldberry said:

It's out in the open because someone else told Scarlett under a condition of secrecy.  But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

 

I mean once she tells him she knows, it will be out in the open. He can then choose how open to be, but at least she won't be living with this awful feeling. 

[goldberry]

1 minute ago, hippiemamato3 said:

19 and 16 year old sons. I have no reason to think that my son will pull away from me - it started out as just me and him, and there's little we haven't talked about. I could be wrong I suppose, but I honestly doubt it. 

I have a 19 year old who has been stuck like glue to me, and has (mostly) shared her every thought with me since she was 5.  She still has moments and decisions that she wants to be "hers" now, that she does not want my input or discussion on.  It's healthy I think.  Although of course she picks the times that I most wish she would be listening to me. ?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

One can be more matter of fact about it, which is more effective with teens than sorrow and disappointment, anyway. My tack would probably sound like this:

"Son, you know I respect your judgment and I love you unconditionally. You can tell me anything, but you also know my long history of not forcing you to tell me everything. I respect your privacy. And you know I like Tiffany.

What you may NOT know is that one or both of you have behaved in such a way that the rumor mill has you practically engaged and scared to tell me about it. Do what you will with this information. If that is not what you want people to think, deal with it. If gossip doesnt bother either of you, ignore it. If you are in trouble and need help getting it sorted out, let me know."

Smile. Leave it there for him to respond or not.

[hippiemamato3]

Just now, goldberry said:

I have a 19 year old who has been stuck like glue to me, and has (mostly) shared her every thought with me since she was 5.  She still has moments and decisions that she wants to be "hers" now, that she does not want my input or discussion on.  It's healthy I think.  Although of course she picks the times that I most wish she would be listening to me. ?

And I think that's totally normal and expected.  A huge decision like marriage isn't something that would be hidden here. But our religion doesn't prohibit casual dating  and doesn't encourage young marriage...so I think there's more going on here between Scarlett and her son that adds a different layer of struggle.