considering pulling my special needs 14 year old - sage advice desired :)

[christien]

i am considering pulling my 14 year old (7th grade - public school).  she has a myriad of issues and is well below grade level.  she is currently not passing any core subjects, but they're going to promote her to 8th grade.  

i am considering pulling her (again), but we are like fire and gasoline and difficult conversations tend to end with us both angry and / or frustrated.  i pulled her in 5th grade for the same reason (well below grade level and she is definitely a quirky kid) and she worked for me for about 3-4 weeks then simply stopped working, so she went back to PS.  

i'm currently HS my 9 year old son and it's going well.  they're about on the same level, so i'd more than likely be teaching them together.

i'd love some insight.  thanks!

[Lecka]

Can you try to get her more services at school?

What are your goals for her?  

Are there things that are working out for her at school, or beneficial for her at school, apart from academics?

I think it is going to depend on a lot of things.  It can also be your family’s preference.

I also think you need to think about your younger son.  Will pulling her have a negative impact on him?  His needs do count, too.  If they get along well then that could be a positive impact for him.  

[Ravin]

My first concern would be, how demoralizing will it be for her to work on the same level as her little brother? My DS is on the verge of catching up my DD in math skills. Teaching them in that area together would go over like a lead weight. At 14, a kid is more likely to be successful if they have buy-in to their education. What does your DD want to do, go to 8th grade with a good IEP in place (does she have a good IEP in place?) or home school? If the latter, what does she think that would look like?

We put my DD in school in 6th to see if she did better there than at home, and because she wanted to go. In some ways it was great, in others it was a disaster, and we made the decision to pull her with her consent at the beginning of 7th. She's homeschooled since, we gave her an extra year, and she's starting public high school in fall with an IEP in place.

I've long since come to the conclusion that my relationship with my DD is more important than whether she ever masters algebra or develops an appreciation for the importance of studying history.

[PeterPan]

Can you get private evals? If she's that behind in the ps, then you have the IEP process too. Just depends on what you can make happen. Once you put quirky on the table, then you're wanting to ask if there's ADHD, spectrum, social thinking deficits, language deficits. Nuts, you could put methylation issues on the table when you've got fire going on. She could have ADHD and be depressed (pretty common for that age).

What won't probably work any better is bringing her home without better explanations and approaches. So private psych evals where you screen for EVERYTHING and put it all on the table, and maybe milk the school system while you're at it to see what they can do. Or get those extra evals privately if you can make them happen. Language testing would be good. SLPs can run the Social Language Development Test, the Test of Narrative Language, etc. 

Does she have any areas that are going well or areas of strength or special interest? If you're going to bring her home, make sure there's some positive like that.

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, Ravin said:

My first concern would be, how demoralizing will it be for her to work on the same level as her little brother?

Amen. Don't do that. Not in a million years. If that's what is needed, she needs evals.

Btw, for the op, a bunch of us here on the boards have been through the IEP process. So if you haven't done that, that's something you can talk here. I fought for *4 years* to get a good IEP for my ds. They sorta slid us in till we finally got where we were going. You don't have that long, lol. Anyways, it's a process people here are conversant on.

[christien]

school is not working with us.  they make promises that they do not keep ("I'll send the answer key to the study sheet so she can have it for finals." -- a weekend and Monday later, still do not have it and final is tomorrow.  promises of sending completed notes home so she could study, not fulfilled.  we've had multiple meetings and still no cooperation, even when they say they will.

i think i have very simple goals for her -- to know enough math and be able to write and speak well enough to get by in life.  she loves history/social studies - can look at a flag and tell you the country, etc.  so we'd focus on that.

she gets along well enough with brother -- normal sibling stuff, but they tend to play together well more than they fight, so i actually see this as a positive for him as well - it will give him someone to play with when we're home - besides me.  :) 

[MysteryJen]

Do you have evaluations and at least a 504 in place? If not, you need to start with evaluations. There is virtually no way to get help from schools without the force of those plans. My dd2 has a 504 and STILL has to talk to every teacher before every in-class exam and has involved her counselor at least twice this semester in order to get the minimum accommodations listed on her 504.

If she has all her paperwork and is not getting what the paperwork says she is entitled to, then you need to start talking to the principal and the Special Ed coordinator for your school district.

[christien]

the problem is - she HAS an IEP.  every meeting we've had lately -- there's has resulted in a "we already do that, there's no need to add to the IEP".

she's been academically evaluated and she's literally at that level -- 4th-ish grade math and maybe lower reading / comprehension.  last conversation with her teachers (yesterday) state she's not doing anything in class - literally, just sitting there.  when asked what she wants to do, answer ranges from "i don't know" to hair stylist to physician.

socially, she is about 10-11 years old and has been hanging with "undesirables" - i hate using that word, but they are leading her down a path that we don't want her going.  kind of a "i dont give a flip" attitude since she's been hanging around them.  and i know it's bound to get worse as they get older.

she's been diagnosed with general anxiety, reactive attachment, a bit of ADHD thrown in.  her therapist decided to retire and we're seeing the new one at the beginning of July.

getting the good IEP is the issue.

[Ravin]

9 minutes ago, christien said:

the problem is - she HAS an IEP.  every meeting we've had lately -- there's has resulted in a "we already do that, there's no need to add to the IEP".

she's been academically evaluated and she's literally at that level -- 4th-ish grade math and maybe lower reading / comprehension.  last conversation with her teachers (yesterday) state she's not doing anything in class - literally, just sitting there.  when asked what she wants to do, answer ranges from "i don't know" to hair stylist to physician.

socially, she is about 10-11 years old and has been hanging with "undesirables" - i hate using that word, but they are leading her down a path that we don't want her going.  kind of a "i dont give a flip" attitude since she's been hanging around them.  and i know it's bound to get worse as they get older.

she's been diagnosed with general anxiety, reactive attachment, a bit of ADHD thrown in.  her therapist decided to retire and we're seeing the new one at the beginning of July.

getting the good IEP is the issue.

 

The best response I can think of to "we already do that, there's no need to add to the IEP" is a firm "I want it formally in the IEP anyway, please." I didn't understand that a few years ago.

Fostering hanging out with better friends is definitely important. We have anxiety, mood disorder NOS and ADHD thrown in also. Does she go to the IEP meetings? Does she have anything she loves to do that you can work off of? My DD currently has cosmetology and tattoo artist as future career plans, which is fantastic in my book. She's not college bound, and those are better options than flipping burgers or ringing up groceries for 40 years. 

Why is she just sitting there? Is she shutting down (anxiety)? Does she learn better one on one? Are there any private schools you might be able to apply for a voucher to pay for since the PS is doing such a lousy job? The reality check is, she might spin her wheels at home just as much as at school, and it's hard to shelter a 14 year old socially whether they are in school or not, kwim? Better to keep the lines of communication open so that when she sees where things are going with problem friends, she has support so that she can choose to distance herself on her own. 

One factor with IEP's and accommodations as kids get older is, they have to learn to advocate for themselves with teachers or it doesn't much matter what's on paper. That's a big concern I have with DD next year. 

 

[MysteryJen]

3 hours ago, Ravin said:

 

The best response I can think of to "we already do that, there's no need to add to the IEP" is a firm "I want it formally in the IEP anyway, please." I didn't understand that a few years ago.

Fostering hanging out with better friends is definitely important. We have anxiety, mood disorder NOS and ADHD thrown in also. Does she go to the IEP meetings? Does she have anything she loves to do that you can work off of? My DD currently has cosmetology and tattoo artist as future career plans, which is fantastic in my book. She's not college bound, and those are better options than flipping burgers or ringing up groceries for 40 years. 

Why is she just sitting there? Is she shutting down (anxiety)? Does she learn better one on one? Are there any private schools you might be able to apply for a voucher to pay for since the PS is doing such a lousy job? The reality check is, she might spin her wheels at home just as much as at school, and it's hard to shelter a 14 year old socially whether they are in school or not, kwim? Better to keep the lines of communication open so that when she sees where things are going with problem friends, she has support so that she can choose to distance herself on her own. 

One factor with IEP's and accommodations as kids get older is, they have to learn to advocate for themselves with teachers or it doesn't much matter what's on paper. That's a big concern I have with DD next year. 

 

3

Re:bolded. My dd2 has found that she needs to constantly speak up and advocate for herself. It is hard and wearying for a teen.

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, christien said:

the problem is - she HAS an IEP.  every meeting we've had lately -- there's has resulted in a "we already do that, there's no need to add to the IEP".

she's been academically evaluated and she's literally at that level -- 4th-ish grade math and maybe lower reading / comprehension.  last conversation with her teachers (yesterday) state she's not doing anything in class - literally, just sitting there.  when asked what she wants to do, answer ranges from "i don't know" to hair stylist to physician.

socially, she is about 10-11 years old and has been hanging with "undesirables" - i hate using that word, but they are leading her down a path that we don't want her going.  kind of a "i dont give a flip" attitude since she's been hanging around them.  and i know it's bound to get worse as they get older.

she's been diagnosed with general anxiety, reactive attachment, a bit of ADHD thrown in.  her therapist decided to retire and we're seeing the new one at the beginning of July.

getting the good IEP is the issue.

She's adopted?

[ElizabethB]

I would evaluate why she is reading below grade level.  If she was taught with a lot of sight words and incomplete phonics, it may be easier than you think to get her to grade level, although depending on her MWIA slowdown she may need a lot of nonsense words to be truly proficient.

Give the MWIA version 3, or the MWIA version 3 short if she has a short attention span, and also evaluate her ability to read nonsense words. The MWIA and the nonsense word test are linked at the end of my syllables page:

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On Reading/syllablesspellsu.html

It is also possible that she has a phonemic awareness problem or vision problem that are causing her problems, there are vision problems that only a COVD optometrist can diagnose but can be fixed with vision therapy.

 

[Heathermomster]

My eldest came home 7th grade.   Prior to homeschooling, I thought through all of son's strengths and weaknesses so that I could select appropriate teaching materials.  He was evaluated by a local COVD and OT to ensure there were no underlying issues.

DS was not pleased to be home, but he knew that the private school was unwilling and unprepared to accommodate him.  DS and I negotiated.  He wanted to keep up with his friends, so I promised to make every effort to connect him with them.  There were subsequent play dates/sleep overs, and he was allowed a STEAM account.

Writing instruction was an area of contention.  I hired an OG certified writing instructor who specifically worked with dyslexics, and she taught DS writing 7th and 8th grades.  I then purposefully selected multi-sensory teaching materials.  If a curriculum didn't work after a month, I replaced it with something else.

I don't know a thing about reactive attachment disorder.  I assume that you are working through those issues with a competent therapist.  Maybe, speak with the therapist to come up with a plan.  We have several moms on this board that have adopted children, so I'm hoping they will contact you back channel.  

I'm with ElizabethB.  You need to determine why she is not reading and then remediate and accommodate with audio books.  If you can discern specific issues with learning, provide the forum with subject grade levels and we can make specific curriculum recommendations for you.  If you can set up a support system for yourself locally, that would be awesome.  I meet with ladies for coffee every couple of weeks.  I also speak with a friend at an appointed time weekly.

Good luck!

[City Mouse]

There are some board members that have posted in the past about RAD, you might want to search for those posts.

my thoughts - are you the main "target" of her RAD? If so, is there another person who could do school with her when she is going throuh a particularly difficult time? I I do think that it sounds like you could do a much better job with her academically, that will only happen if she is willing. If the home gets turned into a war zone, then neither child gets educated.

[6wishes]

I would first decide if you really want to homeschool. If not, and you’d keep her at school if only she had a well written IEP that was followed, you have a different issue.  I would suggest if your goal is to keep her at school that money would be well spent in hiring a good advocate.  This could be an attorney, but there are also good parent advocates who understand the system, the language, etc.  Secondly, has she had a good evaluation in the last 3 years?  If not, you can ask the school for another evaluation,and if they refuse or come back with results, you can file for an IEE (Independent Education Evaluation) where they foot the bill. Thirdly, I would put all correspondence in writing and keep copies, and send an email to give current status to all conversations you’ve had with them and their verbal responses back to you. Going forward, no longer have verbal conversations.  Fourth, call a meeting to rediscuss all of your concerns, and audio record it-and tell them you’re audio recording it.  Have a written list of all of your questions and concerns you want addressed, and make a copy for each person there.  You need documentation supporting what you’ve discussed and what their response has been. For sure raise your concerns that if things aren’t formalized in the IEP, anything can change at any time with any teacher.  You also what things formalized for future college decisions and accommodations.

I speak of this from my own experience of filing due process against my own district and and my state’s department of education, and winning.  There is a lot of helpful parent information on the wrightslaw.com website as well.

[Pen]

Does she want to come home and is she committed to doing her best to cooperate with you for homeschool?

 If yes, then ok to try, but it may not go well. Especially with RAD.  And I’d start over summer with reading and maybe some math to get an idea if you can make it work  

If not, I would look for a better option if any: Some other school for example. 

If no other option exists where you are, then I suggest working with the school she is at. 

 

How intelligent is she? 

In my state they no longer hold kids in a grade till it is passed. And 14 is oldest age they’d have in 7th grade. Don’t know if that is the same elsewhere. But it would not surprise me. They move up in official grade level which applies to field trips and so on, but work more often in SPED for academics. Ultimately the kids who  stay below passing their classes through high school cannot get a regular diploma and maybe not even a modified one. But they remain eligible for help via the school into their early 20s.

I am  currently reading a book trying to understand why my son shuts down and won’t try which though more oriented to boys could be relevant to your dd. It is called “He’s Not Lazy: Empowering Your Son.

The Explosive Child  might also be relevant even if your dd does not rebel by exploding as it is not clear which of you is the gasoline and which the fire, but either way it may help  

 

[Pen]

Are there any tech ed schools she could go to? A military school with more structure?

[Pen]

On 5/22/2018 at 9:26 AM, christien said:

 

getting the good IEP is the issue.

 

That could help.  Especially with the study sheets they aren’t sending home and so on.  Can you go in every day or every few days and go around to her teachers to get those things they are not sending? 

But only if she too cooperates. She may be shutting down with them like she did with you when you tried to teach her. 

She may not have the basics mastered enough to use the study sheets even if they send them or you pick them up.