S/O question: If you don't have THAT kind of marriage, how do you make it . . .

[TraceyS/FL]

Any-hoo. Yada yada yada. Chalk this up to another ramble on my part.:tongue_smilie:

 

I dunno - it made sense to ME, not sure what that says about me then 'eh? :tongue_smilie:

[Sweetpeach]

I generally hesitate to reply to some of these threads . . . and FTR, as I've stated over and over again, I don't stand in judgement of those that make hard choices because it's hard either way; staying or leaving bring intense challenges. Sometimes life/marriage just sucks right. out. loud. and I've lived on the blade of the sword . . . we were one step away from throwing in the towel . . . except that we had three children and were desperate to break the generational pattern of divorce in our family.

 

This is to encourage Colleen that her ramblings make pretty good sense!

 

Quoting from The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: The 25 Year Landmark Study by Wallerstein, Lewis & Blakeslee.

 

"One of the many myths of our divorce culture is that divorce automatically rescues children from an unhappy marriage. Indeed, many parents cling to this belief as a way of making themselves feel less guilty. No one wants to hurt his or her child, and thinking that divorce is a solution to eveyone's pain genuinely helps. Moreover, it's true that divorce delivers a child from a violent or cruel marriage. However, when one looks at the thousands of children that my colleagues and I have interviewed at our center since 1980, most of whom were from moderately unhappy marriages that ended in divorce, one message is clear: the children do not say they are happier. Rather, they say flatly, "The day my parents divorced is the day my childhood ended."

 

A bit further on, "What most parents don't realize is that their children can be reasonably content despite the failing marriage. Kids are not necessarily overwhelmed with distress because Mommy and Daddy are arguing. In fact, children and adults can cope pretty well in protecting one another during the stress of a failing marriage or unhappy intact marriage."

 

To finish, "The notion that all or even most parents who divorce are locked into screaming conflict that their children witness is just plain wrong. In many unhappy marriages, one or both people suffer for years in total silence - feeling lonely, sexually deprived and profoundly disappointed. Most of the children of divorce say that they had no idea their parents' marriage was teetering on the brink."

 

I do believe our marriage should be a reflection of Christ's union with the Church, but ours is not and just sticking it out based on my faith isn't what keeps me going. It's more what Peela said: Changing the momentum would take a lot of effort, a lot of upheaval, and I'm not up for it. I don't want to put my kids through it, either. Which is not to say I think people should always and ever stay in a marriage purely for the sake of the children. But despite what is, more often than not, a complete lack of communication and connectedness between my husband and myself, our boys have a good life. We have a good life. An easy life when compared to so many, many people in the world. Goodness! It isn't as if my life, our life, is all hand-wringing and woe. We have an abundance of good times, as a family, and yes, even Hans and me once in a blue moon.

 

I don't believe changing our life drastically so I can actually be a single single person, rather than a married single person, is in everyone's best interests. And change, for us, would be very drastic indeed. The fact that we're partners in a business, that my husband is not a U.S. citizen ~ these things would serve as further complications.

 

No, it's just not worth it. On the other hand, I seem to have reached a point wherien nothing relating to my marriage seems worth it. I find that the more I just tune it out, the happier I am, strange as that may sound. I don't know that I'm even wired to be married.

 

Any-hoo. Yada yada yada. Chalk this up to another ramble on my part.:tongue_smilie:

[kalanamak]

 

Quoting from The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: The 25 Year Landmark Study by Wallerstein, Lewis & Blakeslee.

Rather, they say flatly, "The day my parents divorced is the day my childhood ended."

"

 

In an unexpected moment of honesty, hubby's 25 year old daughter wrote that she (at age 16) was full of pride that she was from an undivorced family (so many at her boarding school were not), and that when she got the very sudden news mom wanted out, she "wanted to die", and contemplated suicide. She has also plainly stated she hasn't forgiven them for divorcing.

Looking in on this family, I think that the parents have recovered, but the children have not.

 

And in a jump-shift of thought, the other day my boy, 6, suddenly said this in the car:

 

"You used to be married to X."

"Yes."

"But he didn't want to keep you."

"No, he didn't want to keep me."

Pause. "That is very sad."

"But if he'd kept me, you wouldn't have been born."

Silence. I don't know that I've ever had the last word in a conversation with him, so his lack of reply was significant.

I have no idea where he got the phrase "didn't want to keep you", and I've never discussed divorce with him. It was a very surprizing conversation, and made me see that he has more understanding of the workings of adults than I did at that age.

[Peek a Boo]

Quoting from The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: The 25 Year Landmark Study by Wallerstein, Lewis & Blakeslee.

 

"One of the many myths of our divorce culture is that divorce automatically rescues children from an unhappy marriage. Indeed, many parents cling to this belief as a way of making themselves feel less guilty. No one wants to hurt his or her child, and thinking that divorce is a solution to eveyone's pain genuinely helps. Moreover, it's true that divorce delivers a child from a violent or cruel marriage. However, when one looks at the thousands of children that my colleagues and I have interviewed at our center since 1980, most of whom were from moderately unhappy marriages that ended in divorce, one message is clear: the children do not say they are happier. Rather, they say flatly, "The day my parents divorced is the day my childhood ended."

 

A bit further on, "What most parents don't realize is that their children can be reasonably content despite the failing marriage. Kids are not necessarily overwhelmed with distress because Mommy and Daddy are arguing. In fact, children and adults can cope pretty well in protecting one another during the stress of a failing marriage or unhappy intact marriage."

 

To finish, "The notion that all or even most parents who divorce are locked into screaming conflict that their children witness is just plain wrong. In many unhappy marriages, one or both people suffer for years in total silence - feeling lonely, sexually deprived and profoundly disappointed. Most of the children of divorce say that they had no idea their parents' marriage was teetering on the brink."

 

My parents divorced when i was young, but it wasn't "the day my childhood ended." It was the jerk she married after that ;)

 

I stayed because of the kids for a dozen years. 'arguing' doesn't even begin to describe the power plays and control issues.

 

"The notion that all or even most parents who divorce are locked into screaming conflict that their children witness is just plain wrong."

....was ABSOLUTELY TRUE in my house.

 

when the kids are upstairs crying because we're screaming downstairs - that's not good.

When my oldest runs down in tears to a friend's house -- that's not good.

When even my 2d ds at four years old chastises daddy because 'God didn't make you to say words like that" -- they are witnessing quite a bit.

When we're driving TO CHURCH having a horrible argument and dh is telling me to 'stay out of my face you little c*nt" and i squeeze my juice box all over him, they are witnessing quite a bit.

When dh has smashed the phone to bits and is screaming at oldest *and his visiting friend* while they are trying to put up a tent for a sleepover *because I was going to sleep outside w/ the younger kids in a separate tent* - and then after the officer leaves my 7yo asks 'what was daddy doing w/ the gun" there are some serious issues that the kids are sick of.

SICK of.

 

 

I filed because of the kids this past July.

I can put up w/ all kinds of carp --it wasn't until it was being directed at the kids that i put my foot down.

 

and the reason i shared this?

because we certainly didn't come across as 'that kind of marriage' at church and out and about --our pastor was floored. NOT a Clue.

 

and if I had left when the kids were younger? they wouldn't understand either.

My youngest will [hopefully] have no recollection of this side of his dad.

So there's no way one could accurately judge the effect of our divorce VERSUS me staying from a kid that was just upset he didn't get to live in a 'family' situation. Now if they were to interview my oldest kiddo that would be a bit different:

 

In an unexpected moment of honesty, hubby's 25 year old daughter wrote that she (at age 16) was full of pride that she was from an undivorced family (so many at her boarding school were not), and that when she got the very sudden news mom wanted out, she "wanted to die", and contemplated suicide. She has also plainly stated she hasn't forgiven them for divorcing.

Looking in on this family, I think that the parents have recovered, but the children have not.

--------------

It was a very surprizing conversation, and made me see that he has more understanding of the workings of adults than I did at that age.

 

Yes, they do.

Before filing, i actually broke the news to my 14yo --I asked him if he would have any problems w/ me divorcing dh [not that i needed his approval, but i did want to get his thoughts for counseling purposes later]. He stood up a little taller like a weight had been lifted off his shoulders and said emphatically 'NO, i would not." That wasn't what i was expecting, but it showed yet another example of what the kids had been going through.

 

The next couple days was the most relaxed I had ever seen him: it was incredibly stressful for ME, but he was reassured that Mom was FINALLY putting an end to the crap that had been going on in the home.

I could see the disappointment in his eyes and body language when i told them we were still proceeding w/ the divorce for legal protection reasons but were going to try to reconcile as much as possible.

 

The next couple weeks I saw the worst behavior issues in my oldest --blatant disregard for rules that we had not had a problem with before and were being repeated after groundings and corrections. I discussed it w/ a couple close friends and we finally figured out the issue: I sat down one-on-one w/ ds and told himthat as long as dh was earning the second chance, i was going to support him in that effort, BUT I also assured him that i was remaining vigilant for signs of relapse in dh and would be sure to NOT let the carp that had been happening before be resurrected.

 

The [mis]behavior STOPPED COLD after that.

 

so yeah --i'm sure there are manymanymany marriages where the kids don't have a clue. In mine -- they not only had a clue, but a desire to see it STOP.

 

We were modeling a horrible marriage for my kids: that HAD to stop.

We could probably link a lot of studies about how kids tend to mirror their parents' roles when they move on to their own marriages - there was NO WAY i was going to let that happen. I would be setting them up for failure. i would be training them -by default- in the way they SHOULD NOT go.

 

So far they are learning --and dh is teaching them at bible lesson every morning now-- that life requires action, and that sometimes those actions are unpleasant. But those actions may be what is needed to keep a dying entity from completely passing away.

 

The GOOD news is that my oldest has gone from being relieved I was finally getting them out of this situation to calling me to the carpet for being a b*tch to dh a few weeks ago, lol ;)

 

I hope the cycle w/ dh is broken, but I won't really know for a couple years. Until then, the legal divorce --and spiritual reconciliation-- proceeds.

[Plucky]

(((Peek))), marriage and divorce is so complicated. Thank you for sharing. It's so easy to see things from only our own perspective. You know I asked my dh for a divorce once so I do understand that things can be complicated. That was the wake up call my dh needed and things are so much better here (I had to do my share, too. sigh). If my kids were affected the way you describe it, I would've been gone. I hope you all can move forward towards healing and much happiness.

[Peek a Boo]

(((Peek))), marriage and divorce is so complicated. Thank you for sharing. It's so easy to see things from only our own perspective. You know I asked my dh for a divorce once so I do understand that things can be complicated. That was the wake up call my dh needed and things are so much better here (I had to do my share, too. sigh). If my kids were affected the way you describe it, I would've been gone. I hope you all can move forward towards healing and much happiness.

 

well, i didn't exactly ask ;)

 

thanks tho-

[Danestress]

about you is your willingness to be very transparent and honest, even when the truth isn't all nice and tidy and bolstering to the image of "perfect Christian wife and mother." Life is hard. It just really seems to me that someone who is willing to be so discerning and vulnerable is capable of real intimacy and devotion. I hope that Hans will rediscover the old things or find new things to adore about you, and you him, and I just honestly think that someone with that character for honesty about your own motives will be okay in the long run.

 

And I understand what you are saying. The truth is, divorce is messy and expensive for almost everyone. It turns one's life upside down. It hurts. It leaves you bewildered and often broke. And out of favor with people whose opinion you legitimately value.

 

While for some people, it might be the best option in the long run, I think that a lot of people wouldn't do it if they understood the price they would pay (emotionally, financially, in terms of time with children, etc). Which isn't to say that they shouldn't do it - I'm not judging one way or the other.

 

I honestly believe that God created us to have real love and intimacy, passion and adoration in our marriages. I don't buy for one minute the idea that we should all be satisfied with recognizing duty and adherence to vows and some sort of passionless love based on shared commitment and experience. I do believe, honestly, in "falling in love" and I think that's something God put in our hearts for a really good purpose in his original creation. So when I hear people talk about how marriage isn't really meant to be about passionate love, I think it's total baloney. That's not the whole picture, but it's a legitimate part of what could be. I think God created marriage for a lot of reasons, but because he loves us, real, passionate love is part of that and it's okay to want that. In fact, I think when you kill in yourself the belief that marriage should include passion and excitement, you kill something beautiful. Rather than kill what is in your heart, I think you have to nurture it, because from it flows the wellspring of life. (Prov. 4:23)

 

But what to do when the passion (or even liking the person) isn't there? I don't really know. I know you are working it out day be day, and I admire you.

 

Dana

Edited November 15, 2008 by Danestress

[Peela]

Peek, thankyou for sharing what you are going through.

One of the things that has been very important to me is standing up to any form of bullying so that I model to my kids, especially my daughter, that it is never ok and I was never going to succumb to it.

I did leave for 18 months, and my kids were really fine- it was far less stressful and their dad had a better relationship with them, and eventually, with me. No matter what "studies" show, every case is unique. We reconciled but some issues are still there.

What happens when a dh uses the studies showing the damage to children of divorce, to manipulate the dw into staying, without changing his behaviour? Guilt. I have suffered from lots. Very hard to know what the best thing to do is when you feel guilty about the kids- but undermining self confidence is a control technique. Dh used to literally tell me I could never live without him, financially, mainly. Well, that proved untrue and it empowered me a lot to learn that I could.

We keep growing and that's the best we can do.

[Rosie_0801]

Most of the children of divorce say that they had no idea their parents' marriage was teetering on the brink."

 

Then there's the ones who do. Some even ask their parents why they are still together... Mine weren't arguing or having screaming matches, either.

 

Rosie

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Very hard to know what the best thing to do is when you feel guilty about the kids- but undermining self confidence is a control technique.

It's that sneaky abusive behavior that works all too well, and they need to be called out for it.

[Lovedtodeath]

I honestly believe that God created us to have real love and intimacy, passion and adoration in our marriages. I don't buy for one minute the idea that we should all be satisfied with recognizing duty and adherence to vows and some sort of passionless love based on shared commitment and experience. I do believe, honestly, in "falling in love" and I think that's something God put in our hearts for a really good purpose in his original creation. So when I hear people talk about how marriage isn't really meant to be about passionate love, I think it's total baloney. That's not the whole picture, but it's a legitimate part of what could be. I think God created marriage for a lot of reasons, but because he loves us, real, passionate love is part of that and it's okay to want that. In fact, I think when you kill in yourself the belief that marriage should include passion and excitement, you kill something beautiful. Rather than kill what is in your heart, I think you have to nurture it, because from it flows the wellspring of life. (Prov. 4:23)

 

But what to do when the passion (or even liking the person) isn't there? I don't really know.

 

Falling in love and being in love are completely different. Psychology and chemistry prove it. Falling in love can be addicting, and that addiction can cause many, many problems. I am in love with my DH. But, I am not always passionate about him. I'd say, maybe 30-50% of the time I am, and this is the best our marriage has ever been. I have had other relationships and this is the best one. I just want to insert some realism.

[Sweetpeach]

Hey Hivers, just to clarify, I posted that snippet because it may have applied to what Colleen shared and it speaks to how I felt in my lowest lows.

 

I fully recognize and agree that when a marriage is abusive (and I know something about it because my father was a very abusive man towards my mom) that divorce is the only option. I'm forever thankful that I didn't have to live with my dad. It would have ruined me.

 

The little snippet of the book I offered here was only for Colleen and not to make anyone feel less than ok because they had to file for divorce. Abuse, regardless of what it looks like or how it plays out, is all the way wrong and sometimes there is no hope for change.

 

I would never want you to think I'm in the camp of "stay, regardless."

 

Warmly, T

[Danestress]

Falling in love and being in love are completely different. Psychology and chemistry prove it. Falling in love can be addicting, and that addiction can cause many, many problems. I am in love with my DH. But, I am not always passionate about him. I'd say, maybe 30-50% of the time I am, and this is the best our marriage has ever been. I have had other relationships and this is the best one. I just want to insert some realism.

 

I think I am realistic. I've been married a pretty long time and had a career as a divorce attorney (and I'm married to one, too) and I don't think I have my head in the clouds.

 

Maybe we need a definition of 'passion' because I was not talking about lust or physical longing, exclusively. I feel passionately about my children. Passion, for me, is maybe about the intensity of the feelings? And nothing in my post indicated that I think you are supposed to walk around feeling passionately in love every minute. Mostly we live life on a fairly mundane plane.

 

I just object to the notion that actually loving the other person isn't a normal part of marriage and that somehow the notion of "love" as a part of marriage is some new fangled Western idea that has ruined what marriage really is. I think marriage without passion, adoration, love, pleasure in the other person, is very second best. I wouldn't counsel someone to just end it when those things are absent, but I would beg a daughter not to marry someone when those things were absent to start with, and I would advise her to really work at keeping those things alive.

 

We all go through stages when the passion just isn't really there. And that's okay. But I think rather than saying, "well, marriage isn't supposed to be about really loving the other person in a feeling kind of way, it's about a choice to commit," I think we should be on our knees praying that God would help us really truly love the other person - to renew that sense of passion and affection. Yes, the commitment and promise keeping are very important. It's all that sustains us when the "feelings" feel dead. But I don't think it's unrealistic to say that God wants us to really truly love each other, to nurture that love, and to enjoy it.

 

And for a small dose of real reality, I look at my parents. Dad has Alzheimer's. He a mess - physically and mentally. My mother loves him, but what is getting her through this is commitment and some kind of love that really isn't about enjoying the other person or feeling attracted or passionate. But you know, as a Christian, I don't believe that Alzheimer's was part of God's original plan. We live in this fallen, broken world that has disease and sickness, fighting and sorrow, ugliness and sin. So this is part of that. In this broken world, most of us aren't going to find the kind of love that God designed us for. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't long for it and pray for it. Likewise, this world is short on justice, mercy, beauty, and grace. But I still believe that those are things the world needs and that God created us to desire those things and to be unhappy without them. We long for them and that longing sometimes leads us to the Lord.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Danestress

[HRAAB]

 

I honestly believe that God created us to have real love and intimacy, passion and adoration in our marriages. I don't buy for one minute the idea that we should all be satisfied with recognizing duty and adherence to vows and some sort of passionless love based on shared commitment and experience. I do believe, honestly, in "falling in love" and I think that's something God put in our hearts for a really good purpose in his original creation. So when I hear people talk about how marriage isn't really meant to be about passionate love, I think it's total baloney. That's not the whole picture, but it's a legitimate part of what could be. I think God created marriage for a lot of reasons, but because he loves us, real, passionate love is part of that and it's okay to want that. In fact, I think when you kill in yourself the belief that marriage should include passion and excitement, you kill something beautiful. Rather than kill what is in your heart, I think you have to nurture it, because from it flows the wellspring of life. (Prov. 4:23)

 

Dana

 

Yes. :iagree: I believe God created our passion and placed those passions in our heart. Passion is part of our human experience. Now, passion can be directed towards good or bad, but it is a part of us. And I believe God instituted marriage to allow us to let our passion for love and intimacy grow and develop. I don't necessarily equate passion with sex, but that is definitely a part of it. I 'think' I would feel very cheated if I didn't feel passion for my dh. I have a passionate affection for him. I believe our feelings and passions are valid, but need to be discerned carefully. No, we can't always run on feelings, but I think we need to pay attention to our feelings and not dismiss them.

 

Janet

[Colleen]

I dunno - it made sense to ME

 

Glad to know my ramblings are semi-coherent.;)

[Jill- OK]

No, we can't always run on feelings, but I think we need to pay attention to our feelings and not dismiss them.

 

Janet

 

...that like everything, there's a balance.

 

It would be nice to have those feelings, and nothing is impossible with God, but a lack of those feelings doesn't have to be the end of the world.

 

That's what I'm trying to say to encourage those who, as addressed in the thread title, don't have 'that' type of marriage, and may not ever have it.

 

Not people who 'go through seasons', or have left an abusive marriage, but people who would love to have the kind of reciprocity that others here on the board talk about, in other threads, and simply don't.

 

People who have read a ton of books, tried every manner of 'positive thinking' and release through prayer, and still don't have 'that' kind of marriage.

 

Folks who aren't talking about the same thing that I am might think that it's helpful to give yet more book titles, testimonies about how they didn't stay, etc., and it might be, for some people reading. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from posting their thoughts.

 

But there are people here who have been crushed time and again by continuing to hope that those wonderful, God-given desires will be realized in the relationship they're in, and who need to hear advice from others in a similar boat about dealing with it, and flourishing in the absence of that *feeling* of love. Not women who are dealing with abuse, or situations where their children aren't safe, but are nevertheless in a great deal of pain, and are exhausted from trying to glean what they need from both the standard Christian "If you'll just do A and B, you'll get that Loving Feeling", or opposite extreme of "If you're not getting love, you need to leave".

 

It's my hope that amidst all of the encouragement for the other 'sides' and points of view, that women will still continue to post their practical advice for making the best of a marriage that doesn't have that traditional 'love' feeling anymore.

 

There's no guarantee of anything in this life, even if you're a Christian. I agree that God loves us, and that the ideal example of marriage would mirror his love for us and the oneness we have in Christ.

 

But people are broken, and it takes two to tango. You can do everything right and your partner might still choose to believe/act differently. You can still hope, and believe...but you can do it with an assurance that marital bliss isn't the end all, be all in your life. And practical advice is helpful, many times, for 'walking out' hard ideas like that. As a Christian, my true hope should always lie in the Lord, and if/when my earthly relationships don't line up with what God's best for me might have been intended as...I can still learn from them, and I can still turn to Him for that fellowship I long for.

 

This isn't all directed at you, Ishki, I'm kind of responding to your thoughts and those of several others; it just happened to fall here. :-) I'm also not ranting or anything, just in case my tone isn't readily 'heard', just trying to keep a voice going for answers to the original thread's question.

 

Because there's a need for advice of that sort. It's not easy to get.

[Colleen]

A bit further on, "What most parents don't realize is that their children can be reasonably content despite the failing marriage. Kids are not necessarily overwhelmed with distress because Mommy and Daddy are arguing. In fact, children and adults can cope pretty well in protecting one another during the stress of a failing marriage or unhappy intact marriage."

 

Yes, in the case of my children, I believe they are emotionally stable despite the fact that their parents are not happy with one another. As the excerpt you shared states, not all marital strife is outwardly obvious. On the other hand, the older children get, the more attuned they are to what's going on (or not) just below the surface. Total lack of communication between the two adults in a home is not normal, for example. I wish my children were witnesses to a marriage partnership that displayed love, respect, and friendship. What a wonderful model that would be for them. Although I had such a model and it hasn't been particularly helpful in my own life, so...who knows. I pray that God will bless my boys with contentment in their lives.

[Colleen]

Dana, thanks so much for this post. Your words of encouragement are very meaningful to me.

[Colleen]

As you know, Jill, I could've written your post. It's so, so difficult to explain this reality to those who haven't experienced it. People knowingly say, "We all have different seasons in marriage..." ~ and while that is true, the moment I hear those words, I confess I tune out a bit. Because for some of us, it's not a matter of seasons. It likely sounds as if I/we are saying, "I'm settling for less in my marriage" ~ but it's not that. It's accepting what is. It's realizing that for some of us, "that" kind of fulfilling marriage may never be our reality ~ but life can still be good.

[HRAAB]

There's no guarantee of anything in this life, even if you're a Christian. I agree that God loves us, and that the ideal example of marriage would mirror his love for us and the oneness we have in Christ.

 

But people are broken, and it takes two to tango. You can do everything right and your partner might still choose to believe/act differently. You can still hope, and believe...but you can do it with an assurance that marital bliss isn't the end all, be all in your life. And practical advice is helpful, many times, for 'walking out' hard ideas like that. As a Christian, my true hope should always lie in the Lord, and if/when my earthly relationships don't line up with what God's best for me might have been intended as...I can still learn from them, and I can still turn to Him for that fellowship I long for.

 

 

I think my thoughts were more on some conversations I've been involved in recently - not on this board - and the post I responded to said something that I've been trying to articulate for myself about feelings and passions. But that isn't particularly helpful as a response to the OP.

 

I was interested in reading these responses because although my marriage is good, it hasn't always been good. I remember feeling like the women you described - wanting, desiring, praying for that kind of marriage. You do everything right, read the right book, and your marriage will be the one made in heaven. No matter how hard I tried, it just didn't seem to ever work. I didn't leave for different reasons: the children, all the time and effort I had put into the marriage, because basically I don't believe in divorce and couldn't justify that for me, because of the commitment I made in front of God, because it would have taken so much work to change everything. Maybe it was God that kept me there. Although I had mentally packed my bags I never followed through on it.

 

Somewhere along the line I stopped expecting him to change. I basically would have described myself as a single person living with this man. I had my life, and he had his. I also had to let him be a less than perfect human. I think I had put all my faith in my husband, and he let me down. I had to put my faith back in God and trust Him with my marriage and recognize Him as a part of our marriage - a marriage triangle.

 

Anyway, little by little it started to improve to where it is today. It seems when I let go of my dh, he started to change. And I needed to change, too. It wasn't all his fault; I didn't help the marriage for a long time. My dh comes from a very large family, and there's a there's a lot of divorces in the family. Not trying to point fingers and lay guilt, but my dh's family didn't have a very good example of how a healthy marriage works. I wouldn't say it was just a season that we were going through, but it was something that needed some real fundamental changes for the marriage to work. I feel very blessed because our marriage could have easily ended up in divorce like some many in his family, and I do credit God and His grace for where we are today. Thankfully, my dh was open to praying and allowing God to work in him.

 

I've always been passionately in love with him. When the marriage was bad, it hurt so much. I would think to myself how much easier it would be if he didn't stir up so much emotion in me. I agree a passionate marriage can't be the end all - if you're a Christian the end all has to be your faith in Jesus and His promises. I still believe that feelings and passions are important but obviously not all is going to be perfect here on earth. We make the best of it. Plus a lot of that might be personality. I tend to be a very passionate person whether it's my marriage, or faith, or my children - I go about it with a vengeance.

 

My dh's sister and her dh live apart, in different towns (two residences they're maintaining). They see each other maybe 1 to 2 times a month. No divorce, in fact I can't even say their marriage is unhappy, but they're just fine with not seeing each other more often. I don't see a lot of passion or feeling (from the outside), of course I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Seems like a disconnected marriage to me. My point is that they're okay with it, it works for them, and it's not my place to criticize it, but I don't think that would have worked for me over the long haul. People are different and do what they need to do. God never promised us paradise here on earth.

 

Janet

Edited November 16, 2008 by Ishki

[Lovedtodeath]

I think I am realistic. I've been married a pretty long time and had a career as a divorce attorney (and I'm married to one, too) and I don't think I have my head in the clouds.

 

I was not trying to disagree with you or call you unrealistic, just to clarify further. :D And now you have. Good.

[Peek a Boo]

Hey Hivers, just to clarify, I posted that snippet because it may have applied to what Colleen shared and it speaks to how I felt in my lowest lows.

 

I fully recognize and agree that when a marriage is abusive (and I know something about it because my father was a very abusive man towards my mom) that divorce is the only option. I'm forever thankful that I didn't have to live with my dad. It would have ruined me.

 

The little snippet of the book I offered here was only for Colleen and not to make anyone feel less than ok because they had to file for divorce. Abuse, regardless of what it looks like or how it plays out, is all the way wrong and sometimes there is no hope for change.

 

I would never want you to think I'm in the camp of "stay, regardless."

 

Warmly, T

 

i think you're fine ;)

 

something that i always came back to in the years i was researching our own situation [counselors, books, tracking the cycle, actual options, scripture, realistic expectations, coping mechanisms, etc], was that even if i obtain a legal divorce, God still sees us as married. God's will is not decided by a legal document. God's definition of divorce and the law's definition are not always in agreement. That actually gave/gives me a lot of comfort in this situation.

 

I originally was ok w/ however dh would respond: move out, screech about the house, etc. His reaction to do 'whatever it takes, including a divorce' was a HUGE first step. So yeah, our situation is kinda wierd, but it is working well for us :D ....So far!

 

good luck to all you other ladies out there--

[KidsHappen]

Wow! I just want to thank you wonderful ladies for your honest and heartfelt answers. This is one of the few times in my life when I have asked a complicated question and feel like I got an answer that I could actually understand and that made sense to me.

 

I have been married for quite a while now. So I understand that marriages have up and downs. My current marriage went through a rough patch that lasted about five years. But my dh and I have one of those mad, passionate, can't-breath-without-you kind of relationships, so that is what got me through the rough times. I knew that we were just having a rough patch and that things would get better some day.

 

I also experienced some form of abuse in my previous marriage so I also understand the dynamics of how a woman ends up staying in that sort of marriage. I did not truly realize the extent of the problems until I actually left the relationship. This was a private form of abuse so my children were not actually privy to much if any of what was going on. My son was very angry about the divorce and I don't know if he has ever forgiven me for it. As an adult he asked me a direct question related to the situation and I answered him as honestly as I possibly could without getting in to too many details so I am thinking that he must of had some idea and I think that at the very least he may be developing some understanding of the problems. But I, to this day, still wonder if my son would have been better off if I had toughed it out. It is a very hard choice to make. I admire anyone who has to make these tought choices and manages to do so in a way that works for them and their children.

 

And while I am not religious, I do understand and can respect a religious convenant.

 

It was the people that did not fall into these categories that I was really wondering about and I especially appreciate your answers. I really have to admire you ladies as I am just now reaching a point in my life where I feel that I could make such a mature and responsible choice. Thanks you so much for sharing. I wish you all of the possible peace and happiness that you can hope for. :grouphug:

Edited November 17, 2008 by KidsHappen
arrrg! Typos.