Parent of 11th grader looking for guidance (LONG :) )

[kirag714]

Hi! I’ve been lurking for a while but this is my first post! Please bear with me because it will be a bit long!

I am currently homeschooling my 17 year-old daughter for 11^th grade, and she’ll be completing 12^th grade as a homeschooler as well. We kind of “backed into” homeschooling, and only started midway through this year (in December). She started High School at an excellent public magnet school in Philadelphia (Central HS), and was doing extremely well, but had an emotional crisis in the middle of 10^th grade and was dealing with extreme anxiety and school avoidance. She finished 10^th grade in a cyber school (also with excellent grades), with the plan of returning to Central for 11^th grade in their IB program. Well, she wasn’t emotionally ready for that and ended up leaving shortly after the beginning of the year; cyber school also was not working and by November it became clear that she needed some space to figure things out and we decided to switch to homeschooling. It was definitely not her first choice, but she was depressed and drowning and needed to take a step back. Now she is doing MUCH better emotionally, and the space we gave her to sort things out made a huge difference.

Because she started homeschooling midway in the year, we have ended up cobbling together her schedule for this year. Thanks to all the resources out there (and lots of reading on this forum and others!), and due to lots of hard work on her part she’s going to be able to complete US History, Chemistry, Spanish 3, English, and get ½ credits for PE, Music and Creative Writing (some of these were combined with the classes she had started online before switching). In addition, she will be completing the first ½ of Pre-Calculus with a plan to finish the class during the summer so that she can do Calculus next year. Finally, we are working with an evaluator who is accredited with Erie County Homeschoolers Diploma Program, and she will be fulfilling their requirements to earn an “honors” designation in both English and Social Studies.

However, all of these classes are truly “cobbled together” – for example her English class is my design (she reads like crazy and writes well so not a problem), Math is a combination of Khan Academy and Math-U-See, Spanish is using a program I own called Fluenz, etc. With the late start (and the other issues she was dealing with), she was unable to register for DE classes, or the AP classes available online. Next year can obviously go differently, but I’m almost overwhelmed with the options out there and would love some help in navigating things.

She will likely score VERY well on the SAT which she’ll be taking May 5^th (probably between 1400-1500), and she’ll also be doing some SAT subject tests – planning to start with English and US History in June, and then do an additional 1 or 2 in the fall. She also is feeling well enough now to step back into an amazing opportunity she has for an internship with a professor at the UPenn Museum (fingers crossed – the professor was very patient and understanding with her and hopefully the opportunity is still available).

Basically she is an extremely smart, motivated student who had a very badly timed emotional crisis! She’s my youngest of four, so I’ve been through the college admissions process several times, but never on my own. I honestly have no idea how a college admissions committee is going to look at a student like her!

Her dream school is Barnard, and it’s very hard for me to judge if that’s completely off the table now. She’s OK with a year or two of CC before heading to a four-year school (although she does not want to do that locally which complicates things), but I think with excellent SATs and a good schedule next year she could actually have a lot of good options. (I do know enough to “downplay” the emotional crisis reasons for homeschooling – I’m pretty good at putting a positive spin on things!)

Is there anyone else out there with a similar story who could give me a sense of how things are likely to play out? And would anyone be willing or able to help guide me through our best options for her for next year? I also feel a bit overwhelmed by needing to fulfill the guidance counselor role on the Common App and other places, but I have faith that I’ll be able to figure it out once I get into it.

I realize that my questions are not really clear . . . I guess I just feel so grateful that she’s gotten to the point she’s gotten to, but I don’t want to “mess up” the next steps for her by not giving her the right kind of guidance as she goes forward.

Maybe what I need the most is people who have walked this path before to tell me that everything is going to be all right :) – but any more substantive thoughts would also be appreciated! Thank you! I have learned so much from reading these forums and I'm grateful that this resource is available.

[Lanny]

Did she take the PSAT/NMSQT during October 2017 when she was in 10th grade?     My DD will also take the SAT on May 5th.  I believe the best study preparation for the SAT is on Khan Academy, because of their official tie-in with the College Board, and, it is Free.

Good luck to your DD!

 

[kirag714]

She was in 10th grade in 2016 and did take the PSAT then and did well. Unfortunately she missed out on taking it last fall because she was in transition with schools at that time.

She is doing Khan Academy SAT prep and that's where my estimate of her score came from (first practice test she scored 1410). So I have my fingers crossed that she will do well next week - she's generally a good tester which is a blessing under the circumstances. Good luck to your DD as well!

[GoodGrief]

Yep, I've been through college admissions with a teen who had struggled emotionally and was in and out of various programs. She did a year of full time public high school (after homeschooling through 8th grade), a semester of half public/half homeschool, a semester of full time homeschool, 11th grade on Rotary exchange out of the country (with some extra homeschool courses to complete on the side during that time), then a senior year of dual enrollment at a private college with extra homeschooled courses! Her homeschooled courses were primarily put together by me, with the exception of math.

Having been through this already with several kids, you are way ahead of where I was as far as college admissions. She was our first, and I let her just take the reins during the process. It worked out okay, but we could have done better financially. I assume you are aware of what you can and cannot afford, and the way that aid works having done this before?

First and foremost, the focus needs to be on her mental health and ongoing treatment. This is a chronic illness which can become much worse once she goes away to college, so there needs to be a huge emphasis on getting the treatment plan and her coping strategies in place now.

Since your daughter tests well, I think it is wise to do a fair number of standardized tests. My daughter got extremely stressed out by testing, so only had the one SAT. It was a fine score, but I think she would have ended up on fewer waitlists with some validation via testing of the content of her large number of creatively titled homeschool courses.

The whole college admission thing has lots of moving parts. If you are able, I'd plan to act as her secretary through it all. Organize her resume now with dates, awards, activities, and such, so that it is readily available for reference when filling out apps. Help her identify a list of schools, and put a true financial and academic safety that she likes on there. Colleges will often release the essay questions over the summer, and I'd encourage her to start working on those as they become availabe. All of this is to avoid a stressful time crunch in the fall, which can feel overwhelming to a person who already struggles emotionally. Encourage her to avoid procrastinating because you just never know what distractions can pop up. My daughter met her now-husband a couple weeks before regular decision deadlines. That did not contribute positively to the quality of her apps!

Also, though it may be tempting to talk about her mental health in essays, I'd approach that with caution, unless she can end the essay on an overwhelmingly positive note. The colleges are concerned with liability, and you just never know how the topic will be received. It's not an absolute "no", but be very very cautious.

My daughter got worse before she got better after college started. But the good news is that she got through in four years, and is very stable now. In considering colleges, I'd look at what services are available in the area. Think about transportation, and how she would get to appointments. Do not count on the school's health services to be able to provide adequate care. They are typically overwhelmed with students.Look at their disability services and what they could offer your daughter if she has a crisis. Also think about how quickly you can get there if there is a problem.

[kirag714]

GoodGrief1 - thank you so much for your detailed response! I so appreciate your perspective. One real advantage I do have because of my experience with college admissions, is I do understand and trust the process of it. I know that her goals and objectives will likely change numerous times during the process, and I am just hoping to keep enough options in play that we can adjust as things change.

What I am most thankful for in our decision to homeschool, is that she has been able to give her mental health the focus that it has needed. She has a wonderful therapist who she sees weekly, and also (somewhat reluctantly at first - she is such an introvert!) has been taking part in a DBT group. In addition she sees a psychiatrist about once/month as we try to find the right medication for her. Finally, being able to get 8-9 hours of sleep a night has been priceless! While she still has quite a few anxiety/depression symptoms, her coping skills have improved so much - and that is what I am happiest about. She can now continue to do some work even on her "bad days," and is really starting to push beyond her comfort zone with her activities and goals. I'm super proud of her!

I've done a lot of research on schools already, and compiled a spreadsheet with dates, requirements, etc. Up to this point Ally has been too resigned about her future to think about this too much, but that has shifted in the past few weeks and I think we'll be doing some college visits in the next few months. She definitely wants to leave our state for college, which seems random to me (PA has so many good colleges!) but I'm letting her set her own criteria. However, I think focusing on schools within a 4 hour drive will be wise. My older kids all went much further away (including my middle daughter who also had major anxiety in HS as well as epilepsy - and is in Colorado at Colorado College!), but I think closer will be better for this one!

I do not think she will want to touch her mental health in her essay with a ten foot pole! The essay will be a project for this summer, and I am going to try to find her an online or in person workshop that will help her with that process.

We do need to start work on her "resume" which will be better than she thinks it is! While this year has been a bust for ECs, she participated in quite a few in 9th & 10th grade, and this internship would be a coup as well - it's with a well-known forensic anthropologist who is a professor at Penn and has a lab at the Penn Museum. Ally could have started it last fall but she was just too overwhelmed emotionally; she really wants to try it again and if the professor is willing this will make a big difference for her in many different ways! 

I do need to watch my tendency to want her to jump into everything now that she is feeling better. We are discussing next year now, and it's going to take some work to find the right balance, particularly with the stress of the college admission process. Fingers crossed that she does well enough on the upcoming SAT that she can be "one and done!"

Thanks for your tips about college! I'm so glad your daughter is doing well now - this is such a challenging burden for our children, and sometimes they need to be heroic just to get through the day. I love hearing the stories with good outcomes!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I agree with the things GoodGrief suggested. 

I would look at all the admissions requirements for each school now. Which require teacher recommendations? Which have extra writing prompts? Do any weigh interest  (look at the Common Data set for that one)?

Have her look now at the Common App or college specific essay prompts, even if she doesn't tackle them until summer. That will let her mull over the prompts a little. 

Meanwhile you can work on pulling together the transcript, school profile, and course descriptions. My older kids had a real mix of online, home brewed,  and dual enrollment classes.  I had one transcript and one set of course descriptions that pulled it all together.  Then we also had official transcripts sent from any school that was accredited (for us just the DE colleges).

 

You can do this.  Make sure she applies to a range of schools including schools that are academic and financial safeties. 

[RootAnn]

PA Homeschoolers has an online class (no live meetings) to help with writing the admissions essay. I don't know anything about it, but thought I'd pass the info along as things with that teacher tend to fill up quickly.

[katilac]

On 4/27/2018 at 12:13 PM, kirag714 said:

 Her dream school is Barnard, and it’s very hard for me to judge if that’s completely off the table now. She’s OK with a year or two of CC before heading to a four-year school (although she does not want to do that locally which complicates things), but I think with excellent SATs and a good schedule next year she could actually have a lot of good options. 

 

 

Yes, she will have a lot of good options, there are tons of great schools out there and a whole world in between Barnard and community college. My first focus would be to try and get her excited about additional colleges and to try and downplay the idea of a dream school. Not because Bard is now off the table, but because admission to even moderately competitive schools can be a bit of a crapshoot, and the idea of a dream school can keep you from noticing other awesome options. Summer is not ideal for college visits but I'd probably go ahead and fit in a few - we did a few unofficial ones over the years at holidays and breaks, basically walking around on our own, and it did help. We were able to see if the school had a stereotypical campus look (which my kids wanted), how walkable it was, and how friendly/helpful random student workers were when random unofficial visitors asked them questions - UCF got top marks for this when we showed up during Thanksgiving break, lol. 

If she's okay with a year or two of community college anyway, has she considered a 5th year of high school if she has a good dual enrollment situation? My kids DE's on the main campus of a local university; if that's an option for her, it might feel a bit more exciting and more like 'moving on' than CC.  Mine chose to do this and forgo SAT subject tests and it wasn't a problem.  There's also so many more interesting xcs for older teens, and she missed out on some of them. It's worth thinking about what a 5th year might look like. 

One thing to consider about going away is that an excellent airport with tons of cheap flights can make a longer distance just as feasible, particularly if she won't have a car on campus (if you have to go get her, it's 8 hours each way, not 4). 

Edited because I have no reading comprehension this morning, and Bard and Barnard are different schools.

 

[kirag714]

11 minutes ago, katilac said:

If she's okay with a year or two of community college anyway, has she considered a 5th year of high school if she has a good dual enrollment situation? My kids DE's on the main campus of a local university; if that's an option for her, it might feel a bit more exciting and more like 'moving on' than CC.  Mine chose to do this and forgo SAT subject tests and it wasn't a problem.  There's also so many more interesting xcs for older teens, and she missed out on some of them. It's worth thinking about what a 5th year might look like. 

That's an interesting idea - thanks! We have just begun to explore the DE options for next year, which includes a local CC, but also includes two other interesting options that I only discovered yesterday: a nearby small university that is well-known for specific programs (Arcadia Univ), and the nearby Penn State branch (Penn State Abington). All options are within a twenty minute drive of our house. If she decides to try one or two classes there and likes them, then she might be open to spending an additional year doing classes there. We'll see! I'm in the process of reaching out to them to see what they make available for High School DE students.

However, I would say that she's pretty focused on leaving home in 18 months, either for regular college, a CC elsewhere, or a good gap year program. In my experience, letting go of the "dream school" is part of the whole college admissions process as she begins to widen her point of view on what would be a good fit for her. She knows Barnard (or other top tier schools) are a crap shoot, and I am pretty sure that she will be able to ultimately be open to all the different possibilities. She's had to let go of many things during her high school journey, since things have definitely not gone according to her mental plan! I think that this is just the next step for her, and she'll figure out what's best on her own timeline as we go through the process of looking at different schools.

Thanks also to RootAnn and Sebastian for your suggestions! I am looking at that PA Homeschoolers class to help her with her essay, but we have to see if the timing will fit into our schedule. And I have a very large and comprehensive excel spreadsheet I've created with all the schools we are currently thinking about, along with their requirements. I'm basically trying to recreate my experience with using Naviance with my middle daughter, who applied to colleges from a prep school - so I have requirements, dates, check boxes etc. It's been very helpful!
 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

3 hours ago, kirag714 said:

That's an interesting idea - thanks! We have just begun to explore the DE options for next year, which includes a local CC, but also includes two other interesting options that I only discovered yesterday: a nearby small university that is well-known for specific programs (Arcadia Univ), and the nearby Penn State branch (Penn State Abington). All options are within a twenty minute drive of our house. If she decides to try one or two classes there and likes them, then she might be open to spending an additional year doing classes there. We'll see! I'm in the process of reaching out to them to see what they make available for High School DE students.

However, I would say that she's pretty focused on leaving home in 18 months, either for regular college, a CC elsewhere, or a good gap year program. In my experience, letting go of the "dream school" is part of the whole college admissions process as she begins to widen her point of view on what would be a good fit for her. She knows Barnard (or other top tier schools) are a crap shoot, and I am pretty sure that she will be able to ultimately be open to all the different possibilities. She's had to let go of many things during her high school journey, since things have definitely not gone according to her mental plan! I think that this is just the next step for her, and she'll figure out what's best on her own timeline as we go through the process of looking at different schools.

Thanks also to RootAnn and Sebastian for your suggestions! I am looking at that PA Homeschoolers class to help her with her essay, but we have to see if the timing will fit into our schedule. And I have a very large and comprehensive excel spreadsheet I've created with all the schools we are currently thinking about, along with their requirements. I'm basically trying to recreate my experience with using Naviance with my middle daughter, who applied to colleges from a prep school - so I have requirements, dates, check boxes etc. It's been very helpful!
 

 

For Common App schools, my son found the phone app to be very useful.  That put college requirements and deadlines at his fingertips.  

I kept a separate spreadsheet to track transcripts, subject tests and other things I had to submit in my counselor role.

I also had a messy Word document in which I stashed stuff like college graduation requirements,  degree requirements, links to course listings, etc. These were things that took a lot if digging to find.

I probably should have done a Google doc so we could both see it. It was just a place to stash info and links. So a spreadsheet was more trouble than it was worth. 

[BlsdMama]

So I think I hear you saying something else altogether and please correct me if I'm wrong.

It seems as though you are asking if her top choice is off the table because of the chaos and upheaval of the past year.

 

My question would be - why would it be?

It seems as though she has recovered quite successfully and that she will have a competitive transcript, yes?  Because, even if there were hurdles to jump, the fact is that she jumped them and received proper and necessary credits, yes?  The transcript won't reflect the hiccups.  The transcript is nothing more that a compilation of credits earned in specific classes.  I don't see how/why the colleges she is applying to would need to know the backstory unless it is in a rather spectacular essay for scholarships about how she prevailed over hardship, kwim?

Is this what you're asking?

[kirag714]

1 hour ago, BlsdMama said:

So I think I hear you saying something else altogether and please correct me if I'm wrong.

It seems as though you are asking if her top choice is off the table because of the chaos and upheaval of the past year.

 

My question would be - why would it be?

It seems as though she has recovered quite successfully and that she will have a competitive transcript, yes?  Because, even if there were hurdles to jump, the fact is that she jumped them and received proper and necessary credits, yes?  The transcript won't reflect the hiccups.  The transcript is nothing more that a compilation of credits earned in specific classes.  I don't see how/why the colleges she is applying to would need to know the backstory unless it is in a rather spectacular essay for scholarships about how she prevailed over hardship, kwim?

Is this what you're asking?

Definitely another part of what I was asking - thanks! And I so appreciate the reassurance and the perspective :)

Perhaps part of our struggle is that while her transcript should definitely be competitive, I think that both of us are mentally comparing it to what would have been if she had been able to stay in school - then she would have had an IB diploma from one of the top public schools in the state. So think that there's more "letting go" that needs to happen for us to fully own how well she is doing. We're working on it - after all, we've been homeschoolers for less than 6 months!

In addition, Barnard is one of those schools that wants homeschoolers to literally list out everything they've done (book list, curriculum, grading approach etc.), which has me wonder exactly how they will feel about the choices we made this year. As was said above, I know that getting too stuck on one particular school is a very bad idea, but I'd like to feel that she could still be a good candidate there (I personally think she would do very well as a student at that school). Of course if they're that nosy about our approach, maybe ultimately we will feel that it's not a good fit anyway! All part of the process I guess!

I think that what's behind these concerns is just feeling a bit uncomfortable and shaky with needing to fulfill the roles of teacher, parent AND guidance counselor, both emotionally and practically. It was so nice to go through the last round of college applications with the help of a full-time guidance counselor at her small private school - this was with my middle daughter who had her own challenges to deal with (anxiety, intractable epilepsy - the past 4-5 years have been a doozy for our family!), but ultimately got into her highly selective first choice school (Colorado College). The thought of being responsible for the school part of the Common App is giving me heeby-jeebies at the moment, although I'm usually pretty good at those types of things once I get into them. I may just need you experienced folks to hold my hand a bit as we navigate things!

[RootAnn]

Can't remember if anyone suggested this yet, but you can use a couple of extra email addresses and try out the common app student and counselor sections now to wrap your head around it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

18 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Can't remember if anyone suggested this yet, but you can use a couple of extra email addresses and try out the common app student and counselor sections now to wrap your head around it.

 

Yes, this can be really helpful. I created one for myself (with the category if college counselor curious about Common App). It really helped me be able to guide my kids through the process. 

There are some good Common App threads here.  Don't fear it, but view it as giving you the opportunity to present your daughter clearly and thoughtfully.  

Don't be afraid of the Bernard requirements either. It also allows you to present a lot if detail and show a whole person instead of a check the block representation.

[GoodGrief]

1 hour ago, kirag714 said:

Definitely another part of what I was asking - thanks! And I so appreciate the reassurance and the perspective :)

Perhaps part of our struggle is that while her transcript should definitely be competitive, I think that both of us are mentally comparing it to what would have been if she had been able to stay in school - then she would have had an IB diploma from one of the top public schools in the state. So think that there's more "letting go" that needs to happen for us to fully own how well she is doing. We're working on it - after all, we've been homeschoolers for less than 6 months!

 

FWIW, the daughter that I referenced in my previous post *did get into some relatively competitive schools (Bryn Mawr, Grinnell, and UWashington, along with our local schools) with a transcript that was a little on the flaky side and the bare minimum of tests (just the SAT). Her GPA was good, but not stellar. I imagine her essays were interesting, but not at all edited for grammar :-).She was waitlisted at three very competitive schools, and only outright rejected from one. There is plenty of hope!

[kirag714]

On April 29, 2018 at 9:30 PM, Sebastian (a lady) said:

 

Yes, this can be really helpful. I created one for myself (with the category if college counselor curious about Common App). It really helped me be able to guide my kids through the process. 

There are some good Common App threads here.  Don't fear it, but view it as giving you the opportunity to present your daughter clearly and thoughtfully.  

Don't be afraid of the Bernard requirements either. It also allows you to present a lot if detail and show a whole person instead of a check the block representation.

Yes - that will be a project for the next month or so. I will try very hard to keep that attitude! And I love what you said about the Barnard requirements! At the very least needing to jump through those hoops will have her application stand out! 

And thanks again to you GoodGrief for your reassurance. I need to hear that from parents here because my daughter needs constant reassurance that everything will be OK. This is a kid who would say that she'd ruined her future when she did badly on a quiz, so to have to follow such a non-traditional path is challenging her on every level (in a good way!).

I have signed her up for the College Essay workshop with Maya at PA Homeschoolers, and I'm glad that's available. I will love having another person working with her on that, and it's a great opportunity for her to get the kind of outside feedback she needs.

Thanks everyone!

[MarkT]

For writing Essays etc  get "How to Prepare a Standout College application"  by Chisolm and Ivey.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Prepare-Standout-College-Application-ebook/dp/B00DDQTKR2

We have it and it is an excellent read. DS got into Honors College.

You can probably find it used or borrow from your library.

Mark

 

[MarkT]

Are you taking any DE or AP classes in 12th?  missed that on quick read

Since AP scores taken in 12th would not affect admission then you could just skip the exam(s).  Helps to show with "challenging coursework" but good SAT II Subject matter test scores could show this as well.  Take SAT Subject tests at end of course with June or August being a good test date to allow some prep.

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat-subject-tests/subjects

As opposed to AP where her writing skills would shine, Subject tests have a lot of multiple choice etc.

They aren't very expensive.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by MarkT