ADHD diag. and medication... looking for a shoulder and an ear...

[BMW]

I met my 11yob 1-1/2 years ago, shortly after his mom died. Over the months I began taking care of him before and after school and eventually his dad and I married. When I first sat down with him with his school work (beginning 5th grade) I was horrified at where he was at... he couldn't write his abc's or a legible sentence... didn't even know a phrase from a sentence. I was furious at the school. I taught him after school and he learned to write properly (which mostly corrected the dyslexia he had).

 

Anyway, I brought him home to homeschool this year because facing middle school was causing him stress and regression. He relaxed and improved in those areas. He is in counseling, as most of you know.

 

He is not defiant. He wants so much to please us. But, he has an extreme lack of control and cannot seem to mature. The school wont run new tests because they do that ever 3 years and he had it last year. But, working with him, I don't think he needs new testing... I can put 2 and 2 together myself.

 

The counselor suggested that if everytime he approached anyone in the family, we should put our hands up and say, "Don't touch me." Not rude, but he just doesn't get it and she thought this would help re-set his brain. He would be stopped and we would help him to keep his hands to himself. I had thought when I first met him that he pushed, hit, bumped, etc. to purposefully annoy his brother. Sometimes that is the case, but I have seen now that he really doesn't use his brain like us... he doesn't think about not bumping and pushing or not flopping his arms or legs onto another person... even when told.

 

Anyway, there are many other little things that have to do with adhd. I always felt that I could "work with him" and "fix it". But, I can't. And I see that his self esteem is damaged. He hears "stop it" "don't do that" "don't touch me" "do what you are told" "finish this" "finish that" "come back here and do what I said". And he isn't trying to misbehave. Dh and I have been working hard at our words, to have everyone watch how they speak. But, he can be very, very annoying. But, we are to do what is right and all...

 

So, today the pediatrician asked us to please use a low dose medication to help him focus and think and remember. Dh has been opposed to this for years, but I have changed my mind and think that since he is really affected by this, has a ld and is trying, but feels badly about himself, etc. that it is time to look at this option. I read some previous threads about this, I remember someone saying to watch out for low doses that can not make a difference and cause some things to be worse... what does that mean??

 

For those of you who have done this with a child this age, what did you observe? What should I look for? Will I see a difference? Will we feel like our child is drugged?

 

It's a hard place to be... but what we are doing isn't working and we want to help him... Oh, the dr. said that many people that use the meds go off of it in early adult stages because they've matured and are able to control their bahaviors better... does this ring true to you? What do you think about it?

 

Thanks,

Bee, who logs in as BMW and noticed that someone else is logging in as Bee:)

[newlifemom]

I don't have any advice, well maybe I do. Take this for what it is a mom whose oldest is 10 and fine, but has a 6yr old ds who may in the future be in a similar situation. I am trying natural routes first. That said I am not ready/williling/able to go gluten free but have heard it does wonders. I try to keep processed to a mimimum, and by that I mean obviously processed. I do not allow red dyes at all and really try not to allow any. I have been told by my first OT that meat and dark leafy green veges combined have a similar affect as ritilin. I also just started flax seed oil and fish oil(from a reputable health food store). Don't know if it will work or help you just throwing it out there.

 

Anyway, what I really want to say is :grouphug:. I certainly know the frustration you are talking about and with your permission will pray for you and your family.

[Dani n Monies Mom]

My dd had similar self-esteem issues for the same reason. We decided to try a low dosage of concerta after having her home for a year. The results have been really great. She feels so much better about herself, no more "I'm stupid" comments and has confidence that she is capable and even more than capable. We continue to homeschool and are now doing 7th grade without meds. This is mainly due to lack of funds given the current financial climate. She is still so confident in herself and her abilities, and I think maturity has settled her down some as well.

 

The only problem we ran into was convincing that the she was the one with the answers, not the med. The med just helps her focus her thoughts/line them up for easier access. She finally proved it to herself by skipping the meds for a day and working 'really hard' to do the work. The next day she said she realized she could do the work just fine, she just has to work harder without the med to keep her on track. Throughout all this we've also been teaching her how to recognize situations that will be difficult for her and prepare accordingly. I'm guessing we'll see the results of that later on down the line.

 

We do have another dd on a gluten free diet and it works wonders for the autisic 'styms'. However, the ADD is still present for her. We don't use meds with her because she is so small and we're not sure how her already picky appetite will respond.

 

Hth,

Ava

Edited November 11, 2008 by Dani n Monies Mom

[LilyK]

Is it Adderall? You should notice an immediate change in brain function because it is an amphetamine. He should be able to focus better. The bumping and touching will take some time and lots of work. Adderall is not a blanket fix for social behaviours.

 

The idea is that they should perform better in school and adjust better socially. This is on paper. In my RL, I have seen these results.

 

1. immediate and wonderful results, especially in focus and improved grades

2. loss of appetite, weight loss

3. difficulty sleeping

 

Then, this:

 

1. After 6 months or so, the Adderall does not work as well. It is, after all, an amphetamine. Dosage goes up.

2. When patients forget to take it, or decide not to take it for a while, complete inability to function. Sleep all day. Some incidents of rage

3. go back on Adderrall, but at a higher dosage.

 

I have seen one, only one, example that goes like this:

1. complete addiction to the drug. Take doses of 75 mg and up and still unable to function because they have built up such a tolerance.

 

 

Like I said, this is not based on any clinical study, simply my own IRL observations, and I have observed a lot of cases. But at least check out the side effects first.

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/adderall-side-effects.html

 

In the last case that I mentioned, I liked the boy much better, with his social missteps, before the medication.

[Rhonda in TX]

I have very little experience with medication. I've seen some ADHD kids that seem drugged on it, and some that don't. A good friend's DS is on medication and you'd never know, other than the fact that he can focus. Another friend's is visibly "drugged".

 

I have two nephews that grew up on Ritalin. Both went off of it at age 16, at their own request. One learned coping mechanisms, graduated with good grades, and got a good scholarship to college. He graduated from college and seems okay. The other almost failed out of high school several times, but did finally graduate. He went to college, but has not been successful. I don't think he plans on returning.

 

This is a difficult decision to make. Good luck and :grouphug:

[swellmomma]

My son is 10 and has adhd and is medicated. I started him at 6 on meds, but having seen the change in him I am confident in sharing my observations. When ds's meds wear off or a dose is missed for some reason, he has no impulse control, no sense of personal boundries, no self preservation control it seems, which means lots of risk taking behaviour. He has little focus, a lot of anger, low self esteem.

 

When he is taking his meds regularily, he can focus on school work, and sees the results which helps his self esteem. His self esteem is still low and we are working on that, but seeing successes works wonders, he has impulse control, most of his anger is controlled, no risk taking behaviours, personal boundries adhered to. On his meds he is a sweet natured little boy, off them he is a demon spawn in his behaviours.

 

My daughter on the other hand also has adhd, she is not medicated. She reacts very strongly to the meds and they make her adhd worse. I bring this up because some believe the meds are a miracle drug. They are not, for some they bring out the best in the child and truely are a saving grace, for others they do not work.

 

I do not feel my child is drugged. He is on a very low dose, in part I believe because he is homeschooled which allows him to mature at his own pace, and also due to the supplement we use. What I feel is that the meds gave me back my son.

 

In addition to the meds we do supplements here of melatonin to aid sleep, multivitamins, and omega 3's.

 

We have a long way to go with getting him to reach his full potential, but have made major strides over the last 3 years. When he was 5 I was told to institutionalize him because his behaviours were so severe and dangerous, I was told he could never be properly educated or have a normal life. TOday he is a great 10 yr old boy, who is getting a great education, is in navy league cadets with a goal to join the army, is a talented artist, learning the guitar, the most amazing big brother to baby girl, and jsut all around sweet kid. I truely believe that by giving him the meds in a low dose, allowed his brain to function properly enough for him to correct the behaviours, excell in school and other activities and really show who he is without all the negativity surrounding him.

 

A couple other things too. Because of his anger issues, and due to an aggressive side of the adhd he also take risperdone for that. As he enters the teen years and his hormones kick in, we will face some major tweaking of meds. I think that as a teen The importance of the meds is even more so, because those with untreated adhd are more prone to self medicating with drugs and alcohol or engaging in other risk taking behaviour such as sexual activity, speeding etc. These actions could spell disaster for the teen. I speak from experience as an untreated adhd adult.

 

Once he is an adult and the hormone fluctuations etc have subsided for the most part, his brain has finished developing (which I believe is at around the age of 25) etc he may find he no longer needs the meds. BUt in the meantime he should continue taking them to tap into his full potential and ensure the best possible outcome for his future.

[BMW]

We were perscribed FocalinXR, once daily. It is dexmethylphenidate hydrochloride, extended release capsules.

 

Since he is homeschooled, I feel confident that I can get him to eat throughout the day... even with a loss of appetite... hopefully I am not fooling myself... but wouldn't it be okay to have him eat snacks often if he doesn't want big meals?

 

I am thinking that I should journal right away what this past week has been like, then, if I start the meds tomorrow, journal each day. The Dr. said that we would be seen once a month to monitor sons needs. I would be with him 24/7.

 

Any other thoughts? Really, I'd rather not, but what we've done hasn't been working and, just so you know, he does not get any artificial colors, no candy, I cook most meals myself. The only exception is eating out at our favorite pizza parlour. I don't allow any soda. I am familiar with gluten free, since my aspergers boy was GFCF for quite a while and that was great for him! I haven't tried that with this son because he doesn't get any junk food... none.

 

Thanks,

Bee

[Ria]

I've talked to a lot of moms who bring their RXs to the pharmacy for Focalin, Adderall, Concerta, etc. When these drugs work for a child, the parents know it. There really is a difference.

 

I think your journal idea is a very good one.

 

Ria

[Tree House Academy]

My oldest son has ADHD. If he ever gets to the place where your step-son is, I wouldn't hesitate to get him medication to help. We tried it when he was younger, but then he naturally started to mature and we stopped. It was good, in some ways, but now we are seeing a lot of behaviors that we don't like and can't seem to correct. He is VERY annoying and I know exactly what you are talking about with that.

 

I would take the advice of the pediatrician. What you are looking for are signs that the meds either aren't working OR that they are making him a zombie. Be ready to adjust several times until the dose and medication is right for him. My son was 6 when we tried meds. I never noticed much difference in him because hyperactivity is a big part of his problem and none of the meds really controlled that well. The adderall brought him down a notch or two, but didn't help much. I decided that if the meds were not going to even show much improvement in his behavior, it wasn't worth the risks you take with putting a young child on that that type of medication.

 

His dad is ADHD and he has learned to control it and use it to his advantage as he is now only 31 years old and is a district manager for a major fortune 100 company! His high energy is definitely a key player in his success.

[Adrianne]

No advice but :grouphug:

 

I am sorry you are going through this and applaud you for sticking with this boy and helping him.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Well, my daughter was the easiest BEHAVED child on earth and I still wish we had started medication sooner (she started in August, at almost 16). The difference she felt was profound. We first considered meds at 9....then 12...

 

IMO, it's worth the try.

[LilyK]

Best of luck to you, BMW. I have heard good things about the XR compared to the instant release.

 

I would suggest that you make sure he takes it early in the day, as early as possible, and check his heartrate periodically. It is, after all, a stimulant.

[newlifemom]

I don't want to start anything ugly here. I am just trying to understand the whats and whys regarding dxing ADHD/ADD. Has anyone here researched why it "seems" so much more prevalent than it was 20-30 years ago? I struggle with my ds and while he isn't officially dx'd my guess is it is only a matter of time. KWIM? Oops just realized I have to go get my booKs squeezed(oh joy). Hope I have given enough info for what I am trying to wrap my brain around this.

 

TIA:001_smile:

[bettyandbob]

Medication can be good if it fits the person. Some people have a great response, some have a so so response and some have a bad response. The first time we tried meds on our ds he focused more, but developed severe OCD. We went off that after 6 months. It took 3 years for most of the OCD to dissipate. At the time we went off the meds we had switched to a gluten free diet because our dd was diagnosed celiac and the whole family went gluten free to help her. There were immediate changes in ds being gluten free. He wasn't perfect, but he was calmer. We then started the Feingold diet.

 

We kept up these eliminations for 3 years and then decided we needed something more. We saw a doctor at the Amen Clinic who put my ds on an atypical med for ADHD. It worked great. I really liked the Amen Clinic, but they cost a boat load of money. Their approach is based on their own studies finding that there are several types of ADD, AD/HD and treatment is based on the determined type. They recommend cleaning up your diet as well as the pharmacuetical regimen.

 

However, after a couple of year dh was growing more concerned about meds in general so we have dropped the meds altogether. Ds is in 9th grade and its a bit bumpy right now, but he is developing some compensatory techniques.

 

Through all of this we've kept up both the gluten free and feingold diet eliminations. Ds is far worse if he doesn't stick to his diet. If your dh is concerned about drugs, you should look into to dietary approaches. Dietary approaches take work and discipline and they are very gradual. It can take 6 months to see if it's working. Sometimes the effect of diet is more immediate, but mostly it takes patience. I'd also recommend a good fitness program, such as martial arts several days a week.

[Barb_]

I don't want to start anything ugly here. I am just trying to understand the whats and whys regarding dxing ADHD/ADD. Has anyone here researched why it "seems" so much more prevalent than it was 20-30 years ago? I struggle with my ds and while he isn't officially dx'd my guess is it is only a matter of time. KWIM? Oops just realized I have to go get my booKs squeezed(oh joy). Hope I have given enough info for what I am trying to wrap my brain around this.

 

TIA:001_smile:

 

FWIW, I remember 2-3 kids (one girl, 2 boys) in my elem. class (catholic school, small classes) that were probably ADHD. They were messy underacheivers who were often in trouble. The boys were clowns and the girl drove everyone nuts and people called her 'spaz'. There have always been kids like this who would have been helped by medication. Then there are borderline kids like me who jiggled under the desk, invented excuses to get up (water, pencil sharpening, bathroom), clockwatched the day away, and doodled on everything in sight to try and stay focused. Simply homeschooling would have helped me because I could have worked at my own pace and been able to move when necessary. Out of my 7, so far I have one child who fits the former description and one who was like myself. I think the perception that there are sooo many more cases of ADHD today is caused by the overmedication of kids who are just wound a little tighter.

 

Barb

[Barb_]

It's a hard place to be... but what we are doing isn't working and we want to help him... Oh, the dr. said that many people that use the meds go off of it in early adult stages because they've matured and are able to control their bahaviors better... does this ring true to you? What do you think about it?

 

 

We just went through this with my 9yo. I've been toying with the idea of meds since she was 6, but couldn't bring myself to do it because it felt so much like giving up on her. I think the key is to act when the ADHD behaviors are disturbing the child. Even though she takes fish oil daily and follows a healthy diet with no food sensitivities, she seemed to get worse as the years went by instead of better. She wanted so badly to behave herself and think of others but was physiologically incapable of doing so much of the time. She has been working on Singapore Math 3 for the past 2 years and still isn't finished. Only recently has she been able to sustain the attention span to read Magic Tree House books even though her actual reading level is at least 3 grades higher. She stayed frustrated and angry with herself much of the time and her friends and sisters would avoid playing with her because of her exhausting personality.

 

Be aware that insurance will likely refuse to pay for the timed release versions. They are too new and have no generic form available. We are using 10mg of Ritalin...5 when she wakes, then a big breakfast, then 5mg more around 10am (after chores but before schoolwork starts). It wears off around 5 pm and by then her appetite is back. She is only about 50 pounds, so I was really concerned about the appetite suppressing aspect of the meds.

 

I am a little concerned that she may develop a tolerance, but for now it's working beautifully. She's still Sarah. She talks quickly and sometimes loses focus when doing Math. She needs a lot of activity. She has a million good ideas and is still messy. I usually still have to remind her once or twice to brush her teeth or put her shoes away. But I no longer need to sit on her. She has better control of her anger. She is more apt to think of others and put them before herself. She can do a whole lesson of Math before breaking down. She no longer drives her sisters and friends nuts.

 

So far it's been a positive experience for us. Good luck to you,

 

Barb

[Kathy in MD]

I would suggest you see a dev. ped because some of your post made me think of other possible diagnosises. The fact that your ds "flops" his arms and legs into others and frequently bumps into others could be a symptom of SPD. (a good book to read is The Out-of-Sync Child) His lack of control could also be a symptom of food sensitivities. Diary and wheat are the most common food causes.

 

A dev.ped should look at a variety of causes of your ds's behaviors because there are several problems that display every single of almost every single symptom of ADHD. Unfortunately your ds could have a combination of these problems in addition to ADHD. However by treating co-existing problems, my ds's dev ped was able to reduce the amount of drugs her ADHD patients needed. Other people have seen dev. neuro-psychs or large clinics with a variety of specialists that do a joint diagnosis.

[Ottakee]

Meds have made a HUGE difference here. It did take some trial and error to find the right meds/dose, etc. but they really help.

 

With all that you said though, I would suggest a developmental pediatrician for further work up. There might be more here than just ADHD and by figuring out the pieces you can help put the puzzle together.

[Mama2Three]

I would suggest you see a dev. ped because some of your post made me think of other possible diagnosises. The fact that your ds "flops" his arms and legs into others and frequently bumps into others could be a symptom of SPD. (a good book to read is The Out-of-Sync Child) His lack of control could also be a symptom of food sensitivities. Diary and wheat are the most common food causes.

 

:iagree:

 

My DS has a sensory processing disorder -- he is a "sensory seeker." He is constantly bumping into things and people to get that extra input into his body. He'll play outside for an hour, running and tackling himself on the ground. Also, althought he doesn't try to be defiant (at least not usually :)), he also has a hard time filtering out "background noise" and focusing on what he should be hearing (like his name being called). Put together, it can make for very trying child to teach. That said, he is full of life and energy, and he brings an excitement to our family that we probably wouldn't have without him.

[BMW]

I understand what you are saying about sensory integration issues. I have a 9yob with acurately diagnosed sensory integration disorder. I have read The Out of Sync Child and have the book The Out of Sync Child Has Fun and learned a lot from that.

 

But, my sensory disorder child can control himself. He can obey and remember rules and will self stim. to work through his struggle with this. I have done a lot of studying with all of this.

 

I do see how reading my post you might think about that with 11yob. But 11 yob cannot remember. I know he isn't willfully disobeying, he just can't remember not to control himself. And he forgets what he is told... even when surrounded by others doing the same thing... For example, he was called with 2 brothers and they were asked to bring in groceries. he brought in a jug of milk, walked outside with brothers who continued to bring in groceries and saw the neighbor child playing and went right over to play. And those things happen all.the.time. He has to be told multiple times to do what everyone else is able to do. I might need to look closer at this still. Yet, I see some very drastic differences between these boys, as far as sensory issues go.

 

For adhd boy, he has school diagnosis and a repeat confirmed diagnosis 3 years later - since 2nd grade. He does have some learning disabilities, like the dyslexia. But the ped. believes these are separate issues. We will have a 2nd opinion with another pediatrician, but not until Feb. or March.

 

Thanks, though, it keeps me thinking and evaluating... I've been looking into this for many months now and need to continue :001_smile:.

[BMW]

And Kathy in MD, thank you for thinking through the professionals who work with these diagnosis'. I will note these down for when we get our 2nd opinion Feb/March and go from there. I agree, you have to look from different angles and take so much into consideration. I am glad that there are such professionals to turn to, I look forward to their help!:)

[Kathy in MD]

And Kathy in MD, thank you for thinking through the professionals who work with these diagnosis'. I will note these down for when we get our 2nd opinion Feb/March and go from there. I agree, you have to look from different angles and take so much into consideration. I am glad that there are such professionals to turn to, I look forward to their help!:)

 

I glad I could help. One last thought, often these professionals are bookd months ahead of time. You might try looking for recommendations and an appointment now.

[KidsHappen]

The results have been amazing. She hasn't made any progress in her school work this year. She was motivated but she said that she was finding it impossible to concentrate and understand the material. This was her first year in high school and she is being very ambitious because of her college plans so there was a big jump in the material. But she is very bright and should have been able to handle it. Now she is zipping through the material and has made up a lot of the lost time. The first day she was kind of edgy and irritable and I was concerned. But since then she has been doing great. As far as I can tell, there has been no side effects.

 

You can try it and see how he does. If it doesn't work out then you can always discontinue. I think concerta takes a little while to start working. The effects are not as immediate as Adderall but I am not positive about this.