Mighteor or similar games to control frustration/anxiety?

[seema]

Can anyone suggest any fun way to work on controlling anger and frustration? my dd 14 has difficulty with controlling emotions, she gets frustrated often while doing Math or anything challenging. She went through counselling with psychologist, deep breathing etc, she is not consistent with it, if I dont remind her, and ofcourse its hard in the moment itself.

 

I was looking at Mighteor (seems pricy), however it states ages 6-14, can anyone share their experience?

Are there other similar products that are good? she does loves video games, even ones that are below her age, any thoughts?

 

Thank you

[PeterPan]

We're doing it. Get it. Coupon code is Zones20 for $20 off. I assume the coupon still works. They ship once a month because they start people in batches and assign them to coaches. So if you order now, it will ship at the end of the month. So take a day or two to think, but don't take forever, kwim? 

[PeterPan]

Well I'm skunked, there's no more Endeavor tonight! Fine, we'll talk Mighteor. :D

 

Mighteor is working on mindfulness, self-regulation, interroception (awareness of self and how they feel). You wear a heart rate monitor that connects to the provided tablet via bluetooth. I consider it a reasonable value, because the cost of the tech (tablet + heart rate monitor) equals the cost of the product. With that you get all the software preloaded, ready to go, bands in two sizes for the monitor, and 3 months of support. The current number of games is reasonable, and they have plans to port to the ipad, develop more games, etc.

 

There are things that are a little frustrating about it. Because it was developed initially for android, it has to be done through multiple apps. There's an app for the main/home and then it goes into each game as a separate app. They've made it as smooth as they can on the android platform, but it will be really nice when they get it over to apple and can finally have everything in one system. It creates some lag as the transitions occur, and extremely impatient children may throw the tablet or become very frustrated. I quickly bought a case for the tablet, because it became very obvious it was going to be thrown by ds. Shockproof Heavy Case Shock Proof Cover for Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7" SM-T280/85 | eBay  This is the case I'm using, and it's satisfactory. I'm not saying go drop it from a 30 foot ladder, but in our house it's adequate. It's $12.

 

Ok, now for results. The results on ds have been PROFOUND, absolutely profound. I think I've made no secret that my ds has been extremely challenging to work with. I used to have bruises up and down my arms, and our discussions with the behaviorist were in the realm of how long can we stave off getting meds. That was the level of what we were dealing with. Significant, significant behaviors. And he has learning disabilities in every area, so EVERYTHING was hard in all of life. Like it was just inescapable. Working on retained reflexes got us a big leap. Like that was HUGE. He was no longer on my back just with waiting 30 seconds and he could be with someone and be appropriate and have a conversation. But he was still just SO HARD to work with. 

 

At first he was really enthralled with Mighteor, but as the challenge ramped up and the frustrators started kicking in, he really got frustrated. That's the POINT. It's going to allow them to hit those walls of frustration in some other context besides academics. And they're going to hit them over and over. And they're going to want to play, in a perverse way, because they have so many psychological motivators built in. The software and methodology is honestly brilliant. Like you'll see them alternating hard goals (heart rate goals) with fun goals (eg. slice 30 cucumbers). It has just that right balance, so the kids don't lose heart. Adults can do it too. I've been doing it. I'm not as faithful, but I wanted to feel it and try it for myself. 

 

So the reason it works is that you're giving them practice in self-monitoring and feeling those both emotions and physical markers, over and over. They're having to initiate the sensations and make them happen for themselves on command, which helps them realize they HAVE control over them. It makes the pathways in the brain so they can control them. And you say nothing, do nothing. All you do is try to get them to do it 10 minutes a day or something roughly equivalent (20 minutes three times a week, whatever). It doesn't have to be done perfectly to get benefit. 

 

What I'm finding is the carryover is pretty natural, because it's such a visceral thing. We don't SAY anything. There's no nagging, no saying wow you realize you just went... Nope, he's just feeling more, realizing more, self-checking more. So after a while, he just got more quiet when he was frustrated, just stayed more calm. And you were like dude, where did that come from. And then he started working in longer chunks, because he COULD work in longer chunks and stay calm, and you're like dude where did that come from. 

 

The most amazing part is that I've been able to back off the OBSCENE amount of sensory input I was having to do to keep him calm. Like we were doing tons and tons of sensory, just trying anything to get his body to stay calm. Now he just doesn't need it. And it just happened so quietly, so naturally, that it was like did where did that come from.

 

I don't know. All I know is the dc I have now doesn't match the extensive profile I filled out when we started. I know that it doesn't HURT anything, and I know that for the pitifully low price ($229) I could only have gotten 2 hours of OT or another therapy that didn't help as much. So it won't hurt, and it might help. That's my official statement. And the change in my ds has been so subtle but consistent and profound, I feel pretty confident recommending it as something worth trying.

[PeterPan]

Fwiw, I've been to Zones of Reg training with Kuypers, multiple Social Thinking workshops with MGW, have a behaviorist who works with my ds, have had in-home ABA for a year+, etc., meaning I had a whole team to help implement Zones check-ins, etc.  Like if you just said well let's just see what we can do at home ourselves without the software, well we've btdt. I've got the Interroception book. This is basically the Interroception book in action. That stuff is a PAIN IN THE BUTT to do, and you ought to hear the sad stories of SLPs trying to do it on their own. It's really a frustrating thing, because you struggle to get that physical connection between how it feels and what you're saying.

 

The software bypasses all that. You go right to feeling it and putting a dial on it. And *you* do nothing. Well that's not true. I need to sit beside my ds, or at least outside his calming closet, for moral support. If I leave the room, he gives up. It's hard enough that he doesn't just go oh yeah and do it. I definitely have to be in there. I think he's a bit extreme in that sense, because people on the support are saying kids usually just do it, sans parents. That's why they have an extensive parent dashboard, because most kids I gather would just do it. Not my ds, lol. My ds stays calm better to actually do it if I'm there. If I leave, he throws it and it's over. It's hard, kwim?

 

So yeah, it's really in the recommend camp in my book. You can't go wrong. You probably wanted a tablet anyway, so you're getting the software for free. It might work. It might do *something*. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[nature girl]

So it's $229 and then $19.99 a month after three months? (My DD could probably use something like this, but oh man, pricey!!) We also don't have any need for another tablet...I wonder if the price might come down when they make it available for iPad and let people use their own tablets.

 

OhE, can you give a link to the forums? I tried Googling but wasn't able to find anything.

[PeterPan]

It's not a forum. They do skype and phone call supports. You have weekly with a coach and sometimes optional groups.

 

We haven't gotten beyond the 3 months yet. I think we're at 6 weeks. I can imagine some people being like ok, we're done, by the three month point, kwim? I also don't know if the games just stop working, or if it's more that the support stops but the games keep working. I haven't really asked. I've kind of privately hoped that the games would keep working but without the ability to update, add games, or receive support. 

[PeterPan]

If you read the Interroception book and conclude your dc could stand to do those exercises, then frankly Mighteor is a DEAL, a screaming deal. I've got the book and have talked with people trying to implement it and WHAT a pain. So for us, this was stuff we needed to happen, not optional and it has worked brilliantly.

 

This has only been out of beta and open to the public for a couple months, not very long. I anticipate just the opposite, that the cost will go UP over time. I don't see how they're making a profit, not with the cost of the materials, not with the amount of man hours in support.

 

Also, their logic on dedicated tech was that the kid sees the device and knows this is what he's supposed to do, no battles. They set it up completely to work on the system. Everything else has been shoved off into folders, so it's all clean and set up and ready to go. The LAST thing a parent wants to deal with is a kid saying oh yeah I'm doing my Mighteor, and actually the kid spent an hour on Angry Birds, kwim? 

 

So there was a logic to why dedicated tech. And the apple thing is a massive project. Then have projections of when it might happen, but I wouldn't advise waiting. In software design, so much goes wrong, kwim? We've gotten results quickly enough that, if we still need to use the software later, I would happily pay for just the app on apple. But really, I'm not sure they'll sell it that way. This stuff is kind of tempermental, with the hr monitor, the apps, everything syncing. By controlling all the tech and having you spend the money upfront, they're eliminating a lot of major customer service headaches. They're not going to make any money if they spend all their hours hand-holding for people who bought the wrong monitors, who can't get things to sync, etc. etc. So they solved all that. The box comes with everything in it, and it just WORKS.

 

I consider it a reasonable value when you realize everything you're getting. I assume the price will go UP, not down. They could price this MUCH HIGHER and be totally fair. In fact, once they get a following and get known, I would be shocked if the price doesn't go up.

Edited September 18, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[seema]

Fwiw, I've been to Zones of Reg training with Kuypers, multiple Social Thinking workshops with MGW, have a behaviorist who works with my ds, have had in-home ABA for a year+, etc., meaning I had a whole team to help implement Zones check-ins, etc.  Like if you just said well let's just see what we can do at home ourselves without the software, well we've btdt. I've got the Interroception book. This is basically the Interroception book in action. That stuff is a PAIN IN THE BUTT to do, and you ought to hear the sad stories of SLPs trying to do it on their own. It's really a frustrating thing, because you struggle to get that physical connection between how it feels and what you're saying.

 

The software bypasses all that. You go right to feeling it and putting a dial on it. And *you* do nothing. Well that's not true. I need to sit beside my ds, or at least outside his calming closet, for moral support. If I leave the room, he gives up. It's hard enough that he doesn't just go oh yeah and do it. I definitely have to be in there. I think he's a bit extreme in that sense, because people on the support are saying kids usually just do it, sans parents. That's why they have an extensive parent dashboard, because most kids I gather would just do it. Not my ds, lol. My ds stays calm better to actually do it if I'm there. If I leave, he throws it and it's over. It's hard, kwim?

 

So yeah, it's really in the recommend camp in my book. You can't go wrong. You probably wanted a tablet anyway, so you're getting the software for free. It might work. It might do *something*. 

Ok, I am sold. Just ordered it! OhElizabeth ,Thank you for the detailed explanation.

[PeterPan]

Come back to this thread and let us know how it goes for you. I've been really cautious to come on the boards and get really gungho, because I know there's this bandwagon effect and wishful thinking and chasing after expensive thing after expensive thing. I feel like, for the low cost (for what you're getting, compared to the cost of any therapy intervention which around here is $100 an hour), it's worth a try. Even if you just said well let's do CBT, well that I can't get into for less than $100 an hour around here. And for us, it's doing *something*. Their thought process is solid and I'm seeing things happen. And the things are so subtle, so consistent, so profound. I think for people in the very frustrated camp, the $229 is definitely worth the try. When the alternative is serious medications, it's worth a try.

 

Btw, we could rabbit trail here and explore what they're working on with the software and *why* it's working. It really has a lot of levels. You're focusing with distractors, so you've got a form of cognitive therapy. You're remembering missions/goals while you work, so again more EF. Cogmed is very, very expensive stuff, and I haven't seen it in person. I'm just saying, having played a bunch of the games in Mighteor myself and having watched ds a significant amount to analyze what they're doing, I'm seeing quite a few things happening here. There's also the mindfulness piece, the auditory processing/distractors piece, the working memory piece, the processing speed... It's really hitting a lot of areas. And it seems like even if the kids fade out or need a rest and are "only" working on game goals, they're still getting these other layers. That's why I was really slow to form an opinion, because with this many layers it's hard to say oh THIS is giving the benefit. But now I take it a different way, that it's a really good value because it's hitting a LOT of the pieces.

 

All I know is my ds is calmer and I'll take it. But yeah, this is not a simplistic effort on their part. There's a LOT going on in the games, a lot of really good thought on how could we bring in these areas. I think people will be impressed. 

[nature girl]

Thank you so much for all the insight, OhE! You have me almost convinced...I'd want to make sure the apps didn't stop working after 3 months, though, because I can't imagine paying $19.99 a month indefinitely.

 

If DD still had severe frustration issues, I'd be even more likely to jump on this, but I think the mindfulness we've been doing, along with meds and maturity, have already helped a great deal. Or it may just be that now we're in PS, where the work is much easier for her than the work we were doing at home, there's not much for her to be frustrated about. (I do know that when she has difficulty with a Lego project, or one of the structures she's building falls down, 75% of the time now she asks for help rather than getting upset. When she does get frustrated though, she throws things. And you can tell it's painful for her.) Maybe I'll give her the challenging K'Nex set I'd been planning to save for Christmas, to see how she does, and use her reaction to the frustration to make a decision. Hmmm... 

 

Sorry, just thinking out loud. :)

[Innisfree]

I think I'm going to try this for dd12. The emotional regulation has always been her biggest hurdle, and while that's already gotten much better, I think Mighteor will be worth a try. It's a different approach, and one she may accept fairly easily. So, I'll report back, too.

[sbgrace]

Wow. I had never heard of this.

 

 

I may try this. My son 13, so on the older end. But he struggles a lot with emotional regulation, and anxiety has become huge to the point we're trying meds--and he's not handling them well. I've got a call in to try to see if we can get into CBT. 

 

Do think anxiety can be helped?

It says 45 minutes a week??

Is that they play for one 45 minute section or a bit a day or the 45 minutes is outside the games? 

 

I guess I need to look at it closer. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by sbgrace

[PeterPan]

Sbgrace, yes you're a perfect candidate for it. Yes on anxiety.

[PeterPan]

Yes the tech is all new and yes you keep it. That's why I'm thinking the price goes up later.

 

The hr monitor strap is fabric so you wouldn't want it used.

 

We been mentioning Mighteor on and off around here for a couple months.

[sbgrace]

I missed the mentions!  I'm poking around on the site. I think I'm going to try this for him. 

[PeterPan]

Nature, that's hard when you're 75% of the way there and wanting to decide if something is worth the expense to try. I would look at her everyday life, not rare occasions, and I wouldn't feel compelled to do something just because others are. If what you're doing is working, it's working, kwim? We had already done ALL the tools. We had gone to the ped and talked through meds (stimulants, anxiety, you name it), done Zones, done ABA, brought in workers, modified the work, done OT and sensory. Even with all the tools we had, we were just not getting where we needed to be. 

 

But I get that when you're 75% of the way there you wonder how much farther it could get her... I think look at where she's at daily. Do her teachers need more self-regulation or what are they wanting more of? She's so bright, I doubt they're keeping materials unusually easy if her behavior is there. So they can tell you if her behavior is affecting their ability to ramp up the academics. But if they're like oh no, she's right where we want her and her behavior is fine, then it's fine, kwim?

 

I have heard mention of people who bought it and their kids blew through it. That wasn't many just like *1*, but I'm acknowledging it can happen. And maybe that dc still saw benefit, dunno. I'm just saying if the dc has the skills and self-regulation and attention and inhibition and processing speed and handling distractions and... then they have it, kwim? But if those things are weak, any of them, there are SO many things being addressed that probably a dc will get *some* benefit.

[PeterPan]

Sbgrace, what works for us is to build it into our daily routine and just hit it as many days as part of that routine as we can. If we miss a day, the world doesn't blow up. So if we're doing 10-15 and hitting it 4 out of 7, we easily hit the target of 45 minutes a week.

 

Note, when they say 10 minutes, they mean 10 minutes of actual playing. So load time for the apps, menu time, scrolling through game play options, syncing the bluetooth, etc. doesn't count. You'll need to allot more time. I plan 30 minutes, but that's because it's ds and reality with an 8 yo, lol. But yes, it's not going to be just 10 minutes. It takes some work to get it set up, monitor on, synced, do the warm-up exercises (heart to red zone, cooling down), etc. THEN your 10 minutes starts. I usually try to stretch ds and get him to go longer than that. Like this morning he probably actually played 20. I lost track. But we aren't playing every single day.

 

The actual game play goes pretty quickly, because the games are really engaging and fun. :)

 

Oh, I was just realizing I could check the time played on the parent dashboard. It's all calculated there and the data goes to Mighteor for your parent coach when you sync the device. I haven't synced it in a couple weeks, oops. But yeah, you can actually see how many minutes the dc has played, and that's how they calculate it, by actual time spent playing, not by time just on the device.

Edited September 18, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[maize]

this can be used by multiple family members? Do you set up separate profiles?

[PeterPan]

Yup, you can have profiles for all the people you want, no extra cost. And when you have the main app open, it's easy to toggle profiles, see their dashboard data, etc. 

 

So yes, you Maize could find it the deal of the century. All your kids could do it. :D

 

You could use their chat feature and see if they have a limit on # profiles, dunno.

SaveSave

Edited September 18, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[nature girl]

Nature, that's hard when you're 75% of the way there and wanting to decide if something is worth the expense to try. I would look at her everyday life, not rare occasions, and I wouldn't feel compelled to do something just because others are. If what you're doing is working, it's working, kwim? We had already done ALL the tools. We had gone to the ped and talked through meds (stimulants, anxiety, you name it), done Zones, done ABA, brought in workers, modified the work, done OT and sensory. Even with all the tools we had, we were just not getting where we needed to be. 

 

But I get that when you're 75% of the way there you wonder how much farther it could get her... I think look at where she's at daily. Do her teachers need more self-regulation or what are they wanting more of? She's so bright, I doubt they're keeping materials unusually easy if her behavior is there. So they can tell you if her behavior is affecting their ability to ramp up the academics. But if they're like oh no, she's right where we want her and her behavior is fine, then it's fine, kwim?

 

I have heard mention of people who bought it and their kids blew through it. That wasn't many just like *1*, but I'm acknowledging it can happen. And maybe that dc still saw benefit, dunno. I'm just saying if the dc has the skills and self-regulation and attention and inhibition and processing speed and handling distractions and... then they have it, kwim? But if those things are weak, any of them, there are SO many things being addressed that probably a dc will get *some* benefit.

 

She's only had a week and a half of school so far, so we'll see how things go. As of the end of last week, her teacher said she's settling in well, and she hasn't had any real behavior issues. In the past, the academics she had issues with were math (although she was working a couple of years above grade level so this was math that really made her think, where the math they're doing now in 2nd grade covers topics she learned K), and creative writing, where she has always had trouble organizing her thoughts. I expect writing will be more of an issue this year, where they're supposed to write longer papers and be more independent. I have no idea how she'll do.

 

FWIW, I chatted with a rep at Mighteor. They said that after 3 months, if you don't want to continue to subscribe you just won't continue to receive updates for the program. I asked whether they have any plans for a lower priced option if you purchase the app without the tablet, and they said:

 

"We are in the process of developing an app, however we do not foresee a lower price. Currently, we are providing the tablet for free and the price is based off of the parent resources we provide, the coaching, and the Mighteor World."

 

So it seems like you're right, that they're giving away the tablet in the hopes you'll want to keep up the subscription. Still on the fence...But I guess they do give you the 3 month trial, so that if it doesn't start to make an impact (or, my fear, if your child gets so frustrated they refuse to keep playing) you can always back out. It's one of those things, if someone asked me how much I'd pay a magician to wave a wand and help DD with emotional regulation, I'd get a second mortgage on the house without blinking an eye...This is probably worth a try.

[PeterPan]

Well if your major concern is that she'll get so frustrated she won't play, no I don't think that will happen. There's quite a bit of flexibility built into the games (which games, which features, whether to focus on the missions or play and ignore the missions, missions that are more intense and missions that are more fun, etc.), and if she needs a break she can just switch which game she's playing. My ds is in the pretty extreme category for imprecatory declarations of NEVER doing something EVER again, and I've been able to keep him going. The games start off really easy and increase gradually, subtly. She'll probably be fine.

 

Yeah, $229 vs. a 2nd mortgage.  :lol:

Edited September 18, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[exercise_guru]

I am so sold on this idea of biofeedback regulation but I want to do this over a long period of time to help my kids regulate. 

 

I have a question for those of you that use the game. Since it has two apps running is there an app or a way I could have my kids monitor themselves when they are not playing the games?

 

My kids have fitbits and  I have a flow monitor. 

 

What I would like to do is have them do mighteor for 3 months to prime their interoception system. Then I would like to allow them to monitor their heartrates etc with an app using either the mighteor app or the fitbit using one of our pads. We have both apple and android. 

 

So my kids get worked up like you wouldn't believe on minecraft and roblox. If they could learn the techniques with Mighteor they could use them later in other video games. 

 

Then maybe I could get them to monitor their system in real life situations. like if they notice they are going into the red zone they could practace and have a look at their heart rate and bring it down etc. 

 

For the price I am willing to give it a try but I would be suprised if these games will wind them up as much as some of the other activities they do ( a frusterating homework assignment, a new pieces on the piano. ) it would be cool if the app would work with those activities even a bar that went up and down ...

 

Some fitbits don't allow you to actively monitor if you start an activity and are sitting still.  I am open to suggestions.

[PeterPan]

You'll be assigned to a weekly counselor/support person who can help you with this.

[seema]

We tried it , it did not work well. The HR monitor did not seem accurate at correlating with frustration level. There were times when she was calm and it would be in red zone, and at other times vice versa. She had no patience to deal with this.

I am so sold on this idea of biofeedback regulation but I want to do this over a long period of time to help my kids regulate. 

 

I have a question for those of you that use the game. Since it has two apps running is there an app or a way I could have my kids monitor themselves when they are not playing the games?

 

My kids have fitbits and  I have a flow monitor. 

 

What I would like to do is have them do mighteor for 3 months to prime their interoception system. Then I would like to allow them to monitor their heartrates etc with an app using either the mighteor app or the fitbit using one of our pads. We have both apple and android. 

 

So my kids get worked up like you wouldn't believe on minecraft and roblox. If they could learn the techniques with Mighteor they could use them later in other video games. 

 

Then maybe I could get them to monitor their system in real life situations. like if they notice they are going into the red zone they could practace and have a look at their heart rate and bring it down etc. 

 

For the price I am willing to give it a try but I would be suprised if these games will wind them up as much as some of the other activities they do ( a frusterating homework assignment, a new pieces on the piano. ) it would be cool if the app would work with those activities even a bar that went up and down ...

 

Some fitbits don't allow you to actively monitor if you start an activity and are sitting still.  I am open to suggestions.

 

[sbgrace]

My son had a really hard time getting a good initial set rate for a really long time. He just couldn't control his rate well enough--he'd bounce down, then up on that bear-making his goal too high. The games weren't challenging in terms of heart rate as a result. But he's improved! He can regulate enough to get that bear to blue. I'm hoping that's a sign of good things to come in terms of transfer into life. I imagine he's close to 3 months in now. 

 

I am so sold on this idea of biofeedback regulation but I want to do this over a long period of time to help my kids regulate. 

 

I have a question for those of you that use the game. Since it has two apps running is there an app or a way I could have my kids monitor themselves when they are not playing the games?

 

My kids have fitbits and  I have a flow monitor. 

 

What I would like to do is have them do mighteor for 3 months to prime their interoception system. Then I would like to allow them to monitor their heartrates etc with an app using either the mighteor app or the fitbit using one of our pads. We have both apple and android. 

 

So my kids get worked up like you wouldn't believe on minecraft and roblox. If they could learn the techniques with Mighteor they could use them later in other video games. 

 

Then maybe I could get them to monitor their system in real life situations. like if they notice they are going into the red zone they could practace and have a look at their heart rate and bring it down etc. 

 

For the price I am willing to give it a try but I would be suprised if these games will wind them up as much as some of the other activities they do ( a frusterating homework assignment, a new pieces on the piano. ) it would be cool if the app would work with those activities even a bar that went up and down ...

 

Some fitbits don't allow you to actively monitor if you start an activity and are sitting still.  I am open to suggestions.

 

I'd like to do this too. I'd actually like a monitor my son could wear and just check as he goes about his day.   We know from this program what his calm rate tends to be (though I'll say some days he's just high--and that translates to behavior and later even sleep issues I think). However, our band doesn't hold charge long enough to be used for the kind of time I'd like to use it.

 

To monitor using this program's band you'd have to have the tablet running too. There is a screen where you can just watch the rate. The child wouldn't get in game feedback on red/blue. I'm trying to imagine my son playing an engaging game and also noticing his heart rate in a silent app to the side. I don't think he would? I think he'd need to accept myself or his brother watching and giving verbal feedback. Am I understanding what you're thinking? 

 

We tried it , it did not work well. The HR monitor did not seem accurate at correlating with frustration level. There were times when she was calm and it would be in red zone, and at other times vice versa. She had no patience to deal with this.

 

 Ours had issues too. He would be yelling at me and sitting in blue on the monitor. Or it would just constantly lose connection (blue, blue, forever blue...then realize it didn't have him).  I don't recall stuck in red while calm, but that might have happened. We ended up getting a new monitor from them. I am trusting they will follow through and give us an extra month of initial time as well. 

 

There is a lag, though, in what happens inside my kid and when the heart rate monitor shows that response. That's not ideal in terms of wanting the child to clearly notice what he's feeling inside as it relates to the heart on the screen. I think it's just a limit of the technology. He appears to be learning anyway, at least in game. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by sbgrace

[Innisfree]

Sbgrace, we've had very similar results with dd. She could get up into the red with no trouble, but getting down to blue again seemed impossible... Far too frustrating and time consuming... Until suddenly she could do it. I did provide a bit of incentive to encourage her, because it really was hard.

 

We see the time lag too. It doesn't seem to cause any big problems, though I wish dd could get truly instant feedback.

 

So far no carryover to real life that I can see, but I'm hopeful. That goal is well worth the time (bigger investment) and money (smaller investment) we're putting into Mighteor.

[PeterPan]

Try the hr band in other places. We put it on my ds' leg because his arms are skinny and let it slide. The leg works better here.

 

Yes I think if it's hard that's your sign to keep going.

[exercise_guru]

I noticed the new fitbits have active heartrate so you can look at your heartrate and see if it is high. After christmas ( she is getting it for christmas) I will have my daughter wear it during minecraft just to get a baseline and also I might just have a look at it when she is stressed as she gets anxious etc. I will report back. 

 

As for Mightero If there is a stand alone screen on the pad then I could prop the pad up  next to the home computer. She would more than likely notices this while she was in a game if I implemented it in steps. 1-3 months of mighteor and training and then worked on putting it to use with other applications.

 

I have seen some less expensive heartrate monitors that might have real time pairing to an app. I know that for many people in stress management there is a lot of talk on how to monitor a mindful meditation session and see the data afterward. The fitbit doesn't record an activity if you are not moving from what I heard. It was the one I thought I could get my daughter excited about but its kind of large so who knows if its going to be something she is willing to wear. The smaller ones track steps etc but there is no face on the watch to see the heartbeat or the time. 

 

My Flow does a good job and has a ton of functions but it is even bigger than the fitbit. I have no idea if the iwatch can do any of this.  

 

We could buy the mighteor and then let them train on it for 3 months. I didn't realize that it had a chest strap still. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by exercise_guru

[BooksandBoys]

That’s a glowing endorsement, Peter Pan.

I bought it a few weeks ago. It arrived a couple of days ago, and I was planning to use it as a Christmas present. Maybe I’ll start tomorrow? Middle DS is deep in one of his behavioral cycles, and yesterday’s meltdowns left me bruised. (He’s too big to move away from the other kids without me inevitably getting hurt). We’ve recently moved, and he’s not set to see his new psychiatrist for an obviously necessary mer adjustment until February. I digress. I always digress when I let myself talk about the behavioral stuff.

Anyway....I’ll work on set-up tomorrow and see where that takes me.

[PeterPan]

I wouldn't use it as a Christmas present, because that implies it's his to decide to use, not use, control, etc. I would keep it and have your two older boys play and your 4 yo when he's ready.

 

It sounds like you need a behaviorist and a behavior plan. Unless you have been trained in restraint, it's safer to remove yourself and the siblings than it is to move the person having a meltdown. Also, you need to get Zones of Reg and practice taking a break. EVERYONE needs to practice taking a break, over and over, so they know exactly what the plan is and what they're to do and can just do it. You can say Johnny needs a break, so we're going to go to the kitchen and let Johnny take a break. Ideally obviously he would ask for a break and go to his break space. Ideally you would have that space. But that's something you work up to and practice. It's something you practice overtly and then fade prompts for.

 

Have you tried niacin? To me, this stuff is all percentages. So maybe you get a percentage with x, a percentage with y, and so on, and eventually you get enough percentages that you have a more functional child. Niacin takes down overly high methyl levels. You can read about methylation defects and bipolar and see what you think. It's one of those things you can try if you think it's appropriate. Phillips makes an inulin gummy that is labeled for "Good Energy" or some such thing that has 10 mg of niacin per gummy. My ds is around the age of yours, 65 pounds, and for him 2 gummies a day is a nice amount of niacin. Ymmv obviously. Just saying for my ds it has been a useful tool. 

 

Anyways, definitely don't give it as a Christmas present. It's therapy and the only thing that should be on it is Mighteor. You're going to want all your kids to do it.

[BooksandBoys]

I wouldn't use it as a Christmas present, because that implies it's his to decide to use, not use, control, etc. I would keep it and have your two older boys play and your 4 yo when he's ready.

 

It sounds like you need a behaviorist and a behavior plan. Unless you have been trained in restraint, it's safer to remove yourself and the siblings than it is to move the person having a meltdown. Also, you need to get Zones of Reg and practice taking a break. EVERYONE needs to practice taking a break, over and over, so they know exactly what the plan is and what they're to do and can just do it. You can say Johnny needs a break, so we're going to go to the kitchen and let Johnny take a break. Ideally obviously he would ask for a break and go to his break space. Ideally you would have that space. But that's something you work up to and practice. It's something you practice overtly and then fade prompts for.

 

Have you tried niacin? To me, this stuff is all percentages. So maybe you get a percentage with x, a percentage with y, and so on, and eventually you get enough percentages that you have a more functional child. Niacin takes down overly high methyl levels. You can read about methylation defects and bipolar and see what you think. It's one of those things you can try if you think it's appropriate. Phillips makes an inulin gummy that is labeled for "Good Energy" or some such thing that has 10 mg of niacin per gummy. My ds is around the age of yours, 65 pounds, and for him 2 gummies a day is a nice amount of niacin. Ymmv obviously. Just saying for my ds it has been a useful tool.

 

Anyways, definitely don't give it as a Christmas present. It's therapy and the only thing that should be on it is Mighteor. You're going to want all your kids to do it.

I’ve tried a lot of things (with varying levels of success), but not niacin. I’ll add that. I have some knowledge of methylation defects and our family uses methylated B’s, but he has not been tested for defects yet. I agree that it’s all percentages. Exercise is a big percentage here, and I struggle to get enough into him in winter because he doesn’t function in classes. We’re trying tumbling again in January. Hoping, hoping. I bought a karate dvd to do together. Even 1% helps.

 

I’ll take your advice on not using Mighteor as a gift. Thanks. And I’m definitely not adding anything else to the tablet. That way lies disaster. :-) The older two will start at the same time. Did you create your own profile so you could play?

 

I bought Zones of Regulation last week too. School will look very different after the holiday. :-) We aren’t making any progress with traditional education with DS2 anyway (due to behaviors), so changing gears to focus on regulation can only help.

 

As for a behaviorist, etc. Yes. I need all the things. We recently moved again and are working our way through all the waiting lists. And the complete lack of a clear idea of what on earth I’m dealing with doesn’t help. I just keep floundering around trying to figure it out, thinking we’re making progress, then floundering again. At least with my oldest, I know I’ve got ASD and ADHD and motor delay etc. With middle DS, I have psychiatrists fumbling around not wanting to give the diagnoses (but medicating for bipolar and adhd) and then us moving again right before the full eval was scheduled and having to start the wait list process all over again. Oh well.

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

[PeterPan]

Whoa, you're using methylated Bs with him?? Did you have him tested to make sure that's the problem and that he needs that?? If he is an under-methylator, the methylated Bs would be appropriate. However what you're describing sounds like the opposite, that he's way over-methylated. You may need to get some help to sort through this. Being under-methylated and over-methylated are totally opposite things. You take someone's methyl levels too high, and you would get the behaviors you're describing.

[PeterPan]

Yeah, this isn't making sense. You really need to be careful and get some professional advice here or research hard. I'm an overmethylator, and niacin is awesome for me. You put me on things that up methyls, and I literally have out of body experiences. If your ds is an overmethylator and you're giving him methylated B, it's no wonder he's having bipolar symptoms, my lands. Please check that out pronto. 

 

Niacin drops the methyl levels, so it's possible to drop them to a nice, healthy, comfortable level or to drop them too much. Drop them too much and the person ends up sluggish. So really, what you're saying doesn't add up. You need to review your research and be really careful here.

 

Yes, ASD in moms is pretty common around here.

 

Yes, I have my own profile on Mighteor and sometimes play it. I just don't get around to it super-regularly anymore. Life and all that.

 

You could look for Ninja Warrior type classes at gymnastics places. Our Y is starting up one, and they're kind of popular. They're more play-based and will have good crashing and sensory input. Another thing that's really effective with my son is taking him to the track and running him. My ds LOVES to run. It's almost a stim for him, and he has done it for years, running loops in our house. Sometimes he flies planes or flaps, sometimes he just runs, but it's really a thing for him. So I take him to the track and run him, lol. On the indoor track at the Y it's 18 laps to a mile. We grab weights, but you can use water bottles. Either carry two water bottles or carry one and switch hands with each lap. The weight feels really good and ups the exertion a little. 

 

My son struggles to stay calm with that, even though he likes it, so we do 2 laps, then rest, do 2 more laps then rest, and so on. On the rests we will often pick an exercise and do 10, like push-ups or bicep curls with the weights or slam ball or jumping jacks or whatever. It just lets him reset and get back to green zone before we run again. I don't sit there running him till he's crazy, kwim? I tell him *I* need to rest (which isn't entirely true, I can run, lift weights, box, etc. but I have asthma and we say it is, hehe), and *I* take my rest until I see that he is green and bored and good to go again. Pant, make it obvious you need to rest. :D

 

[PeterPan]

As my ds started realizing the expectations and trying to have more appropriate, controlled behavior, he began to pull back. Sometimes he needs motivators and help to go out and stay calm. He does well with routine. I'll tag it to things like visiting with the lady who sits at the sign-in desk, getting suckers, etc. 

 

I just don't want you to think it's like oh she says let's go run a mile and he says wow yeah! He likes it once we get into it. I chose it because it's rolling with something he already likes to do that we already know makes him feel good. But even for things he WANTS to do or would LIKE to do, sometimes he needs help to have that routine, make the transitions, stay calm, and say yes we'll make that effort and do it. It doesn't just happen.

[WoolC]

I just learned about Mighteor today and it looks very promising for my ASD anxiety kiddo. Who is still using it? Anyone seeing skills translate into everyday life? Thanks for any updates and feedback you can give!

[PeterPan]

We got off the bandwagon for a couple months (took a trip to Florida, then the holidays, blah blah) and we're back on. They've been adding new games. It's DEFINITELY good stuff. I try to have him do it twice a day now. Makes a huge, huge difference. You're specifically tapping that interroception part of the brain. You're going to open up his awareness to realize how he feels in other situations.

 

Don't forget the Zones20 code for $20 off. I hope it still works. :)

[WoolC]

Thanks! I went ahead and ordered. You really can't beat the price compared to other therapy options and I don't have to drive anywhere so it's a win-win. The zone20 code has expired but i was able to use ASOT20 if anyone else is looking for a code.

[MeaganS]

We've been doing it for over a month and if nothing else, the girls love it. I feel like maybe it has helped one of my kids but not necessarily the other. For us, the jury is still out.

[sbgrace]

We're just about finished with our initial 3 month trial period. (Actually, we've had it for 4 months but had issues with our first band that caused the first month to be ineffective.) 

 

My son has (finally) learned the power of breathing to bring himself to heart rate control, at least in the game. When he started he really couldn't breathe his heart rate down, and now he can. This is new in the last month, and I (and he) believe it was learned through Mighteor.  I am seeing tiny bits of transfer to life, but not widespread. He's not thinking to use it for anxiety, even though I'm suggesting it's applicability. I do see him try to breathe some in frustration. There is a bit of lag in body responses and the recorded heart rate, and my kid doesn't often get frustrated in the games, so I think it's been harder for him to see the connection between emotion and heart rate and calming. As I've realized that, I've decided to do some express teaching. I plan to do more of that. 

 

I have a frustration with Mighteor, and I don't know if it's just my kid. For two months my son had goal rates set too low for his games. So it wasn't challenging at all to control his heart rate playing, even though he had almost no ability to actually control his heart rate. He just sat in blue range, no matter what he did. Then he kind of aha learned to control his heart rate/calm, and now his set goal rates are generally too challenging.

 

At first he stayed blue, even when frustrated in the games, and now he struggles to get out of red.

 

I wish the games could adjust the target heart rates while the child is playing. If he/she sticks blue, it could creep up. If they stick in red, the goal rates could adjust down. The best growth happens when we're operating at the edge of competence. For us, the goal rates were too easy, then too hard. We've hardly ever had what I would call edge of competence. Still, he's learned from Mighteor. 

 

We got off the bandwagon for a couple months (took a trip to Florida, then the holidays, blah blah) and we're back on. They've been adding new games. It's DEFINITELY good stuff. I try to have him do it twice a day now. Makes a huge, huge difference. You're specifically tapping that interroception part of the brain. You're going to open up his awareness to realize how he feels in other situations.

 

Don't forget the Zones20 code for $20 off. I hope it still works. :)

 

We're almost at the end of our initial trial. It's just been in the last month that I've seen progress. But I'm not sure how much more there is to go, and if a subscription is worth it, given my son is  controlling his heart rate better but now stuck in red for much of the games.  

 

Can you stop after your initial trial period, wait, then jump back into it with the monthly charges later if you want?

 

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by sbgrace

[PeterPan]

We've been doing it for over a month and if nothing else, the girls love it. I feel like maybe it has helped one of my kids but not necessarily the other. For us, the jury is still out.

 

One little thing to watch is whether they're actually noticing the missions. My ds started last fall, I forget when, but it is only in the last month that he got enough maturity on him to notice and attend to the missions. He was just playing before, which is fine, but using the missions engages more parts of their brain. 

[MeaganS]

One little thing to watch is whether they're actually noticing the missions. My ds started last fall, I forget when, but it is only in the last month that he got enough maturity on him to notice and attend to the missions. He was just playing before, which is fine, but using the missions engages more parts of their brain. 

 

That's a great idea. DD9 especially could handle this. Thanks!

[PeterPan]

...My son has (finally) learned the power of breathing to bring himself to heart rate control, at least in the game. When he started he really couldn't breathe his heart rate down, and now he can. This is new in the last month, and I (and he) believe it was learned through Mighteor.  I am seeing tiny bits of transfer to life, but not widespread. He's not thinking to use it for anxiety, even though I'm suggesting it's applicability. I do see him try to breathe some in frustration... 

 

This is HUGE progress!

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think he just has a long way to go. I don't doubt there could be technical or programming problems, but when someone's interroception (self-awareness) is so low that it takes 3 months just to connect how to control their heart rate with breathing, that's just a really deep hole. You're not gonna dig out of that hole fast. But you've got something that is giving you a shovel and you are digging, kwim?

 

Whether you continue to pay or not, the apps will continue to work. If you cancel, you'll lose the support calls (bah), the email results summaries (maybe bah), and access to the new apps. I don't know how they're handling pausing and resuming. I can say that for the last few months they *have* been hitting their goal of a new app every month. It's pretty ambitious. My ds really lives for the new apps, because he's not good enough at any of the apps to knock out all the missions.

 

So no matter what, keep playing. Whether you invest in them and want to keep the new apps coming, that's your business. I decided to keep them coming, because so far the product has been good for us and I wanted to see the continued development of the apps. If I stop investing, I feel like I'm saying screw you, and I don't really feel that way, kwim? The apps keep getting better and the product is doing better for us. 

 

I'm just glad to hear he's finally getting some clicks. For a while there even that was looking dismal. It sounds like he needs to keep going, keep working on it.