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About exercise_guru

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  1. I can share our experience in integrating the R into normal everyday speach. Its like a motor planning repetition issue only that part is happening in the brain. The solution we found is to "turn on" the speach process several times a day and create opportunities to increase repetitions. The answer to most remediation is repetition and if the research in interactive metronome is accurate it takes 10,000 repetitions to build a new skill and probably a lot more remediate a skill. You child is much younger than mine so he hasn't had as many years to break and build a bad habit in speach. We are fixing this problem of integration into everyday speech with a few method. My son creates a video each day of some sentences that are created and then we watch it back and praise and get feedback. Its only a 2 minute video and we focus on first getting the sound to appear in a sentences once. Then once that is accurate we put the sound in the sentence twice. We build the sentences in while using the videos as feedback and self monitoring. It works but it takes time to integrate. Repetition, praise, repetition praise. We used pennies for reward for a long time or skittles whatever. The other method we use is a bit more sophisticated we use a metorome and say the sentences at an even slow temp. Then when we can nail the sentence we dial the sentence up 5bpm and repeat until we master the sentence at that temp. We continue to do this until over time we can pronounce the sentence at a normal speed. IF the sentence jhas too many complicated R's in it we simplify and focus on one spefic sound in the sentence until we get a very simple sentence. To keep it interesting we make up silly sentences and we do "I say " you say and then use the video as feedback from the video.
  2. Kbutton. Fast Forword starts all the sound training with delayed slowed down sounds and slowly speeds it up as the student progresses. It also has a program in Foundations that tests memory and sounds accross different frequencies. My son excelled at the 2kHz range did average and took quite a bit of time in the middle range 1Khz then tanked in the 500Hz range. It took him 65 training sessions to get all the ranges and he flatlined for a very long time training his brain in that range. Later when my SLP looked at that data she said it made perfect sense. this is the frequency where most noise exists ( think air conditioner etc) After training my son improved in dichotic listening and hearing in noise. I think it is because we remediated so heavily listening in those frequencies.
  3. PP did they ever send you to an audiologist and have a full CAPD screening? Hearing in noise is just one variable they test. I will try to pull my sons testing. I remember dichotic listening and hearing in noise was on there along with hearing gaps in sound. That is where my son had a difficult time. I think it was labeled temporal processing and timing in the brain. I am sure you have observed that if you give a child a set of tasks and they can quickly and efficiently do 20 with 90% efficiently that is most definitely not where the problem is. In school ideally the tasks would be at this level so that the child can just focus on learning the concept. Unfortunately if they are using all their energy to process the sound that is heard and get it through the brain it doesn't give as much bandwidth for learning the material. Here is the challenge though say my son could not ignore his right ear and hear with his left ear. Having him practace that everyday with repetition did not remediate the dichotic weakness. The remediation my son did was at the ground up level with individual sounds and tones. We had failed at higher level sound tasks before that time but after we took it to the base level and re mediated it all started to click into place. I looked at it as adding more Auditory RAM( like a computer ) to the auditory processing part of the brain. This is what FF actually works on the very most is recognizing gaps in sound and processing the leading and lagging sounds quickly and efficiently so that it frees up processing speeds in tasks. Later we worked on listening from the left and the right and did interactive metronome for timing in the brain but honestly even before we focused on that aspect he had come up to normal in all of the key auditory tasks in the CAPD test. I interpeted that as gaps in his brain processing skills and hopefully we filled in those gaps with remediation so he could live his life and focus on learning math instead of trying to make out what the teacher was saying and if he was getting the information clearly. Its not the whole pizza but its a lot of it. He still gets anxiety about assignments in school and meeting expectations. He doesn't always hear, process and remember the details in a teachers lecture and he is going to have a hard time taking notes in junior high while still absorbing all the information. Its difficult for everyone but especially for him. The difference really comes down to that now he can do it. Does he do it with grace and ease? No but he is able to do it competently which is a huge growth. I know you guys like that Able kids filter but I personally like the FM system for school and lecture. Just having a very clear sound come straight to the ear with no distortion really does help with learning, focus and attention.
  4. Dichotic listening is a very tricky thing. This is the area that my son scored the lowest. Initially if you ask him to listen with his right ear and ignore his left ear etc he would become untethered. He has a very hard time concentrating at school if kids are talking on either side of him. The year prior to Fast Forword We tried idichotic and ILS and listening to audiobooks in the left ear only and retained reflexes and basically one hour of home therapy a day over more than an entire year. Then just to make sure their wasn't vision issues we did Vision Therapy. OK now disclosing all that when we put my son back in the CAPD testing auditory booth he had gone up one standard deviation BUT he was one year old hence he scored WORSE than the year before. Then on a leap of faith we spent four months doing Fast Forword and went back and did Accoustic Pioneer for Dichotic listening. When we put him in the booth all scores had gone to normal on dichotic listening and hearing in sound. I think it is because there were other areas in the auditory processing system that were functioning but not perfectly and when we brought those levels up everything went to baseline. Also I was so tempted to do FF with just the weak ear or with the fan blowing but my coach convinced me to have him really tune his system in an ideal environment and then try other methods to work on hearing in sound and dichotic listening if FF didn't get it all the way re mediated. I have stopped doing computer intervention for the last three months because now he is in the normal range and seems to continue to improve in class and in guitar. Over the summer I plan on doing a program called "sound storm" and I plan on finishing and circling back to finish interactive metronome. He is just a different kid now. He can focus and concentrate and his teachers can tell . Its about the best outcome I could have hoped for. Its not perfect we still struggle in noisy environments and we still miss important auditory information and details but its atleast 80% better than it was. You could wait until your daughter gets home from college and see if you could have her demo FF. PP you really would love the webinar on why FF works from my coach. It is really cool science how they teased that out. I just can't explain it in a way to do it justice. I had always wished the FF had added a Foundations 3 that focused exclusively on Dichotic listening, hearing in sound, and more auditory memory so I built that part of the module using other programs. My son finished FF Foundations a year ago in May so it will be interesting when we put him back in the auditory booth if he maintained those gains in dichotic listening.
  5. PP is right a skilled technician not using a computer program will get far more done than you will with homework except for the Retained Reflexes. There are prisms and different modalities to teach the brain to differentiate between different depths and movement of the eye. I did retained reflexes at home. Then I also did Hand eye bal exercises like balavisX . There is a book:Developing Ocular Motor and Visual Perceptual Skills that does some tracking exercises and has some good exercises. They are not the same as what was done at Vision Therapy. I also tried to get a home VT computer program but my therapist told me that they often do not train the brain correctly and can be counterproductive.
  6. We did 36 weeks of vision therapy and fortunately I was able to get my insurance to cover some of it. It was still a very expensive therapy. I agree on the retained reflex therapy first I would do it for two months ( with an OT if I could find one) before starting VT. I suggest that because VT takes some sincere focus and maturity for the mind to train the eye. My sons training was successful and in our follow up he was able to hold all of the gains in tracking, and focusing. If you do not homeschool make sure your child is on the front row and make sure anything you child does not have copy work from the board. Have the teacher provide the paper at the desk so your child doesn't have to repeatedly look up and down. That refocusing is what is fatiguing and so much power and energy is spent doing that they can't learn and can't retain the material. Also Kindle is your friend because you can change background colors to reduce eye strain and have a font that makes the book much easier and faster to read. Also if its on a screen you can use the magnification feature.
  7. Its true its hard to know if the ADHD keeps them from concentrating enough to get the repetitions in to re mediate and help them excel. In my sons situation even if he was giving something his total attention, even hyperfocusing he could not follow directions and remember the words in his head long enough to get them out on paper. Does medication help at all? I ask because I have found that if it does help a good measure of their best best best is the window when the medication is working the best. If they still have the weakness even on medication it usually means that some kind of remediation is needed. For example before FF my son could not remember or sing the lyrics to songs. Now he sings all the time and can remember lyrics. This tells me that FF did help with the Auditory Memory. About 4 months into FF my son learned to turn his attention to the sound. You know when you hear a sound and then turn towards it? He couldn't do that before. A tool only works if it is the right tool. We have failed more programs than we have succeeded on PP yes you can hack some of FForward. The games aren't novel, its the way they are implemented. Especially the foundations stuff. It is about as exciting as watching paint dry to do this program but it is honestly just repetitions and fine tuning. Worst case scenario my son would have finished the program in 20 days and I would have been out 1500 bucks for the year. Really anyone considering FF should get a consult and a demo and some initial sessions before commiting . When I went with the coach I got the program for less money and for an entire year with a lot of support. I didn't get the 30 day refund. Luckily my son demo'd the program enough that I had some confidence we could do it and it might help.
  8. Lips is probably a very good program. I have always been interested in it. My son's Speach therapy focused on the function of the R sound and where it was in the mouth at different times and how the toungue and the jaw interacted. He had a retatined reflex called jaw toungue disassociation where he when his jaw moved his toungue went with it. He was able to pronounce all sounds but the letter R in all its forms. I am sure that it is because at an early age he had ear infections and he actually had a congenital situation where there was a flap of skin in his ear canal. That is likely why he didn't hear that sound quite correctly and hence didn't program his brain to pronounce R correctly. It was a minor condition, easily fixed in 2nd grade but caused long term challenges with Auditory Processing. Lips would work for many auditory awareness issues only if the child could get give enough cooperation and enough repetitions to get the brain to recognize it. This whole process is building neural pathways. Repetition and approximation, It takes time and it takes consistency and most importantly it takes resilience to keep trying until the brain fires consistently on the right pattern. I think the reason why many of these programs do not achieve the success needed is either they are not the right program, or the child could not get enough time,cooperation and repetition to achieve the effects of neuroplasticity in building that skill. Know how the sound shape works isn't enough. Its like Basketball : shooting enough baskets where you are consistantly sinking the ball through the net is the key. Hitting a basket here or there isn't enough. It takes time and effort. That being said Fast Forword was pretty good at keeping the kid shooting the baskets until those specific skills were achieved. I didn't like the Hearbuilder with their level achievement method. We had to reset the game a few times and reward heavily to make sure enough repetitions got in to achieve success with that program. You see this in programs where a kid gets stuck at a level and can't progress, the program keeps making the child repeat that level. It gets discouraging and a discouraged mind does not get the repetitions in to remediate. This never happens with Fast Forward Foundations because the program is sophisticated. Its algorithm switches between modes and levels so the brain always is doing something that its good at. It tricks you into doing enough repetitions of the challenging frequencies or sound to get that 90% adherence consistently. My son finished foundations in May and he now plays a mean guitar with good rhythm. Something he could not do prior to FF. That tells me that the program had lasting gains. I won't know for sure until we test him again in May but he is getting A's and handling school much better. BrainHQ will give you as many repetitions as you need as well but the tracking software is primitive and I just felt like I was shooting baskets everyday like brushing my teeth. I didn't have enough reward to motivate to do it consistantly everyday with the same game to get the improvement required. Eventually I set a timer and played the same game for 20 minutes. This was similiar to the study they did with BrainHQ. Even then it was pretty lame to have to use all my willpower to log on to work on the same game everyday. I should have just set a goal for 30 days and then moved on to the next game I was poor at. That would have ensured enough repetitions but at the same time it is just so annoying to shoot baskets over and over again to get the repetitions.
  9. you ask "Do you think it's good at teaching language concepts, or is it mostly for auditory processing?" . Its a long answer and my coach could explain it better but FF was developed by a team including Michael Merzenich. My understanding is that it has been used with many areas but where it excels is with kids who struggle with reading and listening to oral instructions. I really think in my situation the program just happened to address the specific leaks and weaknesses in my sons auditory system . My son was an adequate reader at grade level but he jumped from 4th grade reading to 10th grade reading doing that program. The school didn't know we were doing the program. The principal called and was amazed. They even tested him twice because they thought it was inaccurate. He got an award at the school. His teacher said his verbal expression had grown significantly as well. He still has a focus challenge in noise but it has improved by a huge amount and we plan to still work on that. There are some modules that I supplemented with Hearbuilder( I wanted more Auditory memory even though the programs in FF were good), accoustic Pioneer( Dichotic listening app that we completed) and audio books after he finished foundations. It isn't the whole answer but it is very very good at what it does if the child has a weakness it can address. My son tested completely out of CAPD after doing FF now I am more polishing the edges because in some areas he is "low/ medium" normal and when stressed he doesn't do as well with listening and hearing in noise etc. Keeping consistency up was key ( as it is with everything) we did it 45 minutes 4-5 days a week and I bribed and rewarded liberally. I think the coach I work with only demo's with her clients so pm me if you are interested in that she would give you a free phone consult and a free webinar explaining FF . If you have a FF specialist you want to work with in your area ask them to let you demo it, It is a huge commitment without seeing whats "inside the box" My coach did a webinar with me and explained the concepts behind the program and it made the program more appealing than just watching these simple games that fine tune the auditory processing system. She has a lot of integrity and more kiddos than she needs so she wouldn't pressure you to use the program if you didn't need it. She worked with FF in the schools for years and years and has seen probably 100's of kiddos go through the program. She knows who needs it and who doesn't. She knows what it will help and researched some challenges my son had to help him as well. I found this coach because I was so unhappy with the information I was getting directly through FastForword. There wasn't a therapist locally who was experienced in FF and could really coach through it. I read a website with her commenting to some parents who were stuck in FF. She was just so smart and on target I felt like she was speaking to me. I contacted her and asked if she ever coached online kids as we are two states away. The whole experience was very very positive. My son was stuck numerous times and we would have quit but she helped us problem solve through it. She also understood the data and helped us get through it. It was more cost effective with better results and I had the program for an entire year. We spent around 6 months on the Foundations 1 and 2 then worked on the Reading modules until our program expired. The reading/literacy sections are a very good resource for reading improvement and would work well with a homeschooling curriculum. It does work on a broad area of reading with comprehension, memory , understanding and building logic outlines etc. It needed some support from the parent but overall I was happy with that program as well. I used it to build around the current literacy program and cement concepts. I could even demo the program and create a lesson plan that the literacy section supported. For example in the upper levels of the literacy portion: my 11 year old could not do ven diagrams and so FF taught him that. I also worked on concept webs with him and ordering of paragraphs and supporting ideas. The beginning levels work on listening comprehension and forming words and sentences. I used those to work on auditory listening and building fluency and vocabulary. I was determined to get every bit of juice out of the lemon since I paid for a BIG LEMON. My coach would give you a free skype consult and webinar. She can better explain what the program does as far as fine tuning the auditory processing system. I do wish it was offered to every child in 1st grade. I also wish that parents with children who have any kind of reading disorder even dyslexia could have the program for free paid by the state because Barton would be so much easier for them if they did FF Foundations first in my opinion. I have a nephew who has tubes in his ears from ear infections and if I could pay for the program and get my sister in law to do it I would because I believe it would save him so many years of trials that my son has experienced. It only addressed specific kids but the kids it helps it helps alot as in my sons case. I shared this story before but at the follow up yearly testing my son had re mediated his CAPD 100%. He went up in all areas in some cases 3 standard deviations. The audiologist and SLP were astounded and so impressed that FF did that. They didn't know how to offer the program to parents because of the cost and that it isn't covered by insurance. Its sold as a reading program but it works for Auditory Processing. Do the auditory testing and then pm me if you want some feedback on the test results. I am happy to chat on the phone. I have lots of ideas about Auditory Processing. I feel like I put as much time into researching it for my son as I did my graduate degree.
  10. PP BrainHQ is really cheap though like 14 dollars a month and I think you can even try the first month free. They always have discount codes for a year subscription so just sign up for the email. They also let you try different stuff each week without a subscription. It was my Fast Forword Coach that told me about Brain HQ. I should write about the R pronunciation in another thread. It was a long process with a good therapist who understood the mechanics and gave up a lot of "wax on Wax off " exercises. My son really took off with the focus, attention and pronunciation during/after fast forword. If anyone ever wants to chat on the phone about this or by email I am happy to share our experience just pm me. In the beginning my son had major problems with jaw movement and association to the toungue. The therapist had us crunch cherrious slowly while making different sounds to increase awareness of how much pressure the jaw and toungue needed to make the R sound. There are 21 R sounds in the english language and that isn't even taking into account english words with a double R in it where the jaw has to release and the toungue has to move to different places in the mouth quickly and with precision. Our SLP was a function SLP and I owe him a tremendous debt for helping my son. We practiced daily at home for close to a year but now we are getting close to being completely done with speech therapy. My son made the most gains the 6 months we did Fast Forword but then after we finished the foundations he continued to make consistant gains with each of the 21 R sounds. Now it is just rebuilding the last of the muscle memory from having the brain do the old pattern. Knowing what to do, Doing it daily to build enough repetitions, and not giving up is our Motto in our house. Back to FF, I changed computers but I probably have the notes I took from January 2018 when we were one month into FF. I am a bit slammed this week but I made a little spreadsheet somewhere comparing the exercises in FF to the ones in BrainHQ. Many are similar but the BrainHQ doesn't push the repetitions long enough and thorough enough. If a parent was diligent with a timer and rewards they could probably use BrainHQ exclusively with a preteen/ teen. Certainly there is good Working Memory stuff and both auditory and Visual training in that program. I did it for two months because I have so much short term memory loss from chemotherapy. The thing is its very hard to know what progress you are making and if you have mastered a skill. FF takes care of all of that. If a skill is too hard it dials it to an area you are good at and then moves you back as your progress. It is very good at keeping the frusteration low as you "wax the car". When we started out my son had to do the program in total silence. He couldn't even have the microwave fan on. The Program continues repetitions until the skill attains mastery at 90% of normal range. I wish Cogmed was designed like this because I would like to try it for more working memory training but it is very frusterating to do and repeating levels is discouraging. Most kiddos quit. In hindsight I should have logged on to my sons FF program and used the teen version there for myself while he was going through the elementary school version. Sadly my membership has expired so to late for that cool idea. I do love his FF private coach and she was generous in that she let us demo the FF program before paying for it . She lives in a different state and it was all online. That is something that FF doesn't let you do directly and I am still annoyed as all get out about that. It was alot of money and I held my breath when I committed to it. It took dedication and patience to get all the way through it but fortunately FF targeted his specific deficit. I was fortunate in that my son went in the auditory and speech assessments right before I did the program and after I did FF foundations 1 and 2. There was huge measurable result but not every skill our kid is missing can be measured that way and we still aren't out of the woods. I know this is cliche but he was a different kiddo coming out of FF than going in.( attention, auditory recognition, dichotic listening, hearing in noise, working memory) I still haven't figured out how much was FF and how much was maturing. How I handled the whole FF brainHQ thing is I did a week long practace with BrainHQ noting which games my son was good at and which ones he struggled. Then my coach let us demo FF and I could hear the clunks as he did the exercises. I was fairly confident it would fill in some missing gaps for him OK now I should expand a bit more so one of the programs in Fast Forword measures certain auditory skills at different frequencies and re mediates them through auditory attention and recognition. My son could do all of the exercises efficiently at 2K but clunked for days and days in the 500Hz range. Over 65 days/sessions the program helped train his brain and ear to " hear and process" that gap in his auditory processing. This was a gap we didn't even know existed with the standard booth testing for Auditory Processing. Maybe that is why he was so successful with FF. There is a video on youtube I wish I could find where this adult man who was 27 had a brain injury and he flew to a clinic ran by Michael Merzenich the creator of BrainHQ and Fast Forword. They showed how much he rehabilitated and I recognized the FF and BrainHQ exercises. Here is an article about it "New treatment for brain injuries" The video is awesome to watch it really made me commit to try it. I think this is theTV episode for Brain HQ and Fast Forword. Theses programs he is doing in the video are early versions of Fast Forword and BrainHQI watched on Ryan Reitmeyer, That Dr. Michael Merzenich is just gold in my book and his research has helped my son . I would think that anybody over 12 could do BrainHQ and if they did it consistantly and with enough repetitions they would see progress. I really have come to believe in Brain Plasticity as I have seen it with my son's brain over the past two years and I have seen it with my own brain after Chemotherapy. Also for adults there is a program online called LACE it is very good but the reading level is very high. It is intended for improving Auditory Processing and hearing in noise for adults who are losing their peripheral hearing. The thing is it would work fantastically for Auditory Processing and I am thinking of just using the program to rehab my brain now that I am out of Chemo. I will post if I find it helps. Here is a youtube on that LACE Auditory Retraining program. We tried it at the auditory center but the level was way way high like for someone in their 20's or 30's
  11. My son and I have reviewed and looked at almost every kind of Auditory program. He has Auditory processing and the therapist at the hearing center let us review and demo several programs. Each program targets different areas and age groups. Some question would be a test to see where your kiddo is low in skills and high in targeted area. If the child is over 8 an easy way to do this is to sign up for one month of BrainHQ and sit with them with headphones and let them try all of the auditory programs on there. Fast Forword is made by the same creator of BrainHQ. Sound Sweeps, Memory Grid, Auditory Ace are adult programs that are an adults less sophisticated version of some of the games from Fast Forword. If your child graduates from Sound Sweeps quickly and with precision that would tell you that this is not a board that needs to be nailed down. If it is a big challenge for your child then FF is the way to go. It is the only program that I have found that creates enough repetitions to get the child to mastery. The program adjusts up and down so the child doesn't get discouraged and the data the coach gives you keeps the child progressing and improving. Honestly when they showed me the FastForword I thought it was lame. Its like the Karate Kid movie from years ago where daniel waxes the cars over and over again to build muscle memory. This is exactly what the program does. Your child works through the program "waxing" with his ears until the auditory system fine tunes itself. Don't pay for it unless you are willing to do it everyday atleast 4-5 days a week for a few months. We started in December and went all the way to Febuary for the Foundations level 1. Then March through May for Foundations level 2. At that point we finished everything but Jumper gym and since that was very important we worked on that along with zoo caper sky scraper and Hear Builder Auditory Memory. At that point we finished up and could have graduated. My son tested completely normal in all areas of Auditory Processing and the Audiologist and SLP were astounded with his follow up testing. Since I paid for the program, I elected to do the reading modules and let him work through those for August to December when the program expired. Now We are pretty much done with auditory training. Also my son could not pronounce any R sounds and we had gone through over a year of speach therapy and a year of ILS system exercises, retained reflexes before starting FF. The year we did this he made zero progress in the auditory testing and even got a little worse. That is why I decided to take a chance on FF. In the first 6 months he did FF he soared through speach therapy and now is ready to graduate and can pronounce all R's . We are just seeing the therapist for 1 session a month to sweep up any muscle memory that might be hanging around in commonly used words. My son will miss them about 20% of the time. This is astounding considering the speech to text on the ipad did not work at all for my son in August of 2017 and now it works fine as his pronunciation improved that much. If I was dedicated and committed to doing it daily I saw the FF going one of two ways. I either paid for it and my son sailed through it and finished it quickly with no setbacks. This would tell me I didn't nail the right area and wasted my money. Or it would find the areas my son was weak and identify them and nail the boards down tightly. Coming out of FF I was confident I caught most of the troubled areas and worked on a few loose boards with the other programs mentioned . My coach let us demo the program and so we could tell that he was not going to sail through it and it might be worth the time and money. For my son's situation I was a skeptic but now I honestly believe it changed our lives and I am very very glad I did it. My son also did Hearbuilder Auditory Memory but if he were under 9 and willing the entire Hearbuilder program is good. It was just a bit young as far as interface . I have also looked into Cogmed. My son struggled like crazy with HR auditory memory so we stopped and then did FF. We returned to HR afterwards and he sailed through it. He also struggled with accoustic pioneer Skyscraper Zoo Caper Sky Scraper but was able to quickly master it after we returned to it after completing FF. Earobics is ok it will get the Auditory memory done but it is level based and has a very young interface. I also feel the same about Auditory workout on the ipad and a few other programs. there is one program I am still considering and that is soundstorm ( hearing in sound) and interactive metronome( Temporal processing we have the home IM but have only done 8 lessons with success, my son has pretty good rhythm now after FF) but my son is doing very well now so I haven't pursued them.
  12. I would help work on the motor visual tactile system by adding an art time during the day where he uses a tracing board like This. My son had stalled out with handwriting so we added this tracing process each day of pictures or shapes or little avatars. Over six months I did see a huge improvement in his fine motor skills and his ability to remember words while he was writing them. The tracing board we have runs on the same chord as our android phones so rather than plugging it in my son just runs it off of a small cell phone battery . It makes it very portable and has an adjustable light level. Now I am working to break some of his bad formation habits and help line up his hand with the line to make the letters stop popping up and down. My son does not have dyslexia but another idea I developed this month is having him rite repetitive sentences each day ( so let him pick 5 sentences that have meaning to him and have him write those everyday on level 1 paper) I use raised line therapro paper but I also highlight paper so he writes every other line if needed. Next month we are going to work on doing copy work exclusively focused on common words, site words and words that come up in his writing all the time. This will help him build confidence in the motor and brain system by building up repetition.
  13. Yeh I don't like the erasers either. They fall out in my sons backback. I keep meaning to try a glue gun and put a dab of glue on the eraser. I tried super glue and it didn't work. Really they are the only pencil my son can produce a semi functional letter with and he doesn't break the lead. As he gets older I want to try the Foam Grip Tubing and the egg pencil grips but initially it was a total fight the entire way to get a pencil to stay in the hand in the proper position. For whatever reason those papermates 1.3mm provided the structure and the consistancy as they couldn't be moved or slid. In hindsight my son really had a few sensory challenges with writing implements. He hated crayons as they were too slick. He eventually grew out of that. For a pen he likes a Uniball Onyx Rolling Ball Pen.7mm, he would like the 1mm even more if I could find it. HE says they feel more like a pencil and he can't handle the glide and speed of a true ball point pen. I think a foam grip on one of those would also be useful. It takes some experimentation thats for sure. I will update in the "best pencil" thread if I find a way to keep those erasers to stay in the papermate
  14. yes all good ideas Personally the papermate pencils worked for us after all other pencil grips and holders failed. Whatever he is willing to do consistently to get enough repetitions in I say go for it. I think getting in a good writing position is important so the shoulder can work and the helper hand is in place. Some people really like to raise the writing surface with a drafting desk or large binder. I didn't find that helped with the hooked holding. For practice I would go further. I would even separate unique and novel words from handwriting skill work. Keep it repetitive so the mind has time to anticipate the word he writing and build a motor pattern for those letters. Part of the challenge I found with my own son is that we seldom wrote the same sentences daily so each day his brain had to rethink those letters. This month we came up with 5 sentences of his choosing that included all letters of the alphabet. then each day he writes those same sentences on level 1 paper to work on spacing, alignment, shoulder stability , helper hand. Adding spacing, staying on the raised line. We are only on day 12 and plan to do 30days (1 page/per) of this work then isolate letters that need help one more time.
  15. ok that was incredibly helpful. I am eating popcorn watching this thread because my son started with that exact grip. the hoook on the right hand. I was able to move that middle finger to a more proper grip but it didn't last. also honestly his writing looks very similiar. We worked on getty and dubay and that helped quite a bit because the letters flow ( y is the worst in HWT. he really really had a hard time with stick letters. ) Also that grip is tough to write HWT letters because they are straight up and down. Getty and dubay allows a more neutral wrist which improves flow and comfort. My son now writes without his hand getting tired but spacing and staying on the line is tough. the handwriting specialist recomended that I try the paper with raised lines but I thought they were kind of expensive and I am not sure how useful. First he probably needs a desk/kitchentable. writing surface because that hook makes it hard to see his work. Here are the tips that the writing specialist told us. her name is kate gladstone you can google her as she also might send you a book about this. She is the only one that told me the grip he was using would work with a few tweeks. First she told me to move the paper to the right a bit and always always have him use the helper hand on the paper to shift the papers she pointed out that his hand does not grow out of the center of his chest so since he writes with a bit of a hook I need to turn his paper and shift it to the right. Next shoulder writing really really really helps. also doing work on a board on the wall would help immensely. Or using wipeable markers and doing the work on a glass door might work. get rid of the traditional pencils. Try a foam wrap around a regular pencil or try those triangular pencils. We never go without them anymore.
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