PineFarmMom Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Would it be possible for an average math mom to teach Dolicani Algebra 1 with just the text? Also, would finishing this enable a child to step into Derek Owens Algebra 2? I'd love to do DO for Algebra 1, but we have two children in university now and 3 others that we homeschool. I'm trying to be wise with money. My goal is to prep my upcoming 8th grader to take online classes with DO later (maybe Alg. 2 and Pre-Cal) and possibly do dual credit Calculus his senior year. By that time, I'll have one who graduates out of university so money won't be as tight. We could swing it financially this year, but I'd have to ditch some outside classes: violin, swim team, etc. I'd really like to teach it myself if possible since it is the last level of math that I could actually handle without more help. I have Lial's Introductory Algebra and am looking it over. I initially didn't like the looks at all, but am seeing how I could lay it out for a school year and it seems doable for me to teach. I pretty well grasp most of it, and what I don't grasp, a little review would nail it down for me. I have concerns about it and the next text Intermediate Algebra being enough for Alg 1 and 2. I've read accounts on these boards that the 2nd book is not equivalent to Alg. 2. Is the 1st book actually equivalent to Alg 1? If it is, I would be happy to use it if I felt it would be enough prep for DO later on. Again, I do own TT Algebra 1 through Pre-cal. I'm tossing around the idea of supplementing it with Lial's or Dolciani (if/when I buy a copy). So my question there is how do you supplement? Do you dedicate a day per week to utilizing an extra text? Do you just throw in extra problems each day? I see many people saying they use multiple texts I don't quite understand how one does that. I'm a check-the-box type person. I need some kind of method to the whole supplementing/using more than one text avenue. If I utilized what I own, i.e., TT, could I pull together a solid higher math plan by using the teaching on the videos and some of the problems and supplementing other sources? Or would I just be driving myself crazy? My plan would look something like this: 8th grade - Alg 1 (using whatever it is I make a decision on...Dolciani Algebra 1, TT Alg 1 and part of 2 supplemented with Lials and/or other resources, maybe just Lial's) 9th grade - Geometry - maybe using TT since I own it...I've heard it is fairly solid?? Opinions?? 10th grade - Alg 2 Derek Owens 11th grade - Pre-Calculus - Derek Owens 12th grade - Calculus - Dual Credit or Derek Owens I get the feeling from reading reviews that TT could be solid if done in a way where you consider Alg 1, 2, and pre-cal as being more of an Alg 1-2 course load then maybe finishing it off with a solid pre-calculus year then calculus year using other curriculum. Are my hopes too high there? This is the 3rd math post I've posted in as many weeks. Thanks for your help. I'm really trying to get my thoughts down with the hopes that those who know a lot more than me will chime in. Yes, I've read basically every algebra 1 post that I can find on the WTM forums, along with the fence straddler thread and the post at the top of the forum that includes the multiple math choices. :) I would really like to make a plan and stick if I can or at least utilize curriculum that my children wouldn't suffer if I switched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 The easy answer is yes, Dolciani is fine prep to go into Derek Owens later. The difficult piece is if YOU can do it. I'm not sure how to define an "average" mom. Algebra is a very important foundation to every math and science that follows. Do you understand how to manipulate equations well? Equations with fractions and negatives? How to apply the distributive property in algebra? I find that some just teach step 1, step 2, step 3 and don't really understand the nuances of how really to manipulate numbers and equations. Whatever you choose for Algebra 1, you can always ask for help along the way if you need it. You can even sign up for DO mid-semester and start anywhere if needed. I haven't looked at TT enough to give an opinion on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 The easy answer is yes, Dolciani is fine prep to go into Derek Owens later. The difficult piece is if YOU can do it. I'm not sure how to define an "average" mom. Algebra is a very important foundation to every math and science that follows. Do you understand how to manipulate equations well? Equations with fractions and negatives? How to apply the distributive property in algebra? I find that some just teach step 1, step 2, step 3 and don't really understand the nuances of how really to manipulate numbers and equations. Whatever you choose for Algebra 1, you can always ask for help along the way if you need it. You can even sign up for DO mid-semester and start anywhere if needed. I haven't looked at TT enough to give an opinion on it. No, I don't. I'd like to learn, but I'm not proficient at it. Some of what you said about step 1, 2, 3 is a reason we left Saxon. It was often too formulaic for a child who had learned to think mathematically via singapore from k-6. He just wanted to do the math how he knew to make it happen. Some of the steps seemed senseless to him when he felt he had a more sensible plan to lay out a problem. Maybe I do need to just suck it up and pay for DO, at least for the grade-it-yourself option. I took a lot of efforts for K-6 math, effort that paid off. I just don't want to drop the ball now!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) Without the answer key, I don't think someone who doesn't really feel comfortable with everything covered in the text could teach it well. Sorry. Even with the answer key, if you aren't comfortable, I'm not sure it would go well. The answer doesn't help much if you can't figure out what the steps were to get you there. I felt really comfortable with Dolciani but even I pulled out the answer key every once in a while. FWIW, I'm not a math lover and wasn't a math major, but I always did quite well in math and I'm comfortable with Algebra. I think the average person who is comfortable with Algebra could teach it with just the text, but if you run into trouble you'd need someone to help you without the answer key. With the answer key, I could always work myself back and figure it out. Without it, I'd have had to find someone who knew what they were doing or literally tell DS, I dunno, just forget about that problem and move on. Edited May 25, 2017 by Paige 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) (very average math mom here) :) I agree with every word of Paige's post. For Dolciani, get the TM. Well worth it. It outlines different tracks for average and advanced courses, which I found very helpful. I do not have enough upper math know-how to tell what *had* to be covered vs. what *could* be covered if you had the time or ability. It was very freeing to find out that everything would be okay even if we didn't do ___ problem set or even ___ lesson. The TM also had additional examples to work through, quizzes that could be used, and notes on teaching--not scripted teaching for each lesson, but very helpful (to me) teaching notes. I also needed answers. All the answers. Not just the odds. I highly recommend a Solutions Manual, if you can find one that does not require taking out a second mortgage on the house. ;) Edited May 25, 2017 by Zoo Keeper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (very average math mom here) :) I agree with every word of Paige's post. For Dolciani, get the TM. Well worth it. It outlines different tracks for average and advanced courses, which I found very helpful. I do not have enough upper math know-how to tell what *had* to be covered vs. what *could* be covered if you had the time or ability. It was very freeing to find out that everything would be okay even if we didn't do ___ problem set or even ___ lesson. The TM also had additional examples to work through, quizzes that could be used, and notes on teaching--not scripted teaching for each lesson, but very helpful (to me) teaching notes. I also needed answers. All the answers. Not just the odds. I highly recommend a Solutions Manual, if you can find one that does not require taking out a second mortgage on the house. ;) I didn't even know to look for a TM. I only had the Solutions Key. I was lucky and got it relatively cheap on ebay. Extra quizzes would have been very helpful for my son. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (very average math mom here) :) I agree with every word of Paige's post. For Dolciani, get the TM. Well worth it. It outlines different tracks for average and advanced courses, which I found very helpful. I do not have enough upper math know-how to tell what *had* to be covered vs. what *could* be covered if you had the time or ability. It was very freeing to find out that everything would be okay even if we didn't do ___ problem set or even ___ lesson. The TM also had additional examples to work through, quizzes that could be used, and notes on teaching--not scripted teaching for each lesson, but very helpful (to me) teaching notes. I also needed answers. All the answers. Not just the odds. I highly recommend a Solutions Manual, if you can find one that does not require taking out a second mortgage on the house. ;) This is especially important when using texts designed for classroom use. These texts often have a lot of problems, with the expectation that some may be done in class as examples and others will be assigned as homework, but that no student would do all of the problems. Dolciani often has A, B and C level problems. Some classes might do mostly A and B, others B and C, others B, C and selected review from previous lessons. There are other curriculum that do expect a student would do each problem in a lesson. For example, Saxon math has review built into the problem sets, rather than assigning problems that are part of a previous lesson. If you skip problems with Saxon, you may skip review problems or miss problems designed to lead into subsequent lessons. It can really help to read the introduction to the teacher material and figure out what the design parameters of the course are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Average-ish math mom here, just wrapping up Dolciani Algebra I, and another "ditto" to Paige's post. Our options this year were Dolciani taught by mom (cheap & rigorous but I had to stay on it) or our online charter (cheap and easy for mom but no real way to gauge challenge level). We chose Dolciani, and it has been a FANTASTIC course for *me* personally, and for both of my girls, too; occasionally (maybe 1/4 of the C-problems) I did not know how to do it, so I would either reverse-engineer or Google. I have younger kids, so it made a lot of sense to invest the effort & skill; we will use the same approach next year with geometry, and probably outsource Algebra II, and definitely outsource pre-calc & calc. Both girls took an early-practice SAT and did fine mathematically. The extra materials were very helpful to me, too; if the girls did not do well on a chapter test, we stopped, backed up, re-learned / taught, and used the additional tests until I was comfortable that they both KNEW it. Yes, this is more time-consuming. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Average-ish math mom here, just wrapping up Dolciani Algebra I, and another "ditto" to Paige's post. Our options this year were Dolciani taught by mom (cheap & rigorous but I had to stay on it) or our online charter (cheap and easy for mom but no real way to gauge challenge level). We chose Dolciani, and it has been a FANTASTIC course for *me* personally, and for both of my girls, too; occasionally (maybe 1/4 of the C-problems) I did not know how to do it, so I would either reverse-engineer or Google. I have younger kids, so it made a lot of sense to invest the effort & skill; we will use the same approach next year with geometry, and probably outsource Algebra II, and definitely outsource pre-calc & calc. Both girls took an early-practice SAT and did fine mathematically. The extra materials were very helpful to me, too; if the girls did not do well on a chapter test, we stopped, backed up, re-learned / taught, and used the additional tests until I was comfortable that they both KNEW it. Yes, this is more time-consuming. :) This is really helpful and kind of the route I was wanting to take. The problem is that I'm not finding teacher's manuals reasonably priced, and I am not really clear on how to find them that would match a textbook. I would really like to learn along with him. I also have two more children below him, so me putting the time in now would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 This is really helpful and kind of the route I was wanting to take. The problem is that I'm not finding teacher's manuals reasonably priced, and I am not really clear on how to find them that would match a textbook. I would really like to learn along with him. I also have two more children below him, so me putting the time in now would be great. Dolciani's from the 60's and 70's have more reasonably priced *student* books, but the TM's are much harder to find and therefore very pricey. Solutions Manuals are like trying to catch a unicorn... Dolciani texts from the mid 80's and early 90's are much easier to find both student and teacher materials. Matching cover art is usually a good indicator of compatibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I bookmarked this Dolciani thread from long, long ago... :thumbup: It speaks to the search for these Dolciani texts, and maybe it can be of help. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) I ended up grabbing the 80s version because that's what I used in 8th and what I'm most comfortable with. I paid $8.50 for the book, $21.92 for the solutions manual and $21.84 for the teacher's manual so $52-ish for all three in 2014. DD will be doing selected problems from that and DM7CC this summer. Edited May 25, 2017 by Sneezyone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) Even though I really liked the vibe of the mid-70's Dolciani student book I had, I ended up buying mid-80's Dolciani Algebra 1 and 2. My son was doing very well with Dolciani's Pre Algebra (1985/88 edition), so it made sense to stick with the same sequence. Algebra Structure and Method Book 1: isbn for the student book: 0395352495 copyright 1986 isbn for teacher's edition: 0395352509 copyright 1986 isbn for solution key: 039544361X copyright 1986 (1988 impression is the same). I had to scour around on Ebay, Amazon, abebooks, betterworldbooks, and alibiris to put it all together. Bookfinder.com and used.addall.com were helpful sites as well. I paid around $35 - $40 for all three; student book (in excellent condition!) was only 14 cents plus shipping. :) Edited May 25, 2017 by Zoo Keeper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 We are using the 1990 (reprinted 1997) version, and I had very good luck with ex-school copies on AbeBooks (TE was around $10-ish, student editions $5-7-ish, and I am borrowing the supplemental materials from a local friend, though I later found 1-2 of those on ebay reasonably priced). Not sure if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 On AbeBooks you can set up a search that will allow you to filter by year, price and condition. You'll get an email when new books are posted. This was a good way to get a matched set. I also went through phases of having several editions before I got sets I was happy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I have a reprint from 2000, I think. And a TM from a different year that's labeled "California Edition" but they totally match up - for whatever that's worth. You got great advice here. We did Dolciani Pre-A and ds just started the algebra (he's on chapter 3). I think you may need the solutions more than the TM though. The TM outlines some different tracks with the material and there are some teaching notes, but IMHO, they're not especially creative or innovative or anything. If you're unsure about your own skills in doing the math then you need to be able to see the solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) I would use multiple texts as needed - your student might find that certain topics might be easier to understand in the alternate text there are some free texts online Put together an outline of what you think needs to be covered for Algebra 1 you could use the Derek Owens Algebra 1 outline you can also purchase his workbooks for a reasonable price on Lulu http://www.lulu.com/shop/derek-owens/algebra-1-semester-1-student-workbook/paperback/product-22920373.html http://www.lulu.com/shop/derek-owens/algebra-1-semester-2-student-workbook/paperback/product-22920369.html maybe just use the second semester workbook to save some money and allow transition to Derek Owens Algebra 2 Edited May 27, 2017 by MarkT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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