Beth in Central TX Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 After my DH and I decided to go with the older Dolciani math textbooks, I started my search for the books on-line. My 1st purchase was made on April 21, 2008, and I received my last book of the series yesterday, June 23, 2008. Here's what I ended up with: Modern Algebra Structure & Method Book 1 Teacher's Edition and Student Text with answers (1965) Modern Geometry Structure & Method Teacher's Edition and Student Text (1965) Modern School Mathematics Algebra 2 & Trigonometry Teacher's Edition and Student Text with answers (1971) Modern Introductory Analysis Teacher's Edition, Student Text, and Solution Manual (1964) I purchased most of these books from Amazon.com and Ebay. It took me 2 months to locate them, and I have a collection of other books because I didn't know what I was doing at first. Therefore, I'd like to share some helps for those of you considering this route. 1. A teacher's edition has a separate teacher's manual (usually on green paper) at the beginning of the book along with teacher notes throughout the rest of the text. In addition, the words "TEACHER'S EDITION" are printed on the spine. I've had many sellers try to pass off a text with all of the answers in the back as the teacher's edition; they are not the same. 2. The student texts come in 3 different formats: one has all of the answers in the back (this is noted on the spine as "with answers", but see #1 above); one has only the odd-numbered answers in the back (no distinguishing features); and one has no answers in the back (no distinguishing features). If you want answers in the student text, you'll need to ask the seller first because it's generally not noted in the description. 3. Look for the Teacher's Edition first and then search for the student text. This doesn't always work though. I thought I was buying the student text for Modern Intro Analysis, but it was actually the Teacher's Edition which isn't all that bad because I got it at a really good price! Also remember #1 above--even though it's labeled a teacher's edition by the seller doesn't always mean that it is. I've also found that people will list these books under the closest description available. I thought I was purchasing the Teacher's Edition for the 1970 edition of Modern Algebra Book 1. It turned out to be the coveted 1965 edition that I couldn't find. Luckily, I had the student text for both 1965 & 1970 because I was doing it backwards in the beginning. 4. When searching for these books look under the name Dolciani (and any misspellings you can think of), but also look under the name of the book you are looking for because some of the sellers don't list the author(s). 5. If you have local used book stores and library sales, be sure to check there too. We don't have many options where I live, so I chose to find my books via the internet. I did have to pay for shipping, but right now that option was generally cheaper than a gallon of gas... 6. If you think that a book is priced too much, ask the seller to consider a lower price. I purchased 2 teacher editions this way at Amazon.com. The sellers were very easy to work with, and for the most part accommodating to my requests. Some did refuse, so I looked elsewhere. "Buy it now" ebay sellers have the new "make an offer" button too. 7. Finally, the noted "condition" of these 40-year old books can be a very relative term. The Geometry books I ended up with were noted as acceptable, but I had to do a lot of work to revive the student text I ended up with. On the other hand, some of the books I ended up with were "like new" even though they were old. For the most part, they look like old math books, but they are still very usable. Don't expect a lot as far as overall condition goes, and you will sometimes be pleasantly surprised, and other times you will be happy just to have the book. I hope this helps someone who is considering this route. As a planner, I wanted to have the whole series before I started our higher level math sequence next summer. It seemed like a daunting task when I started, but I think it was well worth my effort. Take care, Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Although I advocate Dolciani texts, I have never performed this thorough of research on them. Bravo to Beth for sheer tenacity! (Sorry Beth, but I must spread some rep before giving you more. You deserve it for your hard work.) Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleinMN Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Thank you so much for this post! I have considered the Dolciani texts, but the search just seemed too daunting for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profmom Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 (Sorry Beth, but I must spread some rep before giving you more. You deserve it for your hard work.) Jane Me too! Thanks for the info! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Wow, Beth! You really did your homework! How kind of you to share that information with the rest of us. This is an example of what makes these forums so invaluable to so many. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Beth, this is just one example of why I like your posts so much. Wow! I'd rep you again if I could! I'm bookmarking this thread for future reference. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meredith Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I am definitely bookmarking your thread for this valuable information! Sorry to ask, but since I am new around here, I have a question as to WHY you need the older (and hard-to-find) versions of Dolciani. I have looked at a new book called Algebra: Structure and Method, Book 1 published by McDougal Littell with Dolciani as an author. Is this a different book? What is so distinctive about the older Dolciani versions? TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 What is so distinctive about the older Dolciani versions? TIA! Axioms, proofs, rigor. The old editions were published as part of a post-Sputnik reaction to step up the level of science and math education in this country. Dolciani was a mathematician; many newer math texts authors are penned by math educators. There is a difference in presentation of material. Jane (who used Dolciani as a high school student--and majored in math as a result) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in Central TX Posted June 24, 2008 Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 Axioms, proofs, rigor. The old editions were published as part of a post-Sputnik reaction to step up the level of science and math education in this country. Dolciani was a mathematician; many newer math texts authors are penned by math educators. There is a difference in presentation of material. Jane (who used Dolciani as a high school student--and majored in math as a result) Jane is our resident endorsee for the older Dolciani math books, and I'll defer to her personal experience as the expert in this area. I first heard about these books on the old board, probably from Jane. Since I found Rod & Staff for our elementary math sequence, my goal had been to find a similar high school level math series (preferably from one author and/or publisher). This past year I found out the the math series I had chosen had decided to "revise" their books to make them "accessible to more students." That didn't sound like a positive move to me, so math became my new research project. Therefore, my DH and I have spent the last 6 months or so researching the higher level math options. We read through many websites and looked at some of the video options at our homeschool book fair. We reviewed & compared math books (via inter-library loan) written by Lial, Larson, Foerster, Brown (the newer Houghton Mifflin Algebra edition that started with Dolciani), Jacobs, and Jurgensen. In the end we decided to use the older Dolciani editions because they present a more logical and systematic approach to math. The books aren't flashy, and I haven't seen anything about calculator use yet, but they teach the basics thoroughly. I'm working through Chapter 2 right now in Modern Algebra, and I'm just amazed at what I didn't know, but I do now... ETA: Thanks to everyone for their encouraging & appreciative posts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Jane is our resident endorsee for the older Dolciani math books... 'Endorsee' is the polite term. Proselytizer is more like it! I wanted to address an issue that Beth brought up in her last post regarding calculators. When my son was studying Algebra I, he used the square root tables in his 1965 text. I told him that he could use the calculator if he wished. He said that it was faster and easier to use the tables. Shoulder shrug on that one. I did have him use a graphing calculator in Algebra I when he was determining solutions to simultaneous linear equations. I would have him enter the equations of the lines in the graphing calculator and use the trace function to determine the point of intersection. This was a good checking mechanism that allowed him to use and understand the basics of the graphing calculator. This past year, I allowed him to use the calculator instead of tables for logarithms and trig functions. Frankly, I hated interpolation as a high school student. Ugh. I wouldn't do that to my child with technology as it is. I still required that my son learn the trig values of the standard angles: pi/6, pi/4, pi/3, etc. I still required that he learn how to sketch equations like y = ln (x-1) and y = -2 sin (2x - pi/3) without a calculator. My standard rule is that the calculator is acceptable whenever one is doing a word problem--essentially a real world application. We don't go to the hardware store and ask for pi/2 feet of pipe. This is an acceptable use of approximation where the calculator is a good tool. That is my two cents. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccm Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I have also been on the lookout for Dolciani and found three teacher's editions at a used book store last weekend! We were up north in Ossipee, NH and there is a great used book shop there that I stop in and browse through most weekends during the summer. Last summer I found an old Thornton Burgess The Adventures of Chatterer the Red Squirrel (my daughter's favorite!) and a 1951 A Child's History of the World by V.M. Hillyer in wonderful condition. Well, last weekend I asked the owner about textbooks and she directed me to the lower level and said that she'd be down to help me find the textbook section. I found the section, scanned the titles, and and let out loud "I can't believe you have it!" There were three Dolciani teacher editions: Algebra 1 Structure and Method, Modern School Mathematics Algebra 1, and Modern School Mathematics 8. I also bought a "baby" Campbell Biology: Concepts and Connections. I was SO excited, but my family members just rolled their eyes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoplayer Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 We need Dolciani Algebra I for our son this year, and your research is incredibly helpful. This kind of information from someone who is a little further down the homeschooling "road" is immensely useful, so thanks ever so much! :) Reckon we could all pitch in and hire you as our central purchaser and distributor for all things Dolciani?:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoplayer Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 We need Dolciani Algebra I for our son this year, and your research is incredibly helpful. This kind of information from someone who is a little further down the homeschooling "road" is immensely useful, so thanks ever so much! :) Reckon we could all pitch in and hire you as our central purchaser and distributor for all things Dolciani?:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in Central TX Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Well, to be honest, I found the purchasing experience to be very frustrating at times. I had to wrestle with a couple of sellers for refunds for books that were listed as a TM, but they really were not, and I'm filing an "A to Z" Guarantee claim with Amazon.com on one order that was completely misrepresented. Overall I got some pretty good deals, and most of the sellers have been reasonable, so I'm not complaining at all. In addition, I really like the set of math books that I ended up with. However, I don't think I will volunteer to take on the role as the board distributor for the Dolciani books, but I would like to own a bookstore one day that would definitely include this series... I'm really not that far ahead of you in homeschooling, but I'm a long-term planner (on the obsessive end of the spectrum). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meredith Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Axioms, proofs, rigor. The old editions were published as part of a post-Sputnik reaction to step up the level of science and math education in this country. Dolciani was a mathematician; many newer math texts authors are penned by math educators. There is a difference in presentation of material. Jane is our resident endorsee for the older Dolciani math books, and I'll defer to her personal experience as the expert in this area. I first heard about these books on the old board, probably from Jane. Since I found Rod & Staff for our elementary math sequence, my goal had been to find a similar high school level math series (preferably from one author and/or publisher). This past year I found out the the math series I had chosen had decided to "revise" their books to make them "accessible to more students." That didn't sound like a positive move to me, so math became my new research project. Therefore, my DH and I have spent the last 6 months or so researching the higher level math options. We read through many websites and looked at some of the video options at our homeschool book fair. We reviewed & compared math books (via inter-library loan) written by Lial, Larson, Foerster, Brown (the newer Houghton Mifflin Algebra edition that started with Dolciani), Jacobs, and Jurgensen. In the end we decided to use the older Dolciani editions because they present a more logical and systematic approach to math. The books aren't flashy, and I haven't seen anything about calculator use yet, but they teach the basics thoroughly. I'm working through Chapter 2 right now in Modern Algebra, and I'm just amazed at what I didn't know, but I do now... Jane and Beth, thanks so much for your thoughts on this. Your advice and research is invaluable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 :thumbup: Thanks Beth and Jane. I'm still hunting for a TM for one of my older Algebra 1 txts. You've encouraged me to keep looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 They are so incredibly helpful to so many. Is it possible to have them all grouped somehow? Admin? Thanks Beth for taking the time to share your hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 When I am looking at Alibris, they have ISBN's for as early as some of the 1970 books - could the older ones have a number too? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in Central TX Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Hi Shelly, None of my 1960's Dolciani texts have an ISBN. The Solution Key for Modern Algebra Structure and Method Book One does have a number on the back cover: 2-14028. The Solution Key for Modern Algebra and Trigonometry Stucture and Method Book Two also has a number on the back cover: 2-14045. The other 2 Solution Keys do not have any numbers on the back cover. I've looked through the books with copyright dates from 1962 to 1965 and the distinguishing numbers above are the only ones I found. I know it's not much help, but if you find a book and have a question about it, please feel free to pm or e-mail me. ETA: Since I made my original post, I was able to find the 1965 edition of Modern Algebra & Trig Book 2 student text, teacher edition, and solution key. Take care, ~Beth Edited July 30, 2009 by Beth in Central TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zambo11 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Greetings, all! I just joined the forum today. My name is Bob Zambanini, Jr. I'm an energetic and nostalgic college professor who is trying to collect his high school text books. I think that I have them all except for a couple. The two main books that I'm missing are my high school trig book and my high school physics book. I have a belief that the trig book is one of Mary Dolciani's book, since we used her books in my Junior High algebra classes (and I have both of them, or at least one). Unfortunately, I do not know the title of the books (and my old teachers don't recall the titles). The Physics book was green and had a multi-colored hot-air balloon on the cover (1982-83 academic year). The trig book had the following characteristics: (1) it did not have the word "trigonometry" in the title; (2) it had various randomly shaped panels on the cover with different brownish/beige/maroon colors (similar to the 1964 edition on eBay right now, except that the 1964 book has blue colors); (3) it was by Houghton Mifflin (we think); and (4) we began the year (1981-82) in Chapter 6. Can anybody help me find these books? Incidentally, I said that I have "at least one" of the junior high algebra texts is because, while I have 2 of Dolciani's books entitled "Modern Algebra and Trigonometry - Structure and Method, Book 2", neither has the same plain green cover (almost a fluorescent green cover) that I used in ninth grade (1979-80). In fact, the algebra II book may not have even had the word "trigonometry" in the title. I DO, however, KNOW that I have my algebra I book, since my teacher sort of let me take it home in the summer of 1979. It's a deep yellow version of Dolciani's "Modern Algebra, Structure and Method, Book I," with the lower half of the cover containing a pattern that is actually memory chips of a computer. This book is copyrighted 1965 (I have a second version of this book, also copyrighted 1965, that has a similar cover except that it is red). Can anybody help me find my trig and physics books? Bob Zambanini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 is probably this one Algebra and Trigonometry Structure and Method book 2 c 1977, 1979 ISBN 0395266394 Teacher 0395266408 Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zambo11 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Thanks, Joan! Now if I can just find that first book . . . Bobby Z (in sunny, warm, SE PA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Bumping with the note that new poster Jerry Matrix has uploaded photos of the covers of Dolciani texts on his profile page in the photo section. In another thread he wrote Should I upload all the text books and delete the solution manuals or keep the solution manuals and be more selective on the text books. Maybe I should be more selective on both and use the additional space to give solutions to problems that people get stuck on that want to use the old books, but don't have a solution key. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Bumping with the note that new poster Jerry Matrix has uploaded photos of the covers of Dolciani texts on his profile page in the photo section. In another thread he wrote Those photos are so helpful!! Also, I tagged another thread yesterday with "Dolciani" because someone gave some more detail, that I thought was helpful, about the early Dolcianis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Bumping with the note that new poster Jerry Matrix has uploaded photos of the covers of Dolciani texts on his profile page in the photo section. In another thread he wrote Here they are http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/album.php?u=43448 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Here they arehttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/album.php?u=43448 It never occurred to me to link to Jerry's albums, stripe. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cave canem Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Axioms, proofs, rigor. The old editions were published as part of a post-Sputnik reaction to step up the level of science and math education in this country. Dolciani was a mathematician; many newer math texts authors are penned by math educators. There is a difference in presentation of material. Is there a publication year after which the Dolciani books are markedly "worse" than earlier editions? Does the content decline gradually over the years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Is there a publication year after which the Dolciani books are markedly "worse" than earlier editions? Does the content decline gradually over the years? In general I stuck to books from the '60's and '70's. For Algebra I, I did compare a '60's text with an early '80's. The latter introduced BASIC programming. Of course, by adding something, something else had to go. That proved to be some of the challenging questions toward the end of the homework problems. Note that some people prefer the '80's book. New WTM member Jerry Matrix owns all or almost all of these books in their various editions. He might want to weigh in or you might want to ask him specific questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 These editions sound wonderful. I want to start collecting and using them. I live in the UK so I suspect I will have a harder time finding them. Yes, I realize companies in the US ship but it is always easier when they advertise on amazon UK first. Do the student texts have answers to the odds in the back? Or some similar check? That way my dcs can enjoy the texts while waiting for the teachers guides to become available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam L in Mid Tenn Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I gave up using a Dolicani Algebra 2 from the early 80s because I could not find a teacher's book with answers. Thank you for a great post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 If there are no answers in the books I will hunt for teacher editions first! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Here they arehttp://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/album.php?u=43448 nb our 1965 Doliciani Structure & Methods 1 was recovered, so while it's authentic, it does look different. I so like this resource posted here :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David-L Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 A rare teacher edition (MODERN ALGEBRA AND TRIGONOMETRY, STRUCTURE AND METHOD, 1963) has appeared on abebooks for 20.00 in very good condition. http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=7197188285&searchurl=an%3Ddolciani%26bi%3D0%26bx%3Don%26ds%3D30%26recentlyadded%3Dall%26sortby%3D17%26sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dteachers%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26yrh%3D1965%26yrl%3D1960 I'm not the seller and have no connection. I would just like someone here to get it (I already own a copy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yvonned Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I am looking for these books if anyone has them for sale :) Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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