lindsey Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I think we need to move away from BA next year. I've already bought 3D, so we'll finish out the year. It feels too...abstract? at times. I don't know how to explain it. My son is good with numbers, solves stuff in his head I'd need a calculator for, and loves logic puzzles and such...but isn't as into the difficult puzzle-type problem solving as I thought. We both wind up confused and annoyed a lot. I think I would prefer more of a teaching script. I always thought I'd like Saxon, but I don't really remember why (has been years since I looked into it). :P I've also considered Math Mammoth (I bought some third grade thing to supplement but it doesn't seem complete). What might we like? I feel so overwhelmed all over again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 You might consider CLE math (give the Diagnostic test for placement) but run Beast on the side at a slower pace. A lot of people find BA doesn't work for them as a stand alone but is great as a supplement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 If you need free to finish a year, I like How to Tutor, Ray's Arithmetic, and Newspapers in Education. How to Tutor http://blumenfeld.campconstitution.net Ray's is pretty much everywhere. Newspapers in Education http://www.nieteacher.org/#elmsmulti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Rod and Staff Publishers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) Math Mammoth is very complete. You probably got a single topic book? The full year program is definitely very comprehensive. It does not, however, have a script. He's good at math so I personally wouldn't do CLE. Saxon would be a complete about face - I know you're saying he doesn't like the puzzles and so forth as much as you expected, but that's really the polar opposite of Beast. I wouldn't do that. But then again, I'm not much of a Saxon fan - it's dry and repetitive and not as conceptually focused. Since you want a script, I'd say Singapore Primary Math with the Home Instructor's Guides would be a good option. Calvert now also makes a homeschool guide for Math in Focus, which is another Singapore style math program, but usually used in public schools. Also, it's different, but MEP has a script and is very good - it's made for use in the UK, but many homeschoolers use it and it's free as a pdf. ETA: The ultimate scripted math program, IMO, is Right Start, but I wouldn't start it at this point. It's too different. Edited February 2, 2017 by Farrar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I have used Math in Focus with my son since 1A, but last spring we tried BA 3A. I just don't "get" how it can be both too hard and too easy for my son at the same time. It's like they take a grade-level concept and then turn it into convoluted puzzles that take 20 minutes to solve - my son doesn't have the attention span nor the frustration tolerance for that. I'm thinking particularly of the skip counting chapter (which is essentially systems of equations) and the area/perimeter problems. He just wasn't interested in investing the time and highlighers into solving the problems, so I ended up pulling him through it. I went back to MIF, and he has done 4A, 4B, 5A, and half of 5B in the past year. And actually, the concepts we covered in Beast Academy 3A went into a black hole somehow, because he didn't remember doing them when we reviewed them with MIF (and generally his retention is excellent). So I don't think that, for him, using math to solve puzzles is a great way to reinforce the math. It's like he got stuck on the puzzle-solving aspect and the math was just a distraction. If we had stuck with BA, I think we would still be working on the grade 3 stuff, getting sidetracked on the discipline of solving puzzles instead of moving forward on math concepts. My son likes math, is great at math, but is not a good fit for BA. So let me sing the praises of Math in Focus. It offers amazing scaffolding for difficult concepts, breaks things down into small pieces and clearly shows WHY things work, has excellent word problems, and is just super solid. After finishing 5A, my son took the NWEA MAP test and scored crazy high (above the average for high school seniors). I'm not saying that's the ultimate validation, but it shows that it is a solid program. I do supplement with Math Minutes for mixed review, and add in extra word problems at times. It is really easy to move through at your kid's pace - slow down and use the scaffolding and all the textbook examples when the kid is confused, but jump ahead and test out of lessons when the kid totally gets it. You can sign up with HMH to preview the program and get access to all of the worksheets - reteach, extra practice, enrichment, assessments, etc. It is way more flexible than Saxon, which pretty much ties you to their pacing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Another scripted program you could look at is MEP. It is at cimt.org.uk The program is well-regarded and complete and free for the printing. It is tricky to understand until you print a lesson book and the matching lesson plans, and then walk yourself through a few lessons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsey Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Thank you everyone--I got swamped and just now looked at this. I am afraid not much is 'sticking' for mine, either...some of the stranger problems are such a distraction for him. We are dealing with untreated ADHD, which may contribute...but still. Frustrating. I'm going to search old posts for all of these!! Thanks again. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Check out RightStart while you're researching. It's scripted and has a great emphasis on number sense and mental math. My son likely has ADHD as well and he loves the games and hands-on nature of it. It's our main math curriculum, and BA is fun side program, but my son is 7 so I'm not pushing BA hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamamoose Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Right start is a great program but I think I like it best in the younger grades (k-2). The manipulatives aren't used as much in the later levels, and the games take a long time some days. We are switching over to math mammoth in 3rd and using beast academy because he loves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Thank you everyone--I got swamped and just now looked at this. I am afraid not much is 'sticking' for mine, either...some of the stranger problems are such a distraction for him. We are dealing with untreated ADHD, which may contribute...but still. Frustrating. I'm going to search old posts for all of these!! Thanks again. :) My 7 year old has ADD (and ASD), and when we finally found the correct treatment, it was like night and day. He's a really mathy kid, but before he was medicated he just struggled with the focus and perseverance required. He was a fidgety, distractible mess after a couple practice problems, and there was no way he could maintain focus long enough to work through more complex problems that required him to sit and think. Now that his ADD is largely under control, he is thriving on a combination of Math Mammoth and Beast Academy (and Singapore Challenging Word Problems). I think if you were to look at Math Mammoth's light blue series (they offer generous sample downloads), you will find that it is a very complete curriculum. In fact, at times it can seem too complete, with too many incremental, baby steps for our intuitive, mathy kids. By no means does DS do all of the problems in all of the sections of MM, but I have found it easy to customize (for both my mathy oldest son, and my needs-more-practice second son). Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Fourth grade and up I used Singapore with the home instructor guide that I see Farrar recomended. It was really great here. Only stopped using Singapore when those guides were no longer available. I agree Math Mammouth is good, if anything, too many problems available so I'd feel free to cull it. Also love MEP. Edited February 3, 2017 by madteaparty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsey Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 My 7 year old has ADD (and ASD), and when we finally found the correct treatment, it was like night and day. He's a really mathy kid, but before he was medicated he just struggled with the focus and perseverance required. He was a fidgety, distractible mess after a couple practice problems, and there was no way he could maintain focus long enough to work through more complex problems that required him to sit and think. Now that his ADD is largely under control, he is thriving on a combination of Math Mammoth and Beast Academy (and Singapore Challenging Word Problems). I think if you were to look at Math Mammoth's light blue series (they offer generous sample downloads), you will find that it is a very complete curriculum. In fact, at times it can seem too complete, with too many incremental, baby steps for our intuitive, mathy kids. By no means does DS do all of the problems in all of the sections of MM, but I have found it easy to customize (for both my mathy oldest son, and my needs-more-practice second son). Wendy That's great to hear--we just picked up our first go at meds today. Anxious but also so ready for some help in that department. :) Looking at MM again--MIF is super expensive for us right now, although I had some luck searching used. Will it be too different in technique and such? For both if us to get used to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsey Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 Oh and MEP I looked at months ago when first looking into curriculums, free IS very attractive. :P Maybe this summer I will use it to review 3rd grade and keep things fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Math in Focus can actually be very affordable. I bought the textbooks used on Amazon and the workbooks through Rainbow Resource. I have had a few of the TMs, but never use them. The textbook breaks everything down and has multiple activities to practice things - now, with Singapore's Primary Math, you would need to buy both the Home Instructor's Guide and the textbook to get the same content, as the PM textbook is more like guided practice. MIF is way more streamlined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsey Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Math in Focus can actually be very affordable. I bought the textbooks used on Amazon and the workbooks through Rainbow Resource. I have had a few of the TMs, but never use them. The textbook breaks everything down and has multiple activities to practice things - now, with Singapore's Primary Math, you would need to buy both the Home Instructor's Guide and the textbook to get the same content, as the PM textbook is more like guided practice. MIF is way more streamlined. Thank you for chiming in with that--I found the teacher manual on Amazon for $35 or so which was MUCH better than the $116 at RR. Maybe I will try text and workbooks and if I think I'll need more help, go for the TM! I'm not terrible at math, but I'm not...a good math teacher, lol. ::shuffle:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Math in Focus can actually be very affordable. I bought the textbooks used on Amazon and the workbooks through Rainbow Resource. I have had a few of the TMs, but never use them. The textbook breaks everything down and has multiple activities to practice things - now, with Singapore's Primary Math, you would need to buy both the Home Instructor's Guide and the textbook to get the same content, as the PM textbook is more like guided practice. MIF is way more streamlined. I agree with this, but... I think it depends on what you want. With MiF, everything is streamlined. But with Primary Math, some people find the multiple book options (textbook, workbook, intensive practice for hard problems, challenging word problems for extra word problems, and extra practice for more simple practice) to make it more flexible for the needs of different students. Just depends... One of my boys used MiF for awhile and it's good but it didn't end up suiting him and he finished elementary math with MEP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I agree with this, but... I think it depends on what you want. With MiF, everything is streamlined. But with Primary Math, some people find the multiple book options (textbook, workbook, intensive practice for hard problems, challenging word problems for extra word problems, and extra practice for more simple practice) to make it more flexible for the needs of different students. Just depends... One of my boys used MiF for awhile and it's good but it didn't end up suiting him and he finished elementary math with MEP. Your point doesn't contradict mine at all - you can still do all that supplementing with MIF. You can buy the extra practice workbook, assessments, various supplemental word problem books, etc. I believe fewer people would need to supplement, as MIF has a lot more included in just the text & wb than PM does, for sure. There are a large number of word problems in MIF - especially in grades 4+ as there are lessons that focus entirely on word problems at the end of most chapters. There are more challenging problems in the MIF workbook than in the PM one (especially the "put on your thinking cap" type). We have never run out of problems to do before a concept is solid, but if we did, MIF extra practice is the perfect fit for that (and actually I think it might be a bit harder than the workbook; not sure as we haven't used it yet). MIF also goes all the way through pre-algebra, which is where PM starts to really diverge from the American sequence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Your point doesn't contradict mine at all - you can still do all that supplementing with MIF. You can buy the extra practice workbook, assessments, various supplemental word problem books, etc. I believe fewer people would need to supplement, as MIF has a lot more included in just the text & wb than PM does, for sure. There are a large number of word problems in MIF - especially in grades 4+ as there are lessons that focus entirely on word problems at the end of most chapters. There are more challenging problems in the MIF workbook than in the PM one (especially the "put on your thinking cap" type). We have never run out of problems to do before a concept is solid, but if we did, MIF extra practice is the perfect fit for that (and actually I think it might be a bit harder than the workbook; not sure as we haven't used it yet). MIF also goes all the way through pre-algebra, which is where PM starts to really diverge from the American sequence. Sorry, didn't mean to imply that it did. Just trying to add information. I don't think either is better, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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