phonograms and the words "about" and "around"

[mom2three]

If you teach phonograms, can you tell me how to explain the "a" in about and around? Is "a" saying the third sound? Is it saying something else? Is there a rule to explain this?

 

 

TIA

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I believe the initial a in both words is pronounced as a schwa.  

 

The schwa is the vowel sound in many lightly pronounced unaccented syllables in words of more than one syllable. It is sometimes signified by the pronunciation "uh" or symbolized by an upside-down rotated e. A schwa sound can be represented by any vowel.

Schwa

englishplus.com/grammar/00000383.htm

 

I would suggest using the "say to spell" technique- I think I read about this in Logic of English.  Basically, teach the kid to say: "A bout" where that first A is a long A sound, then write it.  Schwas are tricky.  

 

 

[Ellie]

If you teach phonograms, can you tell me how to explain the "a" in about and around? Is "a" saying the third sound? Is it saying something else? Is there a rule to explain this?

 

 

TIA

 

Spalding tells us that we think to spell; so yes, you say A-bout and A-round. Rule 4 says that "a" says its name at the end of a short word or syllable (which includes a syllable that is only the "a"). Saying A-bout and A-round during the spelling lesson helps the children remember that it is about and not uhbout, if you see what I mean. Spalding does not use the schwa as it can result in incorrect spelling.

[Momto6inIN]

I tell my kids that some words needs to be pronounced very properly - as if they were a child in a 19th century English boarding school - in order to spell them correctly. And then we pretend to be Lucy from the Narnia books and speak with horrible British accents and that seems to help. 😆

 

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[Kiara.I]

If you teach phonograms, can you tell me how to explain the "a" in about and around? Is "a" saying the third sound? Is it saying something else? Is there a rule to explain this?

 

 

TIA

It sounds closer to the third sound (like the a in father, right?) than any of the others, but yes, it's a schwa.

 

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[Tanaqui]

In English, when we have an unstressed syllable, we "reduce" the vowel. (Technical term.) The resulting sound is called a schwa. (In some dialects, we also have a schwi. For example, to me, the word "Rosa's" has a schwa, but "roses" has a scwhi. None of this is relevant, I just like writing the word schwi.)

 

Our orthography is not set up to handle the schwa (or schwi), so any vowel can be subbed in when writing. This is frustrating when learning to spell, but there's just no way around it.

[Ellie]

In English, when we have an unstressed syllable, we "reduce" the vowel. (Technical term.) The resulting sound is called a schwa. (In some dialects, we also have a schwi. For example, to me, the word "Rosa's" has a schwa, but "roses" has a scwhi. None of this is relevant, I just like writing the word schwi.)

 

Our orthography is not set up to handle the schwa (or schwi), so any vowel can be subbed in when writing. This is frustrating when learning to spell, but there's just no way around it.

 

Unless you use a method like Spalding, which does not teach schwas but teaches the correct sounds. It is why we say "A-bout" when we're teaching that word. It is Rule 4, by the way: A, e, o, and u (and sometimes y) will say their second (or long) sounds at the end of a short word or syllable, including a syllable where it is the only letter in the syllable. A-way. A-round. A-bout. We explain that when we are speaking, sometimes those letters get sort of mushed around such that they don't say their second sounds; the children have no trouble understanding this.

[MistyMountain]

The school my kids go to modified Spalding to use the schwa sound for a. They learned four sounds for a. Spalding was good for one kid but not the other but even my weak speller does not have difficulty spelling words with scwha with that modification.

Edited January 6, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Tanaqui]

Ellie, we've had this conversation. What you are saying is false. The schwa IS the correct sound in unstressed English syllables. I do not think it is good to spread falsehoods and lies.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Tanaqui

[Ellie]

Ellie, we've had this conversation. What you are saying is false. The schwa IS the correct sound in unstressed English syllables. I do not think it is good to spread falsehoods and lies.

 

I don't think it's good to accuse me of spreading falsehoods and lies. Goodness. I guess we'll just throw Romalda Spalding and her many followers under the bus.

[maize]

Unless you use a method like Spalding, which does not teach schwas but teaches the correct sounds. It is why we say "A-bout" when we're teaching that word. It is Rule 4, by the way: A, e, o, and u (and sometimes y) will say their second (or long) sounds at the end of a short word or syllable, including a syllable where it is the only letter in the syllable. A-way. A-round. A-bout. We explain that when we are speaking, sometimes those letters get sort of mushed around such that they don't say their second sounds; the children have no trouble understanding this.

I can see this as a decent way to help kids with spelling but calling it "correct" as if this artificial way of saying the word is right and the way(s) the word is actually spoken by native speakers is wrong is just silly and 100% linguistically incorrect.

[Tanaqui]

I don't think it's good to accuse me of spreading falsehoods and lies. Goodness. I guess we'll just throw Romalda Spalding and her many followers under the bus.

 

Well, I don't know another word for saying something that is obviously untrue, even after you have been shown repeatedly that it isn't true.

 

I guess we'll just throw Romalda Spalding and her many followers under the bus.

 

Or we can acknowledge that you can be an intelligent and well-educated person and still fall prey to common misconceptions, like the patently absurd idea that the way 100% of native speakers say words is "wrong". We can accept that the way things were done in the past is not necessarily the 100% perfect way things should be done in the future. We can then find another way to explain the concept that doesn't require us to mislead children.

 

Like, I don't know - "I know, when we speak we don't say the word with any of those sounds. We use another sound, /É™/. Our writing system isn't perfect, and this sound, /É™/, can be written with any vowel. When we spell, it's helpful to say it like this (demonstrate) so we can remember which vowel to use."

 

(With older kids who understand the concept of syllables and stress, you could then say exactly what I said upthread, which is that we automatically reduce vowels in unstressed syllables and this is the correct way to speak English. Interestingly, my children understood that explanation very easily when I said this. I didn't have to "dumb it down" or say something untrue. I don't think they're smarter than your kids, or anybody else's, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they've just been hiding their brilliance from me.)

Edited January 7, 2017 by Tanaqui

[MerryAtHope]

If you teach phonograms, can you tell me how to explain the "a" in about and around? Is "a" saying the third sound? Is it saying something else? Is there a rule to explain this?

 

 

TIA

 

As others have said, it's a schwa sound. If you are using All About Reading or All About Spelling, this will be covered. Here's an article about schwa sounds. HTH!

[ReadingMama1214]

We're using Ordinary Parents Guide to Teaching Reading and it does teach the Schwa. However, we aren't to that lesson yet. But I have taught Dd to sound it out saying A-bout to help her figure it out. But, she has self corrected and no pronounces it as About as we normally say it in everyday speech.