Question re DE and brick and mortar high school...

[madteaparty]

Hello, I'm thinking ahead. DS is going to high school and we've moved into a certain district for that reason. This school in addition to many APs, has a formal agreement with a local Public uni (15 min or so from school) for many classes not offered at the high school (higher math, languages, anything). The cost for credit is very favorable. In fact, on paper they have a similar agreement with a number of public Unis, some at a bit of a drive. I have no idea how many kids take advantage of offerings, but I know AP classes aren't oversubscribed (and thus reserved for juniors and seniors) like they are at high schools in the city.

There's another private college that has their own "college in high school program". The high school does not arrange this but it seems they'll accept the credits. This is 30 min away from high school.

What I wonder, assuming all hoops are jumped and child has access to all these amazing classes (esp at the private, liberal arts college â¤ï¸) is how this works logistically. I haven't been to high school in this country and DH brought to my attention that there may be a scheduling issue, meaning if DS takes, say a 9am class MWF at the college, this might make him miss two high school classes depending when bell is. (Won't be back until 1030 ish)

Is there some buffer in the schedule at all?

Anyone with a kid in this scenario? Many thanks.

[Melissa B]

Around here most public school students use the community college which is more accommodating. Those that choose the university generally have two options. They can register for college classes that fall before or after the normal school hours or they can go to the high school half-day and the university half-day and make up any missing credits needed for graduation using the state-wide virtual school program. In other areas I have heard that high school students can take university classes online. Our local university does not allow this option.

[MinivanMom]

Our magnet high school allows students to take classes at the university during the day. They're close enough physically for this to work. Our suburban high schools require students to work their university classes around the normal school hours (7:20-2:20), but the principal can authorize a shortened high school schedule where the student is able to come in late after a university morning class or leave early for an afternoon class. I've known kids who had as few as 2 high school classes scheduled during their senior year which gives you a lot of leeway in scheduling.

 

But I think the logistics of DE can be very unique to the individual high school or school district in question. You really need to go visit the high school you're considering and ask questions about how they implement DE and what their policies are for taking university classes during the regular school day. Could you set up a tour of the school or a time to meet with the counselor? That would give you the opportunity to ask more questions.

[madteaparty]

Our magnet high school allows students to take classes at the university during the day. They're close enough physically for this to work. Our suburban high schools require students to work their university classes around the normal school hours (7:20-2:20), but the principal can authorize a shortened high school schedule where the student is able to come in late after a university morning class or leave early for an afternoon class. I've known kids who had as few as 2 high school classes scheduled during their senior year which gives you a lot of leeway in scheduling.

 

But I think the logistics of DE can be very unique to the individual high school or school district in question. You really need to go visit the high school you're considering and ask questions about how they implement DE and what their policies are for taking university classes during the regular school day. Could you set up a tour of the school or a time to meet with the counselor? That would give you the opportunity to ask more questions.

Yes i really need to chat with them but don't want to seem like "that mom" since DS is in 7th grade. I'm also waiting for successful completion of his current "DE" class and maybe a standardized test score so hopefully I have something to talk about versus "who the hell are you and why isn't your kid good enough for our offerings ;)).

[Susie in CA]

Yes, scheduling can be an issue. We are with a charter school in California and do work very hard to get a schedule that works; not always easy.

 

Ds 1:

He takes 3 classes at the highschool (AP Gov, Drama, English). He is done at the highschool at 11:30. Then heads over to the community college for Math which starts at 12:30 (Tuesday and Thursday). The other days he just leaves school and goes home to work on homework. He also takes AP German online.

Honestly, he loves being done at the highschool at 11:30.

 

Ds 2:

Is with the same charter school, but switched to their independent study program. This year he is taking Math Online with the school, Photoshop through the community college, and everything else independent study.

 

This year is going very well, actually. Both the boys are mature enough to handle a varied schedule like this.

 

[HomeAgain]

It might be an issue, it might not.  For a lot of the DE classes my son takes, the teacher is brought on to the high school campus instead of the students all traveling.

[Arcadia]

My district partnership is with the community college. Parents do the chauffeuring between campus and the scheduling issue is discussed with the guidance counselor. The guidance counselor signs off on the dual enrollment form which the child brings to community college. Our DE is for what the high school doesn't have an equivalent. So they won't pay for Chinese, German, Latin, Arabic but would pay for Spanish or Japanese above AP level. They don't do DE with a university so the parents pay full price and so far no one I know in district public high school has exceeded community college offerings.

The district also has an early middle college program which is run differently. It is supposedly 3 high school, 3 college class per semester. The website for that program is being updated for my district so can't get more details without emailing. A friend's child is in a similar early middle college program and her high school classes are at the community college.

 

If you apply now to high school, they may just offer you to skip 8th grade. The private high schools here will speak with middle school kids. They will ask for the kid to interview. The public high school staff are nice but they will direct 7th graders to district office and 8th graders to the assigned high school counselors. The parent is out of the picture though for course selection since parental consent is not required.

[madteaparty]

My district partnership is with the community college. Parents do the chauffeuring between campus and the scheduling issue is discussed with the guidance counselor. The guidance counselor signs off on the dual enrollment form which the child brings to community college. Our DE is for what the high school doesn't have an equivalent. So they won't pay for Chinese, German, Latin, Arabic but would pay for Spanish or Japanese above AP level. They don't do DE with a university so the parents pay full price and so far no one I know in district public high school has exceeded community college offerings.

[...]

If you apply now to high school, they may just offer you to skip 8th grade. The private high schools here will speak with middle school kids. They will ask for the kid to interview. The public high school staff are nice but they will direct 7th graders to district office and 8th graders to the assigned high school counselors. The parent is out of the picture though for course selection since parental consent is not required.

 

Hi, our district's arrangement with the local public uni seems exactly like the first one you mention. They include the arrangement and classes in their high school brochure and pay for classes which they don't offer. When I contacted this uni because I wanted DS to take a class there, they told me kids go through their high school in order to have that pricing (if you pay full price you can do whatever you want as an unmatriculated student).

 

But most classes DS would be interested in are not at the public uni but at the private college, which is one district over. The school has heard ;) of that program but they don;t facilitate. I know I need to speak to both. I know I'd be doing the driving, that's not the issue there.

I don't think I want him to go to high school in 8th. He's not that gifted for one and for another, I still hope to take a "gap year" and travel for 6 months. And doing another exchange, maybe.

[Roadrunner]

Are they classes the school will require and will prevent him from taking DE? For example. Our district will require you to take English 9 and 10 and will tell you to do honors if your child is advanced before letting you into any AP class, which in turn will be needed to get them to approve DE in any lit outside of high school. It seems that this is the pattern with many subjects here, which effectively prevents you from doing DE for anything other than electives and foreign languages (assuming you have AP grade) for much of the high school. I would triple check on that.

[Arcadia]

I don't think I want him to go to high school in 8th

I told my district I am not interested in skipping 8th and so they are not interested in talking about high school DE to me especially when they have overcrowding issues from K to 12th. It is cheaper for them if my kid grade skip though than for them to pay for more DE. Private schools sees us as potential clients and are more willing to talk.

 

California is just like New York in the sense that the school districts all have different bureaucratic tendencies.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Arcadia

[madteaparty]

Are they classes the school will require and will prevent him from taking DE? For example. Our district will require you to take English 9 and 10 and will tell you to do honors if your child is advanced before letting you into any AP class, which in turn will be needed to get them to approve DE in any lit outside of high school. It seems that this is the pattern with many subjects here, which effectively prevents you from doing DE for anything other than electives and foreign languages (assuming you have AP grade) for much of the high school. I would triple check on that.

Well, that's how it was at that school I mentioned we visited in the city. After talking to parents, it became clear that even though the school administers their own placement test for math and English but that meant nothing in practice because even if a kid places ready for (say)AP English, that class is reserved for juniors and seniors and is therefore full. Same for languages, "pick another one" is what they told me.

Anyway at this current district they tell me so long as he places in a class, there is room. Their APs don't fill out. Now what "placing" in something means might be subject to interpretation so that's where I'd love to have some documentation before I speak to them. I don't think Potter's class French lit will move anyone but maybe a good ACT score (I'm assuming a lot here as you see ;), and a regents in algebra, and maybe a good grade (see assumption) in local college class might persuade them to at least consider...I feel like we have been doing "English 101" since 5th grade here...

Edited October 4, 2016 by madteaparty

[Arcadia]

. Now what "placing" in something means might be subject to interpretation so that's where I'd love to have some documentation before I speak to them. I don't think Potter's class French lit will move anyone but maybe a good ACT score (I'm assuming a lot here as you see ;), and a regents in algebra, and maybe a good grade (see assumption) in local college class might persuade them to at least consider...I feel like we have been doing "English 101" since 5th grade here...

 

This is copied from the NY College Now page. Your son can easily make it.

"Each campus College Now program considers Regents scores, SAT, and/or GPA (grade point average) to decide eligibility for enrollment in a course for college credit.

Most CUNY colleges expect you to met at least one of the benchmarks* indicated in the table below. Please note: some colleges may require even higher scores and/or sitting for a placement exam.

• For a math class or class with math prerequisite:
  • 80 or better on any one of the new Regents Examinations (Integrated Algebra, Geometry, or Algebra 2 & Trigonometry) AND successfully completing Algebra 2 & Trigonometry or a higher-level course
  • 500 or better on SAT math section
  • ACT Math score of 21 or higher

• For all other classes:

   

  • 75 or better on English Language Arts (ELA) Regents
  • 480 or better on SAT verbal section
  • ACT English score of 20 or higher"

 

You can google the school handbook for world language placement requirements. I copied from Stuyvesant since they have it on their webpage.

"Students who studied a language in middle school and wish to continue studying it will be scheduled to take the Stuyvesant Language Placement exam in June. Students who passed the proficiency test in middle school still need to take the placement exam.

 

• Placement is based on availability, performance and programming restrictions.​"

Stuyvesant has writing exemplars as well

http://stuy.enschool.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?dir=/&termREC_ID=&type=d&pREC_ID=378461&uREC_ID=187091

 

ETA:

My local high school handbook says grades of B and above in prior course for placement into AP. Don't know how they are going to covert SAT scores into AP class eligibility if we go the take SAT subject test first route..

Edited October 4, 2016 by Arcadia

[madteaparty]

This is copied from the NY College Now page. Your son can easily make it.

"Each campus College Now program considers Regents scores, SAT, and/or GPA (grade point average) to decide eligibility for enrollment in a course for college credit.

Most CUNY colleges expect you to met at least one of the benchmarks* indicated in the table below. Please note: some colleges may require even higher scores and/or sitting for a placement exam.

• For a math class or class with math prerequisite:
• 80 or better on any one of the new Regents Examinations (Integrated Algebra, Geometry, or Algebra 2 & Trigonometry) AND successfully completing Algebra 2 & Trigonometry or a higher-level course
• 500 or better on SAT math section
• ACT Math score of 21 or higher

• For all other classes:
• 75 or better on English Language Arts (ELA) Regents
• 480 or better on SAT verbal section
• ACT English score of 20 or higher"

You can google the school handbook for world language placement requirements. I copied from Stuyvesant since they have it on their webpage.

"Students who studied a language in middle school and wish to continue studying it will be scheduled to take the Stuyvesant Language Placement exam in June. Students who passed the proficiency test in middle school still need to take the placement exam.

• Placement is based on availability, performance and programming restrictions.​"

Stuyvesant has writing exemplars as well

http://stuy.enschool.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?dir=/&termREC_ID=&type=d&pREC_ID=378461&uREC_ID=187091

 

ETA:

My local high school handbook says grades of B and above in prior course for placement into AP. Don't know how they are going to covert SAT scores into AP class eligibility if we go the take SAT subject test first route..

Ha, Stuy is the school I mentioned where they literally told me "pick another language". As in, even if I arranged with (say) NYU for him to take Arabic there, the DOE would not permit such a thing. And current parents told me it's all STEM all the time and placement means nothing as they are worried about their juniors and seniors in APs. Needless to say, for this and many reasons, Stuyvesant is not the school for my kid and we are not moving back to the city ;) (it seems presumptuous on my part that he would have scored high enough to get in, but you know what I mean). Edited October 4, 2016 by madteaparty

[Arcadia]

Ha, Stuy is the school I mentioned where they literally told me "pick another language". As in, even if I arranged with (say) NYU for him to take Arabic there, the DOE would not permit such a thing.

 

My district is the same way and they only offer Spanish and French for one high school, Spanish and Japanese for the other high school. Any other language is on your own dime after school hours but kid would still need to do a world language during school hours unless the world language requirement is already met by SAT/AP exam.

[vonfirmath]

When I was in HS, there was an agreement to work with the local state university for kids to take classes. One of the reasons I did not participate (despite running out of math and having no math my senior year) was logistics. I could not figure out how to get over there to take a class, then back to school for marching band practice/after school activities, Minimum, I would have needed to miss two classes in HS if I took something that happened to have times in the afternoon. But afterschool activities would still have been a problem.

 

[Guest]

There are score correlations between SAT or PSAT and success in AP. Its the only reason my older was allowed to take AP English without taking Honors English in gr7 thru 11.

 

The logistics are up to you to work out. Our gc advised the kid to take a half day at the cc as a jr, and the whole day as a senior. He was still compelled as a senior and couldnt drive solo first semester, so I would have had to supply a chauffeur for three semesters as they would not provide transport even though there were empty seats on a route that went to an out of district placement two blocks away from the cc....45 min drive with no traffic, each way. Instead we went for 2 online classes, and it was difficult due to the high school schedule changes for weather, special events, and for regents week, plus the wacky reading workload from one of the high school teachers (kid learned to ask in advance). Also, compare AP Exam days vs college exams in spring semester, and also against ec calendar. Final problem was that some DE providers had an attendance reqt...so ds had to keep track of his ecs and not miss too many class days.

 

Ask what class size is for AP.

Keep in mind the length of tne day.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[happypamama]

We used to just work it out. We took our classes at a campus of a big university that often catered to people taking alternative career paths, so there were a lot of night classes. Many of my English and political science classes were from 7-10 pm half an hour from home. Often the history and math classes were split between two days, and I'd come in late to the high school or leave early. I only had science (and gym one semester) at the high school by my 11th and 12th grade year, so it wasn't a big deal to miss study hall or one of the (many) periods I spent assisting teachers or tutoring ESL students. I don't remember anyone ever complaining, but then again, my dad taught at our high school, and since I was a good student who made the school look good, nobody gave me grief.

 

I do recall being very tired though. It was pretty common for me to be at the high school at 7:30 am, leave for class at 2:00, come back at 4:15 for activities, go home for dinner, leave for class at 6:15, get home at 10:30, shower and get ready for school the next day, and get up at 6:45 for school the next day. I don't know how I survived those two years, but I did. Real college was a piece of cake after that lol.