What do you think of this teen changing name to Cutout Dissection.com ?

[Beth in SW WA]

What is the consensus here regarding animal dissections in high school? Thanks!!

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/14/cutout.dissection.ap/index.html

[Plaid Dad]

I think the name change is silly - and, one hopes, temporary. Although I'm no fan of factory farming and the like, I have no respect for PETA's stunts. To me, this is just one more of their ridiculous tactics. To my mind, they do more harm than good to their own cause.

 

I don't know what's being dissected these days in schools, but when I took biology the animals we dissected were ones that at least some people eat: frog, fish, pig. Oh, and a worm. (I don't think any of us ate worms.) I was a vegetarian at the time, but I was nonplussed by the labs. I'm sure it's traumatic for some people, and I'm not opposed to using videos to show the process. But I'd want to know how important college-level biology teachers think dissection is before jettisoning it altogether from the high school curriculum - particularly based on a PETA protest.

[Gwen in VA]

We don't do animal dissections -- but we don't do ANY bio labs at all, so we cut up neither animals nor plants! :001_smile:

 

One of the limits I put on homeschooling was bio labs. I do high school, but I don't do bio labs! :001_smile:

[readwithem]

THAT is really strange. I'm surprised her parents let her do that. Of course this is what's on my mind these days - but I wonder what college admissions committee people would thing of her name :lol:

 

We did all our dissections at a nearby museum with other homeschoolers, as I recall we did a worm, a heart, a fish, an eyeball, a brain, a lung.... several plants.... I'm sure there were others but that's what I remember :)

[Heather in VA]

Kind of reminds me of when Prince changed his name to that symbol - sorry my keyboard doesn't make that sign LOL. It was supposed to be do deep and meaningful, but in reality it was just dumb and pointless.

 

Heather

 

PS - yes we do dissections - and I have to wonder if these people who are so opposed to it will be willing to forgo any medical treatment that was developed with information learned from dissecting animals and cadavers - oh that's right - they don't care if you cut up people.

[Heather in VA]

We don't do animal dissections -- but we don't do ANY bio labs at all, so we cut up neither animals nor plants! :001_smile:

 

One of the limits I put on homeschooling was bio labs. I do high school, but I don't do bio labs! :001_smile:

 

She's 19. The parents don't have to approve.

 

Heather

[Jenny in Florida]

Kind of reminds me of when Prince changed his name to that symbol - sorry my keyboard doesn't make that sign LOL. It was supposed to be do deep and meaningful, but in reality it was just dumb and pointless.

 

Heather

 

PS - yes we do dissections - and I have to wonder if these people who are so opposed to it will be willing to forgo any medical treatment that was developed with information learned from dissecting animals and cadavers - oh that's right - they don't care if you cut up people.

 

Okay, I'm not a Prince fan, but as I recall, he changed his name (temporarily) in part as a protest against what he felt was unfair treatment by his then record label. (I'm fuzzy on the details, but I seem to recall . . .)

 

As for your second point: We don't do dissections here. In fact, my daughter just went a couple of rounds on this topic with her bio lab instructor. She won.

 

The reality is that there are now many, many alternatives to dissection. So many, in fact, that a number of countries have banned it or passes laws to ensure that students may choose not to participate without penalty. Right here in the U.S., at least 11 states have passed "student choice" legislation.

 

In fact, there is some question as to whether dissection is even the best way to learn this kind of information. The Humane Society of the United States (which definitely has an agenda, but isn't a "fringe group" like PETA) has compiled a list of studies that support dissection alternatives as being at least as effective--and perhaps more so--than dissection.

 

http://www.hsus.org/animals_in_research/animals_in_education/comparative_studies_of_dissection_and_other_animal_uses.html

 

Frankly, comments like your rhetorical musing about whether those of us who support humane alternatives would refuse medical treatment derived from dissections always remind me a bit of the folks who wanted to know how the U.S. economy could continue to function without slavery. Just because some practice may have provided some benefit at some time doesn't make it okay to continue it even if it's ethically unsupportable.

 

And, for the record, it is my understanding that most dissection work on human cadavers is performed on people who already died. As soon as you can show me some evidence that human beings are being rounded up on the streets and "euthanized" specifically so that their bodies can be sold to high schools, I'll be happy to voice my opposition to that, too.

[Heather in VA]

Well Jenny, this person isn't talking about dissection choice. She is talking about no one doing it even if they want to. Don't do them - that's your choice. But don't tell me that I have to think they are evil. That's my right - at least for now this country allows me to think for myself.

 

As far as the slavery dig... I'm sorry but I find it beyond offensive that you would even put those in the same catagory. I guess you really do live in a different world if you consider dissecting a frog on par with inslaving human beings. But that just makes my point from before. Typically animal "rights" activists want more rights for animals than humans.

 

Feel free to respond but I'm done with this conversation.

 

Heather

[anissarobert]

We are vegetarians, we don't wear leather, and we are not doing dissections for biology this year. (We are doing diagrams, books and videos to learn the same information.)

 

However, even I think this is just the most recent silly PETA stunt. My dd and I were discussing it this morning when I saw it in the news. She has been a vegetarian since birth, and at almost 15 she said the girl was crazy. I don't believe that stunts like this really help to promote the right of animals.

[RoughCollie]

My boys will be doing a lot of dissections this year. I see nothing wrong with it and I think they will learn a lot.

 

As far as the girl changing her name goes, I figure if it becomes a problem, she can always go to court to change it to another name.

 

RC

[Jenny in Florida]

Typically animal "rights" activists want more rights for animals than humans.

 

Feel free to respond but I'm done with this conversation.

 

Heather

 

Well, I know Heather says she won't be back, but I want to clarify my point to prevent anyone else from walking away with the wrong impression.

 

I do not want "more right" for animals than humans. In fact, I'm not even sure I want the same rights for them. I don't, for example, think my guinea pigs need the right to vote. All I want is for animals to be safe from having pain and suffering inflicted upon them in the name of human "education," convenience, hunger or fashion.

 

Just in case anyone cares . . .

[mrsdash]

QUOTE=Jenny in Florida;594003]Well, I know Heather says she won't be back, but I want to clarify my point to prevent anyone else from walking away with the wrong impression.

 

I do not want "more right" for animals than humans. In fact, I'm not even sure I want the same rights for them. I don't, for example, think my guinea pigs need the right to vote. All I want is for animals to be safe from having pain and suffering inflicted upon them in the name of human "education," convenience, hunger or fashion.

 

Just in case anyone cares . . .

 

 

I care. I could not agree more. We are a vegetarian/vegan/no fur/no leather and no vivisection family. No bio labs here.

[Nan in Mass]

We did natural history and kept our plants and animals whole. My mother's college dissection stories are horrendous. I'm glad this country has gotten to the point where they are looking at alternatives. This is something that gives me hope that the human race might be progressing a bit. I refused to take freshman bio because of this. (Later I took it as a senior, when my school had stopped doing dissections.) The weird part is that I couldn't have told you why at the time. I just said it was yukky and I didn't want to know how living things worked. My biologist mother was insisting but my squeamish engineer father stepped in and said of course I didn't have to take it. It wasn't until senior year that I was able to articulate my problem and redefine "yukky" as "horrified moral objections". "I just don't want to" isn't usually a sufficient reason for not doing things, but remembering this issue, I'm trying to make allowances for my children's inability to tell me why they object to doing certain things. (Just saying all this in case someone else's child says they don't want to do dissections because they are yukky.)

-Nan

[anissarobert]

Jenny-I care, and I agree!

[Jenny in Florida]

I care. I could not agree more. We are a vegetarian/vegan/no fur/no leather and no vivisection family. No bio labs here.

 

Jenny-I care, and I agree!

 

Aw, thanks, both of you!

[HollyinNNV]

What is the consensus here regarding animal dissections in high school? Thanks!!

 

To answer your q

 

We do dissection. The co-op I organize does dissections when appropriate. It always seems to be more of a big deal leading up to it, than the actual dissection itself. Then students (even the ones who were unenthusiastic), generally find it interesting and valuable.

 

Frankly, because we did so many dissections in ele. & jr. hi, our high schoolers are going to do only 1 or 2.

 

If my dd goes into biology, I would not want her doing her first dissection as a college student.

 

Holly

Edited October 15, 2008 by HollyinNNV
spelling

[dirty ethel rackham]

It is my goal to have my kids do dissections. However, I will not be leading them - not because I am squeamish (maybe a little - don't want that frog in my kitchen when I am preparing dinner) but that I was never very good at them and I want them to have excellent instruction if they will do them. Why bother if they are not going to get something important out of the lesson. My oldest took a bio dissection class with a grad student at our local college. She was a fantastic instructor.

 

I believe that if you are going many types of biological sciences, they are critical. If not, then skip them - no biggie. I am all for the humane treatment of animals because I believe that is part and parcel of being good stewards of this planet. However, my definition of humane treatment will probably differ from a PETA advocate. We are not vegetarians (I wish I could but I am very unhealthy without animal protein), but we take care in where we get our meat and dairy, striving for organic - not factory farming.

 

Not all important biological lessons can be learned from cadavers or video simulations. First of all, cadavers are expensive (yes, I know people die every day, but not everyone donates their remains to science and there is the not so small matter of preserving the body) so schools want to make sure that students have some skill before giving them such a costly specimen to work on. Also, there are many biological sciences that are not about humans. Also, video simulations do not give the tactile sensations that may be necessary to get all the information available.

 

One of my friends is a vet (semi-retired). She has always encouraged her kids to dissect dead animals they find around their property. I would probably do that if 1 - I had the skill to direct them, and 2 - that I wasn't so afraid of their germs (West Nile and all that.) She doesn't want to let a good specimen go to waste.

 

Maybe my opinion on this isn't too popular here, but that is what I think. I have a son who wants to be a paleontologist. Comparative anatomy skills are tremendously important for this field.

[newbie]

Personally I think dissection in high school is frivolous, unless you are going to a science field.

 

This might seem radical, but we have plastic models for humans in high school, not cadavers. Why cant we have the same for animals.

 

I vote save the animals, look at videos and plastic. You get the jist.

[Beth in SW WA]

Thank you all for the feedback. I decided to buy a dissection kit for my kids to have an opportunity to learn on the real thing.