Math for a shut down learner

[ByGrace3]

My ds is 9 and working through MM 4A. He is more than halfway through, very strong in math, does a good bit mentally, but gets discouraged easily and completely shuts down. He struggles with anything "multistep" and while he does ok if I "hold his hand" through the process, I am at a point in my life and in our homeschool that for various reasons, I need him to be a bit more independent. I don't mind helping, I don't mind explaining, but the very thing I love about MM -- the incremental teaching -- has become a very big frustration with me for him. He is great at computation, has a natural inclination towards math concepts. When I read him the math word problems he is often quick to solve them, often before me. But I have to walk him through every step of them lately. And left on his own, there are tears and meltdowns.  I don't have 45 minutes every day to buddy math with him-- more than that-- I don't have the mental capacity and patience right now. I feel as though I am "doing it for him" with as much hand holding I often have to offer. "what's next?" "order of operations." "what does this mean?" I just need him to take a bit more responsibility in this area. 

 

I know it is not lack of effort because any type of computation he is quick and efficient. Copywork, he gets it done. His Veritas history-- no problem. He does assigned reading, piano practice, and handwriting on his own mostly. He really is diligent, and such a sweet kid, The tears and battle over math seem pointless. 

 

I remember grade 4 of MM being incredibly difficult for dd as well and I questioned switching her, but then didn't. However, I need to salvage the relationship here...I can't have tears and attitudes (his and mine!) every day--not over math. 

 

He is a little "ahead" so I am ok to even take a break and do something else for awhile and come back to MM...or switch to something spiral and concrete. I want to build his confidence here. 

[Pistachio mom]

Hi Friend,

 

It sounds like things are challenging for you right now.

 

Are  you introducing long division? or another more challenging process?  Are you introducing a more "abstract" kind of math where you might need to pull back and use a base ten set or some fraction tiles or another appropriate manipulative to help scaffold him up to the work to work through a few of the examples or as many as necessary.

 

For my oldest child, long division brought tears daily. But when we took a break from that concept and worked on something else for a while, it wasn't so hard the next time around. Honestly, 45 minutes a day for math is not that bad.

 

You might try putting your "prompts" on a note card and point to the step he needs without saying anything with words. And then sit with him silently while he works to help him through this stage. Another idea, is the time of day your work on math with him possible to adjust? Maybe first or earlier to get it out of the way?  Or plan a snack right afterwards to give him something to look forward to. Can you use an ipad app or website to review something in a fun way that will distract him from being upset partway through your math time? Maybe for a timed 5 minutes..... We use dot to dot to connect every time I can catch someone working diligently at my house. I pay $1 for completely filling up 50 dots which takes up about 2 - 3 weeks..... I mean this as encouraging - not punitive

 

Pictures, color, and manipulatives - even some that relate to food are helpful in my house.....I will pray that you are blessed with an idea that will be helpful. Many knowledgeable moms comment on these boards. I pray tomorrow is a better math day for your sweet son. 4th grade math does get a lot harder compared to grades 1 - 3, especially if someone knows "procedure" without a solid spacial understanding of place value.

 

If you can be more specific about the concepts that are frustrating your son right now, some of the moms can respond more specifically for suggestions.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Pistachio mom

[deerforest]

It sounds to me that he is very clearly stating that he is not ready to be learning math independently. At 9, I think that is quite normal. I admit that I do not hail from the same line of thinking that homeschooling means that we need to develop independent learners in elementary school. My goal is high school because DD and I are both social learners.

 

The sounds like your needs are in conflict with his. Can someone else take over his math teaching? A spouse? A tutor? An online class? Or, why not spend just 30 minutes working together. Shorter, more focused time would likely be more successful for you both.

 

Good luck in finding the right fit for you both!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My ds is 9 and working through MM 4A. He is more than halfway through, very strong in math, does a good bit mentally, but gets discouraged easily and completely shuts down. He struggles with anything "multistep" and while he does ok if I "hold his hand" through the process, I am at a point in my life and in our homeschool that for various reasons, I need him to be a bit more independent. I don't mind helping, I don't mind explaining, but the very thing I love about MM -- the incremental teaching -- has become a very big frustration with me for him. He is great at computation, has a natural inclination towards math concepts. When I read him the math word problems he is often quick to solve them, often before me. But I have to walk him through every step of them lately. And left on his own, there are tears and meltdowns.  I don't have 45 minutes every day to buddy math with him-- more than that-- I don't have the mental capacity and patience right now. I feel as though I am "doing it for him" with as much hand holding I often have to offer. "what's next?" "order of operations." "what does this mean?" I just need him to take a bit more responsibility in this area. 

 

I know it is not lack of effort because any type of computation he is quick and efficient. Copywork, he gets it done. His Veritas history-- no problem. He does assigned reading, piano practice, and handwriting on his own mostly. He really is diligent, and such a sweet kid, The tears and battle over math seem pointless. 

 

I remember grade 4 of MM being incredibly difficult for dd as well and I questioned switching her, but then didn't. However, I need to salvage the relationship here...I can't have tears and attitudes (his and mine!) every day--not over math. 

 

He is a little "ahead" so I am ok to even take a break and do something else for awhile and come back to MM...or switch to something spiral and concrete. I want to build his confidence here. 

 

I would definitely switch programs.

 

But I would also find that 45 minutes! Or see if someone else in the house is available to teach him for math, as a pp suggested.

 

You have a little boy who is a very good student and who wants to like math. He still needs you to help him, and to be there while he works through his math lessons.

 

The fact that you want him to be more independent in math? That desire doesn't make him able to be more independent in math.

 

I hope this is not too blunt, because I don't know how else to say it. You're his teacher, and he obviously needs you to help him more, not less (at least with this subject), so it's on you to find the time to do it. Or change the division of labor in the household so someone else can take the time, if that's an option.

 

You will never regret taking the time to help him build a proper foundation in math. (And as he grows in confidence, ability, and maturity, he WILL become more independent! This isn't forever!)

 

You will never regret making his math lessons a joyful and effective time together.

 

[Arcadia]

He seems to have anxiety over math word problems. If you give him a bunch of highligters or gel pens to underline key words in word problems, would he find that easier?

 

I am not familiar with MM. My kids used SM. My youngest was confused by too many words and redundant info in word problems. Underlining helps him to focus.

[sweetpea3829]

I agree with a lot of what was said above...

 

One thing you might consider is Prodigy Math.  It's not a curriculum, but it is a huge incentive game-based practice program.  You can customize it, or let the game run him through a diagnostic.  It self-levels.

 

I use it to set spiral review assignments for my kids.  I just go down a list of topics, assign tasks off that list and send the kids on their merry little way.  They beg to play because the game is very very engaging.  

 

What this might do for your son is encourage him to work on the assignments on his own.  At first, only assign things you know he can do independently and then from time to time, throw in a few things that might stretch him a bit.  But tell him he's gotta work on it on his own.

 

Its free, though there is a paid option.  The paid version gives the player more in-game options, but doesn't otherwise change how the academic side works.  I do recommend the paid version, if you get in on a group buy.  We paid $15 per kid for a whole year of paid membership.  

 

It's a neat little game and our kids really enjoy it.  

[OneStepAtATime]

1. I agree with others, he is indicating he is not ready to be independent and he has hit an area where he may need a different approach, more time to mature, more scaffolding or possibly working on a different area of math for a bit to give him a break.

 

2. If this is a trigger subject for you then is there anyone else that can help him?

 

3. Maybe create a math reference notebook for him that includes typed out step by step instructions to refer to and key words and their meaning, etc.

 

4. Maybe switch gears entirely for a few weeks to help you both detox. Maybe something like CTC math. It has several targeted lessons for word problems and a student has access to all levels of math from kinder through calculus so if one group of lessons is too hard the student can try a lower level then keep moving forward on that one topic until they reach the level they need to be at. Usually on sale through Homeschool Buyer's co-op.

Edited August 23, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[Ariston]

I have a 12 year old who still needs me to be with him basically through his whole math lesson, so I understand your frustration.  I have been at that point where I felt like I needed him to be more independent but have eventually realized that this is just not realistic for him.  However during those times when I am struggling I've had him take a break and do some things that are independent.  We've used xtramath (if he still needs to improve his speed with math facts.)  Prodigy was also a hit (I actually am trying to get a group buy going right now....PM me if you're interested.)  He has a free trial to Dreambox right now and I think I am going to bite the bullet and pay for that because he enjoys it and its nice to have some things he CAN do independently.  Last year we had a period where he watched Khan videos.  (We also tried Life of Fred last year because it is independent but it was a big flop.)

 

This year I am at a point where I can spend much less time sitting with the older kids and doing school with them, but I've come to realize that math with my son is one subject that he will probably never be able to do independently....at least not for the foreseeable future.  I do try to stretch out the independent parts of the work (i.e. sit with him for 15 minutes and then walk away while he works on a few problems.) But really the amount he is capable of doing independently is so minimal its barely worth it.

 

I think in prior years I was always trying to make him more and more independent thinking that was the goal.  Last year though he was at the point where it really bothered HIM that he could not sit and concentrate on his work by himself.  I could see that if he were able to do it, he would be doing it!  So then I just kind of realized that independence was not my goal....having him progress in math was my goal.  So now I've just resigned myself to the fact that I'll be spending an hour with him doing math probably until he's 18 :)

 

I hope you find something that works for you in the short term as you get through this frustrating period, and in the long term!

 

[MomatHWTK]

Splash Math is fun. 

[RootAnn]

How about giving him a book on math problem solving strategies? I can't remember which one it was, but one of the Zaccaro books focused on a different strategy each chapter. Then, there were problems at the end of each chapter. The first set was pretty easy. The second set was harder. Etc. Becoming a Problem Solving Genius

Edited August 23, 2016 by RootAnn

[fralala]

You've gotten great advice, but I just wanted to say I thought when I read your question that you had come up with a wonderful solution on your own.

 

Yes, it is okay to take a break.

Absolutely.

 

Take a break to build his confidence and to build your relationship. I don't do MM, but I have taken breaks from SM to practice concepts from the last book that I know my child has mastered. My concern with math is not falling behind-- whatever that means-- but moving so fast that a child suddenly feels "bad at math" and doesn't have the base to be able to move forward with confidence.

 

If you can't approach your son's math impasses with the attitude of, "Isn't it FUN to solve challenging puzzles? What should we do next? Okay, what does it say here?" (The Enthusiastic Coach) I think it is a wonderful idea to rewind a bit to a place where he is confident and where you can get a break! And also to remind him, "Whoa! This used to be very challenging and frustrating for you, but you practiced and worked at it, and now you're breezing through these problems. You've been working really hard at math."

 

I would rather be a little behind with math but be able to approach it with the right attitude. Slow and steady and all that (if there is indeed a race at all). And it sounds like your son is not actually even going to be falling behind!

 

And if you don't take a break outright, you could just slow down as mentioned previously. If you can only sit with him for 10 minutes a day to do math right now, do that. Do what you can do while being encouraging and not getting frustrated. (And oh, I know the frustration, trust me. I have had those days when I take my pen and, in response to a question whose answer seems obvious and is right in front of my child's nose, drawn thirty-seven arrows pointing at the answer and then circled it and underlined it fifteen times and then put a few stars all around it all for good measure, which is pretty cathartic actually.)

Edited August 23, 2016 by fralala

[EKS]

It sounds like he is working at the edge of his instructional level in math right now, at least when it comes to word problems.  This is a good thing!  It means he is learning something, and he is being challenged.  It also means that right now he needs that scaffolding that you are providing.  In a few months he probably won't.

 

In order for most kids (especially younger kids) to work independently, you need to make the work easier--and sometimes a lot easier.  If you do this, he may be able to work independently, and he may enjoy the easier work for a time, but eventually he may also become bored.  Also, you won't be showing him how to tackle difficult problems (which is what you are doing with your scaffolding) nor will he be learning this on his own because none of the problems will be difficult. 

 

The time you spend working on math with you son is time well spent.  I'd do everything possible to be able to give him that time.