Meaning of life and existential depression (cross posted)

[Reflections]

So two weeks or so ago I read this article:  http://sengifted.org/archives/articles/existential-depression-in-gifted-individual

 

And like so much that happens in my life, it was timely.  About a week or so later my 11yo son started asking me about the meaning of life.  Was "this" all there was?  What is my purpose? Do I have a purpose?  What do I think happens when we die?  What about nuclear weapons?  What about war?  How do we work towards peace if we even have these weapons?  How do I as a kid affect enough change and give meaning in my life?  Is my meaning controlled by a higher power?

 

And if those questions weren't tough enough, my 6yo son, separately came to me has been asking me what death means? What is his purpose?  How should he live his life?  How did I choose to live mine?

 

I've talked to them about it from my own personal experience.  I've shared how I've struggled.  What I've read. How I'm still struggling to find answers.  How I find contentment and peace in my life without having all the answers.

 

But, I realized last night that he's not only asking about these things, that he's fighting off anxiety from it.  I don't think he's depressed about it.  None of those signs are there.

 

Have you or your children struggled with this?  What did you say? What did you read or watch that resonated with you? That helped you?  

 

[Katy]

We answer those questions with religion.  Not sure if that's of any help if you're agnostic or atheist though.

 

Perhaps the answer could be a discussion of religion,  "Some people think the only purpose is to have as many babies as possible, and that your consciousness dies when your brain does.  Other people think the purpose of life is to know and enjoy God, and that you have a spirit that goes to heaven or hell after you die.  What do you think?"

[Joshin]

As someone that suffers from this, I only have one answer. If you are seeing signs of anxiety or actual depression, please seek a therapist or counselor for your child. There is no one size fits all answer to existential depression and anxiety, because the root cause and internal belief structure of each sufferer is so different. I can go years now with meaning and purpose, and then a series of events can shake me to the core and I need my anxiety medication again. Now that I have a greater knowledge of science and the universe, and can see the big "picture," I'm fairly content with the small part I play in the game of life, and the even smaller part life plays in everything else. But it has taken me 40 years to get to this place.

[Bluegoat]

I take some of my answers with kids from my religious tradition, though I also try and give somewhat open ended answers or show ways of thinking about these kinds of questions.

 

I think six is a common age for questions about death, and also some anxiety about it - I think two of my three children had that experience.  I just kept answering their questions as best I could, and in some instances I chose to give the answers that were more reassuring, even if they weren't the whole story.

 

Pre-teens are oftten trying to think about such things in more rational ways, and Ithink it's actually important to go somewhere with it, give them real places to look.  Kids who come up with nothing, no way to understand meaning, during this period, seem very vulnerable to me as they become young adults.

[Reflections]

As someone that suffers from this, I only have one answer. If you are seeing signs of anxiety or actual depression, please seek a therapist or counselor for your child. There is no one size fits all answer to existential depression and anxiety, because the root cause and internal belief structure of each sufferer is so different. I can go years now with meaning and purpose, and then a series of events can shake me to the core and I need my anxiety medication again. Now that I have a greater knowledge of science and the universe, and can see the big "picture," I'm fairly content with the small part I play in the game of life, and the even smaller part life plays in everything else. But it has taken me 40 years to get to this place.

 

This is what has been true for me in my life.  And I'm thinking that my son will walk the same path.  My mother couldn't help me and I stopped asking her or anyone else.  

 

Anecdotal evidence of therapists in my surrounding area has me thinking that right now, therapy is not appropriate. There is one in a larger city some 6 hours away, but it's not that feasible. Again, I'm seeing signs of anxiety, but I don't think that it's tripped into depression yet.  

 

More information helped me, but it didn't come until later (30s).  I was hoping that were some books or other resources out there now that might help him know he's not alone in this struggle and what others his age are doing in their lives.

[Reflections]

I take some of my answers with kids from my religious tradition, though I also try and give somewhat open ended answers or show ways of thinking about these kinds of questions.

 

I think six is a common age for questions about death, and also some anxiety about it - I think two of my three children had that experience.  I just kept answering their questions as best I could, and in some instances I chose to give the answers that were more reassuring, even if they weren't the whole story.

 

Pre-teens are oftten trying to think about such things in more rational ways, and Ithink it's actually important to go somewhere with it, give them real places to look.  Kids who come up with nothing, no way to understand meaning, during this period, seem very vulnerable to me as they become young adults.

 

Precisely, especially the bolded is what I'm looking for.  I'm just not sure where to start.

 

(for the record, we are agnostic. And I've discussed with him (11yo) other religious views. And I've discussed what I think and feel)

[luuknam]

I think some CBT wrt cognitive distortions can be useful. You don't necessarily have to go to a therapist if there's no anxiety disorder/depression, but learning about the possible cognitive distortions and how to counter them when you catch them in your own thinking would be something you could explore with an 11yo or teen (probably not quite as useful with most 6yos). Stuff like all-or-nothing thinking - like "either I rescue the entire world or my life is useless"... it doesn't work that way. Your library might have "Feeling Good" by David Burns, which has a list of cognitive distortions and examples of how to counter them.

[TranquilMind]

So two weeks or so ago I read this article:  http://sengifted.org/archives/articles/existential-depression-in-gifted-individual

 

And like so much that happens in my life, it was timely.  About a week or so later my 11yo son started asking me about the meaning of life.  Was "this" all there was?  What is my purpose? Do I have a purpose?  What do I think happens when we die?  What about nuclear weapons?  What about war?  How do we work towards peace if we even have these weapons?  How do I as a kid affect enough change and give meaning in my life?  Is my meaning controlled by a higher power?

 

And if those questions weren't tough enough, my 6yo son, separately came to me has been asking me what death means? What is his purpose?  How should he live his life?  How did I choose to live mine?

 

I've talked to them about it from my own personal experience.  I've shared how I've struggled.  What I've read. How I'm still struggling to find answers.  How I find contentment and peace in my life without having all the answers.

 

But, I realized last night that he's not only asking about these things, that he's fighting off anxiety from it.  I don't think he's depressed about it.  None of those signs are there.

 

Have you or your children struggled with this?  What did you say? What did you read or watch that resonated with you? That helped you?  

One of my kids tends to be this way.  This one is deeply introspective and has always been prone to pondering the meaning of life quite often.   This one also says some oddly adult things and always has, even from a young child, almost as if I was being given advice. 

 

It started to go negative when there was illness from an undetermined cause for several months.  Now that that is gone (praise the Lord), while this child remains introspective, it doesn't go to that "Well, we are all going to die anyway" place.   That was no fun! 

 

I handle it the only way I know how; lots of prayer and speaking scripture to this child.  It helps us.  "God did not give you a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, of love, and of a sound mind."  Stuff like that.   So YMMV. 

 

(I don't know if you wanted to hear only from people whose kids were diagnosed with depression (not the case here), but just thought I would add my experience, which I believe was much entwined with the physical illness this one was battling at the time.)

Edited August 11, 2016 by TranquilMind

[Bluegoat]

Precisely, especially the bolded is what I'm looking for.  I'm just not sure where to start.

 

(for the record, we are agnostic. And I've discussed with him (11yo) other religious views. And I've discussed what I think and feel)

 

I think I would try and frame it in terms of giving a language to talk about meaning, that will underly all kinds of thinking about those questions.

 

  You may have a twofold difficulty in being agnotic and living in the 21st century.  A major cultural strain since WWI has said that perhaps there is no meaning, or at least not one we can really grasp or talk about.  And that has affected pop culture and even philosophy to some extent, and the common language we have to talk about those ideas.  Religions tend to have a lot of vocabulary and images that are directed specifically toward talking about meaning, often in quite a precise way, and they are fairly accessible to various age groups, education levels, and so on.

 

Off the top of my head, removing that possibility, it leaves philosophy, and the arts.  Philosophy might not be the best choice at that age, but the arts could be very helpful - looking at these questions through great art and literature will give a vocabulary and also some insight into how others have answered these kinds of questions.

[gardenmom5]

My religious beliefs answer those questions.

 

My father died when I was 12 - so I did much pondering on those things, and was  very unsatisfied with my mother's answers (e.g. when you're dead your dead.) and I went in search.  That was what led me to the religion I joined.   I've learned much much more since then, and had many experiences which have supported those teachings.

 

I've been teaching what are the answers to these questions  to my children since they were young.  dudeling can even act like he's not paying attention. at. all.  but he will ask far more penetrating questions than most kids his age - 'cause he really is paying attention.

[Faithr]

I do think everyone is entitled to their own existential crisis at whatever age!  I mean I think it is good to question!  The unexamined life is not worth living and all that.  I think kids will need to work through this stuff.  It is part of the human condition.  So maybe he can take comfort in numbers.  Everybody comes to a point where they have decide if the meaning in life is real.  I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he is clinically depressed or anything (and I have a kid who suffers clinical depression!).  All my kids have at some point had to grapple with this.  We are religious, but I was agnostic for a long time until I decided the existential materialism was bullcrap.   Anyway, I don't want to argue that with anybody.  This isn't the place.  People come to their own conclusions,  but I was thinking that maybe reading something like Sophie's World which traces the history of philosophy in a novel form might get him thinking about things from different perspectives.  My kids like to have deep meaty discussions about this sort of thing.  He might want to listen to an audio of a scientist talking about why he went from atheist to Christian, like Dr. Francis Collins of the Human Genome Project.  Or maybe read books by Dr. Oliver Sacks, who was an atheist (I think) but who was so in love with life and delighted so in its quirks and mysteries, that his books are also uplifting.  I would suggest reading a book or two together would be good.  I would welcome discussion.  My answer to anything is to find a book to help us explore together.  I know he's only 11, so you'd have to be there to help through the heavier stuff.

[mamiof5]

I have also found answers in religion, and thank goodness that has been enough for me. Our kids are getting a good, solid religion base since very young, so, so far none of them have struggled with this. Of course they have questions, but they are content with the answers we give them.

 

I think it's not uncommon for kids to think about stuff like this. And as they grow, sadly they are more aware of war, death, shootings etc... I am sure that raises a lot of concerns.

 

I know not everyone believes in God, but our faith is truly what gets us through.

 

Good luck! Hope you can figure out what approach works best for you and your family.

[Joshin]

This isn't meant to offend those with a religious world view, but true existential depression goes much deeper than finding religion. While this can help certain people deal with an existential crisis, it just adds a different facet to depression. Instead of what is the meaning of it all, the questions become things like "why has God abandoned me/us?" In other words, it becomes both a religious crisis and ex. depression. I have been in support group settings and seen this first hand.

 

One thing that may help, from a more agnostic POV, is to explore Zen Buddhism together. There are plenty of resources aimed at preteens and teens that can be fitting. I only mention Zen because many of the resources are relatively divorced from religious dogma, but the basic philosophy applies over many belief systems and is relatively accessible. The philosophy and beliefs were also purposefully crafted for dealing with existential, meaning of it all, crises.

[mamiof5]

This isn't meant to offend those with a religious world view, but true existential depression goes much deeper than finding religion. While this can help certain people deal with an existential crisis, it just adds a different facet to depression. Instead of what is the meaning of it all, the questions become things like "why has God abandoned me/us?" In other words, it becomes both a religious crisis and ex. depression. I have been in support group settings and seen this first hand.

 

I think this really varies, depending on the individual, circumstances etc. Yes, there is no doubt that there are many different kinds of depression, but, there are also many ways to deal with it. What works for some folks doesn't work for others, and viceversa.

 

We can't generalize that existential depression goes farther or deeper than finding God or not. For many, God is our strength, He is our rock, He sees us through it all, and there's NOTHING, absolutely nothing deeper than Him.

 

It really varies... different approaches work for different folks.

[Faithr]

I am not offended but I think you might misunderstand what is meant by finding religion (of the Christian variety, I can't speak to other faiths).  Jesus himself cried "My God, my God why have you abandoned me?"  Ever read the book of Job?  The phrase 'the dark night of the soul' was coined by St. John of the Cross when he was going through an existential crisis.  People like Mother Teresa experienced decades of spiritual dryness, feeling alienated from God.  The thing about believing in something greater than yourself, universal principles that make life a cogent enterprise, is that you have guardrails to keep you from going off the road in times of turmoil and crises.  There is something outside yourself that makes sense of things, it isn't about how you are feeling at that moment or what your personal perception is.  I know about depression and one thing it does is shrink one's world so that everything gets distorted.  And this is quantifiable.  They have done studies that say that people who practice their faith regularly, who pray or mediate have fewer bouts of depression and their depressed episodes tend to be shorter.  My sister was grappling with terrible depression and her secular psychologist recommend prayer or meditation to her if she happened to be religious. At the time she wasn't but she began to explore and read and pray again, after decades.  It truly helped her. So while religious people can suffer from depression (I don't think there is any inoculation against it because of its complexities), a religious point of view can definitely help.

[bookbard]

I agree with a number of the above posts - questioning and thinking about these big issues is a good thing, and questions should be honoured and not necessarily answered. Humans have been wondering about such things for millenia, so expecting to have a quick easy answer is a bit ridiculous!

Sophie's World is a good one, I wonder though if eleven is too young - there's another one by the same author for younger readers, "hello, is anyone here" or something like that - it is all about honouring questions. The author is Jostein Gaarder. He has other great books such as The Orange Girl and The Solitaire mystery which all touch on the meaning of life and how big space is and so on, but unless your 11 yr old is advanced you might want to save them till the teens. The Orange Girl in particular deals with death, it's very good. 

I think it's interesting exploring how different peoples in different times have found meaning - eg the Vikings and Anglo-Saxons felt that your reputation and the memory of your deeds was your shot at immortality, others feel that Art is Long, Life is Short, and then there's the cycle of life, going back to be one with the land. 

I don't know your kids or their personalities - I think how people deal with this is so individual. I have certainly had periods of deep existential angst but I tend to be a curious optimist who is always waiting for something interesting and new to happen, so I find it hard to go with 'we're all doomed!' the way I know others do. My kids have dealt with the idea of death and going back to be part of the universe of molecules without any concerns, whether this continues I guess we will see. 

 

 

[MotherGoose]

I'm a Christian. Please know I'm not trying to push religion in you, but I'm just sharing my thoughts. I've had existential crises, and so have my children. You are agnostic, which means, I believe, that you aren't sure whether or not there is a God, or that you believe God may have set things in motion but is now hands off. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But perhaps these crises are God's way of letting you know He's here and is able to help? The solution to MY existential crises, and those of my children, so far, has been our faith. For a time I was away from religion and my career goals of helping others (social work) filled that need partially. Maybe it's time to consider reading about faith/the Bible/ etc. I have been on a varied journey for the past 25 years or so to get where I am now. I offer no judgement to you, only trying to support you in figuring this out.

[MotherGoose]

Btw that is a great article. I've been struggling with those issues anew this week. As in is being a mommy and particularly a homeschooling mommy all there is? And I love the poem. I believe I had to memorize it in high school. But I've prayed to God on many occasions to let me know if this homeschooling thing is what He wants me to do. So far He's said yes, continue.

[Rosie_0801]

Dd hasn't asked these questions but I guess I have sort of preempted them by talking about self actualisation related things. They seem to appeal to her.