Is It "Cheating" or Legitimate to Break This English Class into Two Credits

[Valley Girl]

I've looked through the pinned post on credits and have seen some advice on other threads that suggests it might be acceptable to break an English class into two credits--one for literature and one for composition. Here's my dilemma:

 

We're doing vocabulary, grammar review, literature, and a writing program. Just looking at what I'm estimating the class hours to be, we'll be significantly over 120 for each. For instance, I'm thinking that vocabulary and the literature study alone will be about 131 hours of scheduled class time NOT including homework. The class will involve writing responses to the literature as well as some original pieces.

 

The writing program plus grammar review comes out to about 101 hours of scheduled class time. DS will be writing a research paper as part of the class. Again, the total does NOT count homework.

 

I know some days we might go longer, others a bit less.

 

But I'm thinking that's an awful lot of work to only be worth a single credit. So I'm wondering if it's legitimate to break that out as a literature class for the English requirement with a separate composition class for an elective. Writing is a skill area DS needs to work on, so I don't want to skimp on it.

 

What say the experts who have BTDT?

[J-rap]

I did split off into a separate Literature class.  So, we had four years of English, and then one year of Literature.  The Literature was actually a compilation of all four years of literature and related projects that we had done.  I'm sure we did enough to record two years of Literature on transcripts, but I decided to only list it as one year.

[theelfqueen]

I haven't been there done that but I'm planning on 1.5 credits this year as we're doing a much heavier composition year and I know we're going to be spending a LOT of extra time beyond a regular English credit.

 

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[JanetC]

I think it's legitimate to give credit where credit is due. It can look like cheating if it is not clear from your course descriptions that the course was more than a standard high school credit.

 

The other question to ask yourself is: Is it wise to spend so many hours per week on English for your particular student and their goals? If you bought too much English curriculum and are making your child do every single chapter to get your money's worth, that's not a good reason to crowd out time for the rest of the usual high school credits and extra curriculars.

[Valley Girl]

I think it's legitimate to give credit where credit is due. It can look like cheating if it is not clear from your course descriptions that the course was more than a standard high school credit.

 

The other question to ask yourself is: Is it wise to spend so many hours per week on English for your particular student and their goals? If you bought too much English curriculum and are making your child do every single chapter to get your money's worth, that's not a good reason to crowd out time for the rest of the usual high school credits and extra curriculars.

 

 

As far as his goals, unfortunately, he doesn't really have any at this point. I'm guessing that will change as we go on.

I do understand what you're saying. It's not a case of buying too much curriculum. I'm trying to make sure that I cover essentially what's covered in the state standards for that grade as far as literature is concerned. I'm having to pick and choose carefully so as not to overwhelm him. Even so, in covering the various genres, with reading/discussion/analysis plus some writing, that's still a lot of material.

 

However, my DS also needs more concentrated focus on writing and the how-to's. We did a lot of work last year on that, but I still don't feel he's ready to tackle most high school writing on his own and do it well. I need to make sure he's got that solid foundation for benefit of all his classes. I'm just concerned that I'm asking him to do what would essentially be a separate writing course in terms of time and commitment. And if that's the case, it seems he should get the credit for that as an elective. But I don't want to make assumptions or cause him an issue come transcript time.

 

I don't forsee needing to do that in 10-12th grades. For those, I'm thinking a regular English class with lit (American/British/whatever) plus the a lit-related writing component should be fine.

 

Anyway, that's why I'm stuck.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Reluctant Homeschooler

[Kendall]

I regularly do 1.5 credits.  1 for English and .5 for literature ( we do literature for the full year but only for about half the amount of time per day as the other courses)

 

Sometimes, but not always, a literature writing project gets moved to English time and we start another book during literature time.  

 

[MerryAtHope]

For me, it might depend on how much homework there was. I like something like an English class to really be on the upper end of credit hours (I tend to do 150-180 hours for core academic classes, and only use 120 as a guideline for electives). An English class might even be 200 or so with reading (and honestly, I read aloud to my teens as well, and never added that time on--that's actually when we did a lot of our literature discussions). 

 

Anyway...from your description, I'd say maybe, but it sounds closer to either one over-full credit, or 1.5 credits (you mentioned 232 hours estimated plus homework--for us, I'd want 300-360 hours for 2 full credits). I do wonder if any of the materials could be used for more than a year though--ie, try to focus on lit or vocab for about 30-45 minutes per day, and grammar/composition for about 30 minutes--and just see how far you get. My kids always had plenty to get done with other academic classes though, so spending 2 hours a day on English would have been pretty taxing here--but maybe that would work well for you. I'd just weigh that out.

 

HTH some!

[JanetC]

Are you in a state or in a program where you actually have to cover the state standard curriculum?

 

If he is good at English and will enjoy all that reading, discussion, analysis, writing, etc., that's one thing. Spending lots of time on a weak subject at the expense of subjects he's better at and would enjoy more can be demotivating for both of you.

 

You definitely need to do one English credit every year, but you don't necessarily need to do 1.5 or 2 credits.

[Chrysalis Academy]

It's impossible to fit all of Englishy type stuff into a single credit if you have a kid who enjoys this stuff, or if you have a kid who needs focused work on grammar, vocab, composition, etc.  But I think there are a lot of creative ways to package up your credits.  We'll be packaging some of our Lit up with our History credit, some with a Theater Arts elective.  Some of the writing instruction may get packaged with a different Creative Writing credit.  There are lots of ways to do it, but I do think it's important that credits be based on something concrete, whether it's time spent, material covered, or what have you. I wouldn't give two credits for English unless we were spending over 300 hours on it.

 

But in your situation, it seems reasonable to do at least an English credit that is lit-focused plus 1/2 credit for Composition/Rhetoric.    

[Julie of KY]

I think you should give credit when it is due.

 

I also tend to compare my English course to what students might do in another English course and only give one credit if it is similar to a single English course. If you obviously went beyond a full course, then give the credit for more. I also tend to think that English is often on the high side of hours for one credit.

 

In my case, I might take a Center for Literature course (1 credit on their website) plus 2 Brave Writer classes (1/4 credit each) and add some of my own stuff and call it all one English credit.

[Valley Girl]

Are you in a state or in a program where you actually have to cover the state standard curriculum?

 

If he is good at English and will enjoy all that reading, discussion, analysis, writing, etc., that's one thing. Spending lots of time on a weak subject at the expense of subjects he's better at and would enjoy more can be demotivating for both of you.

 

You definitely need to do one English credit every year, but you don't necessarily need to do 1.5 or 2 credits.

 

We don't have to cover the state curriculum. I opted to because I want to make sure he has similar exposure to material as the students against whom he'll be competing for college slots. Plus, I didn't have ideas for anything better or a good reason for not using it as a guide.

 

To your other point, I think he is pretty good as discussion/analysis, but I wouldn't say he likes it. Quite frankly, despite my having done virtual backflips in trying to engage him on ANY subject, he's just not that into school, period. There are some special needs in the picture, and we're at the point where I'm just telling him he has to do a subject in order to get his diploma and have the college option open to him. I wish things were different in that regard, but they're not. Perhaps with a bit more maturity that will improve. I'd love to be able to feed his interests. I do appreciate the back-and-forth. It's helping me think things through.

 

[Valley Girl]

I haven't responded to everybody, but I'm reading everything and appreciate all the suggestions. You're greatly helping me to sort this issue out. Thank you.

[Valley Girl]

Double post.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Reluctant Homeschooler

[RootAnn]

My kid will be taking a full credit outside composition class and a (listed on their site) full credit literature class (Center for Lit, like PP). I am adding spelling and will either call it 1.5 or 2 credits, depending on how many hours she ends up with.

[JanetC]

We don't have to cover the state curriculum. I opted to because I want to make sure he has similar exposure to material as the students against whom he'll be competing for college slots. Plus, I didn't have ideas for anything better or a good reason for not using it as a guide.

 

A good reason for not covering every genre in literature is to allow more time to work on writing skills as part of the English class.

Some good ways to find "better ideas" is to go through boards like this, email loops, curriculum catalogs, homeschool conventions, visit the library, amazon, etc. There are all sorts of ways to cover English and every other subject than just following state standards.

 

[MinivanMom]

Our local high school (one of those over-achieving, highly-ranked suburban schools) offers many elective English credits. It's very common for students to take Creative Writing, Shakespeare, African-American Literature, etc in addition to their standard English class. I would just be careful to label the elective English class with a specific title that distinguishes it from the regular required English credit. 

[RootAnn]

I am reminded that one of SWB's kids (as evidenced by a hand-written copy of his transcript shared as part of the WTMOnline Conference last summer) had > 8 LA credits. He got a Literature credit (World Lit or Am Lit, for example) and a Writing (Creative or Expository) credit every year.

 

I know Language Arts credits are usually heavier in terms of hours than some other credits, but at some point, that one credit line is crossed. You will have to make that determination on your own, eventually, since you are the guidance counselor & the one issuing the transcript. Good luck!