What % of the World is educated?

[Tabrett]

This is a spin off of my other thread about everybody going to college. I hear how bad our educational system all the time and I was just curious what % of people in the WORLD is educated.

Let's let the standard be equivalent to an 8th grade education.

 

So, what % of the World's adults has an 8th grade education or higher?

[tibbyl]

Problem is that 8th grade does not mean same level of achievement in all countries.

[Tabrett]

OK what % of adults in the world can read a novel (like Harry Potter), write a paragraph in their own language, add, subtract, multiply and divide 3 digit numbers, have a basic understanding of biology (knows things like virus' and bacterias are what causes a cold and not an evil spirit) and has some knowledge of world history (even if they have not been taught the truth)?

[Rosie_0801]

OK what % of adults in the world can read a novel (like Harry Potter), write a paragraph in their own language, add, subtract, multiply and divide 3 digit numbers, have a basic understanding of biology (knows things like virus' and bacterias are what causes a cold and not an evil spirit) and has some knowledge of world history (even if they have not been taught the truth)?

 

 

Wouldn't have a clue; but then you have to look and see if that sort of education is worthwhile. I don't imagine world history is useful to subsistance farmers or outback dwelling Aborigines. A standard education can destroy communities. So, while the answer to your question would be interesting, we can't automatically judge that it is a good or bad thing.

Rosie- who would be classed as being as thick as a brick by some, because she can't cook injera.

[Tabrett]

I'm really not trying to judge education as good, bad or useful. I'm just tired of hearing how bad the American educational system is when America educates ALL children regardless of sex, race or religion. Most adults in America can do the things listed. When you compare that to the world, is our educational system really that bad?

When we are told our educational system is bad, who are they comparing American too?

[Kay in Cal]

Okay Rosie, I have to ask... what is injera?

 

That makes me doubly thick right?

[Rosie_0801]

I'm really not trying to judge education as good, bad or useful. I'm just tired of hearing how bad the American educational system is when America educates ALL children regardless of sex, race or religion. Most adults in America can do the things listed. When you compare that to the world, is our educational system really that bad?

When we are told our educational system is bad, who are they comparing American too?

 

Well, there's educates and there's educates isn't there? Covering a topic v learning the topic. Stats I've read have put some of the Scandinavian countries as having a 100% literacy rate, which neither your nor my country have achieved.

I imagine the comparisons are against other industrialised countries. It would be pretty meaningless to compare with rural dwellers in third world countries, they are a different kettle of fish. I can't say I've made any comparisons between countries on standard education, but I can tell you that Deaf education in Denmark and Sweden beats the rest of us by a long shot.

 

BTW, injera is Ethiopian flatbread, like a fermented pancake. I believe it is traditionally made from teff, which, according to Michael Palin, tastes like a carseat cover. I've had it made from white wheat flour and it was great! My attempts to make it have been disgustingly messy though. The trick may be the type of pan you cook it in and methinks a teflon frying pan ain't it!

 

:)

Rosie

[Plucky]

What bothers me about these comparisons and is that America usually doesn't fare well statistically because here in America (and other countries) we try to educate ALL kids. I know that some countries like India get a lot of kudos about their educational system but they don't educate everyone. There are many kids that are underserved or just don't qualify under their system yet the statistics don't reflect that.

[Tabrett]

What bothers me about these comparisons and is that America usually doesn't fare well statistically because here in America (and other countries) we try to educate ALL kids. I know that some countries like India get a lot of kudos about their educational system but they don't educate everyone. There are many kids that are undeserved or just don't qualify under their system yet the statistics don't reflect that.

That is the point I'm trying to get at!!! If you take the top % in America and compare it to the top % in places like India and China. I have heard we are equal or better. Anyone know if this is true? If it is true then I think America is doing a pretty good job. Especially considering America is a large country.

Wouldn't comparing us to European states be more like comparing the individual states in America?

[Sputterduck]

Compared to quite a few other countries, America's students are not doing as well.

 

And no, comparing European countries to states in America doesn't make sense.

[Plucky]

Do you have a link? Also, do those statistics reveal an equal playing field of similar students. I homeschool for a reason but I do think that often these statistics are skewed. Many countries only educate their brightest and most promising students and leave out the rest.

[Tabrett]

Even in places like Sweden they only report stats on their upper level kids that are university tracked. In India it is illegal to educate entire people groups.

Wow! I didn't even think about groups like the Untouchables!!!! Could you imagine a group of people like the Untouchables existing in America? And we think racism and sexism is bad!

[Plucky]

Yes, that was the main group I thought about, the Dalits. I had no idea that Sweden was one of the countries that only reports their top students. I think more countries are like that than we realize.

[Peela]

I am pretty sure I have seen statistics where most of the world can't even read or write. So in that respect, all westernised countries are all more highly educated in the type of education we value, anyway. Maybe, as Rosie was saying, not all people are going to value this type of education. To a large extent us Westerners are so out of tune with the cycles of nature, with what plants appear when and all the little signs that are significant to more natural cultures who depend on them for their survival, I personally feel incredibly ignorant. And I think we are not just ignorant, we are incredibly patronising and look down on that type of knowledge as "less than" knowing Latin or our version ofhistory. Do we know our ancestors? Not usually. So we dont even know our family's history beyond grandparents or sometimes greatgrandparents, wheras native cultures have a sense of continuity with many generations of their past. I feel we as Westerners are extremely arrogant.

Having said that, I educate my kids in the "normal" way of the culture they are brought up in because its the culture they are growing up in. I think Australia is considered to have a fairly high standard of education, but if you lived here you would know that plenty of kids fall through the system, that some states are better than others, that the education system is in huge upheaval, that in the state where I live the teachers are in massive revolt against a system that has been rejected in other countries....its not a pretty picture and thats why I homeschool. Where they get those figures that compare countries, I just dont know, but they are probably jsut a snap shot at a particular moment, with particular kids, and not to be taken too seriously. The fact that America is a huge country means also that the standard is going to vary widely, but even in Australia, it varies widely. I have never been asked to put my kids in international testing, so it is obvioulsy only a selected group who are.

[Danestress]

I don't think anyone thinks the American educations system is bad compared to many third world, impoverished nations.

 

I think the observation you more often hear is that, compared to other industrialized nations, our educations system is weak.

 

If you play around with google, you will find a lot of studies, and I don't know how to always distinguish the good ones form the questionable. But it seems that most of them show the US lagging behind other industrialized nations in math and science.

 

While I understand your point, and while like you I really value living in a nation that is at least theoretically committed to educating every child regardless of race, religion, gender, socio-economic group etc, I don't think a comparison to the poor developing nations of the world is really fair. I want to see comparisons to other industrialized nations.

[Rosie_0801]

Achieving literacy in your native language is going to be hard if schooling isn't offered in that language. It's even harder if your native language doesn't have a written form! I guess this is one reason why Saturday School was set up here.

Rosie

Edited October 9, 2008 by Rosie_0801

[Plucky]

I don't think we're trying to compare to poor countries. We're trying to compare with other developed countries that skew their information.

[Rosie_0801]

Yes, but parts of Australia are on par with the third world. (I can't comment on the US.) Not everyone benefits from the wealth and not everyone would be able to make use of an education even if they had one.

Rosie

[Plucky]

You're right. I think that is one of the problems though with trying to decipher the educational system. There are gifted kids, average kids, LD kids, low IQ kids etc. In some countries only the top tier is counted.

 

And these statistics are often tossed around as proof that we need to spend more money or do set up ridiculous state mandated tests that prohibit some from ever receiving a diploma without special accomodations. It would just be nice if information considered facts were accurate. :)

[Tabrett]

I don't think we're trying to compare to poor countries. We're trying to compare with other developed countries that skew their information.

I'm not trying to say we are better or more elite than other countries. I'm just tired of being told how bad America's educational system has become.

I would really like to know how we honestly compare to other developed countries. I have a hard time believing that America is really that low if we compare the WHOLE country to other WHOLE countries. If countries like Sweden are only reporting on their college tracked students it is not a fair comparison. How do we compare to their whole country?

[cathmom]

I don't know about comparing us to other countries. What I do know is that I taught at a public charter high school last year and was constantly amazed by what these kids did not know.

[Tabrett]

I am pretty sure I have seen statistics where most of the world can't even read or write. So in that respect, all westernised countries are all more highly educated in the type of education we value, anyway. Maybe, as Rosie was saying, not all people are going to value this type of education. To a large extent us Westerners are so out of tune with the cycles of nature, with what plants appear when and all the little signs that are significant to more natural cultures who depend on them for their survival, I personally feel incredibly ignorant. And I think we are not just ignorant, we are incredibly patronizing and look down on that type of knowledge as "less than" knowing Latin or our version of history. Do we know our ancestors? Not usually. So we dint even know our family's history beyond grandparents or sometimes greatgrandparents, wheras native cultures have a sense of continuity with many generations of their past. I feel we as Westerners are extremely arrogant.

 

Beautifully said:hurray:. Americans have devalued any other type of education. Even technical schools are looked down upon. If Americans were to loose power for an extended amount if time we would find out how out of touch we really are with real survival. I too feel incredibly ignorant.

On the other hand, if I had a few good books on the subject, it wouldn't take me very long to figure out how to take care of myself in a more "natural" environment. I have the ability to learn about these cycles if necessary.

 

When talking about knowing our ancestors I feel a little handicapped. It really isn't possible for me to know ancestors in the same way some cultures do. My ancestors came from so many different places that I don't have a unity of a culture to learn or experience.

 

But your right, westerners are very arrogant. We think that our way is the only right way to be and tend to judge the world by our standards.

[Mom to Aly]

Even in places like Sweden they only report stats on their upper level kids that are university tracked. In India it is illegal to educate entire people groups.

 

Wow! I didn't even think about groups like the Untouchables!!!! Could you imagine a group of people like the Untouchables existing in America? And we think racism and sexism is bad!

 

Yes, that was the main group I thought about, the Dalits. I had no idea that Sweden was one of the countries that only reports their top students. I think more countries are like that than we realize.

 

 

 

WHOA!!! PEOPLE!!!! What century do you think we are living in????

 

What bothers me about these comparisons and is that America usually doesn't fare well statistically because here in America (and other countries) we try to educate ALL kids. I know that some countries like India get a lot of kudos about their educational system but they don't educate everyone. There are many kids that are underserved or just don't qualify under their system yet the statistics don't reflect that.

 

Since I am half-Indian, and you decided to pick on India as an example, I feel I have to answer this.

 

First of all, untouchables are not like what you think--the caste system is not like what you think!! First, it is gone--illegal!! And, guess what--we have the same thing here, but we are not as honest about it! We call it classes, and if you don't think it exists, have you ever been to a coming out party? A cotillion? (Yes, they go on!) A country club? I grew up with those! Middle class--upper middle class--upper class--lower middle class--white trash--etc.!! Caste system, diff name! And "untouchables", shock, go to school, can go to restaurants, be seen in public, can <gasp> speak!!! Get into the 21st century! Wow, I've been insulted here, but this goes beyond, people! Next you'll be telling me what my 9th grade social studies teacher told my class, that if you saw a cow on the streets of India you had to bend down and kiss the ground, no matter where you were! And he fought with me over it!

 

Now, for the education--India's 86th amendment to their constitution stated that all children, aged 6-14, had the "fundamental right and duty" to an elementary education. They are expected to make an amendment soon to include younger ages, including preschool, as well. As of the 2006-2007 school year they had 93% of children age 6-14 enrolled in school. By the end of this decade, they expect it to be 100%, which I believe is a good bit better, right now, than the US has achieved.

 

When you are talking about how well educated Indian students are--have you noticed that the Ivy Leagues are accepting more and more Indian students? When I applied to colleges, mostly Ivy League, at the age of 15, by the way, I was told not to put that I was Indian (and this was in 1980) because it would be a hindrance, they were so inundated with Indians who excelled in math, medicine, etc.

 

You want to hear about a better education? My father was a nuclear physicist, a quantum mechanist, had 2 phd's, and 3 master's, all in sciences, all from Trinity College in Cambridge, all of academic Fellowships. He was brought to this country on the request of Einstein to work with him. The new String Thereom is based on research my father did.

 

I started school at 4, started college at 15. I have 2 BA's & 2 MA's, did my phd coursework, but had a baby who died, and gave up on my thesis. I did all of it working full time and on academic scholarships and fellowships, at NYU and La Sorbonne in Paris. Would I say it was because I was Indian? No, but I was brought up very differently than Americans. I went to American schools, but I was made to do additional work--a ton, because academics was everything to my dad. Too much, I think, but that is what he made me do. I read all of Shakespeare, and analyzed it, at 9. I did Arthur Miller and Moliere at 10. Science and math I was years ahead in, more like the levels he did when he was young.

 

I grew up speaking 5 languages; language illiterate to my fam; my dad spoke 14 languages fluently, one of my uncles spoke 23, and was the top scholar of Sanskrit in the world. I now speak 7, and that is probably my limit. I've met very few Americans who speak more than 3, most only speak one, and many have no interest in speaking more than one. In India, even for those who are not educated, two to three is normal.

 

When I talk to my relatives in India or in England they think school is a joke here--the # of hours, the work--they have so many more hours, are so far ahead of students here. Math and science especially. I never had to work in math and got 800 on my SAT's, 800 on my GRE's in math and the logic part. That was what my friends here worked the hardest on, and did the worst on, but not my friends who were from Japan or Korea or China--I wonder why? And I noticed you guys criticizing their education systems, too. I think I'd rethink that.

 

Our system is failing, everyone knows it. Our literacy rate is diminishing, there are more and more problems keeping kids in school, getting them to go to college. Affording college is a huge prob now. I think instead of trying to find fault with everyone else's system, we should be looking at them and trying to see what they are doing right, don't you? And not trying to just make wild, uneducated guesses ourselves.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Mom to Aly

[Plucky]

We're not trying to find fault with other countries' systems. India does not educate all students equally. There is a caste system. The untouchables are still beaten to death and they do not realize the same rights as other castes.

 

I think India has an incredible educational system and are doing a great job for some students but there are many that are not receiving the same education. There are many countries that only report their top tier students. The statistics don't reflect accurate data. I don't think questioning it is a problem.

[Plucky]

Here's a link to Human Rights Watch about the lack of rights and education still for the Dalits.

 

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2007/02/13/india15303.htm

[Mom to Aly]

We're not trying to find fault with other countries' systems. India does not educate all students equally. There is a caste system. The untouchables are still beaten to death and they do not realize the same rights as other castes.

 

I think India has an incredible educational system and are doing a great job for some students but there are many that are not receiving the same education. There are many countries that only report their top tier students. The statistics don't reflect accurate data. I don't think questioning it is a problem.

 

 

Umm, how many times have you been to India? The caste system is illegal--there are still people how might follow it, in theory, mostly for marriage, but untouchables being beaten to death? Uh-uh!!!

 

And, as for different students receiving different levels of education--do you think it is all the same here? I didn't say it was there! We have private schools here, different schools in different areas get different amounts of money, teachers, etc. Education is not at all equal here. That is not AT ALL what was stated. ALL students have the right to an education in India, "untouchable" or not.

 

And I think you are trying to find fault with other country's systems to make our's look better--our's is flawed!! Plain and simple!! We know it, everyone admits it, it is a huge reason we so many of us are homeschooling, everyone tries to find a better way to work it--it is not a reason to pick on anyone else's system!

[Plucky]

Please see my link. http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2007/02/13/india15303.htm

 

I am not picking on any other countries educational system. We are analyzing the information and it's really hard to find accurate apples to apples data. Could you possibly not view this so emotionally?

[Susie in CA]

Well, I don't know anything about India....

 

Going back to the level and quality of education again I just want to state that what the kids are doing in High School here we did and finished by 8th grade where I grew up. This is not proven in any statistic (well, maybe it is) but it simply is my experience. Yes, imo the standard of education in the US is lower than the standard in many other countries. It could be raised quite a bit and that is one of the reasons why I homeschool.

 

Susie

[Mom to Aly]

Please see my link. http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2007/02/13/india15303.htm

 

I am not picking on any other countries educational system. We are analyzing the information and it's really hard to find accurate apples to apples data. Could you possibly not view this so emotionally?

 

I guess I got so emotional because I am so tired of people just thinking India is this backwards country of uneducated nothings--my father was the most brilliant, well educated man I've ever met. He had an IQ of 190, a mind you could not imagine, and was amazing, then to see someone say the things I saw about India, which is also an amazing country--wouldn't want to live there ever again, don't even want to go visit now (got spinal meningitis last time), but still love it--it is hard, you have to understand that, and I hardly ever see anything good about it.

 

OK, your article stunned me--the Caste System is illegal there, and, while I am from a very modern thinking fam, and we are the highest caste, which does make it easier, we never treated people like untouchables, we just weren't like that. We had servants that were "dalits" but we treated them like family, they had regular rooms in the house, reg clothes, they were fam, which made it so that some people wouldn't associate with us, but we didn't care. My fam lives in New Delhi, which does make it easier to be like that, in small villages it is very different, but I didn't honestly know things like that went on.

 

There is a lot of talk of things like that from other sources that I know are not true. From your source I'd believe it, but there is a huge scandal, something called the DFN (Dalit Freedom Network) that was created pretty much by the AICC (All India Christian Council), that has been trying to tell Dalits, and other low castes or poor people, that if they converted to Christianity they would be given a lot of money, a higher place in society, or taken to a richer country, given a new life, etc. It is well known in India, and they have been working hard to convert Indians for a long time, and to make the Indian government look bad, as well as Hinduism. That is the main thing I knew about Dalits.

 

But, under the change in the constitution, everyone goes to school, they do teach English in all schools, I am sure, and I have a cousin, who lives in a rich area, but commutes to teach in a poor area, and she has a lot of former-untouchable students. And she is teaching them English, and they are with the other students.

[Mom to Aly]

Well, I don't know anything about India....

 

Going back to the level and quality of education again I just want to state that what the kids are doing in High School here we did and finished by 8th grade where I grew up. This is not proven in any statistic (well, maybe it is) but it simply is my experience. Yes, imo the standard of education in the US is lower than the standard in many other countries. It could be raised quite a bit and that is one of the reasons why I homeschool.

 

Susie

 

You see, this is one of the things that most shocked me! I look at what kids are doing in school now, and I see the same thing! I spoke with some of the people in the district where my daughter would have gone to school when she was little, and asked why this was so, and they asked where I went to school, and I answered, NY. And they said, Well, that is a Regent's state. (when I was in school, only NY & CA took statewide, Regent's exams, where you had to achieve a certain level to pass--and that wasn't even a high level). I answered yes, and he said they weren't a Regent's state, they didn't have to achieve that level!

 

I have friend's whose kids are doing, as seniors in high school, what we did in jr. high!!

[Plucky]

I believe you. I think Indians are incredible people and they do have a great educational system. I hope you believe me. But I do think that there are people being underserved. Are there people being underserved here? You bet! All I am interested in finding out and I'm having a hard time of it, is how and what data is reported. Because some countries and I don't know that India is one (but just based on the number of underserved I wouldn't doubt it) may not be reporting all their data correctly. Every country wants their numbers to look good.

 

 

Anyway, I dont have a big interest in this thread anymore. I live in a great school district and yet I homeschool, so I guess that says it all. :)

[Mom to Aly]

I agree--and, actually, I know this is one of those countries that doesn't report everything--too complicated to explain, but we do try to keep lots out, too.

 

And I agree--we are all homeschooling for a reason--guess that says it all ;)

 

Nite!

[Sputterduck]

Your father had a higher IQ than Einstein? Where was he tested?

[Peela]

I have been to India 3 times and most people there speak better English than most Westerners I know. And Aly is right- most speak several languages, even the poor people. And there are lots of poor people- but they do go to school.

 

I did stay with a middle class family in Delhi who had an "untouchable" boy servant who lives with them full time- about age 9- I didn't really like how they treated him, he was virtually a slave, although that is of course illegal- I think the situation was illegal, but tolerated- however, he did go to school.

 

I think many people in Asia know they have to excel to do well, so much competition, and pressure to do well...but it doesn't answer the original question of comparing the U.S. to other "western" countries, but perhaps that's not such a relevant question after all...maybe we should be comparing western countries to Japan, Korea, India, and asking why are we not doing as well as them?

 

I have heard, but I dont want to stereotype because I am not really aware of all the facts, that many of these kids spend many hours a day at school, then after school doing drill classes- basically, they work very, very hard- so, they deserve the results. However, it's still not the way I would choose to live, or bring up my children. If they want to compete in the corporate westernised consumeristic world, fair enough, they have lived with lack, I understand the desire to lift out of poverty. But having lived with plenty, I know it's not what makes you happy, that's for sure, and I dont like what it does to the planet- and the 3rd world countries are selling their resources off at a terrific rate, and accepting obscene rates of pollution.

Its all a bit of a mess and hopefully before its too late people wake up. You cant eat money, as the American Indian said. I hope in future generations education is broader.

 

May I also say, i think it is changing, but when I was in the U.S. years ago I noticed how the news stations all reported a lot of local news but I would never have known what was going on in the rest of the world. The U.S. was very insular- 25 years ago, anyway- more so than Australia where we hear a lot of world news. The Well Trained Mind is of course quite an antidote to that way of thinking.

[TeacherZee]

Even in places like Sweden they only report stats on their upper level kids that are university tracked.

 

That is completely untrue. Swedish statistics show the amount of students who finish grade 9. It also shows who does not have complete grades from year 9. There is a discrepancy in those numbers consequently it does not just show the university tracked students. As a matter of fact very few students in Sweden are actually "university tracked" as more emphasis is put on vocational tracks.

 

According to the Swedish department of education 23.9% of students in 2007 did not get pass grades in all subjects needed to get a complete transcript at the end of year 9. Out of these 7% failed maths, 3.6% failed Swedish, 22.4% failed Swedish as a second language and 6.1% failed English.

 

Source: http://www.skolverket.se/sb/d/175/a/6395#paragraphAnchor0

 

Unfortunately all the links I can find are in Swedish but I can assure you that the statistics on attainment levels are NOT done simply on university track students as at the end of year 9 no one knows who the university track students are. At the end of year 12 you can find similar statistics, here they might be more skewed towards students with good grades as years 10-12 are not mandatory and students who cannot cope with high school may drop out. However many of them will be found in the statistics over the free adult education that is available for all those who want to up their grades from high school or add to them if they found that later in life they need something they didn't think they needed at 16.

[Jenny in Florida]

. . . check out this link:

 

http://www.100people.org/statistics_100stats.php

[JudyJudyJudy]

List of countries by literacy rate:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

[Jenny in Florida]

U.S. is in the lower half of developed nations in terms of college completion: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/07/education/07educ.html?ei=5090&en=0fc2ce935d107384&ex=1315281600&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

 

U.S. has a lower percentage of high school graduates than the Chech Republic, Korea, Norway and the Slavik Republic.

 

Compared with countries with advanced economies, U.S. 8th graders do not score at the top levels on any direct assessments of skills and knowledge.

 

The U.S. has higher percentages of 15 year olds in the lowest proficiency levels on assessments of skills and knowledge than do Finland, Korea, France and Ireland.

 

http://www.highereducation.org/reports/muint/exec_summary.shtml

 

The U.S. ranks about the middle in comparisons of math skills of fourth grade students in 25 participating countries. (They did do better in science, coming in about 6th.)

 

http://nces.ed.gov/timss/timss03tables.asp?Quest=1&Figure=1

 

As of 2006, a study comparing math and science literacy levels of 15 year olds from 57 countries found that the U.S. ranked right around the middle for science and lower than average for math:

 

http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/pisa2006highlights.asp

[Mom to Aly]

Your father had a higher IQ than Einstein? Where was he tested?

 

Yes, my father did, actually everyone in my family except one sister born with disabilities does, and her IQ is 145. He was tested in London, we were tested in NY. There are people who do have quite high IQ's in this world, although IQ means nothing to me--I mentioned it only because I wanted to show that people from India can be ultra intelligent--my dad was brilliant, beyond brilliant--he had a true photographic memory, as do I, as do my brother and sister.

 

My twin brother is schizophrenic, which often goes hand in hand with ultra intelligence, but he taught himself to play chess off of the back of a box of Raisin Bran when we were 7--when we were 8 he beat the NY state chess champion. He is a grand master, when he can play, and has been since he was 9.

 

IQ is ridiculous to me, though, because it is just potential--you can have a phenomenal IQ and be a homeless person; as I said, my brother has one, and has never been able to work. A high IQ is not always a great gift. It sometimes drives you crazy, makes you too aware. My father did work for NASA for years, he knew Oppenheimer, etc. I grew up listening to talk of nuclear weapons around the dinner table (my father was greatly against them, but we had a lot of people over that worked on them, or against them); I grew up obsessed with nuclear proliferation, had nightmares about it when I was 6, 7, 8... When kids were asking for writing to Santa, I was writing to the President... See what I mean? Ummm, I don't mean it drove me nuts, literally, but I don't forget things, like, ever (you should see me at Trivial Pursuit ;) ). And that can drive you nuts!

 

Anyway... My daughter is the same. She is 9, with a college level reading level, ultra bright--but I won't have her tested, I won't send her to college early (my dad wanted me to go earlier, my mom wouldn't let me). I want her to have the normal childhood I didn't have. She worries about global warming, about politics, etc, but not like I did. My dad held my IQ up to me as something I had to be aware of and live up to; he went to my teachers each year, told them my IQ, told them I had to have extra work, and they would give it to me, even though I was years ahead, and in honors classes. I'll never do that to her. I did in the beginning, but I realized I was being like him. She is a two to four years ahead on most things. But I won't give her a ton of work. She has plenty of time to learn; she only has one childhood. She is going to enjoy it. :D

Edited October 9, 2008 by Mom to Aly

[tibbyl]

Perhaps adult literacy rates would help you uncover information you are looking for since literacy is one desired outcome of education. Here are world countries ranked by adult literacy rate according to U.N. Human Development Index:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

 

There are 24 countries tied for 18th place, one of which is the U.S. All others are European countries with exception of Guyana, Japan, and S. Korea. Note the caveat that certain high income countries that no longer gather adult literacy statistics have been given a 99% rating, which no doubt explains the disproportionate number of countries vying for 18th position.

Edited October 10, 2008 by tibbyl